Oh Marvel, you really are terrible now.


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It may be well written but the idea is ridiculous. At least to me.


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More ridiculous than anything else in the Marvel universe?

Sovereign Court

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Delightful wrote:

Just read X-Men vs Inhumans. It's actually pretty decent. The conflict between the two factions actually makes sense, people actually have motivations for their actions, the pacing is good, and everyone seems more or less in character.

So basically eat your heart out Civil War 2.

Good to know not everything done by Marvel sucks horribly these days.

Still, let me know when the good guys stop fighting the good guys. I'm saving my bucks until then! ;)


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I think IVX makes sense because it's either mutants leave earth (something no one here wants), or they die. So it's destroy the cloud, hope for the best and too bad Inhumans!

Also if you want to see good guys fight bad guys, I'd suggest reading more Thor. She's fighting to save the Ten Realms.


So it's been confirmed that Ben Reilly aka original Spider clone, is going to back to his roots of sort. I mean I guess after the whole Clone Conspiracy blows up and he has to get out of dodge because he screwed up being the Jackal and you know, clones.


IVX is doing stupid slightly by putting the Inhumans in Limbo. I mean seriously, they couldn't just make REGULAR jails or something?

The Exchange

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Good to know not everything done by Marvel sucks horribly these days.

Oh, I think that there are quite some enjoyable series. Scarlet Witch, All-new Wolverine, Captain America Sam Wilson, the Vision, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther and Black Widow immediately come to my mind.

Not sure about IvX, though, because I don't like where this is going. At the moment it isn't really good guys vs. good guys, the only good X-man at the moment being old Beast. Charles Xavier's dream sure seems dead, and this time the mutants have noone to blame but themselves.

Sovereign Court

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Mutants suck. At this point I'm rooting for the humans.


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WormysQueue wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Good to know not everything done by Marvel sucks horribly these days.

Oh, I think that there are quite some enjoyable series. Scarlet Witch, All-new Wolverine, Captain America Sam Wilson, the Vision, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther and Black Widow immediately come to my mind.

Not sure about IvX, though, because I don't like where this is going. At the moment it isn't really good guys vs. good guys, the only good X-man at the moment being old Beast. Charles Xavier's dream sure seems dead, and this time the mutants have noone to blame but themselves.

I blame the very nature of superhero comics.

If Xavier's dream were to come true than any kind of large conflict for the X-Men would be no longer possible. No more Sentinels. No more extremist Magneto. No more racial or LGBT allegorical stories. And no more constant threats of mutant genocide.

Utopias tend to be really boring stories, unfortunately.


Delightful wrote:
WormysQueue wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Good to know not everything done by Marvel sucks horribly these days.

Oh, I think that there are quite some enjoyable series. Scarlet Witch, All-new Wolverine, Captain America Sam Wilson, the Vision, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther and Black Widow immediately come to my mind.

Not sure about IvX, though, because I don't like where this is going. At the moment it isn't really good guys vs. good guys, the only good X-man at the moment being old Beast. Charles Xavier's dream sure seems dead, and this time the mutants have noone to blame but themselves.

I blame the very nature of superhero comics.

If Xavier's dream were to come true than any kind of large conflict for the X-Men would be no longer possible. No more Sentinels. No more extremist Magneto. No more racial or LGBT allegorical stories. And no more constant threats of mutant genocide.

Utopias tend to be really boring stories, unfortunately.

They don't have to achieve Xavier's Dream... but they should still be striving for it. And really, peaceful coexistence isn't even on the radar anymore. They've all gone insane and protomilitary revolutionaries.

Dark Archive

Somewhat relevant link to the discussion of Mutants vs Inhumans Also maybe I'm misremembering but dont the inhumans have some sort of robot doom army on the moon or something?

Dark Archive

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Of course most of this is resulting from movie rights and things back firing so a lot of it is going to be a mess.


