Grey Lensman |
Thomas Seitz wrote:Who the heck is Tyke, Grey?!?The Teen Cyclops, I assume.
This - most of the time-lost original X-Men get some kind of nickname that combined teen with their name.
Tyke - Teen Cyclops
Jeen - Teen Jean Grey
Tank - Teen Hank McCoy (Beast)
and the odd two
Iceboi - Teen Iceman
And Warren/Angel didn't get a nickname since his brainwiped older self got one instead (nuAngel).
You spend too much time on other boards and the names just come to mind instantly without any thought as to whether or not anyone elsewhere even has the point of reference to get it.
Grey Lensman |
Ah! Thank you Jeff and Grey for the clarification.
I think they went with Iceboi since this one is gay and the other one is SO deep in the closet, Not even the Eye of Agamotto can find it.
Well, Iceboi was being used before Jeen threw him out of the closet, but people have been making 'Iceman is gay' jokes for years. Even the Family Guy did it.
GreenDragon1133 |
Ah! Thank you Jeff and Grey for the clarification.
I think they went with Iceboi since this one is gay and the other one is SO deep in the closet, Not even the Eye of Agamotto can find it.
You mean, since the older version of the character is straight and has dated almost as many women as Worthington III?
thejeff |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thomas Seitz wrote:You mean, since the older version of the character is straight and has dated almost as many women as Worthington III?Ah! Thank you Jeff and Grey for the clarification.
I think they went with Iceboi since this one is gay and the other one is SO deep in the closet, Not even the Eye of Agamotto can find it.
Well, officially he's not. They confronted each other over it in the last issue of Uncanny before Secret Wars and he basically admitted he's been closeted the whole time.
It's obviously a retcon. Certainly not originally intended for the character and probably not until this series. I'm not sure why "Iceman is gay" jokes have been a thing, unless it's been his generally lousy luck with women. He's dated plenty, but unlike Warren, few of them have lasted long. Still, I'm not really fond of the theory that "not good with women == closeted gay".
Grey Lensman |
GreenDragon1133 wrote:Thomas Seitz wrote:You mean, since the older version of the character is straight and has dated almost as many women as Worthington III?Ah! Thank you Jeff and Grey for the clarification.
I think they went with Iceboi since this one is gay and the other one is SO deep in the closet, Not even the Eye of Agamotto can find it.
Well, officially he's not. They confronted each other over it in the last issue of Uncanny before Secret Wars and he basically admitted he's been closeted the whole time.
It's obviously a retcon. Certainly not originally intended for the character and probably not until this series. I'm not sure why "Iceman is gay" jokes have been a thing, unless it's been his generally lousy luck with women. He's dated plenty, but unlike Warren, few of them have lasted long. Still, I'm not really fond of the theory that "not good with women == closeted gay".
Of course it's a retcon - no character, ok, no heroic character created in the 1960's would be openly gay in mainstream comics. But the undercurrents for Bobby have been circulating for a little while at least - Marjorie Liu wrote the last big Iceman-centric story, (the one where he nearly freezes the world due to Death Seed influence, and nearly every former girlfriend he ever had shows up) and Liu has stated in interviews she specifically wrote him as someone deeply closeted.
thejeff |
thejeff wrote:Of course it's a retcon - no character, ok, no heroic character created in the 1960's would be openly gay in mainstream comics. But the undercurrents for Bobby have been circulating for a little while at least - Marjorie Liu wrote the last big Iceman-centric story, (the one where he nearly freezes the world due to Death Seed influence, and nearly every former girlfriend he ever had shows up) and Liu has stated in interviews she specifically wrote him as someone deeply closeted.GreenDragon1133 wrote:Thomas Seitz wrote:You mean, since the older version of the character is straight and has dated almost as many women as Worthington III?Ah! Thank you Jeff and Grey for the clarification.
I think they went with Iceboi since this one is gay and the other one is SO deep in the closet, Not even the Eye of Agamotto can find it.
Well, officially he's not. They confronted each other over it in the last issue of Uncanny before Secret Wars and he basically admitted he's been closeted the whole time.
