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I remember when Core was first announced. A lot of people were excited about the idea of replaying old scenarios that they couldn't anymore. Others saw it as a great point of entry for new players. And also others saw an innate challenge in tweaking characters with limited access to material while playing more difficult scenarios.
It all sounded so great, until the bottom dropped out.
When I went to PaizoCon last year there were Core games on the schedule. One of the things that I heard from one of the local Seattle VC's was that many of the 7-11 tables were getting cancelled because no one was signing up for it. It's not a big surprise considering that Core Campaign had only recently been announced in March. I made the comment that I had a level 7 Core Wizard and a level 5 Core Cleric, I was asked if I had a life.
This year at PaizoCon there was zero support for Core. Tonya Woldridge mentioned that if you wanted to play Core then you could arrange it by table. This might work well for the Seattle crowd but that is a problem for people like me flying out from Virginia. There may have been some pickup games on Core but I didn't hear of any. There certainly weren't any in the afternoon slots.
During a recent podcast Tanya Woldridge also mentioned that there was a library program for new players concentrating on Core. I don't know of any of those programs in my area (Fairfax, VA) so I don't think this affects me.
To sum it all of I'm trying to figure out what to do next. When Core was first announced there were a few tables for it locally but it eventually fizzled out. Currently, I am the only local GM that is running Core on a regular basis, no one else I know is supporting it.
What am I supposed to do with the three Core characters I have? Hold out for someone to maybe run a game down the road? Or should I just give up and move them all over to the regular campaign so I can actually play them. Does replay factor into the move as on my characters? I have chronicles that I can no longer replay.
Please don't take this for a rant. I'm just trying to figure out what to do.
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Around here, there is a small following for . I am probably one of the champions of it, but people love it here for different reasons. Some love the simplicity, some love the challenge, some love the replay, some like that there's less bloat, and some (like me) enjoy the enhanced value of the chronicles (I'm a collector... I can't help it!). We have a small group of about 5-9 people that play it around here, so getting a table together is sometimes a challenge, and other people groan about it when it is scheduled.
I can't fault them for not scheduling it at cons. It's not for everyone (read: the vast majority), and when I tried to schedule it at a recent con, pretty much all the games turned into Classic campaign. Part of the reason for this is that a lot of players (especially from other regions) didn't even know what was, and just wanted to play with their Classic characters.
I don't really have a solution for your local area than to try to promote it the best you can like you probably have been. But I've learned no matter what, some people just aren't going to even try it out. (Although I've also learned the vast majority of people that do try it end up liking it)
As far as the technicalities of converting characters, I think those chronicles you got are just for your playthrough and don't really "convert" as far as replayability. So if you played Night March of Kalkamedes in with a character, then converted it to Classic, you would still be able to play the scenario in Classic (assuming you haven't already done so), but not again in .
I don't know if it's up your alley, but I have been playing on Play by Post. Honestly, I'm having a blast doing it, and a lot of people like to play online. There's also Virtual Tabletop too if you like that (it's not really my style, so I wouldn't be much help directing you there).
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Random thoughts, no particular order:
Core is happening in Denver at three different stores with regularity (two of them, admittedly, are mine). Tables are rarely canceled. I would estimate the number of players involved in Core to be around 12 to 20, with varying degrees of "involvement" (there are a half dozen who ONLY play Core; another half dozen who play it perhaps once a month; a couple who only *GM* Core - and don't play at all; and a few who predominantly play Core, but are occasionally seen in Standard). As Cfoot mentioned, I see a HUGE presence online for Core, and regularly hear online GMs in the area talk about their online Core games (this is the only way those player participate in Core, however, so I didn't include them in my other numbers).
One thing I will note, however, is that the hope I had of Core attracting *new* players who would ultimately transition to Standard did not pan out. I attribute this to two things:
1 - Explaining Core vs Standard to an interested player adds a layer of complexity to a conversation that is already complex (the conversation being, "What is organized play?"). People still see the massive wall of Pathfinder products I have available and balk at how to become involved.
