The Toxicant, an Alchemist / Ranger hybrid (Heavy on the alchemist, Twitch inspired)

[Naoki00]

A while ago a good friend of mine wanted to play a poison based ratfolk with a crossbow after his favorite character in League of Legends, Twitch. We went about making different ideas for builds, but one never really clicked with it so I decided to see if I could just make a kind of archetype for the alchemist that would work kinda how this originally pretty narrow concept was desired. a couple days later I came up with the Toxicant, and while it is a bit narrow in some ways I feel like it has good enough flavor and differences to be worth the time put into it.

Of course if that was it I wouldn't be here, so I wanted to hear what you forum goer's thought. If it needs improvement, toned down, or in general maybe back to the drawing board. Hopefully it goes over well!

The Toxicant

[N. Jolly]

I'm super tired right now, so I'm just dotting this to remember to check it out later, but the name probably isn't great, since it's already an alchemist archetype name. Aside from that, I'll talk more later when I get the chance.

[Naoki00]

N. Jolly wrote:

I'm super tired right now, so I'm just dotting this to remember to check it out later, but the name probably isn't great, since it's already an alchemist archetype name. Aside from that, I'll talk more later when I get the chance.

It is? Darn I really liked that name

[N. Jolly]

Actually looking through it, it looks a lot like the toxicant. I'd suggest checking that out, since it's a bit hard to make suggestions on this due to their similarities.

[Xaimum Mafire]

Toxicant (Dirty Tactics Toolbox)/Vivisectionist (Advanced Player's Guide) Alchemist. No Ranger levels needed.

[Naoki00]

N. Jolly wrote:

Actually looking through it, it looks a lot like the toxicant. I'd suggest checking that out, since it's a bit hard to make suggestions on this due to their similarities.

After looking at it I will certainly agree that they are the same thing thematically. If nothing else I think I've at least expanding some of the options well enough to be different in scope, so I'll ask then if you feel it needs to have the crossbow specific stuff changed to them and bows, and if the things like Shadeform and Truedark concoctions have anything going for them or are too strong, and the if you think the injection method is an improvement on the Skin excretion method. I'd love to make this class more distinct if possible.

[Zwordsman]

Seems pretty fun. Would be amusing to play. Its alot like a lot of my characters I make, except not as feat heavy due to the combination.

rambling so edited in a spoiler for space sake:

i'm rather fond of poison craft.

I didn't see a listing for spells. but going with the assumption it just uses alchemist's spell list? (well extracts in both cases but its eaiser to refer as a spell list )

standard actoin... with no one else being able to use it.. is rather painful. because its specific text, the later abilities for poisoning quicker don't apply, strictly speaking. If you meant for it to apply then consider inserting a line about it on the poison speed abilities but really I would consider making it quicker. At least after a while, like move at 4 o 5 and quick at 7 or 9.
Though the extracts seem a bit disjointed in this.

I would almost say.. Make this an archetype of Alchemist. and have them give up extracts for the poison crafting thing. That way they still have bombs, or sneak attack, discoveries as normal-which prevents you from having to add more discoveries to that list as time goes on. But on those levels they get both discovery and toxic craft. Extracts are spells so generally inherently more useful but if your going poison~ go full tilt I say (I love poison character have a few)

quick poisoning would then be built in due to alchemist (along wit ha ton of poison specific extremely useful ones). Honestly level 11 for swift action poison application is a tad slow I think

Induce weakness is something I'd still give them, maybe exchanging for persistant mutagen or something and keeping it level 11 or 12

As for the crossbow bits. You could consider trading out: Brew Potion mutagen persistant mutagen, in exchange for it. Counting in losing the spells and gaining the Toxic craft.. I think it more or less equals out. or at least enough to me.

not that i'm great at building things mind you. I built a weird alchemical item based class/prestige classs..
So take what I say with a grain of salt.

THough I absolutely adore poison users so i'm pretty into this.

If you haven't looked, look at toxicant alchemist, Eldritch poisoner alchemst (though IMO not that good at all), Daggermark Poisoner prestige if you haven't looked at these.

Though personally I'd not have it an archetype, make it new but modeled more closely from the above I mentioned. With regards to adding more in and changing some smaller details.

edit: could consider changing the infusion list and picking up some spells. and adding in the ability to use the poition like items via throwing as a splash weapon with no splash.
Then add in some attack spells that fit with the theme. Or even make an option about throwing this class' poison via splash effects (otherwise I"m not sure why this class has throw anything right now).

Twitch was my favorite LOL character, so I'll think of more on that branch of things rather than just quick observations. I mostly looked at it via the poison standpoint and less hte twitch standpoint. There should be some great abilities to follow his move set

[Naoki00]

Zwordsman wrote:

Seems pretty fun. Would be amusing to play. Its alot like a lot of my characters I make, except not as feat heavy due to the combination.

** spoiler omitted **...

SO you know it uses the Alchemist's extracts and all that, I could probably copy the Alchemist's actual wording on Alchemy, but I was lazy (bad I know) and had just put that it is as theirs.

For the speed of applying the poison I did originally have it as a standard to draw, coat, and shoot the arrow. I honestly don't remember why I nerfed it, but I think it had something to do with testing and it's damage values, I'd be fine with reverting it or making it a move action. This is not exactly poison as usual though so quick poisoning wouldn't apply, it's "Toxin" (same difference I know) and is meant to be like the Bomb, and the toxin completely replaces bombs due to this. The poison crafts replace discoveries similarly (though many are just different named versions to work with the Toxin instead of bombs and some are new)

In the end it's kind of like an archetype and kind of like a hybrid, but I felt the hybrid class was a bit more accurate of a description, but I could be wrong there.

On your edit, I wouldn't mind changing infusions around, just a bit of time is all it would be. For spells, do you mean having spells as well as extracts? I'd kept in throw anything for the whole purpose of tossing bottles of contact poison on people, though taking it away and making it a Poison Craft with a bonus or two would work.