Alright, let's see how long we can stay civil about this. And remember the Rightbadfun Maxim:
If you're wondering why their paladins
Are played in a way that's wrong
Remind yourself, it's just one thread
But debates make threads go loooong
So, let's talk about paladins you've played, seen, or would like to play or see that don't fit the standard paladin mold.
For me, I'd like to try a paladin who doesn't believe in the death penalty. Maybe more for a story than a game, but a paladin who truly doesn't believe murder is ever justified without other options. This sort of paladin would willingly break the law to prevent criminals—at least those the paladin saw a high chance of being able to save—from being executed. She would always try to take prisoners, as long as doing so wouldn't endanger unduly the lives of bystanders, and would probably respond to the goblin baby trap by retiring from adventuring and founding a Mikaze-brand orphanage.
I've also been wanting to play a half-orc paladin/barbarian with, well, rage issues. Her main challenge is accepting that her anger comes from her, not her "orc blood", and that it's something she needs to address instead of just repressing and hating. Alternatively, she might fall after losing her temper at the wrong time.
The problem with the above concept is that it doesn't work mechanically. Barbarians can't have a lawful component in their alignment, and Paladins can't have a non-lawful component.
As far as paladins I've played? I have *one*. She's a former cleric of Grandmother Crow who adheres strongly to the ideals of Andoletta. During a certain scenario she encountered something that was 'evil' under normal circumstances, but had a 'smidgen' of good in them.
As a result, where one might expect DEATH, my paladin saw that smidgen, realized that the path to goodness is a very long, hard one, and talked to the entity and hopefully started it on the path to More Good.
The only time she'd 'go to town' on something Evil is if there was not even a smidgen of a chance of redemption.
Just plain slaughtering folks because they've made poor life choices is the easy way out for her and her deity. Being 'good' is hard work. Someone who says otherwise probably needs a good quarterstaff to the back of the head to set them straight.
While his concept doesn't work with barbarian, both Ranger and Fighter have archetypes that get rage and don't require a non-lawful alignment. There's also Bloodrager.
I had a goblin Paladin once that was a ton of fun. He completely misunderstood what his God was about. Since his deitys areas of concerns included cowards and refugees, he was perfect! Even gave Poggle a cool angel cat(half-celestial dire tiger) to ride around on!
Tanked Charisma, took an archetype that replaced Divine Grace, and the Oath that let him use Smite Evil uses to increase his reach. Very nonstandard, very fun.
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I once put together some notes for a party of pre-built adventurers called Headbreaker and Associates, the idea being that once I'd made sheets I could just hand them out and run a one-shot without the prep.
Anto Carrovolo, The Moral Compass
LG Human Swashbuckler 1/Paladin 2 (Oath of Loyalty, Divine Hunter)
There are not many paladins who will break a law if they can avoid it, but there has to be a limit. In particular, you don’t see why you shouldn’t be allowed to sleep with anyone you like. Preferably everyone you like. Simultaneously. When the guards came to arrest you for crimes against nature, you did the only dignified thing you could: you leapt out the window, scarpered for the port and jumped on a ship to this faraway land.
When you first heard of Headbreaker and his mercenaries, you paid them a visit to find out what evils they were committing, but they cunningly foiled you by offering you a beer and explaining they needed a paladin “for the look of the thing”. Now you keep a careful eye on them from within. You’re not sure you trust them, but you believe they have the potential to become genuine heroes. It’s not prestigious work, but if you’re honest (and you always are), you need the job.
You have hated and feared bugs ever since your first day as a paladin, when a giant centipede ate your right hand.
The idea was to give him light armour and one of the dexterity to damage options. His boss is an Orc who's struggling to convince himself that he's still evil and is only in it for the money (obviously not true), and the party's skill character is an alchemist with a giant bug theme.
My half-orc is covered nearly head-to-toe in tattoos, fights in a (glamered full plate) fancy gown, is trying her hardest to get the party half-elf and his girlfriend to just get married already, and met the party by stabilizing and freeing the goblins we'd just beat down. Different enough? ;)
I haven't played a paladin in a while. This was in an AD&D 2e game...
The character's name was Duke, and he was based on "The Man With No Name" from the Sergio Leone spaghetti westerns.