2 - 5th Edition absolutely dominates at attracting (and keeping) new players. It has brand recognition, a low profile of products available, a drop-in-and-play entry level OrgPlay option (Encounters), and a bunch of celebrities touting its virtues all over the internet (which is a very powerful tool in the marketing war).
Most of the Core play I see centers around individuals who want to consume PFS material at a breakneck pace. This, I think, is why you see such a huge presence online.
I think you continue to promote it. Market it at schools, libraries, and college campuses. But I don't know that it will ever see the level of play that people were initially thinking it would. There just isn't enough support for it from Paizo. If they were to provide Core-Only boons or stories, or provide a bit of push for Core at Paizocon and GenCon, I think you would see growth. But their time is consumed by the success of Standard PFS, and trying to put effort into Core merely costs precious resources that they can't allocate.
Honestly, I couldn't tell you *why* they decided to go forward with Core, if they don't want to dedicate resources to it. But, it is what it is. And, frankly, it does have its own success. It's just different than what many of us expected.
Edit: For perspective on the Core numbers I gave above, I estimate the number of *actively playing* Standard PFS players in Colorado to be near 100. We have probably 400+ people who move in and out of "active," but many of them are seen once or twice per year at best.
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I ran a Core "Serpent's Rise" game on Thursday at PaizoCon.
However that was the first Core game I'd either played or run in probably a year. I assigned credit to my highest level Core character, who has 5xp.... The only other one with a credit has 1xp (from a Kalkimedes game I ran online).
There's basically no Core at all locally where I live.
From my perspective, Core is dead. I'm a little sad about that. Like Drogon, I hoped that this would reduce the intimidating "OMG the Pathfinder RPG book set takes an entire shelf now!" barrier of bringing new players into the game, but it doesn't seem to do that-- it seems to be primarily a way of enabling replay.
Every time a new hardback comes out, I go through a period of only wanting to play Core PFS and giving up on standard, because I'm so overwhelmed by the quantity of rules that GMs are supposed to keep up with nowadays. To really do that right, though, I'd probably have to limit myself to season 1 to 3 or 4 scenarios.
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In the Detroit area, we have a solid Core group that has run between 1-3 tables pretty much every week since Core was announced. We got one group through season 4 and Eyes last year, and we're around 5th-6th level going through seasons 5 and 6 now, and the group keeps getting bigger. It's been a lot of fun, and I think we're going to try to run through the new seeker arc with our seekers soon.
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In Northern Colorado we just completed a table of Year of the Shadow Lodge as Core, and a table of Bonekeep 1 as Core recently as we did a mini-convention. Was a hell of a ride. About half of our Core players are new to the organized play and attracted to it because of the low amount of books needed. The other half are regular PFS players who enjoy the challenge of Core games.
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We have had Core running at our conventions with very mixed results and lots of confusion. Many players just don't understand the exclusivity. They find it very inflexible. It would be a huge help if a Core Character could play in the regular campaign when there are no alternatives available, stay with the core rules and resources, and then go back and play in Core games.
Organized Play Coordinator
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I find CORE is alive in some venues and dead in others. Depends on who you are introducing to the campaign. The more I talk with GMs/players, the more I find CORE is great for the newbies or for the "people who have played it all" but doesn't appeal to the middle bunch that know the system and still have games to play.
We are spinning up a Libraries program. It seems in teaching newer players, CORE can be simpler, so I am focusing on using that and providing guides/handouts explaining how to do things. This is a larger project than I can take on during con season, so I am looking at really diving in around September. Look for more information then.
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Last year, I went to two small, local conventions that had a couple of Core games mixed in with the non-Core. More recent conventions haven't bothered doing that.
