Shield Gauntlet Style and Shield Bashing

[Frosty Ace]

So Shield Gauntlet Style allows you to treat a gauntlet as a buckler for purposes of feats and abilities. I assume this obviously includes things like (Greater) Shield Focus, Missile Shield, any Shield Mastery feats, other styles that require a shield or numerous class features invilvong weilding a buckler.

My question is, does a gauntlet attack in the style also count as a shield bash? For example, if your end up with Weapon Style Mastery and Upsetting Shield style, does the gauntlet attack count as a buckler bash? Or for the Shield Mastery feat Stumbling Bash. I suppose this has to assume you can bash with a buckler via class features or feats, or would attacking with the style already count as a bashing gauntlet?

I ask since I really like Shield Gauntlet Style and have been pondering a few more creative combos with it. I looked up sheild bashing and all I got was that it's an off-hand attack with a shield. Dunno of there is something obvious I'm missing. Figured I'd just ask.

[Protoman]

Frosty Ace wrote:

So Shield Gauntlet Style allows you to treat a gauntlet as a buckler for purposes of feats and abilities. I assume this obviously includes things like (Greater) Shield Focus, Missile Shield, any Shield Mastery feats, other styles that require a shield or numerous class features invilvong weilding a buckler.

My question is, does a gauntlet attack in the style also count as a shield bash? For example, if your end up with Weapon Style Mastery and Upsetting Shield style, does the gauntlet attack count as a buckler bash? Or for the Shield Mastery feat Stumbling Bash. I suppose this has to assume you can bash with a buckler via class features or feats, or would attacking with the style already count as a bashing gauntlet?

I ask since I really like Shield Gauntlet Style and have been pondering a few more creative combos with it. I looked up sheild bashing and all I got was that it's an off-hand attack with a shield. Dunno of there is something obvious I'm missing. Figured I'd just ask.

With upsetting shield style and weapon style mastery, the gauntlet would ought to equal a light shield bash attack, but using the gauntlet damage. For specific over general purposes, I'd say that one still needs Shielded Gauntlet Master to keep shield bonus if that gauntlet was used to attack over regular Improved Shield Bash feat.

Shield bashing got errata'd to have that "off-hand attack" taken out since maybe the second printing, so can be used as a main attack.

[Murdock Mudeater]

As written, definitely seems like attacks with the gauntlet would make it cease to count as a buckler. Shield bash sounds iffy.

[Frosty Ace]

Murdock Mudeater wrote:

As written, definitely seems like attacks with the gauntlet would make it cease to count as a buckler. Shield bash sounds iffy.

Shield Gauntlet Attack and Shield Gauntlet Master for context. I agree that in the first feat, attacking with the Gauntlet clearly means it stops acting as a shield, but with the final feat it maintains its shield properties. To be clearer, this question assumes I gave the entire chain.

[Frosty Ace]

Any other input or ideas about this? I do not expext to see any real FAQ (Kind of like with Spear Dancing and enchantments) but still, if there's any other rules or whatever that could help, that'd be great.

[Murdock Mudeater]

In context with all three feats, looks like shield bash isn't intended. Definitely something awesome for gauntlet users.

[Kazaan]

This is the same as the issue with the Klar. It's described as a shield that has a long blade sticking out of the bottom and describes you as attacking with the blade rather than bashing with the shield; but it also goes on to say the Klar counts as a light shield.

The way I've interpreted this kind of situation is that a shield bash with the shield is entirely separate from any other method of attack you might use. In the case of the Klar, you can either attack with the blade, using the properties and damage dice of the blade, or you can make a shield bash using the properties and damage dice of a light spiked shield. In other words, other forms of attack you can make with the shield don't automatically qualify as shield bashing. So, for the Shield Gauntlet style, your attack with the gauntlet is just an attack with a gauntlet. To illustrate, if you had some hypothetical feat that said you treat, say, a Cestus as a light shield, then attacks with the properties of a Cestus don't qualify as shield bashes and shield bashes as a light shield don't qualify as attacks with a Cestus.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Just seems the would have mentioned shield bash in any of the three feats if they intended shield bashing.

[Oddman80]

If you have the ability to MAKE a shield bash with a buckler (such as through the Buckler Duelist archetype of the Fighter Class) then the wording of shield guantlet style would allow you to use your guantlets to buckler bash.

But i am unclear of the "now what"

[Kazaan]

Oddman80 wrote:

If you have the ability to MAKE a shield bash with a buckler (such as through the Buckler Duelist archetype of the Fighter Class) then the wording of shield guantlet style would allow you to use your guantlets to buckler bash.

But i am unclear of the "now what"

Keep in mind that SGS states the gauntlet counts as a buckler while receiving the AC bonus. Making a shield bash with a buckler via some ability that allows you to do so would normally deny you the AC bonus which means it doesn't count as a Buckler, which means you can't bash with it.

[Cavall]

You'd need an ability to bash with bucklers. A GM may have you need the feat to also keep ac while doing a shield bash, as the mastery feat states you keep ac while making attacks with the gauntlet. I wouldn't be so picky,as it's clear a shield bash (now that you could with bucklers) is an attack with a gauntlet.

Basically it needs at least a buckler bashing feat or ability, then you're free to go. It will require mastery though, but a human could do that by 4th level fighter and have it all.