What trait gives you proficiency with light shields as shields?
The Shield-Trained trait gives you proficiency with light and heavy shields as simple instead of martial weapons. Bucklers generally cannot be used as weapons at all.
I'm pretty sure swoosh is talking about the Regional Recluse trait.
A buckler is a shield. As is a light shield and a heavy shield. All three are covered within the shield proficiency feat. Light and Heavy shields can be used as martial weapons when making a shield bash attack. Having them treated as Simple weapons will only help a person who does not gain Martial Weapon or Shield Proficiencies from their class or feat gains. For example, a Sorcerer is only proficient with Simple Weapons and not proficient with any type of armor or shields. If the sorcerer had this trait, he would be proficient with Bucklers, Light Shields and Heavy Shields. In addition, treating them as Simple Weapons instead of Martial he would not take the Non-proficiency penalty when making a shield bash attack since Sorcerers are proficient with All Simple Weapons. Bucklers cannot make a shield bash attack. Treating a Heavy Shield as a Light Shield will only help with Two-Weapon Fighting where light shields are treated as Light Weapons and reduces the penalty while wielding two weapons.
A buckler is a shield. As is a light shield and a heavy shield. All three are covered within the shield proficiency feat. Light and Heavy shields can be used as martial weapons when making a shield bash attack. Having them treated as Simple weapons will only help a person who does not gain Martial Weapon or Shield Proficiencies from their class or feat gains. For example, a Sorcerer is only proficient with Simple Weapons and not proficient with any type of armor or shields. If the sorcerer had this trait, he would be proficient with Bucklers, Light Shields and Heavy Shields. In addition, treating them as Simple Weapons instead of Martial he would not take the Non-proficiency penalty when making a shield bash attack since Sorcerers are proficient with All Simple Weapons. Bucklers cannot make a shield bash attack. Treating a Heavy Shield as a Light Shield will only help with Two-Weapon Fighting where light shields are treated as Light Weapons and reduces the penalty while wielding two weapons.
Just to be clear, having Shield Proficiency doesn't give you weapon proficiency in shields, so Clerics/Bards/etc would benefit from something to make them count as Simple Weapons also.
True. What I was saying was that class is proficient with all Simple Weapons... that trait treats shields as simple weapons, therefore giving that character weapon proficiency shields (All Simple Weapons) as well as Shield Proficiency.
Well... it IS harder to use bucklers than light shields.
Bucklers are small, and focused. Meant to be used rather actively, going right against the opponent's weapon. But larger shields can be a bit more passive, if only due to the area they cover.
True. What I was saying was that class is proficient with all Simple Weapons... that trait treats shields as simple weapons, therefore giving that character weapon proficiency shields (All Simple Weapons) as well as Shield Proficiency.
You were using Sorcerers as an example, but they don't get Shield Proficiency. And the Shield Trained Trait doesn't grant Shield Proficiency either. So a Sorcerer with that trait would be able to use heavy or light shields as weapons without any non-proficiency penalties, but they would still incur non-proficiency penalties if they used those shields defensively.
I see. I was under the impression that the trait gave proficiency as well.
I always thought buckler use was the sly way to use shields without proficiency?
If you eliminate the armor check penalty (MW buckler for instance), you do eliminate any non-proficiency penalty.
If you eliminate the armor check penalty (MW buckler for instance), you do eliminate any non-proficiency penalty.
Yes, but the feats swoosh wants actually require proficiency.