Should the MCU kill off characters?


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The Exchange

More and more, it feels to me like this is one of the biggest questions regarding the future of this gigantic project. Every indication we have in the way they set things up so far is that almost no character ever dies, and when one does it is always either a villain or an extremely minor one. However, by this point the thinking tanks up at Disney/Marvel must already be pondering the continuation of their franchise past the original phases that were planned. The question of what could or should come after the infinity gems storyline is an interesting one, but has a different scope than the discussion I hope to have here. Will the post-Thanos storylines allow character death?

There are two approaches I can see here.

1) Character death is the only sane way forward. The number of characters in the MCU is only increasing with time, and rather rapidly. Even worse, actors get older or become fatigued with their roles. But death in the main cast serves as more than just a convenient logistical solution that helps smooth the engines of a movie franchise that we can expect to stretch over decades and include hundreds of characters. It also increases the stakes and keeps he audience engaged. With the last few Marvel movies it was pretty obvious to almost everyone watching them that no established characters were going to be killed, and by this time people are starting to feel the effect of this choice. Several scenes that were powerful and memorable in The Winter Soldier, for example, just don't work if nobody in the audience is buying it for a second that even remotely important good guys will ever die. The Marvel movies are about conflict and fighting that level cities and scatters armies - at some point characters are going to have to soak up some of the damage too, or the movies will lose a lot of their edge.

2) The MCU is the mythology of the 21st century. It's less about telling a coherent story and more about establishing a pantheon of larger than life heroes and villains, and watching them interact. Nobody is complaining that all the Greek Gods always seem to make it out of any tight corner - they are gods, their existence is a cornerstone of reality. Stories about superheroes do not even need to be encountered in a particular order, let alone have consequences. The value these characters have as legends is far greater than the value of any individual story they participate in. Thus permanently wiping any of them out of the mythology is a fundamental mistake. It goes against what the series is trying to achieve.

To be entirely frank, I'm not even sure which of these approaches is better than the other, which is a problem because they are both direct opposites. I would really be interested to see what people here can bring to this discussion.


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Death should be rare and it should be an event. Much like it is in comics. Unlike comics, it shouldn't easily be reversed.

I'd rather see characters drop out of active use as actors move on or they get less popular, leaving them open to be recast and brought back at a later date. That's certainly preferable in my mind to killing characters off because of bad ratings or when they lose an actor. Death can raise the stakes for the movies, but not if it's too telegraphed - which it's likely to be in most of these cases: Iron Man and Cap are in danger, but we know Evans is signed for the next movie and Downey isn't? Guess who doesn't make it?

Sovereign Court

I see them killing off supporting characters but James Bonding all the main guys as the years go by. Death for a hero will be rare aside from the occasional Quicksilver/Coulson (and that was just Whedon's doing).

Too much money is on the line to "retire" Cap, Iron Man, etc. They may take a back seat as other franchises come and go but I don't see any new guys eclipsing the original stuff. Black Panther has the best shot, but I don't see Strange, Captain Marvel or the Inhumans doing that.


I'm fine with permadeath so long as it's meaningful. Tony slipping and cracking his head in the shower is not a good way to do it. Having him go out in a blaze of glory buying much needed time for the heroes to rally, or a sacrifice to defeat the BBEG is appropriate. Even a not so epic death works if it is built up properly.

But I do not expect much by the way of permadeath in superhero stories.

Sovereign Court

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I'd rather the well established guys take a back seat and see focus on new guys. They can just fade out and in as needed. /shrug


Lord Snow wrote:

2) The MCU is the mythology of the 21st century.

20th Century. Canned, abused and marketed for profits. Killing them doesn't benefit anyone.

The 21st century still has yet to produce anything of note, the 'creative' people are still just rehashing & exploiting the same old stories from five decades ago, because they have nothing of their own.

So, yeah. I don't see Disney doing anything but continuing to exploit the characters that matter. And the source material has plenty of ways to replace one face with another, even without the companies involved just resorting to the Spiderman approach (of just retelling the basics over and over again ad nauseum with a new kid under the mask).

Liberty's Edge

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Just like the Romans rehashed the Greeks, who stole from the Semites who stole from the...

