ChaosTicket |
Im working down a list of complex characters to make and a Druid is next on my list.
Compared to a Cleric, the druid is more complex so harder to play due to additional limitations, and is heavily reliant on picking good animal forms.
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Stats: Druid require wisdom in all types, strength, dexterity, and constitution are also necessary especially for using wild shape.
Weapons: very limited, any Race weapon proficiencies such as Half-orc Great Axe/Falchion or Elf Composite Longbow are big improvements.
Armor: limited to Leather light and medium hide armor by default. Does not have shield proficiency. Dragonhide special material was designed to allow Druid to use more effective armor.
Spellcasting: Druid is a Divine Caster, but lacks some key spells, namely buffing ones. Im wondering if there are any better spells than Cleric?
Beast Shape: Not immediately available. Provides some none-scaling bonuses, but not large ones. Changing sizes alters the bonuses and different sizes cause natural changes, such as larger sizes having attack penalties and being easier to hit. Also, armor and weapons get "turned off" when transformed, except for the Goliath Druid archetype. Some forms are clearly much better than others.
Domains: May have one domain granting one specific bonus spell slot each tier, additional special abilities OR an animal companion.
Archetypes: Several interesting ones, though strangely they dont add proficiencies to weapons or armor.
Early Levels: you have few spells, no Wild Shape, very limited weapons and armor. Pretty much a survival challenge.
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I think I understand the appeal of a Druid in animal form using Natural Spell Feat to cast spells while shapeshifted and some forms having multiple attacks at full Base attack Bonus, move speed increase, and special abilties. Staying in animal form whenever possible is key.
I dont understand what the transforms states are supposed to do with low AC. "Glass Hammer" is the phase I believe.
DethBySquirl |
Druids, for the most part, aren't really intended to be "tanks". Depending on your focus, they're usually either controllers (with battlefield control and summons) or strikers (with wild shape and animal companions).
Also, don't underestimate your animal forms, especially once you get stuff like Natural Spell. Druids have some decent buffs, like Barkskin, and being able to hang out as a tiger or a bear or whatever for hours at a time and being able to buff yourself without leaving your form gives you some great flexibility and makes your relatively weak armor and weapon options largely irrelevant. You're generally either hanging back and casting spells, or turning into a tiger and/or tag teaming with your animal companion and pouncing at things.
The Pathfinder druid isn't quite 3.x levels of broken, but it's still a very strong class, albeit not quite as straightforward as a lot of clerics are.
Paradozen |
Some important things to note:
Druids are their own breed of spellcaster. They don't buff and heal like most divine casters, they instead have a list focused on many versatile options. If you are a caster type druid look forward to summon options, battlefield conteol, buffing an animal companion, and occasionally blasting. Healing is for wands and buffing is for bards.
Wild Shape isn't only a combat option. If you are a melee druid its a great combat option because many buffs add making a lethal battle tiger. If you are a caster druid go down, not up, in size. At around level 8 you can be a bat, with huge bonuses to AC, flight, blindsense, and a slew of spells to shoot. But out of combat is where this shines brightest. Being a mouse is amazing for scouting, with a huge stealth and if you are caught nothing happens. Being a bird means you can fly up and retrieve anything iut of reach. Being an earth elemental means you can scout indoors without opening doors. The only limit is imagination.
AC is less of a problem than you think. At low levels lamellar leather is nice for most situations, and later barkskin+dragonhide armor is great. In wildshape buy barding for your favorite combat form and a bag of holding for your favorite barding. You can keep up just fine.
Don't spread yourself out too much. I would recommend either pumping wisdom and focusing on battlefield control, blasts, and summons or grabbing high strength and moderate wisdom and focusing on melee. The former is better IMO because you can play a mage (you) and a fighter (animal companion) in the same game. But the latter is certainly appealing considering how high the strength buffs tend to get.
ChaosTicket |
I know forms usually split between high natural armor 'tank" forms with few attacks(with secondary attack penalty) and powerful melee forms with multiple attacks at full BAB, but low natural armor.
I know of some magic items that work very well with shapeshifted druid, but some conflict heavily. Neck slot has both Natural armor(defense) and mighty fists(offense).