I'm a little curious WHY they have the rights to the Inhumans in the first place? Most of the time they were Fantastic Four guest stars... they started in Fantastic Four... how were they NOT lumped in with Dr. Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer and Namor?!? Why did Marvel have to negotiate with Fox to use Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver who traditionally Avengers and yet still have full rein with Inhumans?

These rights issues are all over the place.

Dark Archive

phantom1592 wrote:

I'm a little curious WHY they have the rights to the Inhumans in the first place? Most of the time they were Fantastic Four guest stars... they started in Fantastic Four... how were they NOT lumped in with Dr. Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer and Namor?!? Why did Marvel have to negotiate with Fox to use Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver who traditionally Avengers and yet still have full rein with Inhumans?

These rights issues are all over the place.

Long story short from my understanding is that at the time no one really cared for the inhumans (Werent really being used at the time one of thiose groups that fade in and out of prominence if you get my meaning. so they werent in the negotiataions.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Set,

My understanding was that the Inhuman experiments were more about the Kree trying to improve their own genetics rather than see if any super powers from humans appeared.

But yes in some of the Eternal stories, the Celestials DID mess with genetics, but I wasn't aware of mutants being anything other than a by product created when the Celestials created the Deviants along side the newly minted humans and Eternals.

As I recall the standard operating procedure of the Celestials as they applied to Humanity was to create two new branches, an Eternal branch, and a Deviant branch, while leaving the main line unmodified save for adding a potential to mutate. The X-Gene is essentially Deviant-lite whereas the potential of the standard Human line is the occasional tendency to develop super powers in strange extreme situations, such as Bruce Banner and Peter Parker, without posessing the X-Gene.

Add to that, the Kree mucking up the picture by experimenting on another batch of Humans, and creating the InHumans. And other characters such as The Scarlet Witch who posesses both incidental powers of sorcery and a X-Gene derived mutant ability.


Kevin Mack wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:

I'm a little curious WHY they have the rights to the Inhumans in the first place? Most of the time they were Fantastic Four guest stars... they started in Fantastic Four... how were they NOT lumped in with Dr. Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer and Namor?!? Why did Marvel have to negotiate with Fox to use Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver who traditionally Avengers and yet still have full rein with Inhumans?

These rights issues are all over the place.

Long story short from my understanding is that at the time no one really cared for the inhumans (Werent really being used at the time one of thiose groups that fade in and out of prominence if you get my meaning. so they werent in the negotiataions.

Either that or they WERE part of a lump deal with the Fantastic Four, but nobody gave a s~@+ about the Inhumans, they were never used, and the rights defaulted back to Marvel.


Drah,

Thanks!

As for the robot army, I think they were destroyed by the U.S. in Silent War. I could be wrong though.

Also while I get that some might see this as "Inhumans aren't very progressive" they did keep to themselves for long periods of time. Of course it led to this coming around IE Inhumanity and stuff.

As for the rights, I figured the Inhumans weren't in the mix because Fox already HAD mutants. I mean look at how badly Fox has done with just THAT property at times along side FF. It's been...not great to say the least.

Also I agree with Wormy, the new Scarlet Witch comic was quite good. Unfortunately it's not continuing past issue 16 I believe. Same is true for the Vision which had a single run even if Vision (and now his only daughter) are in other book(s).

The Exchange

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Also I agree with Wormy, the new Scarlet Witch comic was quite good. Unfortunately it's not continuing past issue 16 I believe. Same is true for the Vision which had a single run even if Vision (and now his only daughter) are in other book(s).

Unluckily, that seems to be the fate of a lot of comic books I take a particular liking too. But then, with everything resetted every two years, it probably doesn't matter too much. Still that:s why I find it easier to follow writers and artists that I like than single heroes.

And the thing with Xavier's dream is: I could understand that Cyclops developed the way he did, because that was kind of a logical development over several years of X-Men history. But it really broke my heart to see Ororo betray Beast in IvX #1. I already hated that she chose to side with Captain Carol Delusional in CWII, but that scene really felt like a total betrayal to the essence of what is probably my most beloved comic character of all times. And she didn't even do it in a moment's pressure. No, she had been co-planning the coming Blitzkrieg all the time.

