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At least DC has John Stewart?
Not sure how much presence he has in the actual comics themselves though.
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Marvel has done considerably better with non-white characters through their history than DC has. I'd also say Marvel has less of a problem with limited series to give fans a chance to warm up to a new character than DC does. I think race plays a role here, but not as large a role as some might think.
DC has a problem getting away from their perceived 'Trinity' or top-tier characters. It's Batman and Superman, or bust, and they resist non-original characters*, such as Flashes not named Barry Allen or Green Lanterns not named Hal Jordan, both of whom they've managed to kill of and replace, sometimes for *decades.* As a result, a big chunk of their stories about white guys.
Sony is kind of doing the same thing with the X-Men films, first being 'Wolverine and his amazing friends' and now being 'Magneto and Mystique and their amazing friends' for the most part.
(*Granted, I should be able to type Alan Scott and Jay Garrick there, for 'original,' but they predated Geoff Johns childhood, and so don't count as 'original.')
Marvel has somewhat lucked out in having so many 'iconic' characters scattered between the X-Men, Fantastic Four, Avengers, Hulk and Spider-Man that they've generally not been as stuck making twelve Batman titles and calling it a day. That said, without the X-Men, which is a treasure trove of different races and ethnicities and strong women, the rest of the MCU can come across almost as white-dude-heavy as the DCU, and Marvel has fairly recently gone a bit Iron Man-happy, including him in other characters movies, or throwing him in titles where he feels kind of like stunt-casting, such as having him join the Guardians of the Galaxy. Iron Man might be turning into Marvel's Johnny Everywhere (as Wolverine was, for a time)...
Ok...someone who has read this Civil War 2 thing explain something to me
How Does She-Hulk get killed by a Rocket?
How does she even get hurt by a Rocket?
She's a freaking Hulk, ok She's not Bruce but She's still a Hulk.
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Ok...someone who has read this Civil War 2 thing explain something to me
How Does She-Hulk get killed by a Rocket?
How does she even get hurt by a Rocket?
She's a freaking Hulk, ok She's not Bruce but She's still a Hulk.
For the love of god.
Use the spoiler tags.
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BRB Google time
Apparently it was a missile designed to kill Thanos, and Rhodey just happened to have that on him...because.
And it doesn't have any smart targeting systems because he got jostled and it threw off his aim. Also because.
Basically, she was killed by bad writing that just happened to be rocket shaped.
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And while she may be a Hulk, she's not THE Incredible Hulk.
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Ok...someone who has read this Civil War 2 thing explain something to me
How Does She-Hulk get killed by a Rocket?
How does she even get hurt by a Rocket?
She's a freaking Hulk, ok She's not Bruce but She's still a Hulk.
Should I be concerned that the first thing that came into my mind was the raccoon?
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On the flip side, DC has done far more replacing of original (or Silver Age, really) characters with new and often diverse variations. Admittedly, they often don't take too well and/or have the originals come back for nostalgic reasons, but they do make the effort more than Marvel has. Most of their 2nd tier (non Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman) characters have had fairly long term replacements, a good number of them not white.Neither companies A-list characters show much diversity mostly because they date to the early 70s, or more likely the 60s.
Yep. It's hard to take seriously complaints about DC not replacing their characters. In the 90's there was a glut of new characters that were given their chance. Steel/Superboy/Eradicator, AzBats, Artemis-WW, Wally West of course, Kyle Rayner, Jason todd/Tim Drake, Knife Guy FATE, Connor Hawke, Hawkman and Hawkwoman were retooled repeatedly...
ALL the A-list characters were replaced. in the 90's there was the age old adage that Marvel Ressurects their characters... DC replaces them.
Only AZ-bats and Superman were really 'planned' to come back... the rest ran their books till fans demanded the return of the originals. Steel had his shot. Between movies and TV and Solo series and guest star slots and JLA team member...
I really don't know what DC would be expected to do that wasnt' done. The public just didn't flock to him. Possibly because he was TOO MUCH like Iron Man and had a bit of a 'rip off' vibe to him.
