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Starfinder General Discussion

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And what to you want? You could write up a sheet for each ship have position vectors, velocity vectors, and acceleration vectors, and then use the distance formula for determining range, that will work too!

Position vector would be (x, y, z), Velocity vector would be <u, v, w>, and the acceleration vector would be <<a, b, c>>. Your enemy's position, velocity, and acceleration vectors would b expressed this way: (x1,y1, z1), <u1, v1, w1>, and <<a1, b1, c1>>. If you are maneuvering, your acceleration vectors are not zero otherwise they are <<0, 0, 0>> which means your velocity vector doesn't change. To find your velocity vector at the end of your movement phase you add the acceleration vector to it in this fashion: <u+a, v+b, w+c> and the result can b expressed as <U, V, W> in capital letters. To find your position vector at the end of the movement phase, you would do this:
(x+(u+U)/2, y+(v+V)/2, z+(w+W)/2) to get (X, Y, Z) you do the same thing with your opponent's ships to get (X1, Y1, Z1), To find the distance between your ship and your opponent's, you apply the distance formula Distance = ((X-X1)^2+(Y-Y1)^2+(Z-Z1)^2)^0.5.
Once you have distance, you apply your range modifier to your roll to hit, you roll a 20-sided die and if you hit, you roll for damage.

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There might be a segment of players who would enjoy a game that feels more like a science experiment or physics test than a recreational activity, but I'm not one of those people.

Combining vectors isn't hard, it is simply math. if you want something hard, try calculus! You also don't have the problem of spaceships running off the edge of he map, and you can do it in 3 dimensions, which is hard to represent on a 2-dimensional surface with miniatures. She was looking alternate ways to simulate space combat without miniatures on a map. What I could use is maps on my computer and a paint program, I have a number of icons that represent ships and I copy and past them on the map, move them around on the map to represent their relative positions to one another, don't need to buy physical miniatures here. One can also draw the vectors on the map to show you where to place the icons for the next round.

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Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Combining vectors isn't hard, it is simply math.

But it isn't _interesting_, which is pretty important for a game.

Keeping track of 9 variables per ship just for movement just isn't necessary, and adds nothing. From a game design perspective, it is a terrible idea.

I'm a Physics and Maths teacher, and I agree with Matthew Shelton.

Actually it isn't fun even if the computer does the vector calculations. They did it in the old Traveller CRPG from the early 90s.

If you combine it with graphics maybe.

The Traveller crpg had graphics. It was awful. The space combat was, anyway. Get past that and the rest of the game was quite good.

The point of Starfinder is it includes thing because they are fun, not because they are realistic.

Starfinder space combat appears to be based on the FASA Star Trek system (but without the redshirts). Which I can tell you from experience is a massive amount of fun, but not remotely realistic.

Fardragon wrote:

The Traveller crpg had graphics. It was awful. The space combat was, anyway. Get past that and the rest of the game was quite good.

The point of Starfinder is it includes thing because they are fun, not because they are realistic.

Starfinder space combat appears to be based on the FASA Star Trek system (but without the redshirts). Which I can tell you from experience is a massive amount of fun, but not remotely realistic.

Well, considering it's space opera realism went out the window a long time ago.

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For Starfinder, realism was never in the window. It was never conceived as a realistic or hard SF game, just a fun game.

Precisely. Fun comes first.

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Calculus wasn't hard, and often it was intellectually stimulating to find the derivative or integral of some wacky equation, but I wouldn't actually call it 'fun'.

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

If calculus isn't fun, you're doing it wrong.

(Says the guy who, strangely doesn't get invited to many parties...) :p

Now, there really is a niche for complex rangefinding in fantasy combat. They are MMORPGs. Or if you want live-action, you-as-the-character roleplaying, there's LARPs for that. But for each playing style there are rules which are playable and easy to follow, and rules which aren't, and they aren't the same from style to style.

small question about primal worlds( worlds that not hit sufficient development threshold) since we gonna eventually discover one of them is there any reason not to go rouge and play the f ing god? ( we have tech complex enough to act as miracles and some classes can work as local god of magic if they want) so is there any thing stopping us from going rouge and ruling our own empire until another starfinder team comes

small question about primal worlds( worlds that not hit sufficient development threshold) since we gonna eventually discover one of them is there any reason not to go rouge and play the f ing god? ( we have tech complex enough to act as miracles and some classes can work as local god of magic if they want) so is there any thing stopping us from going rouge and ruling our own empire until another starfinder team comes

The GM.

I want some more flip mats with the interior layout for space ships that you can live and adventure in!

(And have weird battles with invading monsters and such.)

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
GM Hmm wrote:

I want some more flip mats with the interior layout for space ships that you can live and adventure in!

(And have weird battles with invading monsters and such.)

