"Weakest" feat / character option you've actually taken?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I made a spiked chain-wielding kender rogue once in the days of 3.5. I really hate d4s, but a Small-sized spiked chain does 1d6. The -4 Size penalty was bit of a challenge, but it was fun.

Technically, this character never existed because it was unmade by a Charisma-draining undead that wiped my character from existence and history and all written records and all characters' memories.


My second Pathfinder character, 3rd level Grippli Alchemist, had two vestigial arms. He is now a very recurrent NPC.


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Oh, a straight rogue.


Does Fast Learner count? I think I'm going to be going down the Master Craftsman route myself here soon.


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Dosgamer wrote:
I played a druid who took spell focus conjuration in order to get augment summoning. Pretty sure the spell focus feat was never used (since initially I summoned things to fight for me and later on I was using wildshape and buffing myself/AC). It was just considered a feat tax.

I have an Earth(Caves) druid where SF:Conjuration pays off because of the Create Pit domain spells. :-)


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@Buri Reborn: Depends on who you ask, I've seen someone call that feat "a strong feat choice" for a rogue!


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Duke Baron wrote:
I was once a Kobold paladin. I think that speaks for itself.

It tells me you likely roflstomped enemies if you did it right. >_>

Kobolds, particularly kobold Paladins, are in fact not so horrible as a race, even as a martial. Their biggest disadvantage is the -4 Strength but they are good at ranged combat (size + dex = +2 to hit / ranged), and are remarkably decent at absorbing incoming attacks (Dex + Size + Natural armor = +15% physical evasion). Paladins have a ton of ways to push bonus damage (smite, divine favor, and with a feat even greater invisibility or divine power), and have in-class access to a powerful mount.

What this means is that a kobold can spend most of their time riding about shooting stuff to death with their ranged weapons, and then when they wade into melee combat, their innate AC boosts mixed with a shield, combined with Lay on Hands makes them a hard nut to crack.

A simple 15 point buy netting 12, 16, 8, 7, 9, 14 is a pretty solid spread. Plus you and your mount both have Stealth as a class skill and you have a high Initiative. The moment you land lay on hands & divine grace you'll be solid.

The lowest levels would be the hardest time but by mid levels a kobold Paladin would be very, very viable. Especially as mithral armor becomes more affordable you can begin wearing heavier armors with no problems, and you can take magic item creation feats (because you're a spellcaster) and make lots of really good stuff for you and your mount.


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My 20th-level PFS character has Rumormonger.

-Matt

Liberty's Edge

Ashiel wrote:
Duke Baron wrote:
I was once a Kobold paladin. I think that speaks for itself.

It tells me you likely roflstomped enemies if you did it right. >_>

Kobolds, particularly kobold Paladins, are in fact not so horrible as a race, even as a martial. Their biggest disadvantage is the -4 Strength but they are good at ranged combat (size + dex = +2 to hit / ranged), and are remarkably decent at absorbing incoming attacks (Dex + Size + Natural armor = +15% physical evasion). Paladins have a ton of ways to push bonus damage (smite, divine favor, and with a feat even greater invisibility or divine power), and have in-class access to a powerful mount.

What this means is that a kobold can spend most of their time riding about shooting stuff to death with their ranged weapons, and then when they wade into melee combat, their innate AC boosts mixed with a shield, combined with Lay on Hands makes them a hard nut to crack.

A simple 15 point buy netting 12, 16, 8, 7, 9, 14 is a pretty solid spread. Plus you and your mount both have Stealth as a class skill and you have a high Initiative. The moment you land lay on hands & divine grace you'll be solid.

The lowest levels would be the hardest time but by mid levels a kobold Paladin would be very, very viable. Especially as mithral armor becomes more affordable you can begin wearing heavier armors with no problems, and you can take magic item creation feats (because you're a spellcaster) and make lots of really good stuff for you and your mount.

What feat?


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lucky7 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Duke Baron wrote:
I was once a Kobold paladin. I think that speaks for itself.

It tells me you likely roflstomped enemies if you did it right. >_>

Kobolds, particularly kobold Paladins, are in fact not so horrible as a race, even as a martial. Their biggest disadvantage is the -4 Strength but they are good at ranged combat (size + dex = +2 to hit / ranged), and are remarkably decent at absorbing incoming attacks (Dex + Size + Natural armor = +15% physical evasion). Paladins have a ton of ways to push bonus damage (smite, divine favor, and with a feat even greater invisibility or divine power), and have in-class access to a powerful mount.