I see alot of "junk" spells among for the druid. there arent as many straight up powerful buffs, and unfortunately little scaling. The nature spells are often really specific.
Paradozen |
I know forms usually split between high natural armor 'tank" forms with few attacks(with secondary attack penalty) and powerful melee forms with multiple attacks at full BAB, but low natural armor.
I know of some magic items that work very well with shapeshifted druid, but some conflict heavily. Neck slot has both Natural armor(defense) and mighty fists(offense).
I see alot of "junk" spells among for the druid. there arent as many straight up powerful buffs, and unfortunately little scaling. The nature's spells are often really specific.
On the topic of magic item slots, I would forgo the amulet of natural armor in favor of barkskin. It scales with level, lasts a long time (prep it twice and buy an extend rod, and we are talking 6 hours at 9th level).
As for junk spells, there are simply a lot of junk spells for everyone. The trick is to seek the great spells. If you like I could prepare a list of my favorites but again, buffs aren't a druid's strong point. Animal Growth, Strongjaw and Greater Magic Fang work for your animal, and stoneskin can save lives, but otherwise I would play a cleric or bard if you want to buff. Druid just isn't built for that.
Blave |
Weapons: very limited, any Race weapon proficiencies such as Half-orc Great Axe/Falchion or Elf Composite Longbow are big improvements.
Armor: limited to Leather light and medium hide armor by default. Does not have shield proficiency. Dragonhide special material was designed to allow Druid to use more effective armor.
I think you underestimate the proficiencies. Druids CAN use shields (just not metal shields).
As for weapons, the only things they lack are reach and ranged weapons. For basic melee, they got both a good one-handed weapon (Scimitar) and a pretty decent two-handed weapon (Scythe, better than any simple weapon). And that's not even counting shillelagh, which is a pretty good "buff" for low level druids.
Personally, I think the druid's weapon proficiencies are better than a cleric's (ignoring his dieties favored weapon). The only thing I'd miss is a reach weapon. I was rather surprised to see that they don't get longspears.
ChaosTicket |
I think you underestimate the proficiencies. Druids CAN use shields (just not metal shields).
As for weapons, the only things they lack are reach and ranged weapons. For basic melee, they got both a good one-handed weapon (Scimitar) and a pretty decent two-handed weapon (Scythe, better than any simple weapon). And that's not even counting shillelagh, which is a pretty good "buff" for low level druids.
Personally, I think the druid's weapon proficiencies are better than a cleric's (ignoring his dieties favored weapon). The only thing I'd miss is a reach weapon. I was rather surprised to see that they don't get longspears.
Oh so they can. A heavy wooden shield can help alot early on.
However that is an understatement in regards to weapons. A Composite Longbow is the gold standard of ranged weapons, and the druid is stuck with the inferior Sling. Losing use in all reach weapons and so many powerful weapons. The Scimitar is for a crit build, and it doesnt work with Shillelagh, so its not that good to start with and by the time you make it more effective Wild Shape is much more useful.
Shillelagh is surprisingly powerful, and a big crutch for early games. Bull's strength also gives a nice buff.
Barkskin is reserved for wild shape, or using a feat/racial ability to have a passive armor. Dwarves and Half-orcs can use Ironhide feat with 13 constitution so another reason for them as race.
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See Im already learning alot. There are some incompatibilities in the Druids's abilities, but also feats that can remove them.
Im still looking for a solution to the lower armor problem.
pulseoptional |
Step one: Be a Halfling.
Step two: Roll up a Goliath Druid.
Step three: Ride around your dino mount, slinging doom from above.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
In 3.5, I played an elf druid archer from level 1 to 16 (the DM moved away).
At 1st level, I was so poor, I didn't buy a backpack because it would have bankrupted me and I would then not have any stuff to put in it.
But the reason I was so poor was because I had a shortbow. And after a level or two of treasure, a masterwork long composite longbow. And eventually a +3 longbow and a +1 flaming, shocking longbow.