Nothing is truly original. Deal with it.


Character death has always been a hard sell in comics. The universe is too large and weird to permanently foreclose someone returning. Whatever appears to happen to someone is easily reversed with magic, super science, clones, or whatever. Even if a particular writer intends a permanent death, future writers have endless wiggle room.

Commercially, I have a hard time expecting death because the movies are so profitable. If you're making 100's of millions from each movie you're awfully tempted to keep churning them out endlessly. Why kill the golden goose?

Silver Crusade Contributor

Age of Ultron:
I wish we had gotten to spend a little more time with Quicksilver before they killed him off.

I don't mind Hawkeye, but I think it would have been a fine end (if a little sad, with the family and all).


Honestly?

I'd like for Infinity War to lead up to Secret Wars (the new one) and we get EVERYTHING Marvel back.

Sovereign Court

I watched Age of Ultron, and did not witness what Kalindlara said about
Quicksilver. I'm assuming this happens in Civil War, not Age of Ultron? or was Age of Ultron so bad that I blocked that from my memory?

Sigh... either way...


Purple,

Yes Quicksilver died at the end of Age of Ultron. That's why Wanda ripped out Ultron's heart towards the end.


I wouldn't mind if they killed Hawkeye and I have never been big on Blackwidow.


Actually I liked both, but I would have been happier if Bruce's consciousness some how died and thus the Hulk remained.

Now if we REALLY want to be picky about MCU character deaths, they should have just had Inhumans show up and kick Ultron to the curb. :p


Well, MCU Vision is powered by the Mind stone, and there's an empty slot on Thanos's glove, so Vision seems to be a lock for dying.


Norman,

Maybe but there's nothing to suggest removing the Mind Stone kills the Vision any more than removing his head would stop him from coming back to life if you got back on his head.


If people want to see heroes die over and over again, then MCU needs to make Quasar as that character died a LOT in just 60 comics :D but that's the 90's for you.

I agree in general. Once everyone makes their trilogy, they are side tracked and used now and then in other movies. There isn't a need to kill off a character. I don't think Coulson was killed off. I can't remember if it was said in Winter Soldier or of I read about it online for Agents of Shield.

I'm not even sure how much of that is considered canon.

Also, if you kill off a character (say killing off Spidey) that makes it rather difficult to bring back that character in another movie.

Sovereign Court

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Purple,

Yes Quicksilver died at the end of Age of Ultron. That's why Wanda ripped out Ultron's heart towards the end.

Wow. It's like some bard cast repress memory on me at the end of that movie...

Edit: what a crap role for the guy who debuted in 'Kickass'... (although, no doubt, t'was a lucrative gig...)


Does any hero ever die permanently in comics?

I wouldn't expect the movies to be that different.


Scythia wrote:
Does any hero ever die permanently in comics?

Yes. (It's rare, though.)

Sovereign Court

Tacticslion wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Does any hero ever die permanently in comics?
Yes. (It's rare, though.)

Captain Mar-Vell is one of the few that has stayed dead and even he was resurrected briefly. I can't think of too many others now that Bucky and Jason Todd are off the list. I guess there are some original Invaders and Golden Age DC guys that have stayed dead but that's about it.

Oh and Thunderbird!

The Exchange

Voss wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:

2) The MCU is the mythology of the 21st century.

20th Century. Canned, abused and marketed for profits. Killing them doesn't benefit anyone.

The 21st century still has yet to produce anything of note, the 'creative' people are still just rehashing & exploiting the same old stories from five decades ago, because they have nothing of their own.

So, yeah. I don't see Disney doing anything but continuing to exploit the characters that matter. And the source material has plenty of ways to replace one face with another, even without the companies involved just resorting to the Spiderman approach (of just retelling the basics over and over again ad nauseum with a new kid under the mask).

Superheroes have been kicking around in the cultural American zeitgeist of the 20th century, sure, but the escalating ramp of Spiderman->Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy -> the MCU is what really made Superheroes into the world wide phenomenon they are today. I assume more people in the world right now can recite the exploits of Steve Rogers than those who can tell you who Achilles was and why he died.