What this means is that a kobold can spend most of their time riding about shooting stuff to death with their ranged weapons, and then when they wade into melee combat, their innate AC boosts mixed with a shield, combined with Lay on Hands makes them a hard nut to crack.

A simple 15 point buy netting 12, 16, 8, 7, 9, 14 is a pretty solid spread. Plus you and your mount both have Stealth as a class skill and you have a high Initiative. The moment you land lay on hands & divine grace you'll be solid.

The lowest levels would be the hardest time but by mid levels a kobold Paladin would be very, very viable. Especially as mithral armor becomes more affordable you can begin wearing heavier armors with no problems, and you can take magic item creation feats (because you're a spellcaster) and make lots of really good stuff for you and your mount.

What feat?

Unsanctioned Knowledge, allows you to select a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell from Bards, Clerics and something else and add it to your list.


Ashiel wrote:
lucky7 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Duke Baron wrote:
I was once a Kobold paladin. I think that speaks for itself.

It tells me you likely roflstomped enemies if you did it right. >_>

Kobolds, particularly kobold Paladins, are in fact not so horrible as a race, even as a martial. Their biggest disadvantage is the -4 Strength but they are good at ranged combat (size + dex = +2 to hit / ranged), and are remarkably decent at absorbing incoming attacks (Dex + Size + Natural armor = +15% physical evasion). Paladins have a ton of ways to push bonus damage (smite, divine favor, and with a feat even greater invisibility or divine power), and have in-class access to a powerful mount.

What this means is that a kobold can spend most of their time riding about shooting stuff to death with their ranged weapons, and then when they wade into melee combat, their innate AC boosts mixed with a shield, combined with Lay on Hands makes them a hard nut to crack.

A simple 15 point buy netting 12, 16, 8, 7, 9, 14 is a pretty solid spread. Plus you and your mount both have Stealth as a class skill and you have a high Initiative. The moment you land lay on hands & divine grace you'll be solid.

The lowest levels would be the hardest time but by mid levels a kobold Paladin would be very, very viable. Especially as mithral armor becomes more affordable you can begin wearing heavier armors with no problems, and you can take magic item creation feats (because you're a spellcaster) and make lots of really good stuff for you and your mount.

What feat?

Unsanctioned Knowledge, allows you to select a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell from Bards, Clerics and something else and add it to your list.

I never get tired of throwing divine power on something that already has full BAB.


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Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
lucky7 wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Duke Baron wrote:
I was once a Kobold paladin. I think that speaks for itself.

It tells me you likely roflstomped enemies if you did it right. >_>

Kobolds, particularly kobold Paladins, are in fact not so horrible as a race, even as a martial. Their biggest disadvantage is the -4 Strength but they are good at ranged combat (size + dex = +2 to hit / ranged), and are remarkably decent at absorbing incoming attacks (Dex + Size + Natural armor = +15% physical evasion). Paladins have a ton of ways to push bonus damage (smite, divine favor, and with a feat even greater invisibility or divine power), and have in-class access to a powerful mount.

What this means is that a kobold can spend most of their time riding about shooting stuff to death with their ranged weapons, and then when they wade into melee combat, their innate AC boosts mixed with a shield, combined with Lay on Hands makes them a hard nut to crack.

A simple 15 point buy netting 12, 16, 8, 7, 9, 14 is a pretty solid spread. Plus you and your mount both have Stealth as a class skill and you have a high Initiative. The moment you land lay on hands & divine grace you'll be solid.

The lowest levels would be the hardest time but by mid levels a kobold Paladin would be very, very viable. Especially as mithral armor becomes more affordable you can begin wearing heavier armors with no problems, and you can take magic item creation feats (because you're a spellcaster) and make lots of really good stuff for you and your mount.

What feat?

Unsanctioned Knowledge, allows you to select a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th level spell from Bards, Clerics and something else and add it to your list.

I never get tired of throwing divine power on something that already has full BAB.

It's pretty glorious. Alternatively if you have money to burn and item creation feats, you could make an x/day item of divine power and pick up greater invisibility instead, but I prefer doing that with greater invisibility since divine power cares more about your CL than greater invisibility does, and it's cheaper to buy +CL items than it is to create a CL 20 divine power item.


Ashiel wrote:


It's pretty glorious. Alternatively if you have money to burn and item creation feats, you could make an x/day item of...

As someone's who's tried to make a CL 20 divine power item, I would certainly agree with that.

I've also had a lot of fun with dance of a hundred cuts, but then again, I also had someone willing to spam moment of greatness on me.


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Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Ashiel wrote:


It's pretty glorious. Alternatively if you have money to burn and item creation feats, you could make an x/day item of...