My druid was very versatile. I could battlefield control, blast, buff, counterspell (I actually took the Improved Counterspell feat and would trade out 4th level flamestrikes for enemy rakshasa fireballs), face (Diplomacy was a 3.5 class skill), grapple, heal, sail (1 rank in Profession sailor was extremely useful!), scout (Elf + super high Wisdom + maxed Listen/Spot (3.5) and/or wildshaped into tiny bird/snake/naked mole rat), shoot, summon, tank (longsword & shield or wildshaped), track, transport (via animal shapes or tree stride or just wildshaping into a flying mount).
Plus my druid had a dog. With barding, she had the highest AC in the party--and the fighter had full plate and shield!. That, combined with Spring Attack, meant she rarely got hurt (honestly, I went through 4 or 5 animal companions: Gorsedd, Blue, one session with a loaner tiger from an NPC druid, Betty, and Spike. Orc great axe crits are deadly!). The dog was mostly used to trip NPCs. Only 1 or 2 bite attacks, so it didn't use too much "face time" on my turn. I was even able to keep most of my summoned nature's allies pretty organized and relatively quick to run.
And I only used the thoqqua trick once against my DM.
ChaosTicket |
Well what animal companions are strongest in whatever they do?
Barding I know is a bit different from animal companions. anything but light armor gives a significant penalty to speed, and the price gets multiplied. Also proficiency mean alot of wasted feats. You would have a turtle pet. Give a tiger full plate is very impractical.
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Summoning seems potentially powerful. They start out useless because of 1 round duration. Later on more powerful summoned creatures are available, they last a great deal longer, and there are feats to improve the power of your creatures. Spell Focus(conjuration), augment summon, and superior summon give you stronger and more numerous allies.
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The lack of practical powers and equipment early on is a serious issue. I do wonder if taking 1 level in Fighter and then retraining later is wise?
Statwise, which is more important for a balanced druid, dexterity or constitution?
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
In 3.5, creatures "trained for war" got Light Armor Proficiency as a bonus feat. One of the reasons I selected a wardog. Also, I like dogs.
My wardog had Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack, and Spring Attack. (In 3.5, you only got feats at level 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.)
Summoning is powerful. It acts as a force multiplier and battlefield control, and at higher levels, a lot of your summoned beasties have cool powers they can do for you. For example, the unicorn can heal. It also helps to learn the languages your summoned nature's allies speak, like Sylvan, Aquan, Auran, Ignan, and Terran.
Feats used to improve your summoning can be very useful. Also consider Extend Spell. It can double to duration of your summons and a lot of your buff spells (barkskin, greater magic fang, longstrider, etc.). A rod of extend spell is a key piece of equipment for a druid.
Dipping in ranger or barbarian might be more flavorful than taking a level in fighter. A raging wildshaped anything is scary! Especially once you can buff with animal growth, bull's strength, and greater magic fang.
Constitution is probably more important than Dexterity. There are lots of ways to get bonuses to AC and ranged/finesse attack rolls, but there are fewer ways to get more hit points. That said, I played a Dexterity-based druid elf archer and he was very fun. He took Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot as his first two feats, so he was able to combine them with produce flame. At 9th level, I was making 3 ranged touch attacks per round (+11/+11/+6) for 1d6+6 each 3 rounds, all for a 1st level spell.
If you plan on doing more melee, dipping a level in barbarian or some other class that gives you a reach weapon and taking Combat Reflexes and Power Attack can be really useful. At low levels, you'll follow the tactics of a Reach Cleric (using your standard action to cast (or full-round to summon), and relying on AoOs to get free attacks). At higher levels when you fight in wildshaped form, you can still use Combat Reflexes and Power Attack. Lots of large forms have reach. Power Attack is a fun feat to use when charging, too, since the +2 for charging helps mitigate the penalty for using Power Attack, and using Power Attack helps mitigate the reduced damage for not getting a full attack.
Unless you can pounce.
Deighton Thrane |
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Well what animal companions are strongest in whatever they do?
We could have an entire thread dedicated to that question. But what's more important than knowing what companion is good at what role is knowing that companions jump in power at level 4 and 7, so that depending on the level you're currently at, an animal companion could either be really good, or pretty mediocre, and that upgrading your animal companion at these levels is usually the optimal thing to do.