Scythia wrote:

Does any hero ever die permanently in comics?

I wouldn't expect the movies to be that different.

No. There are only heroes who haven't come back yet.

Liberty's Edge

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Well, there's Deadman, but that's kind of a loophole.

Dark Archive

As actors age or contract out, I'd be fine with their characters dying, in most cases, rather than being recast or (shudder) rebooted. One possible upside of the MCU being a massive tapestry, instead of a collection of mostly unrelated standalone movies, is that rebooting just one character might be too strange, and even recasting a role that's appearing alongside a dozen familiar faces in the Avengers 6: Electric Boogaloo, could be seen as jarring. (Hey, it's Evans and Hemsworth and Johannson and WTH is Charlie Sheen doing pretending to be Robert Downey Jr?)

Robert Downey Jr. has done some fine work as Iron Man, but I think Age of Ultron would have been a fine end to his story, or, if nothing else, Civil War. Captain America already has two potential replacements, between Winter Soldier and Falcon, both of whom have picked up the shield in the comics, and War Machine (or even Rescue-Pepper!) could take over for Iron Man, when that time comes, rather than hire some schmuck to take over after Robert Downey Jr. retires to a Hugh-Hefner-esque lifestyle of slippers, bathrobes and supermodels.

Hawkeye hasn't really even *had* a story yet, and yet I'm tired of him, and would have much rather he bought it than Quicksilver, whose story was just beginning.

About the only one I'd be comfortable with being recast as they aged/contracted out would be Hemsworth as Thor, since he's playing an immortal, and he's, IMO, the weakest link as an actor. Even then, he's also got potential replacements, with his supporting cast, who may lack his power level, but that's hardly an issue on a team with Iron Man, the Vision and the Hulk. Sif's hardly a slouch (and Balder the Brave might be about to debut as well), and would occupy a different tier, but the team finds roles for Falcon and Black Widow, so she should be fine, being 'merely' ridiculously strong and capable.


Set wrote:

As actors age or contract out, I'd be fine with their characters dying, in most cases, rather than being recast or (shudder) rebooted. One possible upside of the MCU being a massive tapestry, instead of a collection of mostly unrelated standalone movies, is that rebooting just one character might be too strange, and even recasting a role that's appearing alongside a dozen familiar faces in the Avengers 6: Electric Boogaloo, could be seen as jarring. (Hey, it's Evans and Hemsworth and Johannson and WTH is Charlie Sheen doing pretending to be Robert Downey Jr?)

Robert Downey Jr. has done some fine work as Iron Man, but I think Age of Ultron would have been a fine end to his story, or, if nothing else, Civil War. Captain America already has two potential replacements, between Winter Soldier and Falcon, both of whom have picked up the shield in the comics, and War Machine (or even Rescue-Pepper!) could take over for Iron Man, when that time comes, rather than hire some schmuck to take over after Robert Downey Jr. retires to a Hugh-Hefner-esque lifestyle of slippers, bathrobes and supermodels.

Hawkeye hasn't really even *had* a story yet, and yet I'm tired of him, and would have much rather he bought it than Quicksilver, whose story was just beginning.

About the only one I'd be comfortable with being recast as they aged/contracted out would be Hemsworth as Thor, since he's playing an immortal, and he's, IMO, the weakest link as an actor. Even then, he's also got potential replacements, with his supporting cast, who may lack his power level, but that's hardly an issue on a team with Iron Man, the Vision and the Hulk. Sif's hardly a slouch (and Balder the Brave might be about to debut as well), and would occupy a different tier, but the team finds roles for Falcon and Black Widow, so she should be fine, being 'merely' ridiculously strong and capable.

I'd rather see characters pushed out for awhile and then brought back recast, than see a MCU where you never see any of the older characters again or face the inevitable reboot of the series.

I think it'll be much less jarring if some time passes between Downey-Stark and Sheen-Stark, to use your example.
While I'm cool with some character replacements, I'd much rather that be story driven than Evans is out, put Stan in the suit, now Stan's done, put Mackie in, he's moving on, let's find another excuse for someone else. It's not like they're likely to want to do this forever either. Nor do I never want to see Steve Rogers again.

