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Blatantly wild speculation about game mechanics!


Starfinder General Discussion

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CKent83 wrote:

I don't really want to talk about Perception as a Class Skill, but OK. Since the Soldier didn't get it as a Class Skill, no one should. It made me so angry that the class that should get it first was left out, I thought of house ruling that only Soldiers can pass Perception checks. Apparently situational awareness isn't something that's done in space, neither is guard duty, but oh well. Seriously, there is no argument for a Soldier not getting Perception that doesn't work for every other class. So the Mechanic definitely, no way in the Abyss, doesn't get it. I'll be very disappointed in Paizo if any other classes get Perception.

As far as Class Skills go for the Mechanic, I agree 100% with what you suggested (ignoring Perception as a suggestion for the Mechanic because that's offensive). The other classes listed so far have 1/2 the number of Skill Points/level as the total number of Class Skills they have. You listed 8 Class Skills, so 4/level.

Also, yeah the Mystic gets 6/level. I have no idea why. Medicine, a couple of knowledge skills, maybe Sense Motive, and they'd be good, but instead they're kinda bloated with skills. I think that might end up being a thing in Starfinder, Skill Bloat. Sure the Soldier needed extra Class Skills (including Perception because they use their ears and eyeballs when they're on guard duty!), but the Cleric and Bard were fine with their number of skills/level as far as I knew.

"Bloated with skills" sounds absurd to me. Being skill-starved is generally very unfun in Pathfinder. Having more skill points is something I always support.


This being a science fiction game, I expect skills will be more important than in an avarage fantasy game, especially given that Pilot, Gunnery, Engeneering and Computer are so important for space combat. So lots of high-skill classes.

As for soldiers not having perception as a class skill, if it bothers you so much why not house rule that they do?

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Fardragon wrote:

I would see Mechanic as another skill monkey class (especially if they have an AI assistant) and a choice of skills to represent scientists and doctors, not just engineers.

Class skills: Computers, Culture, Engineering, Life Science, Physical Science, Medicine, Profession, Disable Device.

And Perception. If you want to fix something you have to be able to spot what is wrong with it.

Having seen a couple of Mechanic characters in action and their character sheets at PaizoCon, I can say that Mechanics are good at Computers and Engineering with skills and I think they have some class abilities that make them even better at those skills. Also, I am pretty sure I saw at least one of those characters with a high Perception bonus on the sheet. I believe at least one of them, if not both of the Mechanic sheets I saw had Medicine on it.

As for the rest of those skills, well, I remember somebody from Paizo telling those of us present that Disable Device is no longer a skill in Starfinder (I think it was Owen KC Stephens during his Emerald Spire game); it's rolled up into Engineering. Certainly, that is how we used it during that game. My technomancer and the mechanics present were all using our engineering skill to disable traps, get through doors, and whatnot. Also, for that matter, I think I remember that Use Magic Device got rolled up into Mysticism, though I don't remember it coming up during play.

What's more, I'm pretty sure that someone stated that no one get more skills than the operative and the envoy. I can't seem to find the quote, but I know someone at Paizo stated that in either an article or a response to it here on the website or said so in a panel or interview at PaizoCon (I don't remember who it was, either).

So, no, I don't think that the Mechanic is a skill monkey class. That role is filled by the operative and the envoy. Mechanics is more the... pet class and the... specialized in dealing with technology class (seeing two different versions of it in play makes me say it that way). The mechanic with the exocortex (the AI you were referring to) is a bit more skill focused, but I think that is more to do with class feature enhancements to existing skills that work sort of like Skill Focus, not because his skill list gets bigger. Oh yeah, I remember his exocortex game him some sort of targeting focus/bonus to hit type of ability, too.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
CKent83 wrote:


Also, yeah the Mystic gets 6/level. I have no idea why. Medicine, a couple of knowledge skills, maybe Sense Motive, and they'd be good, but instead they're kinda bloated with skills. I think that might end up being a thing in Starfinder, Skill Bloat. Sure the Soldier needed extra Class Skills (including Perception because they use their ears and eyeballs when they're on guard duty!), but the Cleric and Bard were fine with their number of skills/level as far as I knew.

A cleric absolutely needs 3 skills/level, not 2. Every cleric in order to function has to take both knowledge religion and spellcraft at every level. They should have one more to 'customize' and use on diplomacy (if built with good CHA for channeling) or heal or something that makes their character who they are.


Ashanderai wrote:
his exocortex game him some sort of targeting focus/bonus to hit type of ability, too.

So Master Chief was a multi classed Mechanic/Soldier?


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Based on what we've seen so far, I'd guess mechanics get 6/level and one of those will be perception. I would assume this for 2 reasons:

1) I'm sure mechanics, like operatives, are more than just what they seem by name. Engineers,for example. So they're probably going to have more skills, especially since I think the soldier is going to be the lowest.