As someone's who's tried to make a CL 20 divine power item, I would certainly agree with that.

I've also had a lot of fun with dance of a hundred cuts, but then again, I also had someone willing to spam moment of greatness on me.

My brother did something like that in a game I was GMing. He was a Paladin with item creation feats and decided to craft a magic item of divine power using the same formula as boots of speed, which is 1/day with the duration divided into individual rounds/minutes/hours/whatever.

That sets the cost at 32,000 gp for 20 rounds worth of divine power/day split up into individual rounds.

He flavored it so when active, a pair of glowing angel wings appeared on his back. He also added a fly spell to it that worked in much the same way. So he would angelic leap into a battle and mulch something, then return to being a normal Paladin. Then when the time came, pop wings and mulch something, etc.

It was kind of like this. He was a sword & board Paladin.


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Ashiel wrote:
Serghar Cromwell wrote:
Ashiel wrote:


It's pretty glorious. Alternatively if you have money to burn and item creation feats, you could make an x/day item of...

As someone's who's tried to make a CL 20 divine power item, I would certainly agree with that.

I've also had a lot of fun with dance of a hundred cuts, but then again, I also had someone willing to spam moment of greatness on me.

My brother did something like that in a game I was GMing. He was a Paladin with item creation feats and decided to craft a magic item of divine power using the same formula as boots of speed, which is 1/day with the duration divided into individual rounds/minutes/hours/whatever.

That sets the cost at 32,000 gp for 20 rounds worth of divine power/day split up into individual rounds.

He flavored it so when active, a pair of glowing angel wings appeared on his back. He also added a fly spell to it that worked in much the same way. So he would angelic leap into a battle and mulch something, then return to being a normal Paladin. Then when the time came, pop wings and mulch something, etc.

It was kind of like this. He was a sword & board Paladin.

I might have to steal that for one of my players. He has a gestalt paladin/dragon sorcerer who'll be all over that if I fluff it as dragon wings.

I myself once had a paladin who did the angel thing, but it was with the angelic aspect line and a normally-cast divine power. He was also a vampire. That campaign was weird.


Duke Baron wrote:
I was once a Kobold paladin. I think that speaks for itself.

I played a kobold ninja/monk. In 3.5. :p

Liberty's Edge

I played a Halfling Rogue once. Pre-Unchained. This was a mistake.

On the other hand, in terms of actual Feats, I've used Cosmopolitan a few times (and never regretted it), and have used Skill Focus to great effect on several characters (mostly Bards...it's actually really nice combined with Versatile Performance).


Greater wild empathy: plants

The +2 is meh and it hasn't come up yet but...

all of the other options are worse. Vermin hearted is far better for vermin and the other options are outight traps, as they don't actually WORK on anything. Nothing in the elemental lycanthrope or fey catagory is dumb enough for wild empathy to work on.


I'm debating on making a metal oracle gnome that uses craft (weapons) and craft (armor) to make magic arms and armor instead of spellcraft and give her an obsession with forging. It would be a lot easier of a decision if bows used the same crafting skill.

Liberty's Edge

HyperMissingno wrote:
I'm debating on making a metal oracle gnome that uses craft (weapons) and craft (armor) to make magic arms and armor instead of spellcraft and give her an obsession with forging. It would be a lot easier of a decision if bows used the same crafting skill.

This actually has the very real advantage of allowing you to use Crafter's Fortune. Which allows for some seriously better checks.


Huh, might be good if she gets paired with a wizard or alchemist then.

Liberty's Edge

HyperMissingno wrote:
Huh, might be good if she gets paired with a wizard or alchemist then.

Or buys a Wand and has some UMD. Or, hell, uses Potions. You really only need the spell once per item crafted, and you can time it right pretty easily.

When talking magic item crafting 15-50 gp per item is such a small added cost it almost doesn't matter, so having someone who actually has the spell is more a convenience than a necessity.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I once played with a guy who played an aristocrat/bard in 3.5. We all got along better with the gnome cleric/rogue he got from Leadership. He even went on some solo adventures against some orc tribes and somehow lived. He eventually picked up some Truespeech, too, though.

The rest of the party was a switch-hitter scout (me), a ranger/wizard/truespeaker/griffon riding PrC, and a paladin with uber-stats (15/16/16/17/17/18 or something like that).

Shadow Lodge

LittleMissNaga wrote:
The Shifty Mongoose wrote:

In an AP, I made up a dwarven (Crossbow) fighter. Rather than take Crossbow Mastery, I was able to make Deadly Aim/Vital Strike readied attacks that sniped enemy spellcasters and shot ninja out of mid-air. I also gave him Master Craftsman ("Legendary Craftsdwarf" as I called it) so that he could make magic weapons for his team.

