What you hope won't be in there.


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I would definitely like to see a reduction of the role magic has in the game. If its going to be sci-fi, I would like magic to take a back seat to that element when it comes to design.

I guess im basically wanting "magic" to be limited to 6th level casters and the higher level "spells" are done through tech.

But I honestly doubt that will be the case.


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By definition, guns and technology give non-casters access to things that they wouldn't have without it. Let that take care of the caster balance. I would like to see new classes that don't have spell progression though.

As for the 40k hate, I don't need Paizo to attempt to recreate grim dark, I can do that myself. I just need good rules for futuristic guns and modern classes please. I am already looking forward to doing Haarlocks legacy series with Starfinder rules.

Liberty's Edge

I don't want to see alignment as a thing here. I'd rather have an expansion on things like the patriotic weapons and the Unchained bits about things like radiant damage.

Have allegiances and oppositions, not alignment.


Rhedyn wrote:

I hope that it is in no way made to balance with Pathfinder. Letting things mechanically interact is one thing, but having CRB balance standards would infuriate me.

Agreed. If a 1st-level Starfinder character is balanced with a 1st-level Pathfinder character (including gear-wise), we'll have the issue that a medieval bow does the same damage than a futuristic lasergun.

I'm okay with SF being compatible with old monster stat blocks, but that should also means that a SF group is at least a few CR above an equivalent PF group.

Lord Mhoram wrote:
Personally I don't want to see to much transhumanism in it.

I'm actually half/half on that. I'd like to have Cybertech (which precludes transhumanism), but the shadowun-style way to do would be too complex for what I'd like to see in SF.

Still, nothing beat the old space pirate with a chromed cyberarm.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

While I wouldn't mind seeing Gygaxian magic get jettisoned, I hope we don't see psionics replace it, or at least not as the only kind of magic.

Those who are fans can doubtlessly import it from Dreamscarred Press, and if it requires conversion, I'd be surprised if they didn't offer at least a conversion book, if not a new line of products.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Deadkitten wrote:

I would definitely like to see a reduction of the role magic has in the game. If its going to be sci-fi, I would like magic to take a back seat to that element when it comes to design.

I guess im basically wanting "magic" to be limited to 6th level casters and the higher level "spells" are done through tech.

But I honestly doubt that will be the case.

Apparently they did say that magic will be lesser due to technology, but not gone, simply because technology makes some things easier...why dedicate yourself to learning fireball when you can just pull out a plasma gun that can produce a similar effect without dedicating five to six class levels to being able to do it, amongst other things.


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Even in star wars, the force is not just better than technology.

The greatest Kotor Sixth Lords were meek next to the might of a fully operational death star.

Jedi were powerful, but a thermal detonator kills them.

Starkiller was mighty but a few lucky blaster shots would kill him and he could rip star destroyers from orbit.

Warhammer 40k psychers do not trump everything non psycher. The God Emporer himself was a master psycher, engineer, politician, and tactician. His life lingers primarily from the golden throne. The offering of psycher lives just helps him hold the demons at bay.

Mass effect biotecs are not just better than everyone else. The reapers and geth went without for the most part.

Sci-fi unlike fantasy, has little precedent for magic trumping tech completely.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, by now Paizo has plenty of experience with different point based systems which can produce effects of varying power and some even have reclaim mechanis.

While the talk of vancian magic being replaced by "true psionics" doesn´t mean magics have to go, there could and should be different kinds of magics and instead of a vancian system a system powered by points is definately worth looking at.
It might reflect how magic and other stuff developed over the ages and a different level of mastery people got.
It would probably help alleviate some problems the game has now and there are enough ways to prevent nova effects and hold that in line.

The only thing i would ask for there is that everything stays streamlined and there aren´t 100 nearly identical system with little differences mattering enough that too many people get confused.
Deploy one mechanic, rename it as often as you want, but keep the core mechanic through the game. Perhaps add different effects for different users, but keep it simpler so that the system mastery effect and the rules lawyer degree effect are alleviated too.
1 of 3 people i introduce to the game don´t continue because of that at the moment.


People keep saying Sci-fi. It's not. It's more Sci-fa (Science fantasy, not science fiction).