2) as the class that basically do the whole thing where they disable devices, they'll need to be able to spot them. Plus to be able to listen to an engine and figure out what's wrong, you need to be perceptive.

Also expecting poor will saves as every class so far has them as strong. Good fort, as they inhale fumes all day. Not sure about ref


I think a paradigm shift is needed. In PF 2 SP is low, 4 is medium, 6 is high and 8 is very high.

In SF 4 SP is low, 6 is avarage, and 8 is high. Mechanics and Mystics are average, soldiers are low.

NB does Int still have it's usual effect? Do humans stil get an extra SP?

NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.


CKent83 wrote:
Ashanderai wrote:
his exocortex game him some sort of targeting focus/bonus to hit type of ability, too.
So Master Chief was a multi classed Mechanic/Soldier?

Master Chief was a Gestalt solider/mechanic


lakobie wrote:
CKent83 wrote:
Ashanderai wrote:
his exocortex game him some sort of targeting focus/bonus to hit type of ability, too.
So Master Chief was a multi classed Mechanic/Soldier?
Master Chief was a Gestalt solider/mechanic

IDK, he doesn't seem too good with tech, it's Cortana that's good with tech. A dip into Mechanic seems more likely.


Fardragon wrote:
Do humans stil get an extra SP?

Well Sarcesians do.


Fardragon wrote:

I think a paradigm shift is needed. In PF 2 SP is low, 4 is medium, 6 is high and 8 is very high.

In SF 4 SP is low, 6 is avarage, and 8 is high. Mechanics and Mystics are average, soldiers are low.

NB does Int still have it's usual effect? Do humans stil get an extra SP?

NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.

Yes, INT still gives skill points. Yes, humans still get an extra one.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Fardragon wrote:

I think a paradigm shift is needed. In PF 2 SP is low, 4 is medium, 6 is high and 8 is very high.

In SF 4 SP is low, 6 is avarage, and 8 is high. Mechanics and Mystics are average, soldiers are low.

NB does Int still have it's usual effect? Do humans stil get an extra SP?

NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.

I disagree with that assessment. I think soldiers and technomancers will be like fighters and wizards in that they both get the low end of the skill points. Remember, technomancers are spending time studying their spells whereas mystics are the more instinctive/intuition/faith-based casters that don't need to consult their books (i.e. intelligence vs. wisdom casters). We already know the mystic's skill points per level, but I think technomancers will get 4 skill points per level, but their key ability will be INT, so they won't get hit as hard as the soldier in the skill department since they are free to focus on that ability score more. Also, I think the solarion will probably also be 4 per level to balance that they are focusing on more fightery-mystic abilities. Mechanic might be 6 or 4, but I think they definitely are not 8.

As for Culture, it is the new version of the Knowledge Local skill, which in all my games comes up quite often.

Incidentally, what do you mean when you state "NB"? I don't know what you are referring to. All I can think of is the droid character, NB, from the anime series, "Tenchi Muyo GXP".


Maybe it stands for "nota bene"?


Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.


Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.

They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.

Paizo Employee Developer, Starfinder Team

Fardragon wrote:
NB most of the backgrounds seem to give situational bonuses to Culture skill, which suggests that the developers are expecting most characters to take it.

Nope. Anyone can, of course, but we have no such assumption about most characters. And, of course, you haven't seen all the themes.


Mashallah wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.

While we're on the subject, I wonder if the forum will settle on something besides "SP" for "skill points", since Starfinder PCs will already have SPs - "stamina points." That could be REALLY confusing.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ENHenry wrote:
Mashallah wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.
While we're on the subject, I wonder if the forum will settle on something besides "SP" for "skill points", since Starfinder PCs will already have SPs - "stamina points." That could be REALLY confusing.

I propose SkP. Then we can also pronounce it as 'skips'.


Mashallah wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.

Yes, I said 4 was the low band. My guess is soldiers and solarians are on 4, envoys and operatives are on 8, and everyone else is on 6.

And I'm dyslexic, so only one letter wrong is pretty good going for me.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Fardragon wrote:
And I'm dyslexic, so only one letter wrong is pretty good going for me.

Me, too.


Fardragon wrote:
Mashallah wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.

Yes, I said 4 was the low band. My guess is soldiers and solarians are on 4, envoys and operatives are on 8, and everyone else is on 6.

And I'm dyslexic, so only one letter wrong is pretty good going for me.

I would be extremely surprised if an INT-primary spellcaster (which Technomancer is) turned out to have 6+INT skill points.

