Building a Warrior, I thought it would be easy


Advice


Ok Im not that experienced as a player and I play in a Pathfinder Society Campaign. My group doesnt have a permanent setup so each week we have different players, can pick different characters, enter different scenarios, and these cause problems. One key problem is nobody wants to be a Warrior (or a Rogue). Different players pick all sorts of specialists but some of these fundamental things are missed over. One serious scenario and we can(and did) die.

So I went back to making a Warrior I had been sidetracked over trying to make all the cool casters.

Now Im looking up as much as a can into making a practical Warrior with general fighting ability BUT also some special skill. Fighter would be a easy choice, right? I look that up and everything is based around different equipment builds, like a Shield specialist, two-weapon fighting, mounted, etc. and they dont special buffs. If I could take a bonus Feats and Barbarian's rage too, that would give you an idea.


I originally thought of a Slayer(archer) and a Bloodrager. Ive been eager to make the Bloodrager until I found it out Bloodline powers are all dependent on being in a Rage state. This Just ruined the class for me, as without a continuous rage or using spells(doesnt unlock those until later) its just a worse Barbarian, which is a worse Fighter unless it is in a Rage.

Im going to look into a melee Slayer again. I originally wanted one as they can perform like Rogues, but better in general combat. My design started with melee, worked into an Archer(ranger combat style), ranged sneak attacks(sniper goggles+sneak). I think that is still viable, but I would really need to focus on melee combat at level 1.


Build a barbarian and choose a rage totem. I know, almost ALL of their abilities are while raging but consider how many rounds of rage you get per day. You start with 4+ Con mod rounds and gain 2 more each level. Choose the character trait Berserker of the Society for an additional 3 rounds starting out. If your combats are lasting long enough that you STILL don't have enough rage then take the Extra Rage feat.

Another option one of my players used to great effect was the Strangler archetype of the Brawler class. He was frequently buffed by the Bard but was quite dangerous without. He straight up strangled every humanoid he ever fought. He also choked a Dire Tiger to death after receiving an Enlarge Person spell. They became so effective at destroying their enemies the duo became known as Team Bardbarian lol

The Pinned condition was the last place anybody wanted to be with him as his grapple CMD was almost inescapable. He was building towards the Neckbreaker feat!

Liberty's Edge

One thing about barbarians, and by extension bloodragers; yes they are somewhat gated by rounds of rage per day. This is really only a limitation at low levels. At high levels, outside of certain scenarios or modules you should have enough rounds of rage that you never run out. The extra rage feat will almost guarantee you will never run out of rage. So the barbarian isn't just a worse fighter. Even without rage it's got the most hit points in the game, second level and up it can't be caught flat-footed (which means you can make attacks of opportunity in the surprise round, even if you didn't see it coming), and at higher levels has damage reduction. And most of the rage powers are much more powerful that feats, enough so that most builds take the extra rage power feat, because they're so many good options it's hard to leave some out of your build. For a long time barbarians really outperformed fighters, and it's only fairly recently that fighters have started to close that gap.

Also, bloodragers aren't just worse barbarians. I'm not going to say they're better, but they have some really interesting options that barbarians can't really match. Like every time you're raging get a free blur, resist energy, spider climb, or even displacement or haste. No spell slot used, you just get the effect as long as you rage. Or maybe if you're in a campaign like wrath of the righteous (or playing season 5 in PFS) you go with celestial bloodline and starting at level 1, you do an extra 1d6 against evil outsiders and your weapon counts as good for overcoming DR good/. Or just grow large every fight with massive flaming claws. There's a ton of cool, and powerful options here, enough to rival rage powers. So basically you're trading one hit point a level for 4 level casting, which is a heck of a trade. Not so much for the actual spells you'll be casting, but for the activation of wands and scrolls. Level 1 you can pick up a wand of shield, cast it at the start of battle and wade in with a 2 handed weapon, doing 2 handed raging damage with the highest AC in the party.

Either is a great contributer to combat, and both have 4 skill ranks per level, which means they'll be able to contribute a little outside of combat as well. Really though, at this point, any of the full BAB classes can do fairly well in and outside of combat if built right. And any of them make good melee characters, though they all play differently.