So suddenly I find myself hoping that the Inhumans kick the X-Mens' asses.


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Personally I think what Marvel should do with all the mutants they don't own the movie rights to is have them all captured by Mojo...maybe with a humanoid fox like minion...and be forced to be in bad movies. And just leave them there....


John,

They already do that. It's called Mojoverse.

Wormy,

Not sure I felt that way but then again Storm isn't my favorite. Kitty is. Followed probably by Rachel Gray.


phantom1592 wrote:
Delightful wrote:
WormysQueue wrote:
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Good to know not everything done by Marvel sucks horribly these days.

Oh, I think that there are quite some enjoyable series. Scarlet Witch, All-new Wolverine, Captain America Sam Wilson, the Vision, Ms. Marvel, Black Panther and Black Widow immediately come to my mind.

Not sure about IvX, though, because I don't like where this is going. At the moment it isn't really good guys vs. good guys, the only good X-man at the moment being old Beast. Charles Xavier's dream sure seems dead, and this time the mutants have noone to blame but themselves.

I blame the very nature of superhero comics.

If Xavier's dream were to come true than any kind of large conflict for the X-Men would be no longer possible. No more Sentinels. No more extremist Magneto. No more racial or LGBT allegorical stories. And no more constant threats of mutant genocide.

Utopias tend to be really boring stories, unfortunately.

They don't have to achieve Xavier's Dream... but they should still be striving for it.

that gets old really really fast.

The Exchange

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Freehold DM wrote:
that gets old really really fast.

Hm. Given the state of the real world, I think that topic is as hot as it has ever been, so I think there's still a lot of stories to tell with it.


WormysQueue wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
that gets old really really fast.
Hm. Given the state of the real world, I think that topic is as hot as it has ever been, so I think there's still a lot of stories to tell with it.

True, but that could easily feel like a a retread of themes and stories that the X-Men have already explored heavily and much better.

Plus I could see a lot of writers being way too on the nose and one-dimensional about current social issues. Look no further than Civil War 2 and its cringey critique of policing as an example.


I used to follow the X-men, but haven't for years. From what people are saying it sound like Magneto's dream rather than Xavier's is the one that won out.


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GreyWolfLord wrote:
I used to follow the X-men, but haven't for years. From what people are saying it sound like Magneto's dream rather than Xavier's is the one that won out.

If Xavier's dream had won out... the comic would be over. That's the thing about happy endings... They're endings.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:
I used to follow the X-men, but haven't for years. From what people are saying it sound like Magneto's dream rather than Xavier's is the one that won out.
If Xavier's dream had won out... the comic would be over. That's the thing about happy endings... They're endings.

Which is why superhero universes are really depressing and nihilistic.

Doesn't matter how many times the Joker is thrown in jail by Batman because he'll always escape from Arkham again and kill more people.

Doesn't matter how many times the multiverse is saved because some other crisis will occur and f!&# everything on a cosmic scale.

And it doesn't matter how many times the X-Men save the planet because someone will try to genocide them all.

But, hey, usually the stories are good and I can ignore that. Unfortunately mainstream comics these days are kind of bad so that feeling of redundancy and pointless is even more noticeable.

The Exchange

Delightful wrote:
Plus I could see a lot of writers being way too on the nose and one-dimensional about current social issues. Look no further than Civil War 2 and its cringey critique of policing as an example.

Well, yeah, but that's true no matter the topic they tackle. In fact, and contrary to what I said about IvX before, I generally like Lemire's writing and I also enjoy what Cullen Bunn does with the Uncanny X-Men title, so I don't think they would be unable to do this better than Bendis did with CW II.

Though I sometimes suspect that often it isn't so much the writer's guilt than the publisher's pressure to do things in a certain way.
I mean, Bendis has already proven that he can write brilliant stuff and then he suddenly starts to suck big time with the Marvel titles while simultaneously collaborating with Maleev on "Scarlet" which I think is nothing but impressive work? Makes me often think about that it has probably more to do with how Marvel wants to handle their premium titles, that not allows the artists to be at their most creative best.