So, we will need some shipboard maps because i dont see how they could avoid derelict ships or hostile boardings being a thing. But those maps also need to be at least a little modular, you dont want a Mass Effect 1 vibe where in all of the huge, massive galaxy, there are only like 5 ship hulls out there. The ships need to feel cool and unique. Think of any space port or bar scene in Sci-Fi, everything has to have a feel and differentness to it, ships included.

There are already ship-maps published for Traveller and other games. I have "Ashanti High Lightning" in an attic somewhere, which has deck plans (and pawns) for a massive battlecruiser.

Fardragon wrote:
There are already ship-maps published for Traveller and other games. I have "Ashanti High Lightning" in an attic somewhere, which has deck plans (and pawns) for a massive battlecruiser.

Interesting that you mention this.

I created these maps:
Sol Subsector to Subsector k Unknown

The first one is a subsector taken out of the Solomani Rim, I added my own feature, which is a wormhole leading to another subsector in an unknown region of space, it could be a region in the Starfinder galaxy for instance. There is a set of rules for Traveller, which I believe would be the most compatible with Starfinder, those are the T20 Traveller ruleset. T20 Traveller rulebook cover which is available here.

So what happens if there is a wormhole as depicted in my maps, some Solomani rebels discover them and use them as hideouts to make hit and run attacks on Imperial shipping. The Third Imperium Navy pursues and chases the rebels through the wormhole into the Starfinder Galaxy, conducting a planet to planet search for them?

Part of the outcome depends of the availability of Magic. What happens when a Third Imperium starship activates their Jump Drive, do they go to the Drift? It would be an amusing crossover I think.

You might also check out Maps of Mastery from Christopher West. There are a lot of sf maps available on his site, featuring poster maps, terrain cards, and pdf's. Includes ships, alien terrain, starbases, ...

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small question about primal worlds( worlds that not hit sufficient development threshold) since we gonna eventually discover one of them is there any reason not to go rouge and play the f ing god? ( we have tech complex enough to act as miracles and some classes can work as local god of magic if they want) so is there any thing stopping us from going rouge and ruling our own empire until another starfinder team comes

Only and exactly the same thing that prevents you from finding a tiny island with just enough water and food to sustain your life, and with nothing on it that can pose a threat to you, and playing god over the local flora and fauna until other sailors arrive.

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Part of the outcome depends of the availability of Magic. What happens when a Third Imperium starship activates their Jump Drive, do they go to the Drift? It would be an amusing crossover I think.

Yes, I think it might be amusing.

If you're still answering questions, could you tell us if goblins in Starfinder read, or if they are still very superstitious about it?

Also, if their racial bonus to Ride switched to Pilot (if that's a Skill) I'll probably play a goblin Operative for my first character.

It would be interesting if goblins actually hated illiterate people, and literacy among them was pretty much 100%. It would be a very specific pathological hatred, and goblins can't quite explain where it came from, but if you can't read, your soul basically doesn't exist.

Keeping in mind that literacy doesn't necessarily mean someone's intelligent or more wise, so crazy goblin shenanigans can still happen. It's just now, trying to force a goblin to read won't really torture it.

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CKent83 wrote:

If you're still answering questions, could you tell us if goblins in Starfinder read, or if they are still very superstitious about it?

Also, if their racial bonus to Ride switched to Pilot (if that's a Skill) I'll probably play a goblin Operative for my first character.

They don't need to be able to read, since they would have the equivalent of YouTube videos to show them how to build and fly thier ships.

Fardragon wrote:
CKent83 wrote:

If you're still answering questions, could you tell us if goblins in Starfinder read, or if they are still very superstitious about it?

Also, if their racial bonus to Ride switched to Pilot (if that's a Skill) I'll probably play a goblin Operative for my first character.

They don't need to be able to read, since they would have the equivalent of YouTube videos to show them how to build and fly thier ships.

That's quite an assumption, even if YouTube instruction videos were worth squat for simple things, let alone complex piloting and engineering questions.

On the one hand, literacy gives you a competitive advantage over those who can't or refuse to learn. You can teach yourself anything you have the aptitude and time for, and you can learn the symbols of weal or woe that are posted in urban areas where a certain place might be interesting enough to want to break in and steal. If you can read the sign "beware of velociraptor" you can be sure you'll have a bad time if you try to burgle that place!

On the other hand, Goblin tradition says reading and writing will steal words from your brain (and is also a tool for controlling the weak-minded) And if there is anything goblins fear as much as magic it's their war chiefs and tribal priests, who will tend toward conservative values and who are motivated to maintain their personal power through those teachings.

On the third hand, civilization has progressed enough that any goblins who haven't spent their entire lives living under a rock can see that none of the other races have suffered harm by schooling, and in fact can talk even smarter and figure out stuff faster because of this strange ritual called 'Googoling'.