Same with deaths, if it makes sense for the story for characters to die, let them go, but don't let casting concerns drive it.

Dark Archive

thejeff wrote:
I'd rather see characters pushed out for awhile and then brought back recast, than see a MCU where you never see any of the older...

Indeed, I'd much rather characters be retired, or 'pushed out' as you say, than killed off. Stark, for instance, is having issues with Pepper over his superheroing, so it would be entirely appropriate for him to hang up the armor and go be with Pepper, leaving his only involvement with the superhero community serving as the upgrade/repair guy for War Machine (and allowing him to stay off-screen).

As various other actors become less available (or inappropriately old for their roles), the same sorts of story elements could be worked in. (Thor needs to spend more time in Asgard, with some other Asgardian character like Sif or Valkyrie or whomever taking up the earth-champion role, for example. Captain America hands off the shield and takes up a role with SHIELD, becoming more like Fury, not necessarily showing up all the time, while someone like Winter Soldier or Cap or a new character like USAgent or Nomads takes on the Captain America mantle.)

Killing off the characters is unnecessary, IMO.


What I'd like to see is all of the Avengers die or at least vanish and apparently die in the final battle against Thanos. All except Hawkeye, that is, because what the hell is he gonna do, put on a spacesuit and shoot frickin' arrows at Thanos?

The massive threat of Thanos is removed, but now also are Earth's Mightiest Heroes! Who will protect everyone?

The Thunderbolts, of course!

In the comics, the Avengers seemingly died against I think it was Onslaught, so Zemo took a group of second-rate villains and made them pretend to be heroes to gain the public trust and, ultimately, the SHIELD access codes to take over the world.

In his moment of (near) glory, his team decides they like to be heroes and thwart him. Guess who takes over leadership of the Thunderbolts (for a time) after evil Zemo is thwarted? Hawkeye! I woudn't mind having a more grizzled Jeremy Renner lead the team in Thunderbolts 2 and then die heroically. Then Zemo can come back for Thunderbolts 3 and get the moonstones.

I mean, you already have an awesome Zemo (I thought he was great in Civil War) and one who is certainly more likely to redeem himself and become a hero than the one that was in the comics.

This allows a fresh crop of movies and characters and keeps things interesting. I also think it would be cool if, in the current phase of movies, there were just little vignettes of the (future) Thunderbolts getting defeated by the mainstream heroes. Spiderman is web-slinging and gets a call from Tony to go mount up against Thanos.

"Hold on Mr. Stark, one sec." He knocks out Beetle in one punch, webs him up for the cops to get him, and swings off.

I just think this would be awesome. It also gives the actors a break to do other things and, if 8 years later or whatever they decide they want the MCU money again well, poof, Zemo uses the moonstones to bring the heroes back for one last hurrah.


Callous Jack wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Does any hero ever die permanently in comics?
Yes. (It's rare, though.)

Captain Mar-Vell is one of the few that has stayed dead and even he was resurrected briefly. I can't think of too many others now that Bucky and Jason Todd are off the list. I guess there are some original Invaders and Golden Age DC guys that have stayed dead but that's about it.

Oh and Thunderbird!

Banshee. It was a pretty big deal.

I just Googled it, and this list is pretty old, but it has a few.

But I'd be interested if anyone knew the current status of any of those.


Lord Snow wrote:


Superheroes have been kicking around in the cultural American zeitgeist of the 20th century, sure, but the escalating ramp of Spiderman->Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy -> the MCU is what really made Superheroes into the world wide phenomenon they are today. I assume more people in the world right now can recite the exploits of Steve Rogers than those who can tell you who Achilles was and why he died.

Yes, and? When a few movies were made doesn't really change the nature of the characters (even if the rejiggered origin stories are just sad- Black Widow was a missed opportunity here, even if the explanation [that she's THE Natasha Romanov, and only a decade or so younger than Cap] would have been tricky to explain in a sane fashion to an unknowing audience). Neither when they were written, or what they were written in response to.

If the terrible films about Troy and the Greeks had been good, Achilles would have remained a classical(or whichever era) Greek character even he somehow began popular in the 20th century.

