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Yes. You'll take penalties for Two Weapon Fighting whenever you make a full attack with both weapons, so you'll want the TWF feats.
The problem is that since neither is a light weapon, the penalty even with TWF will be -4 on each hand instead of -2.
If you change the off-hand weapon from a rapier to any light weapon though, you can still keep the main hand weapon a rapier and make the penalties for both -2 with the TWF feat.
Yes. sneak attack on both applies if you hit with both.
Can a rogue dual-weild rapiers? I'm playing an 5th level rogue (core book) and wanted to make sure I was doing it right.
You will take penalties because the off hand weapon is not a light weapon. (Rapiers have special excemptions for weapon finesse but are still not light weapons).
You want your off hand to be a short sword or dagger.
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Can a rogue dual-weild rapiers? I'm playing an 5th level rogue (core book) and wanted to make sure I was doing it right.You will take penalties because the off hand weapon is not a light weapon. (Rapiers have special excemptions for weapon finesse but are still not light weapons).
You want your off hand to be a short sword or dagger.
or literally ANY light melee weapon he is proficient with.
Unchained Rogues however only get DEX to damage with a single weapon at 3rd level, so it'd make sense to opt for both weapons being Rapiers if crit range matters more to you than hit chance. Though since he's not going Unchained, he won't be able to use Fencing Grace with Rapiers if you're using TWF... since it was changed by Ultimate Intrigue so that you have to have an empty hand. Meaning he has no way to gain DEX to Damage as a Core Rogue with Rapiers, meaning he has a MAD problem. OP needs to have high DEX to counter the penalties from TWF with 2 rapiers, which will reduce his damage output if he sacrifices STR. But if he bumps his STR up (at the cost of some DEX) he can mitigate the damage difference between Rapiers and Kukri... and mitigate the DEX difference by getting a -2 instead of -4.
You CAN dual-wield Rapiers... but without DEX to damage you can't just dump STR since you need STR for damage. So it isn't really worth the extra -2 penalty. Plus a Shortsword does the same damage (just with a smaller crit range) so using it instead of a Rapier in one hand makes crit range the only difference.
If crit range matters to you then I strongly suggest a Rapier + Kukri. Both have 18-20 crit, Kukri does 1d4 damage instead of 1d6 that Rapier does... but you'll only have a -2 penalty to hit with TWF instead of -4 so you can sacrifice a couple points of DEX for a boost to STR to mitigate the difference in damage by 1 or 2 (unless your abilities are randomly rolled).
Also if you can get Exotic Weapon Profiency (say, as a Half Elf with Ancestral Weapon) consider the Estoc instead of Rapier for the main hand. It's one handed, finesse-able like the Rapier, has the same crit range... and does 2d4 damage instead of 1d6. So you can wield a Kukri in the offhand and actually have higher damage (max is same, minimum boosted by 1) than if you wielded 2 rapiers... but have a higher hit chance. Plus if you so choose you can two-hand it for some extra damage. The flavor of the Estoc is similar to the Rapier... it's a thrusting weapon though it's much longer (and never has a blade, only a point).
Or you could get a effortless lace for your offhand for 2500gp i think it was?
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Or you can just use Daggers. Rapier is not the best weapon for rogues for several reasons. Sneak Attack damage is not multiplied on a crit, so the enchanced crit range is usually wasted. Daggers have better support. They can be thrown if needed, they have a trait to make the damage better, and there is a feat to give you a +2 sacred bonus to hit with them. You also don't need to worry about effortless lace or extra TWF penalties.
Yeah....what Imbicatus said.
Sneak attack isn't multiplied on a crit, so crit range doesn't matter to rogues, at least not very much. Rogues rely primarily on sneak attack for damage, getting nothing in the way of static bonuses to attack and damage. Scoring a critical hit doesn't matter much if you don't have much of a static damage modifier to multiply in the first place.
Daggers are a better option in general because the River Rat trait gives bonus damage with them and the deific obedience feat for Pharasma will give you a bonus to hit. And since they're light weapons you don't take additional penalties while TWF.
And if you want crit range, a single weapon type and light; go dual kukris.
Yeah....what Imbicatus said.
