Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game

Starfinder


Pathfinder Society


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

facing is not a thing in pathfinder and con nagative health


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion


so i got surrounded by three large ogres but one of them was turned away from me engaged in combat with a fellow Pc and since i was surrounded on three sides i had to 5 foot step out some where and got AoOed by the ogre that had his back to me and then by the one i was expecting to be attacked by for moving. i took 26 points of dmg because of that then i made my attack that round and got hit again by the ogre that was not facing me and the other one taking thirty dmg because of AoO i was expecting to take half that dmg and i attacked because i knew i was guna die anyways(but somehow i survived).

then the dm had two of the three ogres attack me on their turn i was dropped to -14 which is my PC's con limit i think anyways they said i was not dead because i needed to get past -14 to die. which i was fine with.what i was not fine with is the party dropping what they where doing in combat to try and save my dead ass. i was telling them to finish of the ogres.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

By the rules, 5 foot steps do not provoke AoOs and you die when you get to negative con hp, not when you pass it. Your GM is of course free to houserules those, but you may wish to inform them what the actual written rules are.

Beyond that, did you have some sort of question or reason for posting this?


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, if you're surrounded by 3 ogres, I doubt 5' stepping anywhere is going to save you.

Grand Lodge

I think the OP has a gripe about the fact that there are no facing rules (something I enjoyed with GURPS) and you can attack or be attacked regardless of which direction you or the monster is facing.

Odd that the GM missed the 5 foot rule though... should have been no aoo's....


Hard to tell exactly what was going on in the above scenario.


I've had quite a few players effectively suicide by charging INTO a group of ogres to take them on solo.


_Ozy_ wrote:
Hard to tell exactly what was going on in the above scenario.

I think it's something like this:

OP was surrounded by 3 Ogres. One of the Ogres was between them and an ally, engaged in combat with said ally. They took a 5 foot step which the GM mistakenly had provoke AoO's and OP (who must have come from another version of the game) thought facing rules would come into effect which they didn't. Then OP attacked. After that, OP was hit by 2 of the 3 Ogres and died by hitting their Con limit (I guess the character had 14 con).


Yeah, but why take a 5' step at all? If you're surrounded by 3 large Ogre's, each with 10' reach, a 5' step will likely do very little to improve your tactical situation. Also, it wasn't until after the OP attacked and the Ogres attacked again on their turn that he died, so if he was that hurting, he should have bugged out on his turn instead of attacking.

Again, without seeing the layout, it's hard to tell for sure.

Paizo Employee Managing Editor

Another potential wrinkle is that the Beginner Box rules don't use attacks of opportunity—though of course the GM may have imported it from the full version of the game.


It's possible OP didn't actually mean "5-foot step the miscellaneous action" but a move action to move more than 5 ft, assuming he was fine due to facing and in the first 5 ft of movement, got smacked by an AoO.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

(I'm assuming that the OP isn't playing the Beginner Box. Moved to general forum.)


the ogre that got the AoO was facing away from my pc beating on the party rogue and in that split 6 seconds he had enough time to notice while beating the rogue the guy trying to get pass him away from his brothers. and no i did not charge into a group of ogres solo for glory i play a panicky alchemist. those ogres ambushed us and charged into our group. i just "happened" to be surrounded and trapped.

(thanks for the move i don't know what i was thinking)

every time i sat down for the game my character has almost been killed to death. killed to death = knocked below 0 hp teasingly close to con death. i am getting close to suspecting that my DM is out for my PC's blood....>.> more then his other player. i created a support dps alchemist character that my DM is treating as the party's barbarian.


but heres hoping that my DM will stop since i had a talk with him.


The ogre getting an AoO while fighting someone else is a normal thing in the rules if the AoO was legitimately provoked.


I agree that it is weird that someone who seems to distracted and busy in combat finds the time to sneak in an AoO against a by-passer. But it is fully rules legal.

What I find to be most strange about the situation is how they got into their positioning. I mean, didn't you notice them before they charged into you? How did they surround you if they charged into your group?


