Making a Dwarf Geomancer


Advice


So I've always felt Dwarves made the best Geomancers, yet strangely I have yet to find a class or even archetype for an existing class that truly suits the role.

When I think of a Geomancer I think of a mage capable of bending the very earth and stone to his whim with little more then a gesture, whose connection to the earth is so deep it's as if he was earth given a fleshen mortal form, as the origin of Dwarves in some media is said to be.

From my searching the best fit I've been able to find would be a Dwarf Sorcerer with the Deep Earth Bloodline, yet still there are many interesting and power spells with the earth descriptor outside of even a Sorcerer's wide domain like Elemental Swarm or Soften Earth and Stone.

Starting to wonder if there is a class more suited to the role of a Geomancer class. Prehaps an Oracle would be better suited to my vision of the class?

Any feedback or suggestions would be just lovely.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ummm, dwarf geokineticist?

They may not have as many different abilities as 9th level casters, but it's hard to find a class that more tied to their affinity with elements. And dwarves make pretty good kineticists.


Divine magic does non-blasting elementalism a lot more readily than arcane magic. I feel like you'd be best served by a stone spirit shaman or perhaps even a druid, maybe with the menhir savant archetype.

And you can of course always go with the Kineticist, using Earth as your elemental focus.


Shaman 'Geomancer' list.

1st - Hairline Fractures, Magic Stone, Stone Shield
2nd - SNA II(Small Earth Elemental)
3rd - Stone Shape
4th - Earth Glide, Slowing Mud, Spike Stones, SNA IV(Medium Earth Elemental)
5th - Stoneskin, SNA V(Large Earth Elemental)
6th - Flesh to Stone, Stone to Flesh, SNA VI(Huge Earth Elemental), Wall of Stone
7th - Stone Tell, SNA VII(Greater Earth Elemental)
8th - Earthquake, SNA VIII(Elder Earth Elemental)
9th - Elemental Swarm(Earth Elementals)

Also Stone Spirit: Magic stone (1st), stone call (2nd), meld into stone (3rd), wall of stone (4th), stoneskin (5th), stone tell (6th), statue (7th), repel metal and stone (8th), clashing rocks (9th).

Only taking the *explicitly* earth or stone-flavored ones here. You could reflavor a couple spells, especially the buffs, and if you allow for 'plants' to be part of your deal, your options increase quite a lot.

Druid 'Geomancer' list.
1st - Expeditious Construction, Hairline Fractures, Magic Stone, Mighty Fist of the Earth, Mudball, Stone Fist, Thunderstomp
2nd - Binding Earth, Determine Depth, Elemental Speech(Earth), Groundswell, Ironskin, Magic Boulder, Mud Buddy, Soften Earth and Stone, Stone Call, Stone Discus, Stone Throwing, SNA II(Small Earth Elemental), (Spiderclimb?)
3rd - Greater Thunderstomp, Meld into Stone, Raging Rubble, Shifting Sand, Stone Shape
4th - Create Holds, Earth Glide, Obsidian Flow, Slowing Mud, Spike Stones, SNA IV(Medium Earth Elemental) (Blast Barrier, Volcanic Storm?)
5th - Hungry Earth, Stoneskin, SNA V(Large Earth Elemental), Transmute Mud to Rock, Transmute Rock to Mud
6th - Communal Stoneskin, Mass Binding Earth, Move Earth, Stone Tell, SNA VI(Huge Earth Elemental), Tar Pool, Wall of Stone (Dust Form?)
7th - SNA VII(Greater Earth Elemental), Tectonic Communion
8th - Earthquake, SNA VIII(Elder Earth Elemental), Wall of Lava (Repel Metal or Stone, Reverse Gravity?)
9th - Clashing Rocks, Elemental Swarm(Earth Elementals), Shapechange(Elemental form)

Druid Domains
Earth:1st—magic stone, 2nd—soften earth and stone, 3rd—stone shape, 4th—spike stones, 5th—wall of stone, 6th—stoneskin, 7th—elemental body IV (earth only), 8th—earthquake, 9th—elemental swarm (earth spell only).
Cave(Earth):2nd—create pit, 3rd—spiked pit, 6th—hungry pit.

Once again, a lot more can be accomplished with refluffing. Druid is the best bet, I think.


Deighton Thrane wrote:

Ummm, dwarf geokineticist?

They may not have as many different abilities as 9th level casters, but it's hard to find a class that more tied to their affinity with elements. And dwarves make pretty good kineticists.

Certainly true. Bonus to a primary stat, bonus to a stat tied to the one bad save, bonuses vs. spells, ability to wear heavier armor without extra penalties if you bother to get the proficiency, etc.