The GM was apparently frustrated by that guy and what he was doing. So what did she use to hard-counter my PC?

Monks. With Deflect Arrows.

I also had unintentionally got on another player's nerves with my Marksdwarf, so when other PCs died and got replaced, everyone agreed to make him a new PC's Leadership cohort. It all worked out perfectly.

Those monks and their feat were actually just a part of the AP that happened to counter your build very hard, not something custom that I put in. I quite enjoyed Duthner, even if his name was a small nightmare to spell properly (which I likely just misspelled again).

Aahh. I'm even more relieved. I'm glad you liked Duthnur, and I might even bring around a relative of his if I ever end up in Giantslayer - a dwarven warpriest whose Sacred Weapon comes from Weapon Focus (Improvised Weapon).

All he needs is Throw Anything and a GM who'll allow it, and he'll be throwing giants' toenail clippings with the deadliness of a chakram. Or something like that.


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Serghar Cromwell wrote:

I might have to steal that for one of my players. He has a gestalt paladin/dragon sorcerer who'll be all over that if I fluff it as dragon wings.

I myself once had a paladin who did the angel thing, but it was with the angelic aspect line and a normally-cast divine power. He was also a vampire. That campaign was weird.

It's a really cool magic item. I tend to drop a lot of magic items like that as loot in my games (things with x/day effects, or x-rounds/day and stuff) because they're fun, often cheap, and so easy to saturate with flavor.

For example, at low levels I included a +1 heavy steel shield with a dragon's face on the front that could be used to fire up to 5d4 points of fire damage from the shield as burning hands. You could do any combination of d4s until you had used 5/day, so you could do 5 little 1d4 bursts of fire or one 5d4 burst of fire from the shield. Save DC was low (11 'cause 1st level spell) but it was that player's prized magic item for a long time (and he deemed that it must be upgraded rather than discarded).

In another game, I had a bow that could be used for an inevitable strike a few times per day (inevitable strike is a psionic power that gives a +5 to hit & ignore concealment on the attack as a swift action, or +20 to your next attack by burning a standard action beforehand, like true strike).

Made a pair of healing boots that healed you when you used a move action to move which was pretty fun and the player after finding them started zipping around in combat more often to keep healing. :P

So much fun to be had.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I had a character that began with Boots of Stomping at 1st level and kept them for a dozen levels because they were so cool. He ended up being a "trinket user." He was a 3.5 chaos gnome dragon disciple, so he loaded up on minor magic items to use as his trump cards. He was fun.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Had a paladin with EWP: Bastard Sword, a rogue with Combat Expertise, and my holy vindicator has Vital Strike.

Oh, and 3.5 monk.


Buri Reborn wrote:
Does Fast Learner count? I think I'm going to be going down the Master Craftsman route myself here soon.

Not really.

Nearly half my characters have Fast Learner.

Extra skill points can completely change how well a character functions out of combat.

Liberty's Edge

I had a fighter who considered himself a ladies man, and took skill focus: profession - gardener, as he maintained a set of roses and would grow a new breed for whoever his new prize may be so he could always bring her a unique flower.


Snowlilly wrote:
Buri Reborn wrote:
Does Fast Learner count? I think I'm going to be going down the Master Craftsman route myself here soon.

Not really.

Nearly half my characters have Fast Learner.

Extra skill points can completely change how well a character functions out of combat.

Do they have toughness too? Because toughness is strictly better


Take both!


Then take Open Minded and get +2 Hp / +2 skill points per level. :D


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Buri Reborn wrote:
Does Fast Learner count? I think I'm going to be going down the Master Craftsman route myself here soon.

Not really.

Nearly half my characters have Fast Learner.

Extra skill points can completely change how well a character functions out of combat.

Do they have toughness too? Because toughness is strictly better

They are not mutually exclusive.

Some do, most do not - I tend to choose HP while leveling and grab Fast Learner around 5th level.

Ashiel wrote:
Then take Open Minded and get +2 Hp / +2 skill points per level. :D

You just need to convince your DM to allow third party feats.


Snowlilly wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Snowlilly wrote:
Buri Reborn wrote:
Does Fast Learner count? I think I'm going to be going down the Master Craftsman route myself here soon.

Not really.

Nearly half my characters have Fast Learner.

Extra skill points can completely change how well a character functions out of combat.

Do they have toughness too? Because toughness is strictly better

They are not mutually exclusive.