Of course, if you did want to do archery, it's a very good combat style, I would stay away from sniping though. PFS doesn't usually lend itself to sneaking around, since it usually slows down gameplay quite a bit, and most PFS games are run in 4-5 hour time slots. Also, the rules for sniping are particularly hard to do well at. It would be better to just focus on a slayer who used studied target and full attacked, using the ranger archery style to pick up the many feats required to do archery well. If it's specifically for PFS you could play a high strength character for level 1, then retrain the character for high dex, medium strength. A 14 strength would still allow you to swing a great sword in an emergency, while really being great at what you were intended to do. Later, you'll want to pick up some sandals of quick reaction to be able to take a full attack in the surprise round, shooting at any enemies who haven't acted for sneak attack. Of course, that's assuming you want sneak attack, you could also make a great archer out of a number of classes.

EDIT - Ninja'd a bit there, guess that's what I get for the wall of text post.


Barbarians and Bloodragers are very impractical because of their dependency on limited uses of Rage. In practical ability the Bloodrager has one less hit point per level, but also gains up to 5 bonus feats and spells later. At level 1 I would spend 95-100% of the time without rage. If that is the case, I dont see much use of picking either one over say a Druid or Cleric that grow even more with access up to tier 9 spells while Rage is still limited(sure about 45 rounds is quite long).

An Archer Slayer just goes together. With Sniper Goggles you can sneak attack at any range and even combine that with Study to make a marksman, even later Firearms. Early on as Studying takes a move action it goes best with a Short Bow as you can study and fire every turn. A one and/or two-handed melee weapon could easily make a Slayer into a Switch Hitter.

Im reviving my own interest in the Slayer. Its a great deal more versatile either the Fighter or Rogue. The Rogue isnt good enough at fighting, and the Fighter isnt good enough at anything other than fighting.

I really think It was a mistake to make so many classes in Dungeons and Dragons and that extends to Pathfinder. Just a Warrior type character has abilities divided up so much.


It's really more the diversity accompanies different styles. If you just want to bash stuff, Barbarian is simple to play, but if you're creative you can find other ways. I'd heard most combats last around four rounds, which fits what I've seen. Just play what you think woks best. Personally I like Kobolds for firearm snipers, but oh well. There's a lot of stuff to navigate. People here are quite creative however, and can probably navigate together. You can't really compare clerics and Barbarians. Clerics have a lot less accuracy and damage, and barbarians have no spellcasting. They're meant for different purposes. The point is, there is more than one way to skin a cat, and this helps make for as many unique and creative builds.


Note that the current sniper archetype for slayers doesn't alter/replace the 2nd level talent, since the last errata. This is almost certainly an error itself, but it also won't likely be corrected for a very long time. So, unless you have reason to be really good at tracking, that archetype is nearly a must have for any build that can take it.


Having played a Barbarian from level 1, Rage isn't that bad to manage. I'll admit to having a human rageball, so she picked up Power Attack and Extra Rage, but even like that she's still contributing a few things to the fight.

First is of course that lovely d12 hit die, and full BAB for Power Attacking things you don't like. Rage of course kicks in every so often, and as you level up it brings on many fun toys. And while yes, it sucks to try to fight in rage withdrawal (especially when your GM looks at 'rage cycling' and thinks 'I'm glad I bought Pathfinder Unchained'), it's still doable. And skill points are nice -- 4 a level, plus Perception, Knowledge (Nature), and Survival means you've got something to do when you're not fighting. If you like archetypes, Invulnerable Rager means DR of half your level. It's fun to see d20pro register a hit and damage for 0.

That said, there's other ways to fight -- I assumed as much when you kept saying 'Warrior', as the other assumption (the actual class named 'Warrior') is ... not meant for PCs. My other choice would probably be Unchained Monk, for the fun value of punching out things. Especially since unarmed strike can represent headbutts. Mwahahaha.


As multiple people have said most barbarians don’t have a problem running out of rage except at very low levels. Most classes have some sort of limited resource to manage except for the fighter. Look at it this way by the time you run out of rage the spell casters are going to be out of spells anyways, so more than likely the whole party is in the same situation.

Barbarians also get more skill points and get perception as a class skill. Take a trait to get stealth as a class skill and you can function as a rogue except for maybe disabling traps. You can spot them just not remove them.


I multi-class my barbs and take extra rage. I have 12 rounds from level 3, that's been enough for me to rage every fight I wanted to rage in as I work my way up to 7 when I'll take it again, just in case a fight goes wrong and long in the higher levels.

So personally I recommend taking the level of rage and then going into something else OR being a bloodrager.