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Rather than so-called psionics, if we had to go to a point-based system, I would rather have one like Akashic Mysteries/Incarnum (small pool of points that can be reallocated between non-instantaneous magical effects without spending them), Ethermagic (small pool of points that are spent but regenerates on a round-by-round basis), or Spheres of Power (can perform some effects without spending points at-will, though often requiring concentration for on-going abilities, and spend points to perform more powerful effects).

Edit: But yeah, I agree, this is science fantasy, not science fiction. Though science fiction itself is quite expansive.


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Epic Meepo wrote:
There is absolutely no excuse for Starfinder to use anything other than psionics as its default magic system.

Eons of experience with another existing magic system that demonstrably works, is powerful, and is in widespread use throughout all of the outer planes and the solar system as it currently exists? You need to make a case for why the disappearance of Golarion or the development of technology would make existing magic not work or you'd have to make a reason for psionics to suddenly develop and make it more powerful than the existing options so people would have a reason to switch.

Psychic will get more love because that's the dominant Lashunta paradigm, but spell slots are here to stay.


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What I don't want to see is a gutting of anything deemed a sacred cow or D&D-ism just because of presence. I get that it's a new ruleset and a good opportunity to try new things, but at the same time, there is a lot of this I'd like to use in my basic Pathfinder game. And I'd personally prefer some aspects like Vancian magic to other systems. While I don't want Starfinder to just be copy paste Pathfinder, I still want some of the more iconic d&d isms to remain in.

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I too hope Wealth by Level goes to the wayside - never liked "required" amounts of gear, whether it be magic or technological. Not sure the Pathfinder WBL system would even work well in a futuristic setting - it makes a little bit of sense that in a fantasy world, a magic weapon would be so much more expensive than an "off the rack" weapon, but technologically? I can't see a laser pistol, costing say 20 "credits" or whatever is affordable to a newbie with starting money, needing to go to something like 2300 credits just to get a +1 to hit and damage.

Actually I could be onboard with eliminating tracking money at all, and just going with a "credit rating" or "wealth" system that abstracts all that, perhaps something like d20 Modern's system. But definitely not a fan of magic item Xmas tree effect.

I hope they don't go with the Shadowrun "cyberware makes you worse at magic" concept. Whenever I play those sorts of settings I always feel like I can only access half the game.


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Would be interesting for them to delve into reputation (rep) as a form of currency, like in Eclipse Phase and Nova Praxis.

Liberty's Edge

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Given that 'common' magic would logically be vastly different in a high tech culture, it seems likely that many Pathfinder spells would be obsolete or extremely rare... to the point that an entirely different (i.e. non Vancian) magical system could have become the norm. Alternatively, Paizo could stick with Vancian because it is familiar and has a long history. Either is fine with me.

However, backwards compatibility will almost certainly require that Vancian magic still exist (e.g. for all the monsters that have spells and/or SLA)... it might just be a rare / optional system.


my sense is that the development team went with occult versus psionics more for not liking spell point systems and and because they felt vancian was more familiar.

I absolutely want to see Dreamscarred do a supplement combining their existing psionic work with Starfinder, but don't really want to see Starfinder adapt psionics itself.


MMCJawa wrote:

my sense is that the development team went with occult versus psionics more for not liking spell point systems and and because they felt vancian was more familiar.

I absolutely want to see Dreamscarred do a supplement combining their existing psionic work with Starfinder, but don't really want to see Starfinder adapt psionics itself.

Their problem with Spell/Magic Points is how to prevent a caster from getting something at earlier levels... apparently using gazillions of Feats and other class features as a guide never come to mind, you know, the "you must be this tall to reach", aka Class Levels.


A change to AC, HD, BA, saves, and skill systems.


I know it's a bit of a tough one and I could let it slide with some things, but I hope they steer away from planetary monocultures. I know it's easier adventure design, but I'd like different cultures of a race of a planet, just like Golarion has different human cultures.


Odraude wrote:
I know it's a bit of a tough one and I could let it slide with some things, but I hope they steer away from planetary monocultures. I know it's easier adventure design, but I'd like different cultures of a race of a planet, just like Golarion has different human cultures.

Golarion, Earth, ...