That's the other downside of 'new' characters. There really aren't that many hooks out there that hasn't already been done to death. It's tough for anyone new to really feel fresh or original.
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Basically, she was killed by bad writing that just happened to be rocket shaped.
She wasn't the only one killed.
Edit: More pissed off
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I loved those old What if... issues. Also was a huge fan of Elseworlds.
So many stupid crappy stories that would have been cool as a 'What if' that became railroaded into 'main story' and forced to be a status quo...
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Should I be concerned that the first thing that came into my mind was the raccoon?Ok...someone who has read this Civil War 2 thing explain something to me
How Does She-Hulk get killed by a Rocket?
How does she even get hurt by a Rocket?
She's a freaking Hulk, ok She's not Bruce but She's still a Hulk.
No. For he is a fuzzy engine of destruction.
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Yep. It's hard to take seriously complaints about DC not replacing their characters. In the 90's there was a glut of new characters that were given their chance. Steel/Superboy/Eradicator, AzBats, Artemis-WW, Wally West of course, Kyle Rayner, Jason todd/Tim Drake, Knife Guy FATE, Connor Hawke, Hawkman and Hawkwoman were retooled repeatedly...
Indeed, and they were successful as well. Wally West and Kyle Rayner both and good long runs as their respective replacements. And Tim Drake was, if I recall correctly, the first Robin to have his own long-running title.
The less said about "knife-guy" Fate, the better.....
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What ever happened with that storyline where Dr doom became god and fixed everything, including erasing one more day?
He didn't actually fix things so much as slap paint over crap and made himself God in a world of patchwork realities he managed to slap together while Strange stood around and watched.
Going back to CW II, while it is pretty crappy what happened to two of Marvel's best secondary characters (underused as they are), I think the weight was necessary because they've already killed off Alpha Flight more than once, Tony can't kill Mary Jane (at least not without Mephisto's help) and the rest...well the rest seems to be all about what the Inhumans are doing.
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Superman came back to life, of course, but we also got Steel and a new Superboy out of the deal.Oh don't get me started about Steel.
Steel *should* be an A lister. I mean you have a guy who did the whole Tony Stark thing, Inventor, self made hero, etc, along with the best of Rhodey (physically fit, athlete, capable hand to hand combatant.) This guy should be put out front and center as a 'new hero' and he's relegated to second place. He's also a family man, community oriented etc...
but he sits in limbo.
So here's Dc's Tony Stark, and they don't use him.
My dream casting for him? The much underused Jamil Walker Smith or Roger Cross.
Him and the Michael Holt Mister Terrific. I thought those guys were great.
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Michael Holt Mister Terrific is the best one, no question.
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Michael Holt Mister Terrific is the best one, no question.
I really wish his comic had been better
It's like they had an editorial mandate to make sure every issue clearly spelled out that he was A) Black and B) the THIRD smartest man in the world.
it was just painful.
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Why's everyone talking like Steel was never made into a movie? No, seriously.I don't know what you're talking about.
You're one of the lucky ones, Freehold.
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Michael Holt Mister Terrific is the best one, no question.I really wish his comic had been better
It's like they had an editorial mandate to make sure every issue clearly spelled out that he was A) Black and B) the THIRD smartest man in the world.
it was just painful.
Yeah that was pretty unfortunate. Same thing I felt with Captain Atom.
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Yeah that was pretty unfortunate. Same thing I felt with Captain Atom.Michael Holt Mister Terrific is the best one, no question.I really wish his comic had been better
It's like they had an editorial mandate to make sure every issue clearly spelled out that he was A) Black and B) the THIRD smartest man in the world.
it was just painful.
I felt a similar tack was taken with Ryan Choi as the Atom.
They also tried to thug out both Cage and Black Lightning back in the day. Those were dark days for the characters.
Strangely enough, it worked out quite well for the Falcon, but that may be because of interesting situations/good writing.
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That and at the time, Falcon didn't have much else other than being able to fly.
Now he's got more.