Dark Archive

Shadrayl of the Mountain wrote:
ENHenry wrote:
Mashallah wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.
While we're on the subject, I wonder if the forum will settle on something besides "SP" for "skill points", since Starfinder PCs will already have SPs - "stamina points." That could be REALLY confusing.
I propose SkP. Then we can also pronounce it as 'skips'.

And then Stamina Points could be StP or "Stamps."


That looks more like "Steps" to me.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I see stp as stone temple pilots, but that's me.


Mashallah wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
Technomancer may be on 4 SP, but I suspect it will be Solarions who join soldiers in the low band.
They're called Solarians. Moreover, 4 SP is the low band - that's what Soldiers have.

Even in the grim darkness of the future, fighters can't into skill points.


Ah, gaming abbreviations. I remember when I had to SR (soft reset) to get SR (stealth rock) on the 'mon I wanted. Let's not forget when I needed a different HP (Hit Point) IV (complicated statgen parameter) to get the right HP (hidden power) type.


Please stop right there and don't put little bag creatures in the whole mix


So what's everyone expecting from the last v3 classes? I know for me, I'm thinking:

Technomancer 3/4 BAB. Strong will. Maybe reflex?
Solarion. Full BAB. All 3 saves strong, like a monk.
Mechanic. 3/4 BAB. Strong fort and/or reflex (nor will -everyone has will.)


Alright, my turn to take a stab at a wild speculation.

Using the First Contact boom as an idea here...

HP will not be rolled at all. You'll get racial HP+Con mod/lvl. Your class will give you a die roll per level of stamina.


Kiln Norn wrote:

Alright, my turn to take a stab at a wild speculation.

Using the First Contact boom as an idea here...

HP will not be rolled at all. You'll get racial HP+Con mod/lvl. Your class will give you a die roll per level of stamina.

As far as I know, pictures from Paizocon showed neither HP nor SP are rolled, they're flat numbers with a modifier.


Oh fun, hadn't seen anything from pictures of classes.


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Kiln Norn wrote:

Alright, my turn to take a stab at a wild speculation.

Using the First Contact boom as an idea here...

HP will not be rolled at all. You'll get racial HP+Con mod/lvl. Your class will give you a die roll per level of stamina.

Actually, it seems – if you check out the slide of the operative class page spread – that you gain a SP + Con per level, but HP per Level with no Con bonus. Both HP and SP per level seem to be flat numbers determined by class.


Zaister wrote:
Kiln Norn wrote:

Alright, my turn to take a stab at a wild speculation.

Using the First Contact boom as an idea here...

HP will not be rolled at all. You'll get racial HP+Con mod/lvl. Your class will give you a die roll per level of stamina.

Actually, it seems – if you check out the slide of the operative class page spread – that you gain a SP + Con per level, but HP per Level with no Con bonus. Both HP and SP per level seem to be flat numbers determined by class.

HP is determined by class and race, not just class.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What numbers have we seen for HP by race and class? What numbers are left to plug in? I feel the Vesk and Soldier would both be at the high end of HP... Solarian probably matches Soldier for HP with a slight chance they are a point or two higher since they seem to be so very dedicated to closing into melee.


Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.
Other races are yet unknown.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mashallah wrote:

Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.

Other races are yet unknown.

This is neat. i would assume Elves are on the low end but Dwarves are pretty tough and i guess Shirren are too though i would have guessed them on the low end before... i wonder if we will see a 3rd option or if everyone falls into one of those two categories.


I was under the impression that dwarves had 8.


Torbyne wrote:
Mashallah wrote:

Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.

Other races are yet unknown.
This is neat. i would assume Elves are on the low end but Dwarves are pretty tough and i guess Shirren are too though i would have guessed them on the low end before... i wonder if we will see a 3rd option or if everyone falls into one of those two categories.

My guess is that races with +CON get 6 HP, races with -CON get 4 HP, races with neither get 5 HP.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mashallah wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Mashallah wrote:

Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.

Other races are yet unknown.
This is neat. i would assume Elves are on the low end but Dwarves are pretty tough and i guess Shirren are too though i would have guessed them on the low end before... i wonder if we will see a 3rd option or if everyone falls into one of those two categories.
My guess is that races with +CON get 6 HP, races with -CON get 4 HP, races with neither get 5 HP.

Thats really not much swing there... by the time you can really notice a difference in HP between the lowest and highest character it seems like the damage being thrown around would make that irrelevant anyways.


Torbyne wrote:
Mashallah wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Mashallah wrote:

Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.

Other races are yet unknown.
This is neat. i would assume Elves are on the low end but Dwarves are pretty tough and i guess Shirren are too though i would have guessed them on the low end before... i wonder if we will see a 3rd option or if everyone falls into one of those two categories.
My guess is that races with +CON get 6 HP, races with -CON get 4 HP, races with neither get 5 HP.
Thats really not much swing there... by the time you can really notice a difference in HP between the lowest and highest character it seems like the damage being thrown around would make that irrelevant anyways.