^ and to add to that, if a planet is multicultural, avoiding focussing on only one culture.


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I mean, it's a bit hard to do that because the players will generally be visiting one singular area per planet if they are doing a starfaring, journey of exploration to different planets. I get that. But if the adventure is all on one planet, then yeah, I'd hope to see them get into a little more detail with the cultures.


Odraude wrote:
I mean, it's a bit hard to do that because the players will generally be visiting one singular area per planet if they are doing a starfaring, journey of exploration to different planets. I get that. But if the adventure is all on one planet, then yeah, I'd hope to see them get into a little more detail with the cultures.

I kinda meant in the: you visit the planet in 3 different AP, but each time you interact with the same culture.

Shadow Lodge

Sissyl wrote:
Voss wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
WombattheDaniel wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
No, I don't like WH40K's setting, why do you ask?
This is one of the saddest sentences I've ever read.
I disagree. Warhammer 40k is entirely too "grimdark" for me.

You're reading it wrong (much like the current design team). It is entirely a farcical parody.

Which, to be fair, there is plenty of reason not to love. But taking the grimderp seriously is a bad plan.

Parody, sure. But with half a million books out, and the only two elements of humour in it being Ciaphas Cain and the cockney orks, someone missed something vital. As you say, the current design team does it, so why treat it as a parody?

It definitely has traces of parody still left, but with Games Workshop being what it is, those are pretty few and far between. My three biggest problem with WH40k are that (1) it's so very ubiquitous, particularily amongst net cretins, (2) it's had too many writers during its lifespan (3) it barely works as a setting outside the hobby.

edit 1:
Make no mistake, I adore stuff like Dark Crusade, Deff Skwadron and Eisenhorn, but those are all adaptations which wouldn't exist without leaving most of the universe behind. They take the things they need and omit the ones they don't. I think Eisenhorn and Abnett's novel stuff in general wouldn't work so well if the writer didn't approach universe as a source of inspiration instead of canon.

edit 2:
What I don't want to see but propably will:

* Galactic government of any sort. I want a universe in flux just like Golarion. I want adventuring to have a reason beyond thrillseeking. Everything's going bonkers in Golarion and every setting tidbit is an adventure seed. The more stable a universe the further we need to travel for excitement.
* Hell. I'm pretty fed up with Hell. Escathology in general is a sore point for me since it adds some very severe gravitas to every setting where we encounter it. Make us go insane, accept alien parasites and bio-modify ourselves into diamond dogs, but don't force us to think about sin.
* Progenitor robot reapers of any kind. It's been done so many times. It's passe and a bit bland and personally I've found the prophecylessness of Golarion pretty...fresh. It feels like you got all the time in the world to adventure when there's no giant countdown clocks of mortal peril in the horizon.
* Space Jews(sorry!)/The Trade Race. I don't know what's peoples fascination with galactic skinflints(Ferengi, Neimodians, etc) but I kinda don't want them here. There's always one in every setting with lots of races, but meh.
* A planet for every classic writer. You know what I mean, the Le Guin planet of gender politics, the Asimov planet of identity politics, etc.


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Muser wrote:

edit 2:

What I don't want to see but propably will:

* Galactic government of any sort. I want a universe in flux just like Golarion. I want adventuring to have a reason beyond thrillseeking. Everything's going bonkers in Golarion and every setting tidbit is an adventure seed. The more stable a universe the further we need to travel for excitement.
* Hell. I'm pretty fed up with Hell. Escathology in general is a sore point for me since it adds some very severe gravitas to every setting where we encounter it. Make us go insane, accept alien parasites and bio-modify ourselves into diamond dogs, but don't force us to think about sin.
* Progenitor robot reapers of any kind. It's been done so many times. It's passe and a bit bland and personally I've found the prophecylessness of Golarion pretty...fresh. It feels like you got all the time in the world to adventure when there's no giant countdown clocks of mortal peril in the horizon.
* Space Jews(sorry!)/The Trade Race. I don't know what's peoples fascination with galactic skinflints(Ferengi, Neimodians, etc) but I kinda don't want them here. There's always one in every setting with lots of races, but meh.
* A planet for every classic writer. You know what I mean, the Le Guin planet of gender politics, the Asimov planet of identity politics, etc.