@Krensky- despite missing the point entirely, I assume that was directed at me. Nothing I said was a comment on 'originality.' Just that the characters are reactions to 20th century issues, ideals and social concerns, not 21st century ones.

Movie studios and comics are effectively bankrupt creatively because it is financially safer to simply make existing concepts shinier (and add more explosions) than take risks on new ones.


Technically, in the MCU, Natasha is both older and younger then cap.

He actually met her when she was a child, kidnapped by the Hand for her potential as an assassin. However, she lived through the intervening years, and he was stuck in ice. In terms of years and experience, she's actually decades older then he is.


Tacticslion wrote:
But I'd be interested if anyone knew the current status of any of those.

It's hard to say "___ is permanently dead" in reference to comic books. For example, a certain brilliant and handsome villain "died" in July 1973, and spent well over 20 years "dead", before his return in December 1996.

No comic book character is permanently dead...they just haven't returned yet.

And they should just install a revolving door on Jean Grey's tomb.

Dark Archive

All this talk just makes me want to see the West Coast Avengers.


So what, War Machine, Hawkeye, the Vision and Black Widow with who else, Nenkota?

Dark Archive Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere

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Thomas Seitz wrote:
So what, War Machine, Hawkeye, the Vision and Black Widow with who else, Nenkota?

Hank as a something of a mission control and Tigra as a new character. MAKE THIS HAPPEN PEOPLE.

Dark Archive

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Rosgakori wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
So what, War Machine, Hawkeye, the Vision and Black Widow with who else, Nenkota?
Hank as a something of a mission control and Tigra as a new character. MAKE THIS HAPPEN PEOPLE.

Yes, Tigra! (Who, canonically, was almost twice as strong as Luke Cage, but that got retconned in a darn hurry when Bendis wanted Luke Cage to be an Avenger team lead, and Tigra to get beat up and humiliated on Youtube by a villain with normal human strength...) Then again, the MCU might not be quite ready for her demon-cat-people origin, and have to go with something like 'she ate Terrigen fish pills! Now she's a cat-peep! Origin sorted! Bang!'

USAgent was also an interesting part of that team, for a time, and the government trying to make their own 'Captain America' now that Rogers is AWOL could flow logically from what has just happened in Civil War. It's a little bit awkward for America's 'Captain America' to be off the reservation, and I'm sure some Senator (who is totally not Hydra, but still an opportunistic jerk looking to hitch his wagon to a spangly star) to rustle up some cornfed musclebound only-a-little-bit off-his-meds violent 'super-patriot' to fill suit.

Can John Cena act? He looks a little bit like John Walker...

Dark Archive

Set wrote:
Rosgakori wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:
So what, War Machine, Hawkeye, the Vision and Black Widow with who else, Nenkota?
Hank as a something of a mission control and Tigra as a new character. MAKE THIS HAPPEN PEOPLE.

Yes, Tigra! (Who, canonically, was almost twice as strong as Luke Cage, but that got retconned in a darn hurry when Bendis wanted Luke Cage to be an Avenger team lead, and Tigra to get beat up and humiliated on Youtube by a villain with normal human strength...) Then again, the MCU might not be quite ready for her demon-cat-people origin, and have to go with something like 'she ate Terrigen fish pills! Now she's a cat-peep! Origin sorted! Bang!'

USAgent was also an interesting part of that team, for a time, and the government trying to make their own 'Captain America' now that Rogers is AWOL could flow logically from what has just happened in Civil War. It's a little bit awkward for America's 'Captain America' to be off the reservation, and I'm sure some Senator (who is totally not Hydra, but still an opportunistic jerk looking to hitch his wagon to a spangly star) to rustle up some cornfed musclebound only-a-little-bit off-his-meds violent 'super-patriot' to fill suit.

Can John Cena act? He looks a little bit like John Walker...

Yea, Tigra is one of my favorites. However, she often gets treated sort of badly by some authors.

Dark Archive

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As far as I am concerned, you call kill off ALL of the heroes. I will not object.


Set wrote:
Can John Cena act? He looks a little bit like John Walker...