The only thing wrong with the scenario is that if you actually only took a 5ft step it wouldn't have provoked.

But otherwise you were surrounded by ogres and thought you should fight them being an alchemist (i.e. fairly squishy). You should have used a full round action to withdraw and just GTFO. I agree here, the only thing that is a little odd is how you ended up surrounded by the ogres instead of having other more resilient melee members of the party to stand in front and take the blows.

If you are the only resident melee character, then that would be your problem. You're trying to use an alchemist as a front line melee character.


If you're an Alchemist that is insisting on getting yourself into untenable melee situations, consider picking up some more survival-focused discoveries and feats, like lingering spirit and diehard.

Seems like the bigger issue is learning when you've overextended and knowing when to cut your losses. While a 5' step shouldn't have provoked, you'd have been clobbered the following turn anyway. A full-round withdraw, as Claxon suggested, would have been the wise play.


well i don't know what to say. that is what happened and the safest way out looked like sneaking pass the the ogre with his back to me distracted while fighting. once i was hit by the AoO i knew i was going to be taken out next round and if i tried to get away i would be killed that round my best option would have been to take out one of the ogres so i would not take so much dmg and die. and die i did anyways but my character is still alive somehow.so it was die while screaming like a girl or die while putting arrows into my Pc's murders


yes i know alchemists are squishy and i know alchemists are ranged combatants because they are so squishy.


It's not that they're squishy, it's just that if you're going to go full melee, you need to invest in some survival-based abilities is all. My vivisectionist has high Con, Toughness, Diehard, Lingering Spirit, Preserve Organs, Mummification, and makes liberal use of longarm and ablative barrier (which turns damage to nonlethal, which he doesn't take because he's immune to nonlethal.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Claxon wrote:


But otherwise you were surrounded by ogres and thought you should fight them being an alchemist (i.e. fairly squishy). You should have used a full round action to withdraw and just GTFO. I agree here, the only thing that is a little odd is how you ended up surrounded by the ogres instead of having other more resilient melee members of the party to stand in front and take the blows.

I have seen this happen lots of times with striker type characters. Typical scenario is that they'll acrobat/stealth/charge into a middle of a group of ogres, leaving their parties behind, thinking they'll be taking them down with one/two maneuvers.

Many of them get either badly mauled, or badly dead before the encounter ends.


I think there was a FAQ saying you take an AoO when 5 foot stepping into a creature's space. But I dont think that's what's being described here.


Melkiador wrote:
I think there was a FAQ saying you take an AoO when 5 foot stepping into a creature's space. But I dont think that's what's being described here.

In one of those cases I mentioned, the aforementioned solo striker attempted to acrobat his way when surrounded, forgetting that the CMD increases with each creature threathening the same space.

Not that it really mattered with the roll he got. The consequences were..... unpleasant.

The Exchange

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
I think there was a FAQ saying you take an AoO when 5 foot stepping into a creature's space. But I dont think that's what's being described here.

In one of those cases I mentioned, the aforementioned solo striker attempted to acrobat his way when surrounded, forgetting that the CMD increases with each creature threathening the same space.

Not that it really mattered with the roll he got. The consequences were..... unpleasant.

do you use the one roll VS all, or separate rolls for each?


Jeff Morse wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
I think there was a FAQ saying you take an AoO when 5 foot stepping into a creature's space. But I dont think that's what's being described here.

In one of those cases I mentioned, the aforementioned solo striker attempted to acrobat his way when surrounded, forgetting that the CMD increases with each creature threathening the same space.

Not that it really mattered with the roll he got. The consequences were..... unpleasant.

do you use the one roll VS all, or separate rolls for each?

Separate rolls for each, with a cumulative +2 DC to each roll after the first.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / General Discussion / facing is not a thing in pathfinder and con nagative health All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002-2017 Paizo Inc.® | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours, Monday through Friday, 10:00 AM to 5:00 PM Pacific time.

Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, Starfinder, the Starfinder logo, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc. The Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Legends, Pathfinder Online, Starfinder Adventure Path, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.