Also, the store where I used to play would do the same thing - have an occasional Core game as one of their 2-3 adventures offered in any given week. I don't play at that store any more, since I moved and it's no longer convenient. The store where I play these days has never done any Core.
in some areas its almost all that is played
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Our group just figured out we have approx. 16 games under level 5 we can play not already scheduled till releases post GenCon. That's with switching GMs around, local group meeting biweekly, and conventions. (Keeping in mind that includes gencon and origins scheduling that had to be completed already). Core at PaizoCon last year was a blast and the only reason I had tables to play in sometimes.
Why we didn't switch to core locally prior to that, we were a small group. With one person adamant against playing core at all. Since that person doesn't attend as much, that's now an option opening back up for our group. Who used to play in person, now over roll 20, due to a move.
Moving to a large city (Columbus), I haven't made local game days due to I have played what they are running, since I got released from the hospital (feb). There are no core tables listed on the schedule.
Hopefully I get to meet some prior at origins as it would be odd to drop in for a game I'm not playing.
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville
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Typically I'd say a 1/3 to a 1/4 of our tables wind up being core. there is a fairly strong crew of low level players. I got 2 5'th and 1 2nd and a few table credits.
We're about to try 1 Core table a slot at Ancient City this year to see how it goes. So far on warhorn we got more Core than EotT interest. (we got a GM and 2 EotT vets who need the last one..nothing else, whereas we got like 11 or so core players with a month left to register)
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I can probably add a little insight as to why CORE was not offered separately at PaizoCon or GenCon this year.
There were multiple reasons as to why this option was done away with.
1.Newer players didn't know what the difference was, and showed up with a bloodrager. Sometimes it was caught before the table started and could move, but if the player moved the CORE table would sometimes fall apart. Sometimes they didn't know that it was the bloodrager until halfway through the scenario forcing the CORE players to classic campaign.
2. Sometimes when the players were trying to find players they forgot to mention it was for CORE then decided to switch characters after discovery this revelation.
3. What it boils down to is that CORE is always an option, whether it is actually listed separately or not.
4. The GenCon ticket booth did not know there were two options, so the players were not asked when they bought the tickets. So they got something random.
It was discussed pretty heavily at the Post-GenCon meeting. There it was unanimous from GMs, VOs, con leads, and Tonya that offering CORE separately was a mistake. It caused problems from start to finish. It made mustering problematic if players were not willing to be flexible. It caused problems for the GM and players if the table had to fold or switch campaign mid scenario. If GMs did not write CORE at the top of the sign in sheet it made it difficult for those reporting and fixing all the mistakes later on. All these problems were then brought to the Leads and OPC attention, making it much more difficult for the con the run smooth.
So the Leads and OPC felt that in order to make the Paizo ran cons run as smoothly as possible, that they needed to do away with the CORE only option. CORE is always an available option, players will just need to talk amongst themselves and pre muster.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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So the Leads and OPC felt that in order to make the Paizo ran cons run as smoothly as possible, that they needed to do away with the CORE only option. CORE is always an available option, players will just need to talk amongst themselves and pre muster.
I'm very interested in seeing how this works. Any chance tabs can be kept on how many CORE tables happen at GenCon? And any chance we can get a comparison of this year vs. last year?
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So the Leads and OPC felt that in order to make the Paizo ran cons run as smoothly as possible, that they needed to do away with the CORE only option. CORE is always an available option, players will just need to talk amongst themselves and pre muster.I'm very interested in seeing how this works. Any chance tabs can be kept on how many CORE tables happen at GenCon? And any chance we can get a comparison of this year vs. last year?
I have just asked one of the leads, Bob Jonquet, if anybody knows the statistic from last year. So we can actually get an idea. Haven't heard anything back just yet. I'm working HQ again this year. So I'm sure it will be easy enough to keep tabs.
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I don't mind playing either, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were hiccups in reporting. I played in regular tables last year at gencon that were reported as core - at no point at the table was it mentioned the table was core. I wasn't the only PC at the table that was normal player either, nothing marked on the chronicle sheet either. I've defaulted back to what every VL has told me sheet trumps the online records.