He was a hard-drinking, gruff, no-nonsense guy who smoked cigars and wore light armor. His primary weapon was a crossbow. He tended to wander the land as a mercenary, but usually ended up helping the downtrodden against their oppressors.
He was probably 5th level before the other players realized that Duke was a paladin.
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My PFS paladin has a level of swashbuckler, and as a paladin of Shelyn practices the art of dance by smiting evil with Dervish Dance. She also LOVES weddings and pretty dresses. She's not too sharp, but she tends to get along with people pretty well, and encourages her defeated enemies to give up "being mean" and take up painting or poetry instead.
Traumatized veteran living in an alleyway.
The Voices tell him not to consort with evil... while his ability to detect evil makes it hard for him to do much for himself.
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Friend of mine played a paladin of Shelyn.
He had realized her code stated nowhere that lying was forbidden, so he made lying into an art form. Not lying just for the heck of it, but if he had to choose between lying and confrontation he'd lie his ass off everytime to protect his enemies from an untimely death.
"Why of course we have the permission to escort these prisoners out of here, didn't the chief tell you about it?"
"No, we are not the Pathfinders you are trying to capture. We saw them a few towns over, though."
He was fully aware to expect table variation with his interpretation though (this was PFS).
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The problem with the above concept is that it doesn't work mechanically. Barbarians can't have a lawful component in their alignment, and Paladins can't have a non-lawful component.
Yeah, but alignment requirements for barbarians have always been a dumb holdover. Screw that noise.
Oh, I also had an orc paladin/fighter/rogue (this was before swashbuckler) who was basically Captain Jack Sparrow. Kabongak da Barrow (of the Barrow Wights clan) was a paladin who claimed to hear the voices of the Empyreal Lords in his head, guiding him across the sea on increasingly terrible boats that tended to sink before he even reached land. He was mean, and erratic (angels talking in your head 24/7 will do that to you), and constantly had to reign in the urge to just decapitate something that was pissing him off.
The idea with Kabongak was to make a paladin whose big struggle was more ethical than moral. Doing good wasn't much of a problem (aside from the aforementioned violent tendencies). Doing good in an orderly manner? That was hard for him.
Paladin? I don't know what that is.
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Although I haven't played it, or even fleshed out exactly how such a character would work, I've thought about playing up the strange immunities that paladins get. The core paladin, even at low levels, is completely immune to fear and disease, and later is immune to charms and compulsions.
A paladin never gets sick and can move among the infected. A paladin is always in control of their own mind. In the usual heroic tropes, these manifest as admirable personal qualities, bolstered by faith and divine magic. But taken another way, it can make a paladin seem super-human(oid) to the point of even being a non-human(oid) alien. The paladin becomes angelic--not in the sense of highly moral and capital-LG Lawful Good, but an entity that has a mind incomprehensible to a normal mortal mind.
I mean, a person who no longer feels fear? That's bizarre! Perhaps this paladin begins as merely a faithful servant of their deity and the forces of good, but still experiences normal emotions. As they gain levels, though, they become stranger and more alien. As they become better at defeating the forces of evil and protecting people, they grow more and more inscrutable to the very people they strive to protect.
The other interpretation, of course, is that a paladin feels fear—just can't be controlled by it. Just like she's immune to charms. It doesn't mean she can't make friends, but you can't force friendship from her.
But I do like the idea of taking it very literally.
I've seen two very effective non standard paladins.
The first had a split personality. Some times, he was good and played a reasonably standard paladin. Other times, he was evil and played an antipaladin of the same level with the same feats and choices. The good version wasn't aware of the evil one and the evil one was trying to keep itself secret. The GM cooperated well and it took everyone else a while to realize what was happening.
The second was more of an attempt to push paladin codes to the limit. He dedicated his paladin to perfection. Which meant that if you weren't prefect you had to be eliminated. If you were perfect he would follow you to his death, because your orders had to be perfect if you were. So unlike standard paladins, he was perfectly happy to murder, slaughter, steal from, and otherwise ignore most NPCs. Working with the party was slightly harder, but we found a way.
My Paladin was raised by a band of not-so-nefarious pirates after a Bodak transformed his small village into a ghost town when he was about six years old. As such, he is a pretty good swimmer and he tends to stretch the Paladin's code in some places.
