Buffing "sword & board" styles


Homebrew and House Rules


Does anyone have a set of sensible house rules for making sword & board more effective? If you can offer a mini-treatise on why you don't think this is necessary, that would be acceptable too. :)


While I don't particularly feel it's underpowered, I dislike that the only avenue of "advancement" for Sword'n'Board is extra attacks.

Some ideas I've had for making a change were:

1. Shields applied to Reflex saves. Adding the bonus as well as gaining Evasion and Improved.

2. Additional defense mechanics, like reducing critical hits and outright blocking an attack.

3. Alternative attack options building on the shield slam, like other maneuvers than just bull rush, or blocking an attack allows putting the attacker off balance (lose dex to ac, or provoke aoo).

I haven't actually hammered out any rules specifically though.


It depends on what you mean by 'Sword adn Board.'

If you mean 'Sword and Board' to mean Shield Bashing, that's one avenue that combines the SHield Master Branch and TWF, and possibly Thrown Shield. Basically, the only thing to do there is some feat consolidation.

The other side is the defensive aspect.

This is the kind of thing that adds Shield bonuses to Reflex saves, Touch AC and CMD. It parries missiles and rays and improves Shield AC with levels, has bonuses against sunder attempts.

Then there's the Shield usage for allies, providing them cover, giving away the shield AC, forming shield walls and bracing against charges and the like.

What does Sword and Board mean for you? These are all different concepts = offense, defense and teamwork.


I'd recommend adding in content from Path of War, particularly the Iron Tortoise Discipline.


Das Bier wrote:
What does Sword and Board mean for you? These are all different concepts = offense, defense and teamwork.

Good question! I am thinking primarily about defence and teamwork.


Kaisoku wrote:


1. Shields applied to Reflex saves. Adding the bonus as well as gaining Evasion and Improved.

It should be against burst effect like fireball, it doesn't make sense that a shield help you to avoid a pit from create pit.


alexanderb wrote:
Das Bier wrote:
What does Sword and Board mean for you? These are all different concepts = offense, defense and teamwork.
Good question! I am thinking primarily about defence and teamwork.

So shield bashing isn't a thing for you.

Now, you go down the list of shield feats, and you consolidate them into 'Advanced Shield Training' feats, or somesuch thing.

Shield Ward was the 3.5 feat from Lords of Madness that added Shield AC to Touch AC, Reflex saves, and would do the same for CMD. One of the best feats Evar.

Missile Shield could be expanded not only to 1/rd missiles, but rays and even boulders if using a magical shield, and auto-block magic missiles.

Make a Feat: Sword and Board Style, req: Weapon Training 1. This feat counts as TWF and Improved Shield Bash. Your shield gains the same bonuses as your primary weapon for purposes of Weapon Training and Weapon Spec tree.

Make a Shield Guardian feat: REq: Armor Training I: Designate an adjacent person to share your Shield AC, and who gains that bonus on Reflex saves. If they get a cover bonus from you, it is increased by your shield bonus. If you forgo attacks, you can provide your shield AC or defensive fighting bonus to all adjacent allies. You use your BAB instead of Acrobatics for determining your Defensive Fighting AC bonus. You do not need to attack to gain the benefits of your Defensive Fighting AC bonus. You may perform the Withdraw action without penalty while using Total Defense with a wielded shield.

etc etc etc. Oh, and make sure you differentiate between Shields. I would exclusively NOT allow things like Klars and Bucklers to use these benefits...restrict them to light and heavy shields, and perhaps even give a bonus for the heavy shield.

Now, what you're going to promptly hear is that things like this make you a turtle, and you can't do enough damage to focus on you.

Well, no. The SAB feat means you are a GREAT twf. Consolidating feats means you can spend feats on your primary weapon, enabling it to do more and greater damage...and your shield bash shares in that bonus. Choose a primary weapon you can use one or two handed, so if you don't need the shield, you can go THF and hack away.


Now there's a feat that lets you use weapons two-handed while still using and fully benefiting from a buckler... That's quite powerful.


Yes, Unhindered Buckler effectively lets ANYONE get Shield AC.

Very strong. But not part of Sword and Board...and also why I say you should limit SAB benefits to light and heavy shields, or maybe even heavy shields alone (because someone is going to immediately argue a Klar is treated as a light shield).

Silver Crusade

For a defense-to-offense type of balanced combat style I'd look at Skyrim, as the sword&board in that game is interactive and effective. Have something where you can block, put the attacker off-balance, then gain an attack/damage boost until their next turn. If it's a bonus you share with your allies then you're also making a teamwork type character.

Example:
While using a heavy or tower shield, any creature who misses you with a melee attack takes a -2 penalty to attack and AC until the start of their next turn. While affected by this penalty all critical threats against that creature are automatically confirmed. If you are using a tower shield, that creature is also staggered.

EDIT: Per Das Bier's suggestion, added a restriction to heavy and tower shields. Also added additional incentive for tower shields.


Riuken wrote:

For a defense-to-offense type of balanced combat style I'd look at Skyrim, as the sword&board in that game is interactive and effective. Have something where you can block, put the attacker off-balance, then gain an attack/damage boost until their next turn. If it's a bonus you share with your allies then you're also making a teamwork type character.

Example:
While using a heavy or tower shield, any creature who misses you with a melee attack takes a -2 penalty to attack and AC until the start of their next turn. While affected by this penalty all critical threats against that creature are automatically confirmed. If you are using a tower shield, that creature is also staggered.

EDIT: Per Das Bier's suggestion, added a restriction to heavy and tower shields. Also added additional incentive for tower shields.