And the stonesinger alternate racial trait...

Silver Crusade

+1 to the Dwarven Geokineticist, I'm actually playing one and I love the flavor and the crunch.


kadance wrote:
And the stonesinger alternate racial trait...

Not sure if it applies, since kineticists are all SLAs adn supernatural abilities, and that trait applies to spells and applicable bloodline style stuff.

Not sure if it 'should' apply, since it is basically getting a +1 on EVERYTHING you do. In comparison, the usual use of the trait is limited to specific powers and earth descriptor spells (which can be great... but look at the sorcerer spell list, and you see plenty of other things you can use your spells known for as well).


SLAs are spells for the purpose of things like that. Them is the rules, "In All Other Ways", and so forth.

The question is though, does the geokineticist's SLAs have the 'Earth' descriptor? They might easily not, and if they don't, Stonesinger does not apply.

Edit, apparently it does have the earth descriptor, so Stonesinger Geokineticists are in business.

Here's the rules on SLAs

The Rules wrote:

Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is granted.

So barring some specific rules exceptions, such as the specific rules for metamagic feats, anything that applies to spells applies to SLAs.


Olaf the Holy wrote:


So barring some specific rules exceptions, such as the specific rules for metamagic feats, anything that applies to spells applies to SLAs.

Unless there's some kineticist exception I'm unaware of, the above statement about SLAs having a spell descriptor is only true when the SLA in question duplicates a specific spell which has the descriptor. Descriptors are a mechanical term that only applies to spells - in fact many you might think should a descriptor don't. So while all SLAs may be considered spells, they aren't all considered to have descriptors just like all spells aren't considered to have descriptors.


cavernshark wrote:
Olaf the Holy wrote:


So barring some specific rules exceptions, such as the specific rules for metamagic feats, anything that applies to spells applies to SLAs.
Unless there's some kineticist exception I'm unaware of, the above statement about SLAs having a spell descriptor is only true when the SLA in question duplicates a specific spell which has the descriptor. Descriptors are a mechanical term that only applies to spells - in fact many you might think should a descriptor don't. So while all SLAs may be considered spells, they aren't all considered to have descriptors just like all spells aren't considered to have descriptors.

Honestly, I'm kind of flabbergasted here. Did you only read the section you quoted or something?

Almost the entire reminder of the post talks about whether the SLAs have the descriptor, with me going to check, followed by an edit coming back to say that yes, they do indeed.

Here's the rest of the post:

Quote:

SLAs are spells for the purpose of things like that. Them is the rules, "In All Other Ways", and so forth.

The question is though, does the geokineticist's SLAs have the 'Earth' descriptor? They might easily not, and if they don't, Stonesinger does not apply.

Edit, apparently it does have the earth descriptor, so Stonesinger Geokineticists are in business.

Here's the rules on SLAs:
<stuff you did read>


It's actually pretty simple. Nothing you quoted referenced the descriptor at all. And for all your flabbergast you seem to have also failed to read the very first clause in my statement qualifying it based on the existence or nonexistentence of a specific kineticist clause. It turns out that exists, so consider me corrected.

But I guess that makes sense since the kineticist is basically just a jumble of math, edge cases, and deviations from more established rules.


And gnomes with the pyromaniac alternate racial trait fall under the same heading.


Hopefully this isn't too much of a necro, but I was looking for information on the subject and thought I'd help out.

cavernshark wrote:

It's actually pretty simple. Nothing you quoted referenced the descriptor at all. And for all your flabbergast you seem to have also failed to read the very first clause in my statement qualifying it based on the existence or nonexistentence of a specific kineticist clause. It turns out that exists, so consider me corrected.

But I guess that makes sense since the kineticist is basically just a jumble of math, edge cases, and deviations from more established rules.

Quote:
Wild Talents: A kineticist can use wild talents—magical abilities similar to spells but drawn from the kineticist's innate psychic talent and usable at will. Wild talents are typically spell-like abilities (though some are supernatural abilities), and take a standard action to use unless otherwise noted. A wild talent always has the elemental descriptor or descriptors (aether, air, earth, fire, or water) matching its Element entry. A wild talent that can be used with any of several elements gains the appropriate elemental descriptor when used with an element. For example, the wall wild talent gains the earth descriptor when used by a geokineticist.

So yes, a dwarven stonesinging geokineticist would get +1 effective level to all spell like abilities (such as kinetic blast) using earth elements and a pyro gnome would get the same for fire.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Making a Dwarf Geomancer All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.