Now I really can't help but thinking "Tripping the Rift".

- - - - -

Don't want to see: only NPCs get to have/use the cool/useful/fun stuff.


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I have one small strange thing I don't want included: shared languages. Races who've evolved differently on different planets shouldn't necessarily be able to speak each others languages easily. I would much rather we get an understanding that every species speaks its own language, and there are universal translator systems in the vein of Farscape and Mass Effect. A bit of realism, you can keep translation issues dealing with planets and species that don't have access to translators, and most importantly, I can create an alien scientist character who learned Taldane in order to guarantee efficient conveying of ideas to his shipmates, thus giving me Mordin.


A space port/station orbiting every planet.

Orcs, goblins, gnolls, drow, hobgoblins, bugbears, duergar, aboleth, etc. inhabiting planets they original weren't on before the disappearance of Golarion. Or at least not on Castrovel or Akiton.

The change/loss of the sexy pulpy goodness.


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You is saying goblins not able colonize...?

Find your planet first now, yes... Gip, Mighteist Space Pirate, will colonize soon....


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Magic trumping every mundane method of solving problems.

Touch AC

Classes with 2 + Int skill points or less

Annoyingly long feat chains and feat taxes

Psionics. I would prefer it if they left it to Dreamscarred Press to be honest.

Wealth by Level Guidelines ever. No, not even then!

Loss of character functionality without gear.

Humans being the dominant race. Seeing humans as the newcomers would be nice.

Vancian Magic although I know it will be there.


Pail won't do Psionics again. They already implemented it(poorly) by making a lot of Psychic spells copy/pasted Psionic Powers. :(

The Exchange

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Luthorne wrote:
I hope guns and similar ranged weaponry won't completely replace melee fighting.

Actually, I kinda do.

Scarab Sages

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i'd like to see two major things:
Mech combat and eldritch horror meshed with sci fi
(not together mind you, just as options)


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I would hope DSP needs to write new books for the system.

Silver Crusade

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Hayato Ken wrote:
The concerns about overspecialized party roles aka pilot, hacker, etc where the rest of the party can´t do anything are real concerns and a very serious thing to adress.

Trying not to be too spoilerish but volume 6 of Iron gods puts players inside a computer - which is what netrunning is. I can foresee netrunning being an ability of a magic type class which allows all players to jack in, or it could be reduced to a rogue-like ability as simple as a disable device roll.

Aside from various fictions, there is no reason to have protracted netrunning experiences. We don't have prolonged lock picking after all.

As far as piloting, we already have rules for naval combats i.e. skull and shackles that can be modified. We may see Weapon Proficiency Turbo Laser that may be a martial weapon proficiency.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I truly wish that there's not an almost banal obsession with consumable resources (ie, ammunition/charges).

ie, A lot of the stuff from the current Pathfinder Technology Guide looks really NEAT...

And then you see that it burns ten charges a second or something crazy like that, when the power supply is... not nearly enough.

Instead perhaps have a given device go into 'recharge' if a character rolls a 'nat 1'?


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Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

The approach taken in that adventure path is fine -- since today most of us can use a computer to look up something on the Internet, why not make jacking into a computer network and doing things there something that everybody can do?

Those with special hacking skills would be able to do more with the environment than those lacking such skills, but is that any different from the standard scenario where the fighters are beating up the monsters while the wizard rearranges the battlefield to tip the balance in favor of his allies?


Gorbacz wrote:
Here's a big "I don't wanna" - I don't want for existence of Starfinder to result in sci-fantasy elements getting removed from vanilla Pathfinder. On some level, this is an opportunity for Paizo to have the cake and eat the cake, with Pathfinder being more "traditionalist fantasy" and Starfinder covering the weird stuff. While I'm very happy that I am getting a full-blown sci-fantasy RPG, I'd love for robotz with lazors to creep into baseline Pathfinder books every now and then.

Yeah, the same way there will be fantasy elements in Starfinder. I agree with you.


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Malwing wrote:
Also I disagree with the 'no net'. currently playing a setting with Hypercorps 2099's Hypernet and the players are having all kinds of fun with it and they haven't even decided to go there yet.