It's obviously a retcon. Certainly not originally intended for the character and probably not until this series. I'm not sure why "Iceman is gay" jokes have been a thing, unless it's been his generally lousy luck with women. He's dated plenty, but unlike Warren, few of them have lasted long. Still, I'm not really fond of the theory that "not good with women == closeted gay".
Not even "openly gay", but not even closeted. Or in subtext. Up until Northstar, really.
But yeah, I was thinking about the decades of continuity and relationships before then. I can see it having been hinted at over the last few years.I'm still not really sure where the Iceman is closeted theory came from originally.
Greylurker |
Sounds kind of like Obsidian over at DC. Guy had an absolutely lousy track record with women, several bouts of "turned evil" lot of fan gossip about his being gay.
when DC finally uncloseted him there wasa large portion of the readers that just said "about time he came out"
and the character honestly seemed happy and well adjusted after that point. We even had some scenes of the future where he and his boyfriend were happy, married and had adopted.
and then DC erased his very existance when they rebooted to New52
Grey Lensman |
Sounds kind of like Obsidian over at DC. Guy had an absolutely lousy track record with women, several bouts of "turned evil" lot of fan gossip about his being gay.
when DC finally uncloseted him there wasa large portion of the readers that just said "about time he came out"
and the character honestly seemed happy and well adjusted after that point. We even had some scenes of the future where he and his boyfriend were happy, married and had adopted.
and then DC erased his very existance when they rebooted to New52
That was one change I really didn't like. They changed Alan Scott simply because they felt they needed to replace someone they retgoned (as opposed to...um...not eliminating someone entirely), and lost Alan's take on things - he had trouble accepting it (by his own admission) but wanted his son to have any happiness that he could. The take of someone who would otherwise have been anti-lgbt but was changing his mind due to someone close to him coming out was lost, and that's a shame IMO.
It also (to me, anyways) smacked of them changing the 'Earth 2' version so they could claim progress by doing it, but please don't notice him being shoved into perhaps the most irrelevant corner we can find.
thejeff |
Greylurker wrote:Sounds kind of like Obsidian over at DC. Guy had an absolutely lousy track record with women, several bouts of "turned evil" lot of fan gossip about his being gay.
when DC finally uncloseted him there wasa large portion of the readers that just said "about time he came out"
and the character honestly seemed happy and well adjusted after that point. We even had some scenes of the future where he and his boyfriend were happy, married and had adopted.
and then DC erased his very existance when they rebooted to New52
That was one change I really didn't like. They changed Alan Scott simply because they felt they needed to replace someone they retgoned (as opposed to...um...not eliminating someone entirely), and lost Alan's take on things - he had trouble accepting it (by his own admission) but wanted his son to have any happiness that he could. The take of someone who would otherwise have been anti-lgbt but was changing his mind due to someone close to him coming out was lost, and that's a shame IMO.
It also (to me, anyways) smacked of them changing the 'Earth 2' version so they could claim progress by doing it, but please don't notice him being shoved into perhaps the most irrelevant corner we can find.
In fairness, they'd already changed Alan Scott beyond recognition with the reboot of Earth 2, so it's essentially an entirely new character with the same name and similar powers. Even if they hadn't made him gay, they still wouldn't have had Obsidian (or Jade).
MannyGoblin |
As I remember, another problem with Ice Man coming out is Jean Grey. Her incarnation then had no problems whatsoever with telepathically getting into people's heads and finding their secrets and even outright manipulated her teammates with her powers. When called on this, she just shrugged and said 'I'm a telepath, that is what I do.'
So she went into Iceman's head and found out he was gay and with a combo of telepathic and other manipulations made him admit he was gay.
Greylurker |
As I remember, another problem with Ice Man coming out is Jean Grey. Her incarnation then had no problems whatsoever with telepathically getting into people's heads and finding their secrets and even outright manipulated her teammates with her powers. When called on this, she just shrugged and said 'I'm a telepath, that is what I do.'
So she went into Iceman's head and found out he was gay and with a combo of telepathic and other manipulations made him admit he was gay.
I read that issue and the whole thing was just wierd. Depending on how you interprit those scenes you could almost say she decided for him that he was gay.
I know that