He always tells the truth (though rarely the whole truth). If something registers as evil, it is usually dead within the next three to five minutes. If he needs to interrogate someone, he will usually do so by threatening their pets (this has only happened once however, and technically speaking the guy's "pets" were a pair of giant rats).
Oh, and he rides a gecko.
My ideal for a non-standard Paladin is a concept I've wanted to try for years, but it would require buy-in from all involved. Takomachi Nanoha.
Nanoha ability wise seems more like a sorcerer, or at the least a magus. The important part is that her attitude and core beliefs are truly the best representation I can think of for everything a classic LG Paladin could be. She fights for justice and to protect others, yet her greatest principle is forgiveness and believing in the essential goodness of all. She brings incredible force to bear in her battles, but she never fights to kill. For those who are TV Tropers, she's the quintessential example of Defeat Means Friendship, as she seeks to understand her foes and in overcoming them offer them a chance at a better life doing the right thing.
Power and justice not just tempered by, but truly derived from compassion.
I once wrote up a Paladin who grew up in Andorra. Having grown up under democracy, she dislikes the very concept of monarchy, and does not trust royalty. She knows better than to openly disrespect aristocrats or start revolts (She actually thinks Andorra got lucky, and Galt is a more typical result), but she is no friend to the gentry. She also believes that law goes both ways, and that governments have responsibilities to their people and must be held accountable (which should be done by holding elections and having strict rules about what powers and responsibilities a ruler or official has). This has actually made her increasingly critical of Andorra itself, which seems increasingly not accountable. Civilians must obey the law, but rulers and the rich don't always have to, and that violates the whole purpose for having laws. She doesn't really have a solution to any of this or a way to spread democracy, however, which worries her. So she spends most of her effort on helping authorities maintain law and order at the low level where people slip between the cracks, and tries to avoid politics.
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Zombie paladin of a forgotten goddess. The goddess didn't have other followers to call upon so she had to rely on one that had already been laid to rest. She also couldnt spring for a true ressurection and had to go with a holy animate dead instead.
I once wrote up a Paladin who grew up in Andorra. Having grown up under democracy, she dislikes the very concept of monarchy, and does not trust royalty. She knows better than to openly disrespect aristocrats or start revolts (She actually thinks Andorra got lucky, and Galt is a more typical result), but she is no friend to the gentry. She also believes that law goes both ways, and that governments have responsibilities to their people and must be held accountable (which democracy is a tool for doing). This has actually made her increasingly critical of Andorra itself, which seems increasingly not accountable. She doesn't really have a solution to any of this or a way to spread democracy, however, which worries her. So she spends most of her effort on helping authorities maintain law and order at the low level where people slip between the cracks, and tries to avoid politics.I'm pretty sure that Andorra is a monarchy though. :D Fairly unusual one, but still a monarchy.
I really debated posting something like this... My better angels won out, though.
My ideal for a non-standard Paladin is a concept I've wanted to try for years, but it would require buy-in from all involved. Takomachi Nanoha.
Nanoha ability wise seems more like a sorcerer, or at the least a magus. The important part is that her attitude and core beliefs are truly the best representation I can think of for everything a classic LG Paladin could be. She fights for justice and to protect others, yet her greatest principle is forgiveness and believing in the essential goodness of all. She brings incredible force to bear in her battles, but she never fights to kill. For those who are TV Tropers, she's the quintessential example of Defeat Means Friendship, as she seeks to understand her foes and in overcoming them offer them a chance at a better life doing the right thing.
Power and justice not just tempered by, but truly derived from compassion.
Defeat Means Friendship???
Sorry it's been done, and not well, see here.
Nah. A Vulcan Ghandi expy that casually chats about pseudophilosophical ideas is no comparison.
It's been done by plenty of other people already, but I've always been a fan of the 'paladin in everything but class' and the 'paladin-wannabe'. For example, my gnome 'paladin' of Sarenrae - a crossblooded bloodrager (Celestial/Destined). As far as she knows, Sarenrae is the one to thank for the powers her bloodlines give her.
My Paladin became very non-standard by the time Wrath of the Righteous was ended.
Summoning became a thing to her thanks to her dual pathing Guardian/Heirophant, and she was the major (not only) healer of her party.
And she got a special dispensation to remain a Paladin from Iomedae despite her alignment shifting to Neutral Good.