Michael Holt Mister Terrific is the best one, no question.I really wish his comic had been better
It's like they had an editorial mandate to make sure every issue clearly spelled out that he was A) Black and B) the THIRD smartest man in the world.
it was just painful.
I'll be honest, I was never a fan of Mr. Terrific for pretty much that reason. There's just something about a character that they keep telling us is awesome that really turns me off to him. He seemed designed to be the best at everything ever. He was like that era's Batman... but without having the 80 years of history to back it up. He just kind of came out of the gate being the bestest ever at everything!!!
And that was just in the JSA books, They didn't seem to focus much on the black aspect, so not sure what they did in his own book... but for me, I read the JSA book for the 'original' team. GL, Flash, Wildcat, Sandman, Hawkman etc... when they dropped back to 'teacher' mode and the book shifted focus on all the new characters... I lost interest fast. What they did with Dr. Midnight was a crying shame... He was probably the coolest of the new legacy characters and got one or two great stories... then was delegated to out of combat Healbot >.<
But yeah, I don't like characters who are the bestest at everything. it's also why I can't stand Black Panther. Smart as Mr. Fantastic, Better Tech then Iron Man, Better fighter then Captain America...
YAWN...
Batman is the only 'because he's BATMAN...' type I can stand... and that's mostly grandfathered in from more humble days.
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[...]because everyone hated the Superior Spider-man, [...]
Superior Spider-Man was great. Made me come back to the title after years of brand new day b%%%#&~@. When they unceremoniously cakked Otto in like, a few panels on a page or two, that's when I was truly done with this. All of it (i.e. Pathfinder Comics is the only title I still buy at this point).
Marvel/DC/most of the high volume comics industry has suffered in the last 20 years due to entire writer teams rotating every 6 months or so, and it just sucks. When universes reboot every g**$&$ year, something's not right.
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Mr Terrific dates from 1942. Holt is the second one.
I'm aware. It was the second one we were talking about. The first didn't do all that much and died a LONG time. He didn't even make the Ragnarok/Limbo time jump if I Recall. Certainly wasn't in the 90's welcome back reboot.
We won't even discuss the 'original' JSA.
Why? Not sure the tone implied there...
As for Panther, no. He's nowhere near as smart as Tony (who is no where near as smart as Richards, who is nowhere near as smart as Pym). His tech isn't really that impressive, certainly it's not on the level of Stark. As for Cap, well yeah, but that's because they have similar levels of skill but T'Challa is actually super human, where Rogers is merely the pinnacle of human ability.
It's probably a reality vs. perception thing. Seems like everytime BP gets mentioned, someone comes out of the wordwork proclaiming his awesomeness. His suit is vibranium... his weapons unstoppable... his skill unparralled... Reed never seemed to have dumb down his tech speak for BP or his jets were faster then the avengers ones... Always something.
Even in the cartoons he seemed always in the position to either rescue the entire Avengers... or defeat them on his own... overriding Avengers Security on his own...
Always bored me when one man is better then everyone else... Unless of course that's Captain America. I love watching him take apart a group on his own ;) But that's always within his skill set. Physical skill and tactics. Not a case of just being better at everything...
Wait... did you say Pym was smarter then Richards? That's an unusual stance...
It's Marvel's stance.
Is it a recent thing? Pym never seemed to get much respect for... what? Decades? Seems like just recently since like Age of Ultron they've tried pushing how important he actually is.
Prior to that? Shrink ray and malfunctioning robot certainly wasn't as impressive Reeds 'Make whatever it is I need for JUST THIS MOMENT!!!' that he could whip up whenever he needed. Anything from dimensional portals to machines to restore Galactus. Knowing the unknowable was always his thing. It's why Doom was so jealous all the time...
Now I kind of want to see Doom go after Pym...
Ah, the great comic book struggle - the fight between creative license and conserving a franchise character.
Comic companies are loathe to rock the boat with a successful franchise. Ben Parker will stay dead, even if the rest of the Marvel universe treats death like a revolving door. Comic writers wish to go wherever they want, sometimes leading to great storylines, and sometimes crashing to the ground. The only time such storylines stick is when fans love it, or when there is some business plan by the comic owners to make it stick (such as making sure Wolverine stays dead in the comics until the cinematic rights to the character reverts to Marvel/Disney).
