I'm currently building an NPC for a short campaign. While Master Craftsman allows the alchemist to qualify for certain crafting feats, this still leaves out key items (mainly Greater Potions and Rings). According to the developer (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2sf75?Alchemist-Spell-Knowledge-Discovery), the discovery Spell Knowledge grants a caster level and should, theoretically, allow an alchemist access to all crafting feats she qualifies for using Alchemist level as CL.
Is this interaction considered legal, per the wording and rules?
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Brew Greater Potion (Item Creation)Prerequisite(s): Brew Potion, Caster level 7th or higher
Benefit: You may now use the Brew Potion feat to create potions of spells of up to 5th level. The costs and creation times are otherwise the same as the Brew Potion feat.
Section 15: Copyright Notice
Undefeatable: The Collected Feats Sourcebook, Copyright 2009 - 2010, Louis Porter Jr. Design, Inc. Undefeated, Copyright 2011, Louis Porter Jr. Design, Inc.
Third party feat, so you need ot ask your GM.
Spell KnowledgeYour studies into how all things are interconnected have taught you to cast a very limited number of spells.
Benefit(s) Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell's level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You're considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.
You may select this discovery more than once. Each time, it grants you access to another spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Cohorts and Companions © 2015, Paizo Inc.; Authors: Brian Duckwitz, Philip Minchin, and Jason Nelson.
Owen is speaking as himself, he is not the PDT. As I read it, that discovery don't give you a caster level. It give you a caster level to cast that specific spell when you have it memorized. I wouldn't qualify that as having a caster level when you take a feat.
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It says right in the feat:
Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based.
So yes, you definitely have a caster level. You're casting an arcane spell.
The text is a bit longer that the part you are extracting. You ar eusing a row of text in a vacuum, but it don't workt that way.
Benefit(s) Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell's level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You're considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.
"Your caster level" refer to the specific spell you have chosen with the feat. Not to having a caster level for other purposes.
The FAQ about the SLA abilities cited in the linked thread seem very relevant here. Getting a single spell or a few spells at X caster level count has having a caster level? No, at least for SLA. The situation here seem to be the same.
As a GM I am favorable to give alchemist the ability to get the feat to craft magic items, but this feat don't seem to do that.
Sorry to have been absent from the thread all day. Posted right before work. In a moment, I will post the full text excerpts for the argument. In the meantime, thanks Diego for pointing out the 3pp on Brew Greater Potion. I heard it was a new addition from a buddy of mine (who is like-minded in sticking to Paizo products), so I didn't double check the source. Now, to tackle Craft Wand, Craft Staff, and Forge Ring.
Ok, so first is the bad news: Alchemists are not considered to have a Caster Level by default.
Although the alchemist doesn't actually cast spells, he does have a formulae list that determines what extracts he can create. An alchemist can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on his formulae list, but not spell-completion items (unless he uses Use Magic Device to do so)... The alchemist uses his level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level.
Is an alchemist a spellcaster for the purpose of crafting magic items other than potions?
As written, no, alchemists are not spellcasters, and therefore can't select feats such as Craft Wondrous Item. The design team is aware that this creates some thematic problems with the idea of an alchemist creating golems and so on, and plan to examine this in the future.
Next are the feats desired. I'll stick with everyone's favorite:
Craft Wondrous Item: You can create wondrous items, a type of magic item.
Prerequisite: Caster level 3rd.
Alchemists, by the FAQ, cannot qualify for this feat because it requires "Caster Level 3rd." Now, according to the SLA FAQ:
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly. For instance, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat. However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells".
The exception of the spell being explicitly called out is obviously for the Summoner, and less obviously for... other things (like the example of Dimensional Agility).
Let's look at the wording on an ability that offers a character a SLA:
Minor Magic (Sp)
Prerequisite: Intelligence 10Benefit: A rogue with this talent gains the ability to cast a 0-level spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. This spell can be cast three times a day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability is equal to the rogue's level. The save DC for this spell is 10 + the rogue's Intelligence modifier.