Finally there will be goblins who have accidentally did learn how to read and write, but now they are ostracized by their illiterate cousins for 'acting like a pinkskin'.

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

So I have a slightly different question. What is the starting year for the game? In Pathfinder we are in the AR era some 4700 years. Is Starfinder going to be AG (after gap) or something else, I can't imagine they are going to continue AR given it seems a slight secret how long things have been missing.

Voss wrote:
Fardragon wrote:
CKent83 wrote:

If you're still answering questions, could you tell us if goblins in Starfinder read, or if they are still very superstitious about it?

Also, if their racial bonus to Ride switched to Pilot (if that's a Skill) I'll probably play a goblin Operative for my first character.

They don't need to be able to read, since they would have the equivalent of YouTube videos to show them how to build and fly thier ships.
That's quite an assumption, even if YouTube instruction videos were worth squat for simple things, let alone complex piloting and engineering questions.

1) my wife has aquired several handicraft skills from watching YouTube, and as a teacher, I have sometimes used YouTube in the classroom as an educational tool. So yes, you can learn stuff from YouTube. The large quantity of dross makes the useful stuff hard to find, but it doesn't nullify it.

2) it's quite an assumption to assume that piloting a Starship in the Starfinder universe is "complex".

3) you are taking this far to seriously. Learn to spot social satire, and remember that Starfinder is just meant to be fun.

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I know you guys said we'd be able to use the Bestiaries in Starfinder, but will we also be able to use the race builder from the Advanced Race Guide?

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As a rule, when Pathfinder monsters are referred to in APs, will they be re-statted like variant monsters and monsters with non-prd templates and such are, or will we just be trusted to do the conversion?

Just how easy is the conversion? Is it as simple as applying the advanced template or do we have to make decisions?

 Senior Developer, Starfinder Team

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Kiln Norn wrote:
So I have a slightly different question. What is the starting year for the game? In Pathfinder we are in the AR era some 4700 years. Is Starfinder going to be AG (after gap) or something else, I can't imagine they are going to continue AR given it seems a slight secret how long things have been missing.

Starfinder has its own calendar, which uses AG for "After Gap." We very specifically have not said how AG relates to AR, because no one knows as a result of the Gap.

 Senior Developer, Starfinder Team

CKent83 wrote:
I know you guys said we'd be able to use the Bestiaries in Starfinder, but will we also be able to use the race builder from the Advanced Race Guide?

You could certainly use/convert some elements from the Advanced Race Guide in Starfinder, but it won't port over 100%. For one thing, the race points used in the Advanced Race Guide don't have a Starfinder equivalent.

 Senior Developer, Starfinder Team

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ThePuppyTurtle wrote:

As a rule, when Pathfinder monsters are referred to in APs, will they be re-statted like variant monsters and monsters with non-prd templates and such are, or will we just be trusted to do the conversion?

Just how easy is the conversion? Is it as simple as applying the advanced template or do we have to make decisions?

If we refer to a Pathfinder monster in a Starfinder AP, we will present it with Starfinder stats. There's no way we can assume that everyone playing Starfinder also plays Pathfinder.

For converting Pathfinder monsters to Starfinder on your own, it will of course depend on the specific monster. It is a relatively straightforward process, but it will require making some decisions.

Is it possible to teleport inside the Drift? How about for very long distances? (Interplanetary Teleport)? Does being in the Drift impede your ability to scan for threats or detect rogue comets or planets floating deep space?

How does the Dark Tapestry feel about having an entire other plane basically "paved over" their exclusive domain? Can the natives of the Dark Tapestry interact with things in the Drift or attempt to impede their travel in any way?

How many akata minis should I try to pick up for the first Adventure Path? I know this isn't an ideal question, but I'm trying to get ready to run the AP the week I get back from GenCon.

Also, will we be getting deck plans for the ships like there were in the Star Wars and Serenity RPG's?

Edit: Thanks to Rob McCreary for answering my question about the Race Builder.

I do have a question that seems to be coming up in indirect ways:

What is the Starfinder equivalent of the Internet, or Global (Interplanetary?) Information Grid? "Holonet?" (Maybe that one's copyrighted)

Does each planet have their own, due to distance and the fledgling state of FTL?

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
ENHenry wrote:

I do have a question that seems to be coming up in indirect ways:

What is the Starfinder equivalent of the Internet, or Global (Interplanetary?) Information Grid? "Holonet?" (Maybe that one's copyrighted)

Does each planet have their own, due to distance and the fledgling state of FTL?

I have already seen this come up in multiple places and heard it directly from James Sutter during one of the panels at PaizoCon. The planetary internets, called infospheres, update the computers on the characters' ship when it enters range of a new planet.

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

It's kind of related to the internet question, so I thought I'd mention that the 'premier' game on Twitch included a mention that sending messages long distance required a drift capable message pod sort of thing. Good info, sort of Traveler-esque.