95-100% without is pretty much the opposite of what I see barb players have rage up for in PFS...

I ran with a barb for almost all of 11 levels and I never saw him run out

Sovereign Court

What do you see as filling the "Warrior" role with some "special skill"? Because lots of classes can be front-liners who can still contribute outside of combat

Slayers (work great as sword & board TWF)
Rangers
Monks (take qinggong plus at least 1 more archetype)
Umonks (really it's a similar but different class entirely)
Warpriest
Inquisitor
Brawler
Paladin
Probably more I can't think of off the top of my head.


In my opinion, a single full BAB striker probably won't solve the problem you are describing. Instead, I would focus on making a character that will increase everyone's martial prowess, while being able to fight in the front lines as well.

The obvious choices for this is either a bard or and evangelist cleric, with the second being a little better at helping out in myriad ways due to more spells, while the first being probably a bit more effective at dealing damage themselves since they are a little less MAD.

A bard archer or a reach evangeilist would let pretty much any 3/4 bab character function as effectively as a full BAB class, while contributing some fairly good damage themselves.

Sovereign Court

Dave Justus wrote:
A bard archer or a reach evangeilist would let pretty much any 3/4 bab character function as effectively as a full BAB class, while contributing some fairly good damage themselves.

I will agree with that. My PFS bard has helped quite a few 3/4 BAB class's accuracy issues with Inspire Courage & Heroism (and helped even more badly built full BAB characters be decent >.<) - though he's a melee Fencing Grace bard rather than an archer, so he also fills the role of front-liner.


Thank you for your suggestions. What i am trying to do is brainstorm a Warrior type character without having "awesome but impractical" special abilities that are limited use, OR being so "boring but practical" that yo have no special abilities, but both. Imagine a Fighter's bonus feats mixed on Barbarian as a start. Im not saying make a fighter with tier 9 Cleric, Druid, and wizard abilities.

Ok to start off Ill work the necessities. Four skill points per level, 10 hit points per level, Full Base Attack Bonus, all Proficiencies except Exotic.

Here are my top 3 choices.
1 Fighter is close. Upside: Almost all proficiencies, full BAB, bonus feats.
Drawback: Low Skill points and no supernatural or spell like abilities.

2 Warpriest also. Upside: Most proficiencies, bonus feats, Tier 6 cleric casting, and supernatural abiltities.
Drawback: Low skill points, reduced hit points, reduced BAB.

3 Slayer oh so close. Upside: High skill points, Full BAB, martial weapon proficiency, bonus feats, sneak damage, Study Target.
Drawback: No heavy armor compatibility, limited number of useful bonus feats.

Im probably missing some Fighter Archetype that fits the mold.


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...I think part of the problem is your expectations. Pathfinder, by design, is partially a resource-management game. The stronger something is, the fewer uses you have each day.

Have you considered looking into Path of War classes? They're still all-day Martials, but they have many more unique abilities.


It might be easier if you started by listing which roles you would like the character to fill. For example.

In Combat Roles
* Ranged
* Sword and Shield
* Two-handed
* Reach
* Two Weapons
* Switch Hitter
* Debuffer
* Buffer
* etc.

Out of Combat Roles
* Scout
* Healer
* Negotiator
* etc.

If it is possible to achieve your goal, I'm sure someone here will know how to accomplish it.


There's been a lot of new stuff added for the fighter in the last couple of splat books. Not sure what's PFS legal but these stuff helps "round out" the fighter.


ChaosTicket wrote:

Ok to start off Ill work the necessities. Four skill points per level, 10 hit points per level, Full Base Attack Bonus, all Proficiencies except Exotic.

As noted earlier, this is a kind'a vague list. Right now to fit it you have barbarians (both stock and unchained), rangers, bloodragers, cavaliers (no trophy puns), slayers, and samurai for all martial and simple weapons, and armour up to medium. Fighters, paladins, unchained monks, magi, brawlers, gunslingers, and swashbucklers come pretty close, falling short in skill points (fighters and paladins), hit dice (magi), armour (monks, gunslingers, brawlers, swashbucklers), and weapons (monks, brawlers). And some of them have included ways around these -- monks and brawlers, say, just punch you harder until it's worse than a catapult, while swashbucklers prefer being nimble and dainty to avoid getting hit by that irate monk.


