Dealing with a player who threatens to party-ditch.


Advice

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Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
Secondly, when you have a player pull this crap, you need to—~need to~—throw it right back in his or her face. Making pointedly anti-party choices is never acceptable because the they would replace the offending character as soon as possible.
Umm...
Akharus wrote:
If someone walks out after a snitfit - assume DM control of their character and use them as an NPC as close to their intended personality as you can for the rest of the adventure. Basically they become a free cohort.
That's a bit...
Rub-Eta wrote:
Talk to him a final time. Make sure that he understands that he is ruining the fun by being like this. If he can't understand that he needs to bite the bullet when he thinks that he's treated unfair: Kick him from the party (and make sure that he's aware that this is what will happen if he doesn't stop).
Don't you think you are being a bit...
Steve Geddes wrote:
This really is a playing attitude issue, not a character build issue anyhow. It doesn't really matter whether you're good or bad relative to the other PCs and relative to the campaign challenges. Storming off when you don't get your way isn't conducive to other people's fun so it shouldn't be tolerated long term (unless your group is really, really forgiving of such behaviour, but it doesn't sound like it from the aftermath).

OK. That is enough. What did the player even DO that was wrong? Refuse to follow a plan that his character believed was suicide? As a player who has been put into his situation alot of times he frankly made a perfectly valid choice. God knows i have left enough games because the party refuses to listen to reason and because the GM rules that "Since more people want to do X you are doing X". Well EX-CUSE ME SIR, i didn't realize my character's actions were the jurisdiction of a democracy. Just because the party votes to take a certain course of action does NOT mean that a person is required to follow it, and he frankly took about the LEAST disruptive method of dealing with it he could (That is, just walking away instead of trying to cause trouble).

So why do you think he should be booted or ultimatum'd for taking the least disruptive course of action he could in the face of being forced to make an action that he honestly did not want to follow through with. I mean, if i were in his shoes i would have done something very similar (probably only just heading back to the nearest safe room instead of heading into the wastes though.) because it seemed that the party's choice was very likely to end in their death.

Whether or not the character is strong or not isn't the point, its that it was HIS decision whether he would have gone through with what the party had tried to force on him.

Anguish wrote:
1} What a character would do in-character, and how a player behaves shouldn't be linked. That the rogue was outvoted and might abandon the party is not unrealistic. Life & death decisions are serious. That the player abandoned the table and went to sleep is an entirely different thing.

At least SOMEONE else here has been reasonable and tried to see it from his point of view as well.


Hazrond wrote:
Taku Ooka Nin wrote:
Secondly, when you have a player pull this crap, you need to—~need to~—throw it right back in his or her face. Making pointedly anti-party choices is never acceptable because the they would replace the offending character as soon as possible.
Umm...
Akharus wrote:
If someone walks out after a snitfit - assume DM control of their character and use them as an NPC as close to their intended personality as you can for the rest of the adventure. Basically they become a free cohort.
That's a bit...
Rub-Eta wrote:
Talk to him a final time. Make sure that he understands that he is ruining the fun by being like this. If he can't understand that he needs to bite the bullet when he thinks that he's treated unfair: Kick him from the party (and make sure that he's aware that this is what will happen if he doesn't stop).
Don't you think you are being a bit...
Steve Geddes wrote:
This really is a playing attitude issue, not a character build issue anyhow. It doesn't really matter whether you're good or bad relative to the other PCs and relative to the campaign challenges. Storming off when you don't get your way isn't conducive to other people's fun so it shouldn't be tolerated long term (unless your group is really, really forgiving of such behaviour, but it doesn't sound like it from the aftermath).
OK. That is enough. What did the player even DO that was wrong? Refuse to follow a plan that his character believed was suicide? As a player who has been put into his situation alot of times he frankly made a perfectly valid choice. God knows i have left enough games because the party refuses to listen to reason and because the GM rules that "Since more people want to do X you are doing X". Well EX-CUSE ME SIR, i didn't realize my character's actions were the jurisdiction of a democracy. Just because the party votes to take a certain course of action does NOT mean that a person is required to follow it, and he frankly took about the LEAST disruptive...

In my mind, what he did wrong was to go to sleep and just refuse to play anymore despite the fact the session was still going.

I have no problem with him deciding his character wanders off from everyone else, but (from the OP's description) he stopped the game by souring the mood and ostentatiously rage-quitting.

Obviously, we've only heard one side, but to be very clear it's the Out-Of-Character antics that are an issue, in my view. Nothing to do with his character wanting to do something different from everyone else.