Sneak attack isn't multiplied on a crit, so crit range doesn't matter to rogues, at least not very much. Rogues rely primarily on sneak attack for damage, getting nothing in the way of static bonuses to attack and damage. Scoring a critical hit doesn't matter much if you don't have much of a static damage modifier to multiply in the first place.
Daggers are a better option in general because the River Rat trait gives bonus damage with them and the deific obedience feat for Pharasma will give you a bonus to hit. And since they're light weapons you don't take additional penalties while TWF.
And since there are now feats to get a thrown weapon to boomerang back... well... why not daggers?
Throwing is a great style, since it can allow you to do damage from a distance with the same weapons you upgraded for melee, and you can still use the weapon for melee when needed.
Going with such a style is a long term goal, of course, since rogues don't have the feats to play around with that for a while... but it is an option that serves you better than trying to deal with the -4 penalties of double rapiers (which is huge at low levels) when all the latter gives you is crit range that barely helps you.
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Thanks for the advice, everyone. Looks like I'll be changing my weapons too daggers, and perhaps carry a short-sword for back-up.You might want to take a look a the Knifemaster Rogue archetype then.
It bumps your sneak attack damage up to d8s for daggers, but d4s for everything else.
It does replace trapfinding, so he should talk to his GM about that. Since the GM may like to use traps and trapfinding is a requirement for using Disable Device with magic traps.
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Well my GM has stated that the Unchained Rogue is too powerful, so in order to not cause any undue stress on his part I was trying to keep it basic. And to be honest I'm trying to take every single optimized feat/skill/ weapon that I can. All I want to do is play a rogue and have fun with him. Again, the feedback is very much appreciated.
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Well my GM has stated that the Unchained Rogue is too powerful, so in order to not cause any undue stress on his part I was trying to keep it basic. And to be honest I'm trying to take every single optimized feat/skill/ weapon that I can. All I want to do is play a rogue and have fun with him. Again, the feedback is very much appreciated.
That's a good joke.
While the Uncahined Rogue is much better than the core rogue, they're still far from powerful.
Sure, a rogue that is built well can do a lot of sneak attack if all of their attacks lands. Of course it took TWF, ITWF, two weapon feint, improved two weapon feint. And having a high bluff. And now you can sacrifice one of your highest BAB attacks to get sneak attack on every attack. Which is great and all. But you still have a mediocre AC and with a d8 hit die, you're hp is going to be low.
You're a glass cannon. Sure once you get to high level you can deal a lot of damage assuming all your attacks hit (not actually a very good assumptions, rogues miss a lot in my experience). But you'll also very likely to die from a full attack from an enemy.
I spent most of my time running away from enemies and trying not to lose the last 10 hp I had in a lot of combats. Even though I would kill my target in one full attack, his friend behind him was usually quite angry about it.
Well my GM has stated that the Unchained Rogue is too powerful, so in order to not cause any undue stress on his part I was trying to keep it basic. And to be honest I'm trying to take every single optimized feat/skill/ weapon that I can. All I want to do is play a rogue and have fun with him. Again, the feedback is very much appreciated.That's a good joke.
While the Uncahined Rogue is much better than the core rogue, they're still far from powerful.
I was going to say ...
Unchained ... Rogue is too powerful? The words "Rogue" and "Too Powerful" shouldn't be put in the same paragraph as each other. Ever. Well, unless we're comparing them to, like, Kobolds with a level of Commoner or something. Then, sure.
I mean, I love Rogues. I think the class is fun and has a lot of potential flavor. But to be anything more than pretty mediocre, you need to know what you're doing with your build.
If Unchained Rogues are too powerful, don't tell your GM about Wizards. Or Sorcerers. Or Druids. Or ...
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Well my GM has stated that the Unchained Rogue is too powerful, so in order to not cause any undue stress on his part I was trying to keep it basic. And to be honest I'm trying to take every single optimized feat/skill/ weapon that I can. All I want to do is play a rogue and have fun with him. Again, the feedback is very much appreciated.That's a good joke.
While the Uncahined Rogue is much better than the core rogue, they're still far from powerful.
I'll put in my $0.02 and agree. The Unchained version took Rogue from a solid NPC class to a solid martial PC class.
If your GM won't let you go Unchained - see if you can go Slayer instead.