Though I'm not sure if they are even aware of it, because Slott/Spider-Man or the Hickman/Avengers run are and were great. So they are not consistent with this behaviour. ^^


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Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:
I used to follow the X-men, but haven't for years. From what people are saying it sound like Magneto's dream rather than Xavier's is the one that won out.
If Xavier's dream had won out... the comic would be over. That's the thing about happy endings... They're endings.

Mutants living in peace with humans doesn't end the X-Men though. It is a happy ending to a single (if major) facet of their stories.

There are still likely to be lingering threats regardless ("peace" does not mean utopia, not everyone is going to want peace), and the usual threats to the world and smaller parts of it are still going to occur.

The persecution of the X-Men hasn't made sense for a long, long time. All of the other super power origins are accepted pretty broadly.


Sundakan wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:
I used to follow the X-men, but haven't for years. From what people are saying it sound like Magneto's dream rather than Xavier's is the one that won out.
If Xavier's dream had won out... the comic would be over. That's the thing about happy endings... They're endings.

Mutants living in peace with humans doesn't end the X-Men though. It is a happy ending to a single (if major) facet of their stories.

There are still likely to be lingering threats regardless ("peace" does not mean utopia, not everyone is going to want peace), and the usual threats to the world and smaller parts of it are still going to occur.

The persecution of the X-Men hasn't made sense for a long, long time. All of the other super power origins are accepted pretty broadly.

But it takes away the basis of the X-Men being different. They're just another Avengers, if that happens.

Looked at strictly like that, the persecution of mutants never made sense. Even back in the 60s when it started, plenty of other super-heroes with many different origins were popular and accepted. Why were mutants any different.

On another level though it makes perfect sense. The whole point is that prejudice doesn't make sense. It isn't rational. It's still real and dangerous.


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Prejudice isn't rational but it usually has a rational seed. The basis for racism and sexism is that they are inherently inferior to another race or sex. Where this notion comes from is unclear, but it's built around that nugget and all the internal logic springs from there. "They are inferior, therefore they should be mistreated, therefore it is distressing if they fight back, therefore they must be 'taught their place', etc.".

The nugget racism against mutants is built around is "They are different, they are powerful, they should be feared, we should lock them up for our safety".

Problem there is it's ONLY mutants that prejudice is against, not "mutates" or aliens or dudes with powered armor. Except that one time they were, it was a big deal, and now it's not.

The other nugget is "They will replace humanity, they're going to slowly kill off us normal people" (like those crackpot "white genocide" people think about intermingling of races). Problem is, Inhumans are basically the same thing with a different method...except they're ALSO not prejudiced against apparently.

Liberty's Edge

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Sundakan wrote:


Problem there is it's ONLY mutants that prejudice is against, not "mutates" or aliens or dudes with powered armor. Except that one time they were, it was a big deal, and now it's not.

Mutants and only mutants facing prejudice makes sense if say 80-90% of humanity has no superpowers of any kind with 10-20% being mutants. In a world where 50%+ seems to have some kind of superpower or have the technology means to build and acquire them it makes no sense imo. The 10-12 ft tall orange talking rock (The Thing) gets a almost free pass on prejudice because he and the rest of the FF received their powers from cosmic radiation. If anything with the event that start the first Civil War. Their should have been a huge backlash against anyone and everyone with a superpower mutant and non-mutant. Instead mutants and only mutants get the short end of the stick. Asgardian and Skrull invading it's okay they can get a free pass on prejudice because one is alien the other magical.

It matters not the devastation both are responsible for. Damn those mutants and only them for being different and possible being the next step in human evolution. With so many people being different from the norm and nod not just mutants. With racism being so rarely selective the constant hatred on mutants by the writers not only make no sense. It's a obvious, clumsy, heavy handed, boring, stale, rehashed attempt at them using the racism card in the X-men. Don't get me started on the average person causal acceptance of giant killer anti-mutant robots casually going through their neighbourhoods. Ripping apart peoples homes and families. But hey it's okay because damn those mutants and only them for being different and possible being the next step in human evolution. Yeah I used to be a fan of anti-mutant part of the X-men not so much anymore as it never develops beyond humanity blaming mutants and only them for the worlds problems over and over.