Some do, most do not - I tend to choose HP while leveling and grab Fast Learner around 5th level.

Ashiel wrote:
Then take Open Minded and get +2 Hp / +2 skill points per level. :D
You just need to convince your DM to allow third party feats.

Not I. Any GM that bans psionics is a GM that isn't worth my time.


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If a GM is going to take any third party stuff, it is likely DreamScarred Press. I doubt a GM would refuse you taking Open Minded as a feat unless they are refusing all 3rd party stuff on principal.

As for the weakest feat, I had a Paladin that took Skill Focus Craft (Armour), Master Craftsman, and Craft Arms and Armour. He complained loudly to every blacksmith that their armour wasn't good enough. He never got to finish his first Full Breastplate before the campaign ended.


I have a gnome wizard who's main attack was to throw clubs, and he would Brew Potions into various pastries with Profession (Baker).

He has never been played as the GM at the time would not allow it because he thought it was a poor concept.

Sovereign Court

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Fromper wrote:
I'm talking about the stuff that makes the other players at the table roll their eyes and assume you don't know what you're doing. Maybe they're right, or maybe you're just a mad genius.

I had a bard who insisted on buying MW candies in each town. Yes. Masterwork i.e. +50gp their listed price of GM made up 1sp...

After knocking unconscious the last minion in an encounter, he'd slip a candy in the bad guy's mouth. After the candy was melted, he'd wake the lame-o, and say "Do not worry about that sweet taste in your mouth," before proceeding to interrogate him. Once, he said it while tightening his belt buckle.

Sovereign Court

KenderKin wrote:
The additional traits feat!

That thing can be very useful for some builds... 5 traits at level 1 can fix a lot of class-skill gaps... had a player with human fighter that made good use of this.

Sovereign Court

Christopher Dudley wrote:
My shark-man synthesist took Keen Scent as an evolution, which is practically useless, but he's a shark, and that's what they do.

Scent ability is highly underrated. I screw challenge invisible players all the time with it.

Sovereign Court

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Horse with skill focus: senator?

Was the horse named Wiener?

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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My 3.5 group got stuck with a pregnant were-dolphin monk/cleric that refused to fight or cast spells during combat. That player was eventually invited to play elsewhere.

Sovereign Court

elcaleeb wrote:

I have a gnome wizard who's main attack was to throw clubs, and he would Brew Potions into various pastries with Profession (Baker).

He has never been played as the GM at the time would not allow it because he thought it was a poor concept.

This for the win. "The character was judged 'too weak for play' by the GM"

LOL!

Sovereign Court

SmiloDan wrote:

My 3.5 group got stuck with a pregnant were-dolphin monk/cleric that refused to fight or cast spells during combat. That player was eventually invited to play elsewhere.

WTF????

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

My 3.5 group got stuck with a pregnant were-dolphin monk/cleric that refused to fight or cast spells during combat. That player was eventually invited to play elsewhere.

WTF????

Yeah, he was much more into roleplaying than hack-n-slash. At least he played with us during an underwater portion of the campaign. My druid got a lot of use out of water breathing and summoned dolphins vs. evil sharks.

Silver Crusade

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
KenderKin wrote:
The additional traits feat!
That thing can be very useful for some builds... 5 traits at level 1 can fix a lot of class-skill gaps... had a player with human fighter that made good use of this.

Yeah, I took that one on my witch recently to turn her into a diplomancer and UMD expert (one trait to get diplomacy as a class skill, and two to make diplomacy and UMD use int instead of cha). I wish I could've gotten even more traits on her, as there were still 3 more I wanted, so I had to settle.

Sovereign Court

SmiloDan wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

My 3.5 group got stuck with a pregnant were-dolphin monk/cleric that refused to fight or cast spells during combat. That player was eventually invited to play elsewhere.

WTF????
Yeah, he was much more into roleplaying than hack-n-slash. At least he played with us during an underwater portion of the campaign. My druid got a lot of use out of water breathing and summoned dolphins vs. evil sharks.

WTF??? why is it always the dudes that roleplay pregnant females?


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Maybe because that's something dudes can't do in real life?

The 98lb. girl at the table plays a barbarian that can benchpress Godzilla. It's fantasy role-play.

A dude plays a character who's a mother or soon to be mother, and suddenly it's weird.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
WTF??? why is it always the dudes that roleplay pregnant females?

I'm pretty sure there is an answer to that question

I'm absolutely sure it's not worth the sanity loss to find it.


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How the hell do you become a were-dolphin?


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HyperMissingno wrote:
How the hell do you become a were-dolphin?

Cast "Bestow Porpoise"

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