The difference between 4 and 6 is fairly close to the difference between d8 and d12.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mashallah wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Mashallah wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Mashallah wrote:

Shirren have 6 HP. Dwarves have 6 HP. Elves have 4 HP.

Other races are yet unknown.
This is neat. i would assume Elves are on the low end but Dwarves are pretty tough and i guess Shirren are too though i would have guessed them on the low end before... i wonder if we will see a 3rd option or if everyone falls into one of those two categories.
My guess is that races with +CON get 6 HP, races with -CON get 4 HP, races with neither get 5 HP.
Thats really not much swing there... by the time you can really notice a difference in HP between the lowest and highest character it seems like the damage being thrown around would make that irrelevant anyways.
The difference between 4 and 6 is fairly close to the difference between d8 and d12.

True. i am biased from past experiences where we could buy the difference back in training/gold up to the maximium for the character's hit die or other groups where it was house ruled to gain max-1 and max-2 on alternating levels. both resulted in a lot more HP and a greater diversity of HP limits among the party. Con mod plays into that too which now affects Stamina and Resolve but not HP?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Mashallah wrote:
The difference between 4 and 6 is fairly close to the difference between d8 and d12.

It also reads a bit like the levelup HP used in PFS:

D6 -> 4
D8 -> 5
D10 -> 6
D12 -> 7

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I'm pretty sure some races have 2. If you look at the pc blocks in First Contact, goblins and contemplatives had 2, and the haan and sarcesians have 4.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
I'm pretty sure some races have 2. If you look at the pc blocks in First Contact, goblins and contemplatives had 2, and the haan and sarcesians have 4.

Wow. That is rough. Watch out for those level 1 Magic missiles dude, they are the Orc's with Falchions of the future.

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
Torbyne wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
I'm pretty sure some races have 2. If you look at the pc blocks in First Contact, goblins and contemplatives had 2, and the haan and sarcesians have 4.
Wow. That is rough. Watch out for those level 1 Magic missiles dude, they are the Orc's with Falchions of the future.

I think the majority of your hit points are coming from class for pcs, or from role for npcs/monsters. It seems like the 2/4/6/8 are just bonuses on top.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Imbicatus wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
I'm pretty sure some races have 2. If you look at the pc blocks in First Contact, goblins and contemplatives had 2, and the haan and sarcesians have 4.
Wow. That is rough. Watch out for those level 1 Magic missiles dude, they are the Orc's with Falchions of the future.
I think the majority of your hit points are coming from class for pcs, or from role for npcs/monsters. It seems like the 2/4/6/8 are just bonuses on top.

Define majority? I thought the classes were about the same, 4 and 6 are what we've seen, right? so you can have a max of 6 HP at level 1? A 2D4+2 magic missile is a serious concern to that. or just a good roll on a D6 weapon.


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Pathfinder Campaign Setting Subscriber
Torbyne wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
I'm pretty sure some races have 2. If you look at the pc blocks in First Contact, goblins and contemplatives had 2, and the haan and sarcesians have 4.
Wow. That is rough. Watch out for those level 1 Magic missiles dude, they are the Orc's with Falchions of the future.
I think the majority of your hit points are coming from class for pcs, or from role for npcs/monsters. It seems like the 2/4/6/8 are just bonuses on top.
Define majority? I thought the classes were about the same, 4 and 6 are what we've seen, right? so you can have a max of 6 HP at level 1? A 2D4+2 magic missile is a serious concern to that. or just a good roll on a D6 weapon.

Well even if we assume that what we've seen of HP is the max, then you can have a max of 12 HP at level 1 (6 from race, 6 from class) which would mean that at worst a magic missile could bring you to 0 HP. Although I'm sure that magic missile is only 1d4+something damage per bolt and it's been stated that you can only use 1 missile per target. Plus the players have an extra stamina pool which is roughly equivalent to HP so you essentially have about 24 points of damage you can take at level 1 (just a rough estimate, don't quote me). Overall I find it very unlikely you'll be one-shot in a balanced level 1 encounter.

Scarab Sages

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Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

The character sheets of the iconic level 1 soldier had 13 hp and the mystic had 12. That's not counting stamina or resolve points. I don't thing anyone is in danger of being one shot by a magic missile.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So do you still add CON mod to HP then? i thought that was out. And i am not trying to suggest that eveyrone will be in danger of being one shotted but species that only have 2 HP will certianly be more likely to face that. but at least goblins and contemplatives look like they will be rather rare for PCs.


Species with only 2 HP still get the same Stamina as other members of the same class, though.

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