The Hypernet is totally awesome. :D

We expanded on it and fixed it up in the main book for Hypercorps 2099 but I encourage yins to get the watered down free version here (and you know, if you like it, there is a great book with lots of other awesome in it -- including mechwarriors -- available as well).

Odraude wrote:
Would be interesting for them to delve into reputation (rep) as a form of currency, like in Eclipse Phase and Nova Praxis.

I agree. Hypercorps 2099 has a Reputation attribute and it has been wonderful in play. :D


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With Hypercorp 2099 in mind as well as a few other third party things There's actually quite a bit I don't want to see in Starfinder because they are complicated things that would kill page count but won't fit into many games so would be better as 3pp design space. The VR and decking is one of them, that is already handled in Hypercorp 2099.

Vehicle and space battle rules are fine but I think Mecha, particularly the construction and customization of them is probably a complex beast that really needs a book to itself to let the rest of the system breathe.

Alternate rules for monetary transactions is probably best as some kind of third party subsystem than one for the core rulebook.

Plant, animal, wooden, and psionic ships are probably better for a third party ship customization book.

I don't want there to be too many aliens because I Star Wars amounts of different aliens to be an option not a rule so I'd rather have some kind of Race Compendium handle that. Even better if Starfinder's fluff sticks to it's own and nearby Solar System so 3pp can fill out the rest of the galaxy. By the Way I'd love a fat book of hat planets; a large book spending two pages per race to detail the race rules and home world. just so that I have a high density of aliens for a campaign.


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Malwing wrote:
I think Mecha, particularly the construction and customization of them is probably a complex beast that really needs a book to itself to let the rest of the system breathe.

I'd use the rules for Eidolon and change them to constructs, then apply the rules for Construct Armor. Simple enough, and allows for customization.


Azten wrote:
Malwing wrote:
I think Mecha, particularly the construction and customization of them is probably a complex beast that really needs a book to itself to let the rest of the system breathe.
I'd use the rules for Eidolon and change them to constructs, then apply the rules for Construct Armor. Simple enough, and allows for customization.

That works out for class features that don't go past large size mecha often but I think once giant robots get involved, especially if independent of levels (Something I'd rather see happen because unless they are powered by magic or psionics or some other kind of personal power or expertise then it just looks weird to have constructed items be class features) then a mecha game would be like a Mythic game of Pathfinder, where the damage, stakes and scope is way higher than normal because your weapons are bigger, heavier and a hundred times more destructive.


Malwing wrote:

With Hypercorp 2099 in mind as well as a few other third party things There's actually quite a bit I don't want to see in Starfinder because they are complicated things that would kill page count but won't fit into many games so would be better as 3pp design space. The VR and decking is one of them, that is already handled in Hypercorp 2099.

Vehicle and space battle rules are fine but I think Mecha, particularly the construction and customization of them is probably a complex beast that really needs a book to itself to let the rest of the system breathe.

Alternate rules for monetary transactions is probably best as some kind of third party subsystem than one for the core rulebook.

Plant, animal, wooden, and psionic ships are probably better for a third party ship customization book.

I don't want there to be too many aliens because I Star Wars amounts of different aliens to be an option not a rule so I'd rather have some kind of Race Compendium handle that. Even better if Starfinder's fluff sticks to it's own and nearby Solar System so 3pp can fill out the rest of the galaxy. By the Way I'd love a fat book of hat planets; a large book spending two pages per race to detail the race rules and home world. just so that I have a high density of aliens for a campaign.

I am hoping that they can skimp on certain things and just refer to regular Pathfinder books. There is no need for instance to reprint a ton of spells for instance, and maybe there are other elements that can also be kept out of the book. That would give more room for mechas and such.

They have to be really careful on what is and isn't covered, since it might be quite awhile until the we get another SF hardcover. If people buy this book and don't see some favorite element they really want, they might skip on it (not every group plays with 3pp material to fill those gaps).

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

MMCJawa wrote:
Malwing wrote:

With Hypercorp 2099 in mind as well as a few other third party things There's actually quite a bit I don't want to see in Starfinder because they are complicated things that would kill page count but won't fit into many games so would be better as 3pp design space. The VR and decking is one of them, that is already handled in Hypercorp 2099.