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We have four regular venues in the greater Raleigh/Durham area of North Carolina. At the one that I organize, we run 2-3 Core tables a week (Wednesday nights are Core, Thursday nights are PFS, and Sundays vary). Right now, we're reporting more regular Core tables than PFS (unless there is a new scenario or module release, we frequently have issues getting enough players to make a table). Other venues in the area run mostly PFS, but there have been some Core tables offered. When attending local conventions, some of our Core players work with the organizers to set up Core tables and we have to be careful to make sure the sign-ups clearly differentiate, but it has worked out pretty well. I'd estimate that our Core player base is mixed about 50/50 between veterans who are looking to replay scenarios for credit and new players who enjoy the easier entry point. Our regulars have characters hitting 8th level at this point. I was also hoping to see some of the new players transition into playing PFS in addition to Core, but that hasn't been happening much. Probably when they catch up to having played everything in Core in a couple of years, they'll switch over. :)
Venture-Agent, Texas—Houston
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Core Campaign is going along okay in Houston. Not strong, but okay. I'm running a table once per week, and I just ran two tables at Comicpalooza, where there were several other Core tables that ran.
But Core Campaign is going along quite well online. You can play and GM a Core table on Roll20 at least once per week. I often play online Cores with seasoned players who have played and GM'ed almost everything in the regular campaign and who are enjoying a second run at those adventures with Core characters.
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You can use the Flaxseed Lodge to find Play by Post games here on the forums. Core's pretty popular there.
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I played at rknop's Core Serpent's Rise table at PaizoCon, and played in another Core game after the last slot Monday. So there was *some* Core at PaizoCon.
I feel that a golden opportunity for Core was missed, though. The afternoon "slots" were an overcrowded mess. Dozens of people (myself included) were turned away from playing anything. Warhorn was forbidden, for some reason. Next year, if the ball isn't dropped again, afternoon slots would be a great opportunity for Core. But if Warhorn is forbidden again, some level of independent organization will be required to pull it off. Maybe by using the forums.
In Core I have a Bard-8, Cleric-5, a couple 3s, and a couple 2s, but most of those levels come from GMing Core in my region for about a year. That venue closed up shop, and only recently has Core seen action again. High level tables are hard to put together.
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First, I don't think the PbP format really works for my.
Warhorn banned? WTF?!
The afternoon slots were a bit of a mess. The VL that was running it was doing the best he could given the limited amount of help he had access to.
Maybe next year this will have to coordinated this using outside channels. Also for tables we would probably just have to take over something in a passageway or something. To me it's stupid that people got turned away, there was plenty of room in the ballroom.
Personally, if there isn't any support for Core next year I may skip out on next year. I was hoping to jump into a Core pick up game but that didn't happen either.
"there was plenty of room in the ballroom."
Devil's advocate here, there may have been room, but were there enough willing GM's? That seems like a more likely limit setting circumstance than available room.
Of course the only conventions I've been to were Rincon.
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*sigh* I'd like to try to dispel some misunderstandings about the afternoon slots at PaizoCon, and would appreciate if folks could help me out by not being quite so hyperbolic.
1. No one "dropped the ball". A brand new thing was being tried, with one volunteer doing his best to coordinate. He worked within the guidelines and requirements he was given by Paizo.
2. Warhorn wasn't "banned". Paizo asked us to make use of their scheduling system so that they would have a record of everything, and so that people wouldn't have to register on a separate site. It also allowed them to print tickets for people's registration packets.
3. Yes, there was a lot of room in the ballroom. However, on the day of the banquet, we weren't allowed to use it, as they needed to clean and prepare the room. That left us moving to rooms that were not necessarily easy to find, and had to coordinate registered players and walk-ups in a small area.
> 3a. On the other days, the amount of room was irrelevant. The number of GMs offering to run games was the limiting factor.
Anyone interested in running games, core or otherwise, in the afternoon slots should watch for us to call for volunteers next year. With a first run behind us, we are looking at ways to improve the experience. Core options would be great if we have GMs interested in scheduling them and players who want to play them.