Qaianna wrote:


As noted earlier, this is a kind'a vague list. Right now to fit it you have barbarians (both stock and unchained), rangers, bloodragers, cavaliers (no trophy puns), slayers, and samurai for all martial and simple weapons, and armour up to medium.

Ah, yes, I missed the other criteria on that.

Part 2: Bonus Feats(Combat, general, or any type), and at least 1 supernatural, or spell like ability.
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Bloodrager is another very close. I opened this thread because a had built one a while ago but never used it. I started looking over Warriors again, but I looked it over and realized the character however had almost nothing to start out with. Bonus feats dont happen until level 6, spells until level 4, and rage doesnt get more than 1 combat worth of feats for while.

By the way, have any of you ever read any RPG parodies? DM of the Rings, Darths and Droids, Chainmail Bikini, Goblins, Order of the Stick, Grand Line 3.5, etc.

I just started reading Chainmail Bikini today and found one character make an RPG character hilariously broken, but also tempting. A sense of morality however prevents me from making a "half-ogre, half-elf, half-human" armed with 6 weapons and so on.


I try a different way to put this. how about I put up an early build idea for different classes and ask you to review?

Slayer Half-Orc

Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 7

Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored
Alternate Racial abilities: Sacred Tattoos, maybe Shaman Apprentice

Feats: 1 Point Blank Shot
2 Ranger Combat Style: Precise Shot
3 Rapid Shot
4 Trapfinder
5 Deadly Aim, may alternate with Improved Initiative
6 Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot
7 Manyshot
8 Combat Trick: Clustered Shots
9 free, maybe Improved initiative
10 Ranger Combat Style: Pinpoint Targeting
11 Free

I made this character immediately after trying out a pre-generated Ranger with Archer combat style, and finding out how limited the Ranger's features were.

Sovereign Court

I will say - while that's perfectly viable, Rangers actually make better archers than Slayers (The 3 best archer classes in the game are probably Ranger/Fighter/Zen Archer, not necessarily in that order.) due to their spell-casting making it better.

Slayers really come into their own with TWF, especially sword & board TWF.

Also - for an archer, DEX takes priority over STR.


A sniper slayer makes a pretty good archer. And you can combine sniper with stygian to be able to stealthily reach all of the good out of the way sniping spots.


Well its an everything Slayer. High skill points, can act as Face character even, good with bows and still Ok with melee, can flank, sneak, and snipe(once I get Sniper Goggles)

I play in the Pathfinder Society, so I made this character with maximum combat feats early on. Slayer Archetypes have some big early penalties. In a regular campaign those would be minor as they replace early access to the Good slayer Talents. There are handful of good slayer talents. the Archetypes overall just mean you get them slower.

A Stygian Slayer has quite good stealth and escape powers. Doesnt have medium armor proficiency. Invisibility once per day for even 4 minutes would make an excellent escape tool.

A vanguard gives a scaling initiative bonus and allows you to always act in the surprise round.

Liberty's Edge

The slayer build above is pretty good, but a couple suggestions. First, trade dex and strength. Hitting is much more important than doing +1 damage. In fact, I'd consider lowering strength to 14 to start with a dex of 18, and bumping wisdom to 12. Then put your level 4 and 8 stat ups into dex. You're going to be taking a -2 penalty from rapid shot, and -1 to -3 from deadly aim, so keeping your attack stat high is important. The 1 or 2 points less to attack and damage in melee shouldn't really be an issue, since you should be shooting from the back anyway, and can rely on studied target, flanking and sneak attack for boosts to attack and damage if you do get drawn into melee.

Second thing is consider moving clustered shots to level 9, and taking the surprise attack talent at 8. Combine it with sandals of quick reaction and you can make a full attack in the surprise round, dealing sneak attack on every hit. Just make sure to boost your perception and sense motive so that you always act in the surprise round, or take the vanguard archetype, though I'm not a fan of the replacement abilities for the 2 slayer talents, and having a high initiative doesn't really affect the surprise attack talent. So I'd likely avoid it.

Lastly, if you have a free feat somewhere, try and fit in accomplished sneak attacker, since an extra 1d6 sneak attack is always nice.

Sovereign Court

Deighton Thrane makes some good suggestions, but I'd also get Point Blank Master ASAP (at 6) as it removes the main disadvantage of archery.


Those are good suggestions for an optimized Slayer specializing in Archery. I was planning more of a Switch Hitter.