The fact it has happened repeatedly, with many different campaigns also suggests to me it's a problem with the group dynamic not with the specific character. (Though that doesn't mean the player has done something wrong - he just might not be a good fit for the group).


Hazrond wrote:
So why do you think he should be booted or ultimatum'd for taking the least disruptive course of action he could in the face of being forced to make an action that he honestly did not want to follow through with. I mean, if i were in his shoes i would have done something very similar (probably only just heading back to the nearest safe room instead of heading into the wastes though.) because it seemed that the party's choice was very likely to end in their death.

The choices he made in character aren't an issue, in my mind. (He may find it boring and it may make things tougher for the party, but I don't inherently have a problem with that).

It's the storming off and going to sleep mid-session. That's controlling and really quite selfish behavior, in my view. If he's unhappy with the game he should quit or he should talk to the DM and the rest of the group about exactly what he's not getting.


First and foremost, you should talk to the person in private and try to understand where he is coming from. Try to have an open dialogue and not use confrontational language.

Now when that doesn't work, and short of booting the player (as you originally asked for), ...

You could also have fun with it and create/maintain an alternate version of his character. Everytime he rage quits, ala Mr. Hyde, everyone laughs when you pull out the Dr. Jekyll character sheet and continue on. When he returns, you let him play Mr. Hyde again and let him know what his new equipment list / item uses / ability uses are down to.

Hopefully this person will eventually get the message that it isn't all about himself, especially when his attention getting actions stop affecting the rest of the party.


The question is not should you boot him.

He already walked out.

The question is do you allow him back in?

GM Requirements of Drama Queen:
1) No rage-quitting the session. He is there to play with friends, and abandoning them mid session ruins everyone's fun.
2) If he does not agree with the party, his character is allowed to go off by itself, but suffers the consequences of being by itself. That is, more easily killed by wandering patrols, random monsters, etc.
3) Acknowledgement that the game is a co-operative game, not one that you "win".

If he agrees to this, allow him back in, but on probation. If he cannot stay in bounds, then he will be uninvited to further gaming sessions.

/cevah


I'd like to see the OP update us. I'm curious I suppose


Let me start with I agree with what most people have already said. He either learns that everyone gets a chance to shine or he gets booted.

That said I wanted to respond to this:

GM Rednal wrote:
(And no, Rogues are not particularly strong. As your levels keep getting higher, this is going to start showing.)

I think you'd be surprised, things have changed a bit since Unchained came out. I don't two weapon fight because I'd destroy encounters with my 11th level rogue in PFS. All you need is Canny Tumble, Circling Mongoose, and a menacing weapon. Your first attack the monster is denied DEX and you get a +2, if you hit (and why wouldn't you?) every attack after that is flanking (which is +4 with menacing) and you knock their AC down 6 points with Debilitating Injury, that means your iterative attacks have a higher to hit bonus than your first attack...which means you rarely miss. 4 attacks x 6d6 sneak attack = 24d6 = an average of 84 damage just in sneak attack dice. Add in Dex to damage and a high crit weapon like Kukri, and yeah Rogue's can be pretty tough.

On top of that you have a ton of skill points, the opportunity for some really handy utility abilities.


Based on this paragraph from the OP, why is anyone even suggesting talking to the guy when he has yet to change his ways after the issues have been raised multiple times? He's done the same before, he has individual goals not aligned even remotely with the party goals in a game which is a cooperative one, he has anger issues, no one is having fun and don't want to continue.

Just contact the rest of the group and arrange the next game session. Tell them the problem player is not being invited back and you can all continue the campaign. If the problem player contacts you just tell him his play style does not match the group's and he is no longer welcome.

The game is meant to be fun for all involved. Don't waste your time trying to fix things with someone who continually makes it not fun.

OP wrote:
This player... does this. This was my first time GMing, but I've played with him in other games and other systems, and he's threatened to ditch the party when people don't follow his plans at least once per game (He's got other problems too. His characters are always better than everyone else's by a lot, they always have a long-term goal of assassinating the most important NPC around and usurping their power, and he always gets really angrily dramatic about being 'completely useless' when another PC comes across an encounter that's suited to making them shine). The other players (when they've been GMing their own games) have talked to him about his problems, but it doesn't seem like it's doing anything, and I'm sure as heck not just going to sit idly by. People were having fun, and then with one sentence he made a game crash and burn. Now nobody wants to go back to it, and I don't really feel like I want to run or play any more games with him in them.

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