Judging by fan reaction, the Cap storyline won't stick. It would make a great running joke for a Bob, agent of hydra storyline.
I LOVED THAT ISSUE!
Getting sexually harassed by evil heads of Hydra, having to go to countless funerals whenever Nick Fury busts in..
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It's Marvel's stance.Is it a recent thing? Pym never seemed to get much respect for... what? Decades? Seems like just recently since like Age of Ultron they've tried pushing how important he actually is.
Prior to that? Shrink ray and malfunctioning robot certainly wasn't as impressive Reeds 'Make whatever it is I need for JUST THIS MOMENT!!!' that he could whip up whenever he needed. Anything from dimensional portals to machines to restore Galactus. Knowing the unknowable was always his thing. It's why Doom was so jealous all the time...
Now I kind of want to see Doom go after Pym...
Yeah, I always figured Richards was the smartest by far. Pym seemed smart but not on the same level. He seemed like he was on the same level as Stark and maybe Beast.
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Michael Holt Mister Terrific is the best one, no question.I really wish his comic had been better
It's like they had an editorial mandate to make sure every issue clearly spelled out that he was A) Black and B) the THIRD smartest man in the world.
it was just painful.I'll be honest, I was never a fan of Mr. Terrific for pretty much that reason. There's just something about a character that they keep telling us is awesome that really turns me off to him. He seemed designed to be the best at everything ever. He was like that era's Batman... but without having the 80 years of history to back it up. He just kind of came out of the gate being the bestest ever at everything!!!
And that was just in the JSA books, They didn't seem to focus much on the black aspect, so not sure what they did in his own book... but for me, I read the JSA book for the 'original' team. GL, Flash, Wildcat, Sandman, Hawkman etc... when they dropped back to 'teacher' mode and the book shifted focus on all the new characters... I lost interest fast. What they did with Dr. Midnight was a crying shame... He was probably the coolest of the new legacy characters and got one or two great stories... then was delegated to out of combat Healbot >.<
But yeah, I don't like characters who are the bestest at everything. it's also why I can't stand Black Panther. Smart as Mr. Fantastic, Better Tech then Iron Man, Better fighter then Captain America...
YAWN...
Batman is the only 'because he's BATMAN...' type I can stand... and that's mostly grandfathered in from more humble days.
but that creates an ugly situation where noone can be an unarmed combat tech based detective superhero because batman.
Which has resulted in a lot of nonsense over the years.
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Yeah, I always figured Richards was the smartest by far. Pym seemed smart but not on the same level. He seemed like he was on the same level as Stark and maybe Beast.It's Marvel's stance.Is it a recent thing? Pym never seemed to get much respect for... what? Decades? Seems like just recently since like Age of Ultron they've tried pushing how important he actually is.
Prior to that? Shrink ray and malfunctioning robot certainly wasn't as impressive Reeds 'Make whatever it is I need for JUST THIS MOMENT!!!' that he could whip up whenever he needed. Anything from dimensional portals to machines to restore Galactus. Knowing the unknowable was always his thing. It's why Doom was so jealous all the time...
Now I kind of want to see Doom go after Pym...
I thought pym, beast and stark were all about as smart as each other, just specializing in different areas. Banner is considerably smarter than all of them but focused entirely in gamma radiation research.
Richards is as smart(or not) as the storyline says he is. He's made a lot of boneheaded moves over the years.
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I thought pym, beast and stark were all about as smart as each other, just specializing in different areas. Banner is considerably smarter than all of them but focused entirely in gamma radiation research.
Richards is as smart(or not) as the storyline says he is. He's made a lot of boneheaded moves over the years.
Banner! I forgot about Banner!