I've seen two very effective non standard paladins.
The first had a split personality. Some times, he was good and played a reasonably standard paladin. Other times, he was evil and played an antipaladin of the same level with the same feats and choices. The good version wasn't aware of the evil one and the evil one was trying to keep itself secret. The GM cooperated well and it took everyone else a while to realize what was happening.
The second was more of an attempt to push paladin codes to the limit. He dedicated his paladin to perfection. Which meant that if you weren't prefect you had to be eliminated. If you were perfect he would follow you to his death, because your orders had to be perfect if you were. So unlike standard paladins, he was perfectly happy to murder, slaughter, steal from, and otherwise ignore most NPCs. Working with the party was slightly harder, but we found a way.
I really can't see your second example remaining a Paladin for very long. Being a Paladin can't be done by working a Saint/MurderHobo balance.
I had a grizzled old paladin of Aegirran (god of dreams, sailing and voyages) in a Skull and Shackles game. He was fairly gruff, but good at heart. He had perform (sing) to sing sea shanties and always wanted to explore and sea what was just over the horizon.
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This paladin's original character concept came when I realized "Hey wait, when I kill an evil person doesn't that just cause more evil because they become a demon/devil/whatever?" I put this character together before a local gaming con that might have been my first time with PFS. I ended up not doing any PFS events though.
I have seen one player who plays a paladin but really shouldn't. Sure, he roleplays it okay and hasn't fallen or anything, but take this as an example (From Stedding of the Hill Giant Chief.)
Paladin: How is the feast hall lit?
DM: Big cooking fires.
Paladin: OH! We should put them out and then murder them in the dark!
Obviously his paladin didn't actually say that, but it wasn't meant as a joke. It's even worse when you consider that he was a paladin of Pholtus, god of .
Luckily for me, my fun experiences with paladins did not end there. This paladin (Just to be clear, a different paladin than the murder in darkness one) is on the level of Miko Miazaki from Order of the Stick.
GM: You reach a large, two story inn on the road.
Paladin: I use detect evil.
GM: You detect a small amount of evil in one of the rooms on the second floor.
Paladin I go in, yell "Everyone get out!" and then throw an alchemist's fire at the nearest alcohol barrel.
Boom.
Unfortunately the party had split, so he was alone.
Stealth and infiltration focused paladin of Kelinahat. Premise being that she travels the land working herself into cults, vampire dens, evil organizations until she can strike at the root and purge it all. Usually posing as sword for hire, hiding her alignment and so on. While she doesn't lie (which would make her fall), she does allow people to make false assumptions about her and goes from there.
For example, to infiltrate an organization bristling with Dispater-ites, she plays up the lawfulness and dedication to order, perseverance, and strength, thus coming off as your very standard stick in the mud believer out to oppose demons and chaos. Easy for a paladin. Last time this happened, rumor spread that she was likely a hell-knight on assignment, even.
I realize that some DMs would not stand for having paladins who participate in deception of this sort, but hey. My DM and I enjoyed exploring the more 'unknown' Heavenly patrons and what their spheres are.
I have a character concept that I'm planning to use for the next adventure path I play in (my current Skulls and Shackles one doesn't seem like the right place for it :) ) for a Tiefling paladin of Iomedae that completely distrusts their own sense of good and evil due to their evil-outsider heritage. So any time a hint of moral quandary comes up, they take the most Good and Lawful option just to be on the safe side.
"Sure, its 2 days journey to the nearest town, and those sleeping death cult members we are here to stop are completely evil to the core. I can totally see how executing them in their sleep instead of taking them prisoner and hauling them back for trial later would probably be safest for the party, and perfectly fine with the Gods. But that could just be my demon-blood trying to tempt me into thinking that, so I'm going to have to go with the taking them prisoner path."
I had a paladin once. He was a Holy Gun follower of Zohls. He was basically a old west sheriff mixed with film-noir detective. I wish I remembered what his name was, but I lost his sheet a while a go.
For paladins, I recommend following an Empyreal lord. Just imagine a paladin for Lymnieris (prostitutes and virginity), or Kelinahat (spies and stealth). They would be lots of fun, and would present a different take on Lawful Good.
Great, now I want to be a paladin again.
Or, if you want to be really erratic, claim to follow all the Empyreal Lords, like Kabongak da Barrow.