I recommend you view that for yourself Set. I don't want to ruin your hope.

As for me if they do bring in John Walker aka US Agent, I'd kind of want maybe Liam or else possibly Hunter Parrish.

Sovereign Court

Tacticslion wrote:

Banshee. It was a pretty big deal.

He's already alive again, thanks to the Apocalypse Twins.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
So what, War Machine, Hawkeye, the Vision and Black Widow with who else, Nenkota?

Whoever is the flavor of the week with the WCA.

If I recall, Hawkeye was typically the leader, interestingly enough, and Vision...was...well Vision.

Didn't Wanda go off with them for a while...that's a way to boost their firepower substantially.

Except for Wanda and the Vision they were mostly second tiers to the real thing (War Machine = Iron Man, US Agent = Captain America, Hawkeye = Mini Captain America/Pym without a suit...though I think Hawkeye had the Yellowjacket for a while).

You could have Black Knight (that could be an interesting storyline) for something weird in there and for their Thor (mythological guy) replacement type thingy.


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Killing off the heroes in the movies has no real benefit. All it does shut down future options.

Why would there need to be a 'threat of death?' to make a movie interesting? 99% of the movies I watch I know the main character isn't going to die. There are very very few movies where the hero of the show actually drops at the end

What to do with actors who quit or get old? Fade them out! There are a LOT of Avengers comics out there with NO IRON MAN AT ALL... Or Thor... or even Captain America. They don't need to die bloody on screen to explain their absence... they're just 'not there' for this adventure. Much like Thor and Hulk in Civil War or Iron Man in Winter Soldier.. These characters all have their own lives and aren't always sitting around waiting for their phones to go off...

This whole thing is REALLY a non-issue.

Dark Archive

phantom1592 wrote:

Killing off the heroes in the movies has no real benefit. All it does shut down future options.

Why would there need to be a 'threat of death?' to make a movie interesting? 99% of the movies I watch I know the main character isn't going to die. There are very very few movies where the hero of the show actually drops at the end.

So true. I don't go into a James Bond or Jason Bourne movie wondering if he dies this time. Same for movies with larger casts, I don't expect one of the Ocean's +1 movie team or one of the Star Trek crew to kick the bucket in every outing.

Quote:

What to do with actors who quit or get old? Fade them out! There are a LOT of Avengers comics out there with NO IRON MAN AT ALL... Or Thor... or even Captain America. They don't need to die bloody on screen to explain their absence... they're just 'not there' for this adventure. Much like Thor and Hulk in Civil War or Iron Man in Winter Soldier.. These characters all have their own lives and aren't always sitting around waiting for their phones to go off...

This whole thing is REALLY a non-issue.

Exactly. Want a movie post-Robert Downey, Jr.? Use him in an off-screen role as a source of gear, but he's sworn to never again let his Iron Man adventuring mess up his new life with Pepper, running Stark Enterprises. He can still be name-dropped, or even appear in a 5 second flashback cameo, if the studio wants to throw RDJ some more money and make fans go squee, but Tony Stark isn't *necessary* to the MCU, any more than Victor von Doom or Charles Xavier has been.

He's got a built-in replacement in War Machine, if necessary, and Captain America has multiple possible replacements, from Winter Soldier and Falcon, seen on-screen, to others not yet shown, like USAgent (who could be Nuke, from the Jessica Jones Netflix series, playing the same character from that series, for all I care). Thor could return to run Asgard, with the All-Father being sick or dead, and Sif or the new Valkyrie or one of the annoying Warriors Three, or a new character like Baldar, could take his place as resident-Asgardian-on-Earth. To say nothing of introducing Thunderstrike or Beta Ray Bill or the Jane Foster Thor (although, given that the actress playing Jane Foster seems unfond of the role, and fans lukewarm on her as well, perhaps not...).

And that's even assuming that any of these characters need a version on a future Avengers team. Plenty of Avengers lineups didn't have a Thor, Captain America or Iron Man legacy character, and got along just fine.


Set wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:

Killing off the heroes in the movies has no real benefit. All it does shut down future options.