Now for the wording of the Discovery:
Benefit(s) Select a single spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list that is at least 2 levels lower than your highest-level extract known. You can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell. Preparing the spell uses up an extract slot 1 level higher than the spell's level. Your caster level is equal to your alchemist level, and your save DCs and concentration checks are Intelligence-based. You're considered to have this spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites, spell completion items, and spell trigger items.
The Caster Level language is similar, but with one important difference: the SLA is named as such ("This spell can be cast three times a day as a spell-like ability."), whereas in the case of Spell Knowledge, you "can prepare and cast this spell as an arcane spell."
Caster Level actually also has a definition (albeit shaky):
Caster Level
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.
As for the intention of the Discovery:
It gives you a caster level and counts as a spell on your spell list for purposes of prerequisites. I'm not sure it's a *good* path to any PrCs (you're going to get a spell of any given level much later than true casting class), but I'd certainly assume you are considered a spellcaster... I gave it considerable thought. This seemed a reasonable price. I would't have noted that the spell counted toward using magic items and prerequisites if I hadn't given it any thought.
What I didn't want to do was say "this one archetype can make this one specific construct, but no other alchemist can do anything else like that, even though we just proved t can be done in-world."
However, even the writer of the ability is not the end-all, be-all of its use (thus the need for rules updates to maintain overall game balance).
With all of this information, it seems that the Alchemist essentially becomes a really cruddy wizard, able to prepare a single spell. However, for that spell, her Caster Level is equal to her Alchemist level. The spell is a "spell," prepared and cast with all components.
So, I guess my final question becomes: how many spells do you need to be able to cast to be considered a "Spell Caster" and thus have a Caster Level for the purpose of crafting feats? Do you need the Spells class feature to qualify for any of the feats?
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He get a caster level for that spell, not for other spells. A bit hard to classify that as a caster level for general purposes.
@ darkerthought7: Keep in mind that even with the more favorable interpretation you will know only 1 spell with a caster level for each feat you expend in spell knowledge, so it is a lousy way to make wands and scrolls. To quote: "you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.", so your alchemist would be able make only wands that contain the spells learned with this feat or whit the help of friends with the right spells.
Very inefficient unless you don't know what to do with your feats.
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He get a caster level for that spell, not for other spells. A bit hard to classify that as a caster level for general purposes.
There is absolutely zero distinction anywhere in the rules between a caster level for X number of spells, and a caster level for Y number of spells. You are making that up entirely.
In fact, a Ranger has a caster level of 1 at 4th level when (if their Wisdom isn't high enough) they can cast 0 spells.
That feat don't give you a caster level for x spells, it give you a caster level for 1 single, specific, named spell. And only when that spell is memorized.
There is no such thing as a general caster level. There is only your caster level for each spell. And the SLA qualification reversal did not change that.
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He get a caster level for that spell, not for other spells. A bit hard to classify that as a caster level for general purposes.
There is absolutely zero distinction anywhere in the rules between a caster level for X number of spells, and a caster level for Y number of spells. You are making that up entirely.
In fact, a Ranger has a caster level of 1 at 4th level when (if their Wisdom isn't high enough) they can cast 0 spells.
That feat don't give you a caster level for x spells, it give you a caster level for 1 single, specific, named spell. And only when that spell is memorized.
You do realize that X is a variable, and includes the number '1'.
Nowhere, and I mean nowhere, do the rules say what you claim. At all.
The feat gives a caster level, period. The fact that there is only one spell on your spell list is 100% irrelevant, and there is nothing in the rules anywhere that distinguishes between the caster level for a spell list with a single spell, or a spell list with a 100 spells.
Seriously, how can you even claim such a thing? What words are you using to support your conclusion?
Do you realize that "Magic missile" isn't a number?
That feat don't give you a caster level for X spells where X can be a number from 0 to infinite, it give you a caster level for Magic Missile, or See invisible or another specific spell.That caster level is present only when you have the spell memorized, and only for that spell.
So? It's still a spell and still a caster level. I don't see how having only one spell changes that. There's certainly nothing I can find in the rules that even implies that there's some number of spells necessary in order to qualify.
Let's say that there is a feat that allow you to increase your CL by two for a specific spell. Would that make you eligible for Craft wondrous items if you where a first level character and had it for sleep?
yes.
Although you could arguably only craft items that require sleep and no other spells.