Besides that there was an Info sphere - basically a planet based internet but with vastly different ammounts of information and content based on what planet you are

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How large and powerful is the Pact Worlds alliance? Are there other drift beacons as powerful as the starstone in the galaxy?

In my head I can't see the Pact Worlds being without a disproportionately large and powerful navy. The money they make from taxing commerce and trade services because everyone that uses drift tech can get there in 1d6 days from anywhere makes it one of the most economically and strategically important spots in the galaxy. That means everyone that isn't in the Pact Worlds alliance is going to covet it.

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So I'm seeing a lot of concern that the monsters from First Contact (which I have not seen, so I may be totally off base) are just made using (a variant of) the monster creation rules from Unchained. If that is the case, please tell us the final game will at least have an option to make monsters in a way so that their HP, Skills etc are actually tied to the relevant ability scores?

For me personally, while the convenience of a simple monster creation system is nice, the idea of so thoroughly cutting corners that the monsters are nothing but utterly fabricated collections of independent numbers determined by their CR is much worse than doing the calculations. The idea that every monster of a given CR has one of three hit point values, one of three save bonuses, and one of three everything else is terrible and eliminates all variety. You may as well only have three monsters of each CR!

I understand that hit dice don't exist anymore, but is there at least a long-form way of making monsters where they get N+Int skill ranks and N+Con per "Discrete Power Unit," where their bonus to hit is determined by a base attack bonus and an ability score, where their saves are determined by a base save and an ability score, and where their damage is determined by what kind of weapon they are using, whether they have specialization, and an ability score, and where these things are modified by feats taken from a list similar to those available to players?

I'm really concerned. If all there is PFU's system and no other way to make monsters... I don't want to be melodramatic but... it might be a deal breaker.

Speaking as a 1st edition vet, we don't need no steenkin monster creation rules.

And I will ignore them anyway.

Fardragon wrote:

Speaking as a 1st edition vet, we don't need no steenkin monster creation rules.

And I will ignore them anyway.

But will it be mechanically possible to ignore them? That's what I'm concerned about.

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Fardragon wrote:

Speaking as a 1st edition vet, we don't need no steenkin monster creation rules.

And I will ignore them anyway.

That doesn't really change the other issues, like samey stats (all of the CR 4 creatures in First Contact have exactly 52 HP, 16 EAC, and 18 KAC. The two that are melee focused have the same attack bonus and static damage, one just has a slightly smaller die but inflicts a disease) and arbitrary, disconnected derived values.

If that's just how monsters work now, and they don't follow the same rules that PCs do, that's a huge downside for me.

Aratrok wrote:
Fardragon wrote:

Speaking as a 1st edition vet, we don't need no steenkin monster creation rules.

And I will ignore them anyway.

That doesn't really change the other issues, like samey stats (all of the CR 4 creatures in First Contact have exactly 52 HP, 16 EAC, and 18 KAC. The two that are melee focused have the same attack bonus and static damage, one just has a slightly smaller die but inflicts a disease) and arbitrary, disconnected derived values.

If that's just how monsters work now, and they don't follow the same rules that PCs do, that's a huge downside for me.

Jimminy Christmas, the two ACs! Surely having different ratios between them ought to be a major part of what makes different kinds of monsters different!

I'm rethinking whether I am going to play this game.

If EAC is almost always just 2 pips less than KAC, why not just have one AC and give energy weapons +2 to hit?

The problem with all this balancing that goes on "under the hood" is the GM at least should understand it so they can exercise thier creativity without breaking the game.

I've been ignoring the 5th edition monster rules though, and so far I have gotten away with it without my players noticing anything amiss.

ThePuppyTurtle wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Fardragon wrote:

Speaking as a 1st edition vet, we don't need no steenkin monster creation rules.

And I will ignore them anyway.

That doesn't really change the other issues, like samey stats (all of the CR 4 creatures in First Contact have exactly 52 HP, 16 EAC, and 18 KAC. The two that are melee focused have the same attack bonus and static damage, one just has a slightly smaller die but inflicts a disease) and arbitrary, disconnected derived values.

If that's just how monsters work now, and they don't follow the same rules that PCs do, that's a huge downside for me.

Jimminy Christmas, the two ACs! Surely having different ratios between them ought to be a major part of what makes different kinds of monsters different!

I'm rethinking whether I am going to play this game.

To be totally fair, there are creatures with different relative ACs. The Necrovite has an EAC of 26 and a KAC of 27, and the Contemplative has an EAC of 13 and a KAC of 12. They just seem very similar within the same class of monster, and they don't seem to vary nearly enough to be called a strength or weakness.

I do think the monsters in First Contact were made with a previous iteration of the rules. Hopefully they will get a good sanding to smooth out the rough edges.

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