Vehicle and space battle rules are fine but I think Mecha, particularly the construction and customization of them is probably a complex beast that really needs a book to itself to let the rest of the system breathe.

Alternate rules for monetary transactions is probably best as some kind of third party subsystem than one for the core rulebook.

Plant, animal, wooden, and psionic ships are probably better for a third party ship customization book.

I don't want there to be too many aliens because I Star Wars amounts of different aliens to be an option not a rule so I'd rather have some kind of Race Compendium handle that. Even better if Starfinder's fluff sticks to it's own and nearby Solar System so 3pp can fill out the rest of the galaxy. By the Way I'd love a fat book of hat planets; a large book spending two pages per race to detail the race rules and home world. just so that I have a high density of aliens for a campaign.

I am hoping that they can skimp on certain things and just refer to regular Pathfinder books. There is no need for instance to reprint a ton of spells for instance, and maybe there are other elements that can also be kept out of the book. That would give more room for mechas and such.

They have to be really careful on what is and isn't covered, since it might be quite awhile until the we get another SF hardcover. If people buy this book and don't see some favorite element they really want, they might skip on it (not every group plays with 3pp material to fill those gaps).

I'm pretty sure they won't be making reference to the core book, since they've stated they want to make this a separate game and therefore it would be counter-productive to force a reference to a different game book (and require players to buy PF to play SF). They've also said that while things will be backwards compatible, they'll be different, so just like PF couldn't refer back to the 3.5 PH because they changed a lot of little things, SF couldn't refer to PF for the same reasons.


The prospect of reprinting information along side this being presented as a stand alone RPG is one of the main reasons why I really don't want to see vancian casting. On one front you have to basically get reprint a lot of things or the game starts missing a lot of classic and very basic abilities and at that point you just copy and paste huge chunks of the parts of the Pathfinder core rulebook that is the longest part of the book and, given what the landscape of the Pathfinder RPG forums looks like, one of the most problematic and unbalancing part of the game gets inherited unnecessarily. Meanwhile if you interpret some version of Words of Power, modified and streamlined for the logic of the game, You can take up a fraction of that page count and still have a satisfying spellcasting experience. Plus from what I've seen out of third party material something along those lines can be easily adapted to technological logic so you don't have to make completely separate effect resolution mechanics for your chemists, technomancers, biomancers, tinkerers, and cyborgs, just have them access or prepare the effects in different ways and you're good.


Azten wrote:
Malwing wrote:
I think Mecha, particularly the construction and customization of them is probably a complex beast that really needs a book to itself to let the rest of the system breathe.
I'd use the rules for Eidolon and change them to constructs, then apply the rules for Construct Armor. Simple enough, and allows for customization.

That is essentially what we did with the mechwarrior archetype for netjackers (the class gets a proxy or drones, so you just get a sort of synthesist proxy with the archetype).

The CR 15 (level 8 / hyper score 6) game at PaizoCon had a mechwarrior and he was definitely being very mech -- the highlight of the final game was him teleporting to the highest possible point and then firing his guns down at a beastie before hitting his ejector seat to let the suit slam into the creature. It's worth noting though that his mechwarrior bits don't benefit from the hyper score stuff (that CR increase) so by the time you could get a Huge size mech it would end up being pretty beefy.

A standalone book for it might not be a bad idea though. Just start things off with Huge-sized vehicle mecha and go on up to Colossal (a la Warhammer 40k mechs).

Liberty's Edge

FedoraFerret wrote:
I have one small strange thing I don't want included: shared languages. Races who've evolved differently on different planets shouldn't necessarily be able to speak each others languages easily. I would much rather we get an understanding that every species speaks its own language, and there are universal translator systems in the vein of Farscape and Mass Effect. A bit of realism, you can keep translation issues dealing with planets and species that don't have access to translators, and most importantly, I can create an alien scientist character who learned Taldane in order to guarantee efficient conveying of ideas to his shipmates, thus giving me Mordin.

I mentioned this in my last post, but the old PC space exploration game Ironseed handled speaking with aliens really well.

There are half a million people in the galaxy you drifted into that can speak English. (By stunning coincidence, they are all on your ship.) There are eleven spacefaring species that come and go through the galaxy. None of them speak English. Like, at all.

