Your relationship with the ACG classes, almost 2 years later.


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Icehawk wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

On the other hand, www.d20pfsrd.com is easier to search -- the Google-powered Search function usually works, whereas I have NEVER gotten the Archives of Nethys Search function to work (it just sits there for an extremely long time and then either comes up with no results or an error). (This is unless they have fixed something in the last few days.)

Are you clicking the little buttons below telling it where to search? If you don't, it does that. Learned that the hard way.

I was, and the non-response or error that I got when using them was different from the "Nothing found for those search terms" that it gives if you forget to do that.

- - - - - - - - BUT - - - - - - - -

For some weird reason, even though I am doing nothing different, all of a sudden it works! The Search page also looks somewhat different now than the last time I tried it (I think a couple of weeks to a month ago), so maybe something was fixed, despite the apparent lack of updates since May 10, 2016.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

I hadn't posted my thoughts yet on most of these classes that I haven't gotten to actual play yet, so here goes:

Arcanist: I like the hybrid spellcasting and the provision of a decent number of class features, and wish they came out with a divine equivalent (although admittedly it would be tricky to balance). (I would have also said Psychic equivalent, but so far, Psychic has no prepared casters at all.) Would have liked to see more decent Greater Exploits -- one of the guides even says to just snag Greater Metamagic Knowledge when you can and then go back to picking up basic Exploits.

Bloodrager: A solid eldritch martial class. As I noted in a previous post, surprisingly good for a dip, but one could do some pretty cool and effective builds with single-class Bloodrager as well. The Primalist archetype, if allowed at all (last time I checked, in PFS it isn't) should probably have a limit of 1 substitution total.

Brawler: Not terribly excited about this, but it isn't awful either. Martial Flexibility is nice, but I wish that this had been rolled into the options for Fighter (without requiring a specific archetype -- for instance, maybe make it a Close Weapons Advanced Weapon Training option). Exemplar Brawler VMC Cavalier is a decent (fastest although not most powerful) option for single (actually 1+1/2) class entry into Battle Herald.

Hunter: With classes as they are now, this looks it does what it advertises: Fills a niche between Druid and Ranger. I think the developers might have overcompensated for the risk of Animal Companion loss, though: Some builds that include Hunter depend upon the death of the Animal Companion to apply the compensating powers to the Hunter long-term. This ability should have probably gotten a time limit. What I REALLY would have liked to see would be a rebuild of the Druid as a 6/9 spellcaster with some Hunter features blended in, but that would have needed to be done in the initial development of Pathfinder (or in the future as a Pathfinder 2.0).

Investigator: This is like being a Rogue that is actually powerful. once you get to 4th level, and even the levels before that aren't bad. Thematically, it is also an Alchemist whose abilities aren't so dangerous to the user, and I can certainly get onboard with that.

Shaman: From guides I have read, builds I have seen, and hours of study spread over many weeks, I think I finally have this class more or less figured out, and the idea of how to do interesting things with it, but WHY did they have to make it so convoluted? As I posted above, I don't know off the top of my head how to fix it, but something needs to be done. I wouldn't mind a Shaman Unchained just for usability purposes, even if it didn't add any more power or new options. I would have also liked to see an Oracle-Witch hybrid that is different from the Shaman that opens up the full range of Witch Hexes and uses spontaneous casting; maybe this could be done as a Shaman archetype, but I hate to think of how convoluted that is likely to come out, so it might be better to do it as a Witch archetype or Oracle archetype even if it means an overall power reduction, just to be more user-friendly.

Skald: Does what it advertises: Lets you be a heavy metal Bard. But consult with the rest of your party before starting your build, to make sure your abilities are actually going to help most of them. If your abilities could help only a small subset, consider the Savage Skald Bard archetype instead -- probably less powerful overall, but better at certain specific things, including being able to inspire Rage that can activate Rage Powers and the like without needing to be 20th level.

Slayer: As posted above, suffers from feat starvation for being a full martial, but maybe I've been trying to cram too much into it, so I want to give Lemmy's build posted above (or some variation) thereof a shot.

Swashbuckler: Seems rather weak; following a PbP that has one, Swashbucklers seem to have a hard time dealing out decent damage (at least in the low levels) and are easily taken down; their Saves are Rogue-bad (for a primary melee class, should have at least gotten good Fortitude), and as far as I can tell, Swashbuckler Weapon Training doesn't count as Weapon Training for feat prerequisites (Swashbucklers would be better if they could access Advanced Weapon Training). Swashbuckler sure can be handy for a dip for a Finesse build, although it's competing with Unchained Rogue for this. Speaking of which, Rogue, Slayer, and Swashbuckler and maybe ven Ranger should have probably been hybridized into one class, although the relative publication timing just wasn't right for this.

Warpriest: With the classes as they are, Warpriest seems partially redundant to the standard Cleric. On the other hand, a blend of Warpriest and Inquisitor is how the Cleric should have originally been built, leaving 9/9 spellcasting to a d6, 1/2 BAB Priest class like the one from Adamant Entertainment, but adding more interesting class features, including rebuilding Domains like mini-Mysteries. (Again this gets into Pathfinder 2.0 territory.) Warpriest is NOT a Paladin of any alignment -- for that, you need a Paladin of any alignment . . . And Paladin should have been a prestige class anyway, like a hybrid of Hellknight with the D&D 3.5 Unearthed Arcana Prestige Paladin (or the Kirthfinder Prestige Paladin -- see Kirthfinder documents linked from this thread).

Advanced Class Guide archetypes of non-ACG classes: Exploiter Wizard is what you want if you want a Universalist Wizard, unless you are aiming for the Arclord of Nex prestige class. Would have liked to see an analogous Sorcerer archetype with some Arcanist features blended in (that is, a Sorcerer-Arcanist hybrid coming from the Sorcerer side to complement the Blood Arcanist, like Exploiter Wizard complements the School Savant Arcanist). Instead, we got the Eldritch Scrapper, which hybridizes in Brawler, but does so in a way that just doesn't work (it replaces too much for what you get, including the 9th level Bloodline Power that you would need to make it good). This should have probably been a Magus archetype. Instead, the Magus archetype we got that uses spontaneous casting just doesn't work very well, and doesn't work in the place where you really need it, which is in combination with the Elemental Knight archetype specific to Suli (who have an Intelligence penalty and Charisma bonus, as well as a Strength bonus).

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