In regards to making boneheaded moves. I have a lot of doctors on the in-law side of my family. They are very smart and excel in some of the most difficult fields but they do/think some really stupid things, basic common sense things. I guess that's why Wisdom and Intelligence are separate. ;)
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Yeah, I always figured Richards was the smartest by far. Pym seemed smart but not on the same level. He seemed like he was on the same level as Stark and maybe Beast.It's Marvel's stance.Is it a recent thing? Pym never seemed to get much respect for... what? Decades? Seems like just recently since like Age of Ultron they've tried pushing how important he actually is.
Prior to that? Shrink ray and malfunctioning robot certainly wasn't as impressive Reeds 'Make whatever it is I need for JUST THIS MOMENT!!!' that he could whip up whenever he needed. Anything from dimensional portals to machines to restore Galactus. Knowing the unknowable was always his thing. It's why Doom was so jealous all the time...
Now I kind of want to see Doom go after Pym...
I thought pym, beast and stark were all about as smart as each other, just specializing in different areas. Banner is considerably smarter than all of them but focused entirely in gamma radiation research.
Richards is as smart(or not) as the storyline says he is. He's made a lot of boneheaded moves over the years.
Hehehe yeah... He has a lot of intelligence, but it does seem that he dumped wisdom.
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To be fair though, Eternity was probably suffering from brain damage thank to all those threads of reality getting pulled by the Scarlet Witch.
As for Holt not being interesting, not sure I agree. I mean those T-spheres he built are pretty cool. Just because he's not GOLDEN Age like many JSA-ers, doesn't mean he doesn't belong there. I mean technically Power Girl isn't a Golden Ager.
As for Black Panther...he's not the best scientist but he's far superior to say, Adrian Toomes.
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Captain Marvel!
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The one that matters. Shazam.
Wisdom of Solomon and all that.
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Hey I know I could probably just look stuff up but how did the Dr Doom storyline actually end? I thought it was going well because of an old comic where some spirit animal revealed how Doom is the only one that actually could make world peace. It brought Peter Parker's daughter back and made one more day never happen.
Also, I don't have many comics but based on the old ones I had, what ever happened to The Cadre? I actually really liked those three crazy folks.
There is a Civil War 2? Didn't they learn from the first time just how stupid it was to do that? Wasn't the Civil War just a big argument in the writers room about "Who would win in a fight between X and Y?"
Edit: I tried to get into the Ultimate universe but it was just totally made of stupid and bad. I wanted more 2099.
Alright starting from the top:
When Doctor Doom tried to take over Wakanda (for reasons that I can't remember now), Black Panther TRIED to get the spirit of said Panther God to stand against Doom. He failed because the panther god judged him without fault for believing he was best at saving the world. That wasn't what happened with Secret Wars.
SECRET WARS (2015) is really about a group collective called the Beyonders (yes the Beyonder is related to them but not directly) who decided (for reasons not entirely clear) to destroy the Multiverse using Molecule Man (who had been touched by the Cosmic Cube and forces the Beyonders used to interact with the 'regular' Marvel Universe) by having him and ALL his different versions explode at the same time.
Doom and the Molecule Man of the Marvel Universe (616) opposed them but they ended up helping them because they blew up other version that Molecule Man killed and kept their power.
While this was going on, the Multiverse, due to this fight, started to collapse. This meant other realities colliding into one another and since Earth was the focal point of these 'deaths' it meant one of three things: The destruction of BOTH universes, or the death of one by killing that Earth.
Doom, however, had already been back through time and created his own cult under a different name and identity. He was trying to stop them but he soon found other creatures either in service to the Beyonders or at least opposed to his tactics.
So when the Beyonders FINALLY collapsed everything, Doom was able to take the remainder of Molecule Man's other selves power, destroy the Beyonders and thus become God of a patchwork reality wherein he pulled from fragments of DIFFERENT realities/alternate universes and put them under his thumb.
Do that help?
The one that matters. Shazam.
Wisdom of Solomon and all that.
I still like Carol better in some ways.
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I don't know, he's been pretty bone headed at times over the years. He's also a kid, so...
The poor joke. It crashed and burned. =(
I still like Carol better in some ways.The one that matters. Shazam.
Wisdom of Solomon and all that.
I know nothing about the extended family and successors beyond Billy Batson.