Before anyone says it. Sure some characters face fear and prejudice other than mutants. Comparing to what the X-men go through it's not even remotely the same. Not by a long shot.


memorax wrote:
Sundakan wrote:


Problem there is it's ONLY mutants that prejudice is against, not "mutates" or aliens or dudes with powered armor. Except that one time they were, it was a big deal, and now it's not.
Mutants and only mutants facing prejudice makes sense if say 80-90% of humanity has no superpowers of any kind with 10-20% being mutants. In a world where 50%+ seems to have some kind of superpower or have the technology means to build and acquire them it makes no sense imo.

Even in the Marvel Universe, I'd guess even 10-20% is very high. Maybe if you count all the mutants with very minor mutations who wouldn't ever become superheroes - they've occasionally been brought up, but mostly ignored.

It seems like more because that's who all the superhero comics focus on, for obvious reasons, but actual super-powered (even with technology) people really are a tiny minority.


Jeff is correct, most of the Marvel Earth 616 isn't filled with everyone having super powers (Think of the wide scale destruction THAT alone would cause.)

I think 10-20% is probably about right. Also the fact is while the universe MIGHT seem nihilistic, it's not yet ruled by Thanos. Trust me, he's the guy for that kind of universe.


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Honestly with superscience guys like Mister Fantastic, Tony Stark and Hank Pym, and the fact that planet is constantly getting attacked by aliens, demons or cosmic deities, you'd figure their would be a mass market for artificial means of super empowerment. But than again status quo is God and the world organically changing because the objective existence of ancient gods, aliens and artificial AI is not allowed in mainstream superhero universes.

A shame really.


Delightful,

Not everyone is ready to be god.


Delightful wrote:

Honestly with superscience guys like Mister Fantastic, Tony Stark and Hank Pym, and the fact that planet is constantly getting attacked by aliens, demons or cosmic deities, you'd figure their would be a mass market for artificial means of super empowerment. But than again status quo is God and the world organically changing because the objective existence of ancient gods, aliens and artificial AI is not allowed in mainstream superhero universes.

A shame really.

Possibly the superscience guys are smart enough not to hand out superpowers wholesale.

But more accurately, it's more a matter of keeping the world basically recognizable as the real world + supers. Especially useful for the more street level heroes.


thejeff wrote:
But more accurately, it's more a matter of keeping the world basically recognizable as the real world + supers. Especially useful for the more street level heroes.

Yeah, I get that, but I've always found that to be a ridiculous facet of superhero universes. Thor and the Kree revealing themselves up should radically change the world in a meaningful way or why even have them their first place.

It would be like an author introducing the existence of magic in their work and yet still have their wider world be almost completely unaffected.


Delightful,

You obviously didn't see FR when guns came along huh?


Thomas Seitz wrote:

John,

They already do that. It's called Mojoverse.

I think my comment went over your head.


Delightful wrote:
thejeff wrote:
But more accurately, it's more a matter of keeping the world basically recognizable as the real world + supers. Especially useful for the more street level heroes.

Yeah, I get that, but I've always found that to be a ridiculous facet of superhero universes. Thor and the Kree revealing themselves up should radically change the world in a meaningful way or why even have them their first place.

It would be like an author introducing the existence of magic in their work and yet still have their wider world be almost completely unaffected.

You mean like most fantasy & especially fantasy RPG settings?


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Thomas Seitz wrote:
Jaçinto wrote:

Hey I know I could probably just look stuff up but how did the Dr Doom storyline actually end? I thought it was going well because of an old comic where some spirit animal revealed how Doom is the only one that actually could make world peace. It brought Peter Parker's daughter back and made one more day never happen.

Also, I don't have many comics but based on the old ones I had, what ever happened to The Cadre? I actually really liked those three crazy folks.