If I made that then other feats would be Combat reflexes, weapon focus, snap shot, and improved Snap Shot.

A fighter is better for that kind of specialization as they have the most feats of any class.


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"switch hitting" requires quickdraw and it sucks.

There's only mechanical drawbacks to trying to switch hit.
If you're interested why it's bad I can explain more as to why it's always a bad option to plan on "switch hitting"

Sovereign Court

Chess Pwn wrote:

"switch hitting" requires quickdraw and it sucks.

There's only mechanical drawbacks to trying to switch hit.
If you're interested why it's bad I can explain more as to why it's always a bad option to plan on "switch hitting"

While I agree (at least in terms of melee/bow) there are a couple of exceptions.

With recent books throwing weapon builds have become viable, and they're pretty much inherently switch-hitters.

In addition, some spell-casters can do it decently with their range being covered by spells. Some Kinetiscists do it pretty easily, as do Drunken Master monks with their qinggong abilities. (The former being ranged who can do melee pretty well and Drunken Master monks being melee who can do ranged pretty decently.)

But as to melee/bow I agree entirely - it doesn't really work well in Pathfinder.


spells are more like a backup weapon, not switch hitting. All my melee people have a bow, and use it when it's needed like a flying foe is using ranged.

Kinetiscists can spend 2 feats finesse and power/piranha and a talent to do melee attacks that are the same as a 5ft step and ranged attack.

Anything that "has any focus on" ranged attacks should stick with ranged attacks. Melee should have a backup ranged option.


I really dont want to focus so heavily into one a fighting style that it becomes handicap. I would like to make a ranged combat character and worked my way into the Ranger, and when that failed moved onto the Slayer. I could just as easily pick Two-handed fighting style as those bonus feats can work for any melee weapon.

Just making an Archer there are other options already mentioned. Fighter-Archer, Ranger-Divine Archer, Monk-Zen Archer. Those are a great deal more specialized.
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Another Warrior type I though of a while ago was an Aberrant Steelblood Bloodrager .

str 16, dex 12, con 16, int 10, wis 10, cha 13.

Traits: same as slayer above

Feats: level 1 or 3 Aberrant Tumor is useful, if I can get some help from the Questions forum sections
3 or 1 Power Attack
5 ???, Arcane Strike seems Ok.
7 ???
9 ???
11 ???

Bonus Feats: Level 6 Improved Initiative
level 9 Combat reflexes
level 12 Iron Will


so... here's how i would do that slayer if you really want to switch hit.

Slayer Half-Orc

Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 7 (i'd put the last couple points into making Dex or Con 15. your choice really)

Traits: Reactionary, Fate's Favored
Alternate Racial abilities: Sacred Tattoos, maybe Shaman Apprentice

Feats: 1 Power Attack
2 Ranger Combat Style: Rapid Shot
3 Quickdraw
4 Trapfinder
5 Deadly Aim
6 Ranger Combat Style: Manyshot
7 free
8 Rogue Talent: Snap Shot
9 free
10 Ranger Combat Style: Improved Precise Shot
11 free

you don't need anymore archery feats, so focus the rest on melee. use a two-handed weapon. probably get the sandals of quick reaction that deighton mentioned. possibly get snap shot before trapfinder. (your call.)

edit: also, i don't know why you would use a shortbow... ever. get a composite longbow. (that's not entirely true. i always want to use a shortbow for aesthetics and whatnot, but honestly a composite longbow is better in almost every way*.)

edit 2: also, with snap shot you don't really need initiative, as deighton said, so i'd replace reactionary as well and focus on perception/sense motive as was advised so as to reliably act in the surprise round.

*addendum to edit 1: in case you were wondering, the shortbow is cheaper and weighs less if that matters to you. still get a composite one, of course.


also what was your goal for this bloodrager? still switch hitting or something else?


A bit confused so I checked there is Rogue Talent: Snap Shot and feats Snap shot and Improved Snap Shot.

The Rogue talent: Snap Shot is questionable because it only allows you to make 1 attack in A surprise Round but at 20 initiative, and then you have to roll initiative again after the surprise round.

I think it was made to gives rogues the ability to fire poisoned arrows at the start of combat. It would make more sense if you could stealth instead. ooh, use Fast Stealth to always have stealth up so youre first shot is always a sneak attack.