Here is a site with a really in depth comparison of different animal companions strength based on a number of stats. It's not the be all, end all source for what animal companion you should choose, but it's a great start. Personally I went with stegosaurus, ape, tiger and then wolf for my PFS druid, and the stegosaurus performed admirably, as did the ape, tiger was actually pretty mediocre, and wolf came after retraining into the feather domain, so it's mostly there for show. At level 15-16, unless you put resources into your animal companion, they're likely to be little more than a speed bump for enemies.
Also, depending on the campaign, having a dog, horse or camel can be invaluable, simply because you don't have to convince the town guard your animal friend isn't going to go berserk in the middle of town. That's not so easy with an allosaurus.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
If you really want martial weapons and heavy armor proficiency, then fighter or cavalier might be a good dip class. Cavalier has more skill points and you can use the Teamwork feat with your animal companion; fighter gives you the option to use a Tower Shield (and the option almost everyone selects, which is to not use a Tower Shield!) and an bonus Combat feat.
MidknightTopaz |
All of the "animal buff" spells you can cast on your pet, you can cast on yourself in Wild Shape if you have Natural Spell. You can actually tank if that's what you are going for, as any creature (Including Elementals and Plants) that you can Wild Shape into, so long as you know how to work your character and the choice you made. I suggest you make yourself a little booklet with all of your Wild Shape choices in it, with sections on what your stats will be if you are buffed by Strong Jaw, Magic Fang Greater - Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace... etc... Also, I do believe as a druid, you have access to a Scythe. That's a Really nasty weapon option and you don't really need a reach weapon after a while if you can reach in Wild Shape form, anyways. I say read, and read very carefully, all the spell options, you might actually find even more combinations that can boost your abilities, and pairing them with fog spells, can be very effective in leveling the field between druid and cleric.
Blave |
I really want access to reach weapons and the composite longbow.
Why?
I mean, unless you go for a full ranged or reach build, you really don't need either.
Ranged: You can use a sling (or throw daggers or darts) for ranged attacks early on. At later levels, you'll be either casting spells or ripping things to shred in wildshape
Reach: Wildshape -> Quickwood -> 60 ft reach. Yes, it comes late (level 12) but that's just the extreme case. There's plenty of wild shapes early on and many of them are better at melee than your humanoid form.
Rached weapons and composite longbows are great but with a versatile class like the druid, you really don't need either. If you want to play an elf druid anyway, you might as well use the bow but I would not waste a feat, dip a level or take a subpar race just to get those proficiencies. Chances are, you'll be to busy doing other stuff (casting, summoning, pouncing) to use your weapon once you leave the eary levels.
Dracoknight |
Honestly profs' arent going to be a issue for you.
For reach, you have the Long spear ( pretty sure thats a simple weapon ) for ranged you have Produce fire ( light source + ranged attack at touch AC ) or the sling.
Its understandable you want those fancy weapons but of the casters a druid dont have that much of a issue.
Blave |
For reach, you have the Long spear ( pretty sure thats a simple weapon ) for ranged you have Produce fire ( light source + ranged attack at touch AC ) or the sling.
Longspear is a simple weapon, but druids aren't proficient with all simple weapons. From the rules:
Druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear.
Dracoknight |
Dracoknight wrote:For reach, you have the Long spear ( pretty sure thats a simple weapon ) for ranged you have Produce fire ( light source + ranged attack at touch AC ) or the sling.Longspear is a simple weapon, but druids aren't proficient with all simple weapons. From the rules:
Druids are proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear.
Whoops, well if he likes profs i suggest taking fighter in lvl 2 so he can get druid as his favored class for HP/Skill/bonuses. And later on the dragon scale heavy armor if he fancy that.
ChaosTicket |
Ok sometimes I forget people can skip practical things.
While some classes and builds focus on equipment, there isnt a real reason to not have equipment unless is conflicts with class rules, such as the Monk. Then its about finding alternatives. Druids cant use metal armor for example, but dragonhide material is an alternative, and dragonhide full plate is a huge improvement over leather armor.
All classes are very equipment dependent early on as the class special abilities and spells dont start getting enough uses or duration until level 5-10. I would spend more time using ranged weapons than melee long before I can turn into a Tiger.