The good news: Your ship has an automatic translation device.

The bad news: It does not know the languages of said eleven spacefaring species; it'll put their words into English, but after you deal with the somewhat unusual syntax that'll inevitably come up, you're still gonna have to make some educated guesses as to the intent. (If you tell, say, the Phaedor Moch, that you have something they need and they say something about trading for it, it's on you whether they're gonna give you some stuff from their cargo holds or a couple missiles before you can get your shields up and running.)


I do not want to see PCs able to take on giant vehicles and starships without having the same themselves. In pathfinder a Zen Archer with a +5 bow can lay low a Kaiju. In Starfinder i dont want to be able to kick a Mechs legs out and sword the pilot through the gorram armor or sniper blast the command bridge of a star destroyer, these are things that should be reserved to extremely rare artifact level Mcguffins that you should never expect to come across or even know the existence of at the start of a campaign.

i know that first part sounds like i am bashing on lightsabers but there still needs to be some kind of limit. Perhaps the highest class of melee weapons, "power" or "light" swords can be used to damage heavy vehicles or ships but it shouldnt be a solid means of destroying them like an adamantine greatsword is for taking out Golems.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Torbyne wrote:

I do not want to see PCs able to take on giant vehicles and starships without having the same themselves. In pathfinder a Zen Archer with a +5 bow can lay low a Kaiju. In Starfinder i dont want to be able to kick a Mechs legs out and sword the pilot through the gorram armor or sniper blast the command bridge of a star destroyer, these are things that should be reserved to extremely rare artifact level Mcguffins that you should never expect to come across or even know the existence of at the start of a campaign.

i know that first part sounds like i am bashing on lightsabers but there still needs to be some kind of limit. Perhaps the highest class of melee weapons, "power" or "light" swords can be used to damage heavy vehicles or ships but it shouldnt be a solid means of destroying them like an adamantine greatsword is for taking out Golems.

Well, I remember reading once that Adamantine was one of the 'more common' 'starmetals'.

What if the reason that it's one of the more 'common' ones was because it could withstand atmospheric re-entry (sort of like the fluff behind noqual)?

Could there be stronger alloys and elements out there in terms of resisting attacks, that just don't handle atmospheric re-entry as well?


Alternate racial favored class bonuses.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Torbyne wrote:

I do not want to see PCs able to take on giant vehicles and starships without having the same themselves. In pathfinder a Zen Archer with a +5 bow can lay low a Kaiju. In Starfinder i dont want to be able to kick a Mechs legs out and sword the pilot through the gorram armor or sniper blast the command bridge of a star destroyer, these are things that should be reserved to extremely rare artifact level Mcguffins that you should never expect to come across or even know the existence of at the start of a campaign.

i know that first part sounds like i am bashing on lightsabers but there still needs to be some kind of limit. Perhaps the highest class of melee weapons, "power" or "light" swords can be used to damage heavy vehicles or ships but it shouldnt be a solid means of destroying them like an adamantine greatsword is for taking out Golems.

Well, I remember reading once that Adamantine was one of the 'more common' 'starmetals'.

What if the reason that it's one of the more 'common' ones was because it could withstand atmospheric re-entry (sort of like the fluff behind noqual)?

Could there be stronger alloys and elements out there in terms of resisting attacks, that just don't handle atmospheric re-entry as well?

The problem with adamantium is how the game models material hardness. Adamantium is straight up magic in that someone with a negative strength mod and an adamantium weapon can still make solid cuts into a steel block (car engine for example).

Basically look at the scope of infantry weapons, they need to have lethal killing power through body armor. once you have something that can defeat an inch or so of body armor you also have something that will defeat the soft fleshy bits behind it. But you are far away from something that will defeat 6" (armored tank/mech) -... oh lets say a ship's hull is around 12" of space armor, comparable to the armored belt of a battleship.

I dont want a laser rifle or chain sword that easily defeats heavy vehicles. If that is possible then why are there heavy vehicles at all?

To put it another way, if someone expects to run up and whack a tank with a mace they better be prepared for the reactive armor discharge and a lot of dumb looks in the afterlife.


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My archer unit sank a battleship in Civilization...

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