There is a Civil War 2? Didn't they learn from the first time just how stupid it was to do that? Wasn't the Civil War just a big argument in the writers room about "Who would win in a fight between X and Y?"

Edit: I tried to get into the Ultimate universe but it was just totally made of stupid and bad. I wanted more 2099.

Alright starting from the top:

When Doctor Doom tried to take over Wakanda (for reasons that I can't remember now), Black Panther TRIED to get the spirit of said Panther God to stand against Doom. He failed because the panther god judged him without fault for believing he was best at saving the world. That wasn't what happened with Secret Wars.

SECRET WARS (2015) is really about a group collective called the Beyonders (yes the Beyonder is related to them but not directly) who decided (for reasons not entirely clear) to destroy the Multiverse using Molecule Man (who had been touched by the Cosmic Cube and forces the Beyonders used to interact with the 'regular' Marvel Universe) by having him and ALL his different versions explode at the same time.

Doom and the Molecule Man of the Marvel Universe (616) opposed them but they ended up helping them because they blew up other version that Molecule Man killed and kept their power.

While this was going on, the Multiverse, due to this fight, started to collapse. This meant other realities colliding into one another and since Earth was the focal point of these 'deaths' it meant one of three things: The destruction of BOTH universes,...

Not exactly what happened:

The Beyonders (also known as the Ivory Kings) are one faction of supremely powerful beings existing outside the multiverse (this place is the source of power for cosmic cubes). They were invented BEFORE the first Secret Wars (Marvel Two-In-One #63) and at the time they were introduced they collected planets. These beings together were more powerful than even the astract powers of the Multiverse (3 of them took down the Living Tribunal which is the right hand servant of the one above all...). This race likes to experiment with the multiverse and their latests experiment was meant to erase all of it. They planted several "bombs" one for each realty of the multiverse and prepared to have them detonate at the exact same time destroying everything in one big giant explosion. These "bombs" were molecule men.
After a series of events too long to explain here Doctor Doom became aware of the Beyonders and their plan. He also discovered their one weakness: Beyonders are linear beings and cannot travel back in time. In the MArvel's Universe Doom is the inventor of the first time machine though, so he went back in time and with the help of the molecule man of the 616 universe he started twarting the beyonders plan. The only way do do so was to kill (or remove) the molecule man before the the time set for detonation. This would have caused the final explosion to decrease of potency, get rid of enough molecule men and a part of the multiverse could be saved.
Unfortunately killing a molecule man before its time caused something else, a phenomenon known as "Incursion". Two earths ( where MM were placed) collided causing their realities to crash upon themselves erasing both. This could be avoided if one of the two earths was destroyed before the collision.
To make things even more complex there were several types of incursions: blue ones happened when the collsion was between an earth and a dead earth and were prompted by the Mapmakers interference (in these cases the planet had died as a result of the early death of its MM... the Mapmakers were superadaptoids subverted by the Beyonders and used to track down the actions of Rabum Alal and its cult of Black Swans).
Other incursions events were the ones caused by the Black Priests, the multiverse's antibodies formed by sentient magic to try to prevent the death of everything by destroying enough earths (since earths were always the place of incursions).
Then there was Rabum Alal. The "Great Destroyer" was the identity Doctor Doom assumed when he formed the cult of the Black Swans. By killing (or capturing) a MM an earth was destroyed and its reality too. Alone Doom could do this only in a handful of realities even while travelling back in time. He needed help and his answer was forming his cult, which also allowed him to increase his personal power by using his followers' faith (in the Marvel's universe gods are created by people's faith and there are beings like the Magus able to harvest it). With their help he was able to cull the number of MM substantially in the end reducing the number of surviving realities to an handful.
This prompted the final confrontation between Doom, Doctor Strange, the Molecule Man of 616 universe against the Beyonders while the final incursion (regular Marvel Universe vs the Ultimate Universe) was underway. The Beyonders were more powerful than their opponents but Doom had a plan. He unleashed the millions of Molecule Men his cult had captured on the beyonders making them explode in their face. An explosion capable of destroying the multiverse happening outside of it. This apparently erased the beyonders but left very little of the multiverse, only a few scraps Doom had managed of salvaging from the different realities he had grasped during the incursions. Now wielding the infinite power of the beyonders (thanks to the Molecule Man of 616 who had become the focus for it) Doom remade earth (battleworld) out of those scraps and ruled it for 8 years as its god emperor. It was much more limited than what was before, but it was what was possible for Doom to create because of his own personal flaws. After that period of time the "rafts" with the Illuminati and the Cabal were found and Secret Wars happened.