Why would there need to be a 'threat of death?' to make a movie interesting? 99% of the movies I watch I know the main character isn't going to die. There are very very few movies where the hero of the show actually drops at the end.

So true. I don't go into a James Bond or Jason Bourne movie wondering if he dies this time. Same for movies with larger casts, I don't expect one of the Ocean's +1 movie team or one of the Star Trek crew to kick the bucket in every outing.

Quote:

What to do with actors who quit or get old? Fade them out! There are a LOT of Avengers comics out there with NO IRON MAN AT ALL... Or Thor... or even Captain America. They don't need to die bloody on screen to explain their absence... they're just 'not there' for this adventure. Much like Thor and Hulk in Civil War or Iron Man in Winter Soldier.. These characters all have their own lives and aren't always sitting around waiting for their phones to go off...

This whole thing is REALLY a non-issue.

Exactly. Want a movie post-Robert Downey, Jr.? Use him in an off-screen role as a source of gear, but he's sworn to never again let his Iron Man adventuring mess up his new life with Pepper, running Stark Enterprises. He can still be name-dropped, or even appear in a 5 second flashback cameo, if the studio wants to throw RDJ some more money and make fans go squee, but Tony Stark isn't *necessary* to the MCU, any more than Victor von Doom or Charles Xavier has been.

He's got a built-in replacement in War Machine, if necessary, and Captain America has multiple possible replacements, from Winter Soldier and Falcon, seen on-screen, to others not yet shown, like USAgent (who could be Nuke, from the Jessica Jones Netflix series, playing the same character from that series, for all I care). Thor could return to run Asgard, with the All-Father being sick or dead, and Sif or the new Valkyrie or one of the annoying Warriors Three, or a new character like Baldar, could take his place as resident-Asgardian-on-Earth. To say nothing of introducing Thunderstrike or Beta Ray Bill or the Jane Foster Thor (although, given that the actress playing Jane Foster seems unfond of the role, and fans lukewarm on her as well, perhaps not...).

And that's even assuming that any of these characters need a version on a future Avengers team. Plenty of Avengers lineups didn't have a Thor, Captain America or Iron Man legacy character, and got along just fine.

On the other hand, it's out of character for a lot of superheroes to just retire.

I don't object to switching up the team, that certainly happens all the time in the comics. But in the comics they always come back and that's what I'd like to see in the movies as well. Sure, if Robert Downey takes off, bring War Machine in for movie or two, though he'll likely take off too. But I don't want to never see Tony Stark/Iron Man again. The same with all the others.

Let them lay fallow for a couple movies then recast and bring the characters back.
In fact, they've already recast a couple characters - both Bruce Banner and James Rhodes have switched actors for various reasons. No reason not to do so again as needed.


thejeff wrote:
Set wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:

Killing off the heroes in the movies has no real benefit. All it does shut down future options.

Why would there need to be a 'threat of death?' to make a movie interesting? 99% of the movies I watch I know the main character isn't going to die. There are very very few movies where the hero of the show actually drops at the end.

So true. I don't go into a James Bond or Jason Bourne movie wondering if he dies this time. Same for movies with larger casts, I don't expect one of the Ocean's +1 movie team or one of the Star Trek crew to kick the bucket in every outing.

Quote:

What to do with actors who quit or get old? Fade them out! There are a LOT of Avengers comics out there with NO IRON MAN AT ALL... Or Thor... or even Captain America. They don't need to die bloody on screen to explain their absence... they're just 'not there' for this adventure. Much like Thor and Hulk in Civil War or Iron Man in Winter Soldier.. These characters all have their own lives and aren't always sitting around waiting for their phones to go off...

This whole thing is REALLY a non-issue.

Exactly. Want a movie post-Robert Downey, Jr.? Use him in an off-screen role as a source of gear, but he's sworn to never again let his Iron Man adventuring mess up his new life with Pepper, running Stark Enterprises. He can still be name-dropped, or even appear in a 5 second flashback cameo, if the studio wants to throw RDJ some more money and make fans go squee, but Tony Stark isn't *necessary* to the MCU, any more than Victor von Doom or Charles Xavier has been.