Edit: Bloorager with ranged combat feats? No that wouldnt work as they dont get many bonus feats. With some classes you could get bonuses that apply to ranged and melee attacks. Slayer that fits very well with Study Target. For a Bloodrager, every combat feat would be melee, but not every feat would be a combat feat.

I am interested in giving some ranged weapon. Throwing weapons could be useful. Returning throwing weapons maybe? If i could throw 1-4 magic javelins per turn that would be awesome.


with snap shot you roll initiative normally but treat it as 20 during the surprise round. this means you probably go first. that means your enemies are probably flat footed. that means you get sneak attack damage. the sandals previously mentioned allow you to take a standard and a move. whether or not that means you can full attack is debatable. either way, snap shot is better for your slayer plan than fast stealth (which let's you move faster while stealthed not get stealthed faster).


also, I didn't think you wanted to switch hit with the bloodrager but I wanted to know what you were aiming for. you could, theoretically, switch hit with twf and thrown weapons if you really wanted to. the goal of switch hitting isn't to be equally effective at ranged and melee, but to have a strong ranged opening to soften up opponents before melee breaks out and you wade into battle. works out best for ranger and slayer because they don't need dex for the archery feats they want, but you could probably be alright (ie extremely mediocre) at it as a bloodrager...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I was going to suggest a brawler. Since you're not too sure what your party make up will be each session, having the ability to swap out feats seems like a good idea.

Sometimes you'll be a tank, sometimes a skirmisher, sometimes an archer, sometimes a grappler, sometimes a scout, sometimes a battlefield controller.


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SmiloDan wrote:

I was going to suggest a brawler. Since you're not too sure what your party make up will be each session, having the ability to swap out feats seems like a good idea.

Sometimes you'll be a tank, sometimes a skirmisher, sometimes an archer, sometimes a grappler, sometimes a scout, sometimes a battlefield controller.

I've been working on a build which can do something similar with the Ancestral Weapon Mastery feat. If you are already proficient with the weapons on your Weapon Familiarity racial trait, then the feat grants you Weapon Focus with one of them. But with 10 minutes of practice you can shift Weapon Focus between those weapons. So I've been looking into feats that apply to any weapon that has Weapon Focus.

Elven Weapons
For example, a Half-elf Occultist (with the Weapon Proficiency alternate racial trait) could transfer Weapon Focus between the following weapons.

* Longsword (martial, one-handed, 1d6, 1d8, 19-20/x2, S)
* Rapier (martial, one-handed, 1d4, 1d6, 18-20/x2, P, finesse)
* Longbow (martial, ranged, 1d6, 1d8, x3, 100 ft, P)
* Longbow, Composite (martial, ranged, 1d6, 1d8, x3, 110 ft, P)
* Shortbow (martial, ranged, 1d4, 1d6, x3, 60 ft, P)
* Shortbow, Composite (martial, ranged, 1d4, 1d6, x3, 70 ft, P)
* Elven Curve Blade (exotic, two-handed, 1d8, 1d10, 18-20/x2, S, finesse)
* Elven Branched Spear (exotic, two-handed, 1d6, 1d8, x3, P, brace, reach, finesse)

It's a nice variety: longsword and rapier to use a shield, longsword or Elven curve blade for THF, Elven branched spear for TWF reach, and bows for ranged. Three of the melee weapons are even finessable if you wanted to take a Dex route. Pulling off both ranged and melee is pretty much impossible for the feat-starved Occultist so I've been focusing on the melee options. A Fighter could probably do both.

Feats
There are a few feat options that I've been considering. All of these combinations require Weapon Focus but thanks to Ancestral Weapon Mastery there is no need to take Weapon Focus in all of those weapons individually.

(1) Weapon Versatility will enable P, S, or B damage with any of those weapons.

(2) Stage Combatant will enable the use of Enforcer with any of the melee weapons.

(3) Dazzling Display and many of it's subsequent feats (Shatter Defenses, Gory Finish, Disheartening Display, or Violent Display) will work with all of those weapons.

The character can easily switch between three combat modes depending one whether the campaign or group make-up calls for the extra defense of sword and board, the high damage of the ECB, or the reach of the EBS. You couldn't switch during battles, but 10 minutes between battles would all that was needed. With a few general feats like Power Attack and Combat Reflexes all three combat forms seem reasonably effective.

(For a Dex build, Elven Battle Focus could be used to get Int to damage for the melee weapons. This would probably be good for an Occultist, but it's a lot of feats.)

