Listening at the door.


Homebrew and House Rules


So this came up in a game I was DMing. I am relatively new to DMing and would like to understand what the rules in this situation would be by RAW and what people would do if it were a game they were running.

The party has reached a door and wants to listen at it. On the other side of the door, there are some soldiers waiting to ambush them. My understanding of RAW is that this is going to come down to some Perception vs Stealth rolls. The question is what are the bonuses and penalties? I know there would be a -5 to the party's Perception for the door in the way, but do the soldiers get any bonuses for being in position and only trying to stay still and quiet? I can't find anything about Stealth and not moving, except in the case of being invisible where you get a +20 to Stealth. Are the soldiers no better at staying still and quiet than if they were moving at half speed using Stealth? No one can stand perfectly still and quiet so there is a chance they could be discovered, but from how I understand the RAW for Perception and Stealth the party is as likely to perceive the ambushers in this case as they would if the ambushers were moving around or breaking cover completely.

If there is no RAW bonus but I still wanted to give them one, what would be reasonable? The standard +2 circumstance bonus seems low, but +20 like invisibility gives seems unreasonable (and tied to the ability/spell rather than being a general rule).


It seems to me like you have a good grasp of the rules here. The only thing you might be missing is the distance penalties. Unless the soldiers are right next to the door, you may apply some penalties to the player's perception check (-1 for every 10 feet).

Look at it this way. If you give the soldiers +2 circumstance, they are effectively getting +7 to their stealth checks (more if there is distance). If the one of the PCs can still hear them through the door, that player probably invested a fair bit into perception, or your soldiers aren't very sneaky (armor check penalties). I would probably have them all have taken 10 on their stealth to avoid a random low roll giving away the group though.


This is not a Rules Question, you're asking for Homebrew/House Rules advice.
To get to the topic:
Why are the guards using Stealth? Simply standing guard does not warrant you a Stealth check. You need to justify this (not here or to us on the forum, but to your players), otherwise you're just making scouting ahead harder for your players, without any logical reason. Are they aware of the players and are trying to hide/get the jump on them? If not, don't they get bored of just standing there, doing nothing for several hours? They'll probably start to entertain themselves (start a conversation, maybe even drink and play a game of cards if they're regularly posted guards who don't suspect any intruders the 627th night in a row?) Or are they just paid that well?

You are correct in that there's no bonuses for standing still and no penalty for moving at half your speed (or less) while using Stealth. And you should not add any other bonuses either, there's no point in it except making in harder for the players (without reason any other than the one that you want them to fail).

If the guards are using Stealth, the Perception DC is the lowest guard Stealth check +5 for the closed door and +1 for every 10th ft they stand away from the door.

If they are not using Stealth (they're just standing around, maybe striking some casual conversation to pass the time), the Perception DC is 0 to 15 (depending on how loud they speak and how much they're moving around, 0 is a regular conversation and 15 is standing still and whispering) +5 for the door and +1 for every 10th ft they stand away from the door.

EDITED.


Thank-you Jayder22 and Rub-Eta.

I am aware of the distance modifiers to Perception.

My main question was about modifiers to Stealth and Perception, but sorry if this is the wrong board.

@Rub-Eta
In this case the guards were on alert and ready because the party basically rung the front doorbell on their way in (they knew what they had done hence the door listening). As for making things harder. That is the point of the ambush. I wanted the party to have a decent chance at being surprised in this combat, and the modifiers seemed off to me.


If you grant people behind a door a +20 on Stealth for being effectively invisible then I think the big question is how the soldiers will detect that the PCs are at the door, especially if the PCs are using Stealth too. Most parties have at least one PC who refuses to use Stealth or has a very low Stealth modifier, but even somebody with a +1 could get 31 by taking 10 if you're giving that +20 bonus for not being seen.

I'm not sure if merging Listen and Spot into Perception was exactly a "mistake", but it might make sense if the skill could be used to either hear or see enemies with different modifiers and effects for each. Like if the -20 for being invisible only applied to seeing foes then you could hear that somebody was there but not be able to see them. Maybe that's contrary to the spirit of the rules, but it makes more sense to me. Physical barriers like doors would provide some bonuses to not be heard, especially against listeners who didn't have their ears pressed up against them.

Of course pressing your ear to the door could be dangerous too since the door could be a Mimic or infested with Ear Seekers (little worm-like creatures which live in rotting wood and crawl into your ear when you listen at dungeon doors - a few days later their eggs hatch and eat your brain in true Gygaxian fashion)

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