He's got a built-in replacement in War Machine, if necessary, and Captain America has multiple possible replacements, from Winter Soldier and Falcon, seen on-screen, to others not yet shown, like USAgent (who could be Nuke, from the Jessica Jones Netflix series, playing the same character from that series, for all I care). Thor could return to run Asgard, with the All-Father being sick or dead, and Sif or the

...

On the other hand, it's out of character for a lot of superheroes to just retire.

I don't object to switching up the team, that certainly happens all the time in the comics. But in the comics they always come back and that's what I'd like to see in the movies as well. Sure, if Robert Downey takes off, bring War Machine in for movie or two, though he'll likely take off too. But I don't want to never see Tony Stark/Iron Man again. The same with all the others.

Let them lay fallow for a couple movies then recast and bring the characters back.
In fact, they've already recast a couple characters - both Bruce Banner and James Rhodes have switched actors for various reasons. No reason not to do so again as needed.

Even if they don't 'retire'... They still don't need to show up. They have their own adventures. Where was Tony when the helicarriers fell out of the sky? He was at a business meeting in Japan that week. Hawkeye was undercover somewhere. They felt Cap had it.

Heroes by nature are very self-sufficient.

RDJ could easily never show up in another movie... and Iron man/Tony could still be 'active' in the world. OR they could recast... I don't have a problem with that... I just don't feel the entire Marvel universe revolves around Iron Man. In the 90's he had dropped to such a C list character that NOBODY knew what to do with the character. This idea that EVERY show needs to have him... and a massive panic if RDJ gets bored with the role boggles my mind.

The only real exception are the 'Infinity' movies that are designed to have EVERYONE in them. Then I get sad when people don't show up... Though if they went 'comic' version, Thanos would snap his fingers and wipe out half of all life... so there's an excuse why XXXXXX wasn't in that movie too...

WITHOUT the need for epic bloodbaths or death scenes....


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Every show needs to have him because he's a popular character, largely because of RDJ's portrayal. That's pure business. :)
Not that he's actually been in all the movies.

And not just Iron Man either. I'd hate to never see Steve Rogers again. Or Thor. Or Spiderman, for that matter. Or pretty much any of them. They certainly don't all need to be in every movie, but I like seeing the various older characters interact with the newer ones and their old friend's successors.

Keep bringing in new characters. That's great. Keep bringing back the old ones too. Recast them as needed - a new take on a character can bring new life to them, as long as you get good actors and don't just recast with hacks. Just like in the comics, characters change with new writers and artists.

Just please don't reboot the whole thing and make us have origin stories all over again. That's been the default approach to superhero movies in the past and I'm so done with it.


MCU Steve Rogers in character is pretty likely to take a dirt nap as he'll die for what he believes in.

Thor I can see biting it, Jane Foster (original actress cameo) gets Mjolnir, Lady Thor dons the mantle (new actress) and voila, opening scene for Infinity Wars part deux is provided.

Come to think of it, Infinity Wars 1 is begging for the transitions hinted at over the past few films. Killing off Cap, Fury and Thor - along with who knows who else - and severe injury/mind-screwing of Tony Stark could usher in new characters as the Avengers could work if done well.

Hulk is another one likely to shed the actor over the next few appearances. Perhaps as a result of a "Planet Hulk" scenario as a result of Infinity Wars? (Getting wuss-slapped by Thanos into orbit might do that.)

The MCU project has been a long time in the making. It needs transitional sets with such a large scope. Actors "age out" or otherwise become unwilling to continue the role.

Sovereign Court

Turin the Mad wrote:
The MCU project has been a long time in the making. It needs transitional sets with such a large scope. Actors "age out" or otherwise become unwilling to continue the role.

More likely we'll see a reboot of the MCU with new actors rather than this complicated killing of heroes you speak of.

And I don't see Natalie Portman ever playing a role with a helmet.


Tacticslion wrote:

Banshee. It was a pretty big deal.

Callous Jack wrote:
He's already alive again, thanks to the Apocalypse Twins.

He's what thanks to who?

Wh-...

... wwwhhhhaaaaahhhh...?

O.o

Dark Archive

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~curses~ But I WANT some dead heroes!

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