Basically Doom managed to save the multiverse and defeat the Beyonders because he played "not to lose". The illuminati played "to win" but lost everything in the process.

Scarab Sages

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Delightful wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:
I used to follow the X-men, but haven't for years. From what people are saying it sound like Magneto's dream rather than Xavier's is the one that won out.
If Xavier's dream had won out... the comic would be over. That's the thing about happy endings... They're endings.

Which is why superhero universes are really depressing and nihilistic.

Doesn't matter how many times the Joker is thrown in jail by Batman because he'll always escape from Arkham again and kill more people.

Doesn't matter how many times the multiverse is saved because some other crisis will occur and f@&& everything on a cosmic scale.

And it doesn't matter how many times the X-Men save the planet because someone will try to genocide them all.

But, hey, usually the stories are good and I can ignore that. Unfortunately mainstream comics these days are kind of bad so that feeling of redundancy and pointless is even more noticeable.

"No matter how many times you save the world, it always manages to get back in jeopardy again. Sometimes I just want it to stay saved! You know, for a little bit? I feel like the maid; I just cleaned up this mess! Can we keep it clean for... for ten minutes!"


thejeff wrote:
Delightful wrote:
thejeff wrote:
But more accurately, it's more a matter of keeping the world basically recognizable as the real world + supers. Especially useful for the more street level heroes.

Yeah, I get that, but I've always found that to be a ridiculous facet of superhero universes. Thor and the Kree revealing themselves up should radically change the world in a meaningful way or why even have them their first place.

It would be like an author introducing the existence of magic in their work and yet still have their wider world be almost completely unaffected.

You mean like most fantasy & especially fantasy RPG settings?

Those annoy me as well.


John Kretzer wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

John,

They already do that. It's called Mojoverse.

I think my comment went over your head.

It wouldn't be the first time John.


So Marvel's latest ploy Monsters Unleashed just...unleashed. I dunno how I feel about it since there's no Godzilla and Fin Fang Foom only showed up for one panel.

I am glad to see Elsa back though. She's pretty kick ass.


So new descriptions seem to showcase the fact the Captain America will in fact either kill or incapacitate the Red Skull.

Not sure if that means he'll run Hydra but I guess we'll find out.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

So new descriptions seem to showcase the fact the Captain America will in fact either kill or incapacitate the Red Skull.

Not sure if that means he'll run Hydra but I guess we'll find out.

The Hydra this version of Cap (the one in which Kobik altered reality turing Steve Rogers into someone who has always been an agent of Hydra) is trying to recreate Hydra as "the Spear", "the Shield" (it's not S.H.I.E.L.D.) sister organization.

It's connected to Hickman's "Shield" series (the second one still needs an ending...), basically "the Spear" was not an evil organization, it was complementary to "the Shield" in defending earth from various menaces during the planet's history. The spear was subverted before WWII and became Hydra embracing nazi ideals.


Rogar,

Not sure that's 100% true but we'll see if that's correct when the grand Marvel Event shows up later this summer.


As for the whole Beyonders thing, someone summed it up well for me: "It's great that Hickman is finally getting to use his notes for that Spelljammer campaign his friends in highschool didn't want to play."

(It's not every day you get to see the universe destroyed by LITERAL Writer Fiat.)


I don't know about that, but it was still a great series. Would have made a really lousy campaign, I'd say - too much party infighting.

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