Magic Items
To keep costs down I'm thinking of using a Bladed Belt at low levels, and an adamantine rapier with the Greater Transformative special ability at higher ones. The Ancestral Clasp and High Elven Bracers would give boosts to all of the racial weapons.

Other Races
Most of the other races lack the range of options that Elves and Half-elves have. Half-orcs, for example, only get two-handed weapons although they get both reach and non-reach ones.

* Falchion (martial, two-handed, 1d6, 2d4, 18-20/x2, S)
* Greataxe (martial, two-handed, 1d10, 1d12, x3, S)
* Orc Double Axe (exotic, two-handed, 1d6/1d6, 1d8/1d8, x3, S, double)
* Orc Skull Ram (exotic, two-handed, 1d8, 1d10, x3, B, reach)

Dwarves, though, get a huge variety that includes light, one-handed, two-handed non-reach, two-handed reach, and even one thrown weapon.

* Battleaxe (martial, one-handed, 1d6, 1d8, x3, S)
* Heavy Pick (martial, one-handed, 1d4, 1d6, x4, P)
* Warhammer (martial, one-handed, 1d6, 1d8, x3, B)
* Dwarven Boulder Helmet (exotic, light, 1d3, 1d4, x2, B)
* Dwarven Maulaxe (exotic, light, 1d4, 1d6, x3, 10 ft, B or S)
* Dwarven Double Waraxe (exotic, one-handed, 1d8, 1d10, x3, S)
* Dwarven Waraxe (exotic, one-handed, 1d8, 1d10, x3, S)
* Dwarven Dorn-Dergar (exotic, two-handed, 1d8, 1d10, x2, B, reach)
* Dwarven Longaxe (exotic, two-handed, 1d10, 1d12, x3, S, reach)
* Dwarven Warhammer (exotic, two-handed, 1d10, 2d6, x3, B, reach)

I would imagine that a Dwarf fighter could get some real flexibility out of this approach.


That is interesting, but what does that have to do with making a better warrior type character?

That does fit a little with my own concerns. I would rather not create a crippling specialist character. I know people recommend that, but I wonder how often a GM forces them to work with what they lack. Make that Barbarian that dumped intelligence solve puzzles or die.

1 Slayer has skills/stealth/bonuses against any enemy, so more jack-of-all-trades rather than master-of-none.
2 Bloodrager has some magic powers and less focused on Raging than Barbarian.
3 Brawler is quite focused Unarmed Combat. There arent alot of things to add there. Could combo well with another weapon type such as Longbows, but its not proficient in anything useful. Stuck using Scizores until your own attacks reach 1d10 damage.

Can anyone give any tips for general improvements into making a Warrior rather than a specialist? People said littleabout the Bloodrager profile I put up.


ChaosTicket wrote:
That is interesting, but what does that have to do with making a better warrior type character?

I thought you were looking for ways to be able to handle different combat styles rather than get locked into one style, and I thought you might be able to use some of those ideas. It's too late for me to delete the post, but I promise you that I won't bother you again by trying to help.


i don't think he meant that to sound as rude as it did, Gish.

ChaosTicket wrote:
Can anyone give any tips for general improvements into making a Warrior rather than a specialist?

the problem is that pathfinder doesn't really reward you for doing that; it rewards you for specializing. the closest thing you have is the brawler because he can get free temporary feats to adapt to the combat situation, but you seem to think they're not good enough.

also, if your GM is intentionally forcing you to work with what you lack, he's probably being a dick. you'll pretty much always be incapable of dealing with something on your own. that's why you have a party. if your GM insists on forcing you to solo a challenge tailored to your shortcomings, he's a bad GM.


Well I am full of chagrin right now. You were trying to help and i didnt believe that relevant. Im sorry.

Im of a practical mind. anything a person mentions I look up to confirm. Ancestral Weapon Mastery doesnt seem that useful as it just allows a temporary Weapon Focus to racial weapons. It doesnt count as Weapon focus for feat requirements.

If there is a partner feat that also gives Greater Weapon focus/Weapon Specialization/greater weapon specialiation to those weapons that would be quite powerful.

Edit: what feats are useful for anyone weapon you can pick up or allow you to benefit from a "walking armory"?