I'd just go heavy shields. Tower shields are cumbersome and ideally suited for masses of soldiers and battlefields, not adventuring. Although the Shield Ward benefits wouldn't be bad.

Indeed, having a Shield Guardian able to grant total cover with a heavy shield while using Total Defense or something would be an acceptable feat.


Dot.


For something that puts attackers off balance after their attacks bounce off your shield, I think Combat Expertise could actually pull some weight...

Shield Expertise (Combat)
You use your shield to block with great control, and send the attacker off-balance.
Prerequisite: Int 13, Combat Expertise
Benefit:: You must be wielding a light or heavy shield while using Combat Expertise to benefit from this feat. When a creature targets you with a melee attack while you're using Combat Expertise, and fails to meet your AC, you can, as an Immediate Action, use their momentum against them with a sharp motion of your shield. The creature's AC is lowered by an amount equal to your attack roll penalty from Combat Expertise until the start of their next turn.

If this seems a bit too much, you could make the enemy's AC penalty apply only to you.


Quote:

Shield Specialization [Combat]

Prerequisites: Shield Proficiency
Benefit: Choose light or heavy shield. Shield bonus to AC for the chosen type of shield is increased by 1.
Special: You lose this bonus if you shield bash.

Shield Deflection [Combat, Fighter]

Prerequisites: Shield Specialization
Benefit: When wielding the selected shield, you may add half the shield bonus to your touch Armor Class. Include any increases to the shield bonus from feats or magical enhancement. A fighter who takes this feat adds full shield bonus to his touch AC.
Normal: Touch and ranged touch attacks ignore shield bonuses to Armor Class.
Special: Benefit of this feat does not apply to incorporeal touch attacks. You lose this bonus if you shield bash.

Reflexive Shielding [Combat, Fighter]

Prerequisites: Shield Specialization
Benefit: When wielding the chosen type of shield, you can add half your shield bonus to AC for Reflex saves. A fighter who takes this feat adds full shield bonus to Reflex saves.
Special: You lose this bonus if you shield bash.

Shield Ward [Combat, Fighter]

Prerequisites: Shield Specialization
Benefit: When wielding the chosen type of shield, you can add half your shield bonus to AC for defense vs. combat maneuvers. A fighter who takes this feat adds full shield bonus to CMB defense.
Special: You lose this bonus if you shield bash.

Shield Ally [Combat]

Prerequisites: BAB +5, Shield Specialization or Tower Shield proficiency.
Benefit: You provide a +1 shield bonus to AC to an adjacent ally when you wield a shield with which you have Shield Specialization or tower shield. You can switch the bonus between adjacent allies as a free action once per round on your turn. This doesn’t stack any shield bonus the ally might have.
Special: The bonus increases to +2 if you have BAB +10, +3 if your BAB is +15, +4 if your BAB is +20. This bonus cannot exceed your total shield bonus.

Greater Shield Ally [Combat]

Prerequisites: Shield Ally
Benefit: You grant your Shield Ally bonus to all adjacent allies.

Shield Guardian [Combat]

Prerequisites: Combat Reflexes, Shield Ally.
Benefit: You can, as an immediate action, grant your full shield bonus to AC to an ally, but you lose the bonus yourself for 1 round and cannot use Shield Ally feat for the same time.

Improved Buckler Offense [Combat]

You can attack with an off-hand weapon without being encumbered by a buckler’s weight.
Prerequisite: Improved Buckler Defense
Benefit: When you attack with a weapon in your off hand, you do not take the -1 penalty to attack rolls due to the buckler.
Normal: You take a -1 penalty on attack rolls while wearing a buckler when attacking with an off-hand weapon.

Tower Shield Specialist [Combat]

Prerequisites: BAB +5
Benefit: You do not take -2 penalty to attack when using tower shield.

Here's feats from my 3.5/PF mash-up several years ago. Players were very happy with them. Some are redundant for PF now, but steal anything you like. Also, if making them today, I'd make some of them scale.


alexanderb wrote:
Does anyone have a set of sensible house rules for making sword & board more effective? If you can offer a mini-treatise on why you don't think this is necessary, that would be acceptable too. :)

I'd recommend looking into World of Warcraft for some ideas for creating good sword & board options for characters. In World of Warcraft, warriors use their shields to...

Shield Block (with abilities that let them block an incoming attack with 100% certainty).

Spell Reflect (a high-level warrior in WoW can spank an incoming targeted spell back at a caster similar to a spell turning).

Shield bash (interrupt a spell or concentrated ability, staggers the opponent making it hard for them to move for a few moments).

Shield slam (basically a super hard hit with your shield, can literally knock buffs off your target).

Shield Wall (shield provides a large % of damage mitigation, such as reducing all incoming damage by 50% for 3 rounds or something).

Meanwhile, Paladins got abilities like...

Sacred Shield (makes it so when enemies strike you, they take some damage, kind of like fire shield except holy damage).

Shield of Righteousness (a lot like Shield Bash but it's holy damage, doesn't dispel, but more spammy).

Avenger's Shield (think captain America, your shield becomes a thrown weapon that arcs between enemies before returning to you. Enemies hit with the shield suffer heavy damage and are staggered and potentially silenced/interrupted).

You don't have to tie these to classes like in WoW. They would make great high level martial options.


Johnnycat93 wrote:
I'd recommend adding in content from Path of War, particularly the Iron Tortoise Discipline.

There are also feats (Shield bonus to Touch attacks, for example) and class abilities for the Warder.

Grand Lodge

How about re-thinking how shields work altogether?

Like this.

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