Depending on druid archetypes equipment can be more important as wild shape may change or be removed. Nature Fang replaces Wild Shape with Slayer feats, but doesnt have have anywhere near enough weapon variety to be self-sufficient. Goliath Druid keeps equipment in its forms.
Blave |
It depends on playstyle, build, level-range of the campaign and a dozen other factors of course. But in general the druid has a very solid weapons list. Scimitar, Scythe and Shillelagh (and your animal companion if you have one) are more than enough to get you past the first levels.
If you REALLY want a reach weapon or a bow, I'd suggest being a half-elf with ancestral arms. Level dipping, being a weak-ish race like elf or wasting a feat on something you won't be using for a big part of your adventuring career simply doesn't seem very wise to me.
DocShock |
As a druid, you can wear full plate and ignore the speed penalty and proficiency while wild shaped if it has the Wild enchantment on it. It's expensive, but it's also amazing. You can spend your time wildshaped as an ape or earth elemental or something and can still wield a scythe or sling as long as your shape is capable of picking up a weapon.
Also, a sling is actually a pretty sweet weapon. It doesn't really get outclassed by a longbow until you can make multiple shots with your bow. It's 2 points less damage, but adds your strength modifier by default.
stormcrow27 |
Don't use a bow. Almost everbody that plays a druid or a ranger uses or will use an elf and a bow build. Play a druid that throws spears at low level, or dual wields sickles, or uses a quarterstaff with Shillelagh (one of the most powerful 1st level weapon buff spells ever). Or goes with an exotic prof that uses a double-headed spear or a chijiriki (spear with chain in the weapon). This ensures you have a unique fighting approach rather then I go, I'm out of spells, I shoot my bow. Lead blades and gravity bow can also be applied to melee and thrown weapons, increasing their damage.
1. Druids are great for almost any role, other then front brick until they get wild shape. Then you can turn into tigers, elementals, plants (turn into a shambling mound and see how fast melee types run when they have poor CMD bonuses, or a mandragora, or spin up a whirlwind and then cast lightning into the poor sods flying around you). Add in the Wild enchantment, and then you're a shambling mound incased in darkwood full plate and potentially shield.
2. Their spell access for blasting magic is second only to the arcane types, and even then they can also get things like earthquake or walls of lava. As for summons, at low grade animals can be easily boosted to do outrageous damage with spells like animal growth, the one that makes the animals into dire forms of themselves combined with animal growth, armor spikes, etc. Defensive and healing magic is pretty close if not better then the cleric, lacking the exception of spontaneous conversion and the bless line of spells.
3. Almost all races are awesome to play druids with. Especially the more exotic ones like catfolk or lashunta.
4. Consider the terrain based or shaman archetypes if your campaign doesn't start out near a forest.
Kolokotroni |
Ok sometimes I forget people can skip practical things.
While some classes and builds focus on equipment, there isnt a real reason to not have equipment unless is conflicts with class rules, such as the Monk. Then its about finding alternatives. Druids cant use metal armor for example, but dragonhide material is an alternative, and dragonhide full plate is a huge improvement over leather armor.
All classes are very equipment dependent early on as the class special abilities and spells dont start getting enough uses or duration until level 5-10. I would spend more time using ranged weapons than melee long before I can turn into a Tiger.
Depending on druid archetypes equipment can be more important as wild shape may change or be removed. Nature Fang replaces Wild Shape with Slayer feats, but doesnt have have anywhere near enough weapon variety to be self-sufficient. Goliath Druid keeps equipment in its forms.
While there isn't a reason to not have equipment, you also need to consider what a class is good at. Basically all good druid builds make use of wild shape. If you are a casting focused druid, wildshapping into a tiny bird not only adds mobility, but also can make you dramatically harder to hit. If you are going to fight, you wild shape into some kind of combat animal.
Things that don't help you in wild shape, after you have 2 per day pretty much are not important for your ability to fight anymore. And while some archetypes do limit or remove wild shape, you have to consider that that archetype isn't like other druids, and you aren't going to be able to make a neat box to put all the things you can do with the druid and its archetypes into.
In fact its probably the most versatile and well rounded class in the game. There is very little you cant do with a druid if you build for it.
At low levels, generally, my druids rely on their animal companion for protection while using spells for support, buffing the companion, or summoning. In that sort of activity you don't actually need equipmenet because the character actions aren't important. A low level druid doesn't contribute to combat themselves. Their bear or tiger buddy does it for them. They might cast a spell or two, but mostly, they are hanging back and letting the animal do the heavy lifting. Maybe throw in a spell or a summoned creature for good measure. The only equipment you are really worried about at low level is barding for your companion. (And honestly unless you don't like it for thematic reasons an animal companion should always take light armor as its first feat and give it some armor soonest). You aren't going to take ranged combat feats to take advantage of a bow (at 3/4 bab, middling dex and no precise shot, a bow isn't going to be useful anyway). It literally isn't important.
At mid to higher levels, that's when the druids own actions start to matter more with a host of useful spells, the ability to change form multiple times a day for hours at a time, and an even more powerful companion (who has an outrageous AC if properly outfitted). But at that point combat actions will be done with claw, fang and wing, not equipment.
WagnerSika |
As a druid, you can wear full plate and ignore the speed penalty and proficiency while wild shaped if it has the Wild enchantment on it.
Unfortunately this is not the case anymore.
If you do gain any benefits (as with the wild property), then you do suffer the armor check penalty, movement speed reduction, and arcane spell failure chance.
Aldrid |
My advice, pick what you're going to do early on, and build for that thing. A pouncing druid is terrifying, a summoning druid is terrifying, and a controlling druid is going to be worth their weight in gold.
Remember you only get to act once yourself on a turn, twice technically with your animal companion, but if you try to cover everything your druid can do, none of their options will be very strong, and it's possible your action will be useless, your summon will get swatted down after a round, you'll only hit with a single natural attack, and all the enemies will make their save.
It's very tempting to try and be a generalist with a druid, don't fall for it, Pathfinder isn't a game for generalists.
DocShock |
Unfortunately this is not the case anymore.
Booooooo!!!!
The creative director had this to say long before that FAQ was published.
The armor, once you wildshape, no longer impedes your movement. its max Dex no longer applies, nor does its armor check penalty. This is what helps make the "wild" armor quality a +3 equivalent bonus and not +2 or +1.
Wild armor is pretty useless if that's the case. It costs a fortune and has minimal advantage compared to mage armor or barding. Thats a bummer.
That aside, Druids are still super cool, wildshaped or not.
ChaosTicket |
Ok I like to plan in stages rather than just think about what to do at level 20.
Druid plan at level 1-5 is what? You can only cast a handful of spells best saved for the boss. At this point physical attacks are extremely important, as are feats to give you extra ones such as Rapid Shot. Note: This is where people skip over discussion the most. I think multi-class is a good option as a great sword or composite longbow would be more useful than a few spells at this point. retrain later to remove multiclasss levels.
Level 6-10 Druids can use magic several times and be wild shaped for several hours per day. Mundane equipment becomes less useful at this point especially for a Druid. The difference between Casters and Warriors shows up. Druid isnt a warrior and doesnt have bonus feats so shouldnt think about becoming an Archer.
Level 11+ Druid is dedicated to being a caster by this point.
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Hybrid class such as the Warpriest, Hunter, and Magus are alot better at early levels because they can get better equipment than specialist casters can. Those were my first picks and why Im trying to play the more complex Cleric, Druid, and Wizard.
MidknightTopaz |
If you are going to focus on being a dedicated caster, you need Natural Spell, Wild Speech and the Wild enhancement on your armor, no matter the style you pick for that. Wands are a must. But... for your feats, Combat Casting, Uncanny Concentration, and any Metamagic Feats you have slots left for. And figure out if you're going to be a summoner, healer, controller, or just do lots of damage with things like Firestorm or Storm of Vengeance. This actually changes how you build your feat list anyways.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Rhedyn |
Try to give yourself 16 strength at start, then pump wisdom for the rest of your career (start 16+). Grab the animal companion not the domain.
You need 3 feats. Get these first: Spell focus conjuration, augment summoning, natural spell.
And you are done. Your animal companion carries your through early levels (though you still contribute by yourself). Mid levels you can melee with the best of them. Late game you focus more on casting and utility wildshape. Very late game you cast Shapechange on your animal companion and you have a huge dragon for an ally.
And whenever in doubt, just summon some elementals. Enough elementals will solve almost any problem.
One downside: Druids can be aptly called spreadsheet simulator. They are complicated to play
DocShock |
So ChaosTicket, what do you want your druid to do in the long run? As you can tell from many of these comments you have a lot of options, but what you want to do later will inform what you do in levels 1-5. Are you interested in getting into melee combat? You keep talking about a bow and rapid shot, are you trying to build an archer? Do you want to affect the battlefield with spells, or debilitate enemies, or are you more interested in just blasting everything with fire and lightning?
What do you see yourself doing at level 12?
Kolokotroni |
Ok I like to plan in stages rather than just think about what to do at level 20.
Druid plan at level 1-5 is what? You can only cast a handful of spells best saved for the boss. At this point physical attacks are extremely important, as are feats to give you extra ones such as Rapid Shot. Note: This is where people skip over discussion the most. I think multi-class is a good option as a great sword or composite longbow would be more useful than a few spells at this point. retrain later to remove multiclasss levels.
You have a tiger or a bear, or something similar to do your physical attacks for you at low levels. You can save your spells to buff Mr Kitty or to summon an additional animal to help in encounters so you don't actually need to cast a lot of spells.
A druid gets a TON of level dependent stuff. Multiclassing is an aweful idea unless you have something super specific in mind. And even then I would say look at the hunter if you want a more fighter druid.
Level 6-10 Druids can use magic several times and be wild shaped for several hours per day. Mundane equipment becomes less useful at this point especially for a Druid. The difference between Casters and Warriors shows up. Druid isnt a warrior and doesnt have bonus feats so shouldnt think about becoming an Archer.
The question is why a druid would consider archery at any point. It sounds like you want a hunter not a druid. And, a druid can certainly become a good warrior. He doesn't need feats for it. He has magic. Specifically wild shape and buff spells. If you build with this in mind a mid level druid can DEFINATELY be a good warrior. He doesn't need many feats beyond natural spell. Have a good starting strength and an ok con, wild shape into a bear and eat some face.
Level 11+ Druid is dedicated to being a caster by this point.
That depends on what you are going for. If you want to be a combat focused druid, you don't need to be a dedicated caster. But it certainly is an option. Particularly if you pay close attention to the kinds of spells the druid does right.
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Hybrid class such as the Warpriest, Hunter, and Magus are alot better at early levels because they can get better equipment than specialist casters can. Those were my first picks and why Im trying to play the more complex Cleric, Druid, and Wizard.
I don't understand what you mean by get better equipment? A druid starts with the best possible equipment in the game. A whole other character really good at tearing peoples face off(animal companion). Buy some barding for it, and depending on how much your group optimizes and what stat generation you use, it damn well might be a better fighter then the fighter all on its own.
stormcrow27 |
Clerics, Druids, and Wizards are far less complex then the hybrid classes. Mostly because they have 9th level casting that is supposed to take the place of the other thematic abilities all of the other classes get. If you want to go with a warrior guy with a pet complex, go with a hunter. They get better weapon profs, support abilities to make their pet into ludicrous mode (for example, a divine hunter archetype with a primal hunter type allows you to apply the celestial or fiendish template and then add in summoner evolutions, which makes for an insane pet with damage reduction, SR, and the ability to cast spells, grow extra arms, etc. It works even better if you are a neutral character and drop the fiendish template on your pet, because most games don't have enemies that can overcome DR/good). You also get access to 1st through 6th level ranger and druid spells, and don't have to worry about lacking AOE effects.
ChaosTicket |
Ok we are playing very different games in play sessions if any you are asking why someone would use attacks, weapons and armor.
Some of the comments sound like youve never fought early battles against enemies armed with bows, reach weapons, and alchemist's fire.
Spells are just short of useless in the early game as you can only use them a finite number of times per ingame day, which is about one session.
SmiloDan RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Chaos Ticket, it really does depend on the campaign. For example, Kingmaker has tons of wilderness exploration, so you usually have only 1 or 2 encounters per day, most wandering monsters, so avoidable.
Other campaigns are dungeon crawls with dozens of encounters per day.
Maybe check with your GM to see what you should expect.
Paradozen |
Ok we are playing very different games in play sessions if any you are asking why someone would use attacks, weapons and armor.These are good, but druids supply their own versions. A melee druid has a lower AC starting out, but barkskin makes this far less of a problem putting you on par with a cleric. 1 &2 can be tough, but a shield can help, as can a companion that draws aggro.
Bows require a huge investment for specialization. Most of your feats. If you don't want to spend so much, a sling or a sack of javelins works about as well, adding strength to damage for much lower cost. Alch Fire is great...and druids can use them as well as anyone else. That is a good idea. As for reach weapons, they are good but not the ultimate in melee. It helps, but at low levels even heavy armored warrior NPCs can dodge your cmd to get close enough to emgage. At high levels, your reach is being a large creature with reach. It helps to focus because choices at low levels (specifically, stats and early feats) impact lategame heavily. A reach or archer build might want to sacrifice wildshape for proficiencies or go Goliath Druid for incredible reach.Some of the comments sound like youve never fought early battles against enemies armed with bows, reach weapons, and alchemist's fire.
Spells are just short of useless in the early game as you can only use them a finite number of times per ingame day, which is about one session
This seems to be a very unique playstyle. It rarely takes more than one serious spell into turn a low-level fight on its heels. Entangle turns a tough batch of fearsome goblins into a spearthrowing competition. You might not do the damage, but if the goblins die ten feet away with a bunch of sharp sticks in them because you cast a spell, you won the fight. Alternatively, a melee druid doesn't need many buffs, just an animal companion that can flank and often do more damage than you.
Rhedyn |
Ok we are playing very different games in play sessions if any you are asking why someone would use attacks, weapons and armor.
Some of the comments sound like youve never fought early battles against enemies armed with bows, reach weapons, and alchemist's fire.
Spells are just short of useless in the early game as you can only use them a finite number of times per ingame day, which is about one session.
You haven't played with optimised casters.
Mortals cling to their fragile tools while their betters rewrite the rules of war with flicks of their wrist.
Oh and the druid's animal companion is just a better fighter at early levels. To keep up at higher levels the druid has to buff them a lot. Unless you pick a trash pet. Considering the best pets are wolf and bear, you have no real excuse not to grab a good one.
Letric |
The only way you could have issues early level is if you play a purely WIS/INT druid.
Armor wise you're gonna have the same as a Fighter and non dex builds. Dex builds might have a slight edge.
If you go 16-18 STR, 14 DEX/CON 14 WIS 10 INT 7 CHA you're golden.
STR/Wildshaped druid don't need high DC for casting just enough to cast, you don't even need to level up WIS, just use magic items.
Scimitar doing 1d6+4 damage while wielding a shield gives you great AC. Can also use 2H weapon and get 1d8+6 to damage.
Spells are OP. Spells might be worth 2 feats give or take. 1 spell ends encounter, unless you are using Magic Missile... can't really help with that.
At level 3 youre behind what? 1 BAB from full bab classes. You still rock, and you have 2nd level spells. Hello Bulls STR, suddenly you have more +hit +damage than the warrior and barbarian, and you buffs actually last more in a single fight.
Rerednaw |
Druid is a solid class. I guess my confusion is based what exactly you want your druid to do. What role is he/she playing in the party?
My last druid was based on one single attack (vital strike). Not the most efficient, but definitely holding its own. Start with club/shillelagh, then porcupine (2d6 tail slap), then L /H megafauna and behemoth hippo. Was for PFS but can be adapted for your own campaign. hippo druid pfs linky
And he still had full druid spell progression. Build works whether you decide on an animal companion or go full caster.
ChaosTicket |
I dont think this is going anywhere by this point. You just dont think dying at early levels is possible, so I get suggestions to suicide a low AC Druid and animal.
Early on every character is a warrior just because having high AC, ranged and melee attacks are very important.
A Composite Longbow is more accurate, more powerful, and much lighter weight for ammunition than a Sling. Some people are only skimming this thread and somehow they get "I want to make a Druid specializing in archey Feats".
Out of all of this, someone mentioning Entangle is probably the most useful advice. I would have to warn other people in my group like that Samurai that always wants to charge, but it would be very useful.