ChaosTicket wrote:
anything a person mentions I look up to confirm. Ancestral Weapon Mastery doesnt seem that useful as it just allows a temporary Weapon Focus to racial weapons. It doesnt count as Weapon focus for feat requirements.

are you sure we're looking at the same feat? because what i'm reading says you get Weapon Focus as a bonus feat and can change it with 10 minutes of practice.

similarly, you seemed to misunderstand the rogue talents we were discussing earlier with the slayer build. fast stealth doesn't do what you seemed to think it did, and the snap shot talent almost guarantees that you will get to sneak attack in the surprise round.


True, Im dont understand every combination in the Pathfinder, so things slip by me and my responses come off badly.

Rogue talent: Snaps Shot for example I didnt think "First attack, everyone else is flat footed, if you shoot at someone flat-footed it counts as a sneak attack."

ancestral weapon-mastery gives you proficiency on ALL racial weapons, allowing you to take those exotic-turned martial weapons on say a Cleric or Druid, and the Weapon Focus counts as a bonus feat, thought I still dont know if that counts for Prerequisites. Maybe a Warpriest combine that with Sacred Weapon?

That actuallly helps on a Druid I was making and I got irritable because its weapon proficiencies are limited.

Addendum: Fast Stealth removes the penalty for moving full speed while stealthed, or am I mistaken?


if you get it as a bonus feat, it definitely counts for prerequisites. it might not help with—nvm i'll just look.

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yeah, so you'd still have to take weapon specialization and the greaters for each weapon, so no extra versatility there, but the feats Gish pointed out (Weapon Versatility, Stage Combatant to enable Enforcer, and the Dazzling Display line) all use language that doesn't force you to pick a weapon but instead enable any weapon for which you have focus.


That build is quite specific on feats. That doesnt it its bad, but is is complicated.

I dont see the appeal of stacking most feats in one fighting style. I personally prefer a character that can do more through spells or special abilities, combined with some practical skills rather than 100% warrior or caster.

I say warrior as a character idea rather than Fighter the class. Different Warrior classes are archetypes in and of themselves, and they themselves have archetypes to further distinguish one another.

If I chose a fighter I might just put two feats up to get firearms and gunsmithing, reach weapon, and in full armor and with all the bonus combat feats. I like the Fighter's overall versatility. Other people like the specialties, such as a dual shield fighter.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Aren't there human-only feats that provide versatility? Or a fighter archetype that grants temporary feats?

Speaking of switchable feats, the inquisitor can switch out a Teamwork feat beginning at 3rd level. And they have a 3rd level spell (available at 7th level) that lets you share your Teamwork feats with allies.

I really wish the Cavalier Tactician ability worked for all Teamwork feats known, not just the Teamwork feat gained from it. Then a Cavalier/Inquisitor would make a really interesting option.

EDIT:

I just realized the inquisitor also has Judgments that you can switch out, too. Some boost attack rolls, some damage, some AC, some saving throws, some grant DR, some energy resistance, etc.

Inquisitors are essentially self-buffing combatants. They are also spontaneous 6/9 spellcasters, so you can use your magic to self-buff as well, or use it for utility, exploration, and social uses. Or direct damage and debuffing. Or healing.

They get all simple weapons, bows, and the favored weapon of their deity, plus any racial weapons, of course.

I think if I was making a warrior-type built for versatility, I would seriously consider the inquisitor.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I forgot: an inquisitor with the War domain gets to choose to use any Combat feat for 1 round per level at 8th level and beyond. You can choose a different combat feat each round you use this ability, and the daily rounds do not need to be consecutive.


Have you looked at mutation warrior for the fighter?

It would provide your barbarian "rage" in that it would add some extra punch, but with the versatility of being able to say, add it to dex so you could be able to get into melee but also archery? Then you can add any feats you like that help that out.

Basically makes you Bane. The pay off being that you'll lose armour mastery, however if you go a more switch hitting g dex build that isn't such a loss.


I was was trying to get advice about how to better plan out my currents characters before going into more classes.

Occultist(intelligence), Warpriest(wisdom), Hunter(wisdom), Inquisitor(wisdom)

Those are all classes that are versatile, with medium attack, armor, and spells. The drawback not actually being great at anything. I know they cant be perfect just because they dont have top BAB or spell tiers, but making them better is still worth trying.

For now, I will try to stick with Slayer, Druid, Cleric, and Bloodrager. Im in a Pathfinder Society campaign so they can be changed at level 1, but I dont want a big stable of level 1 characters as I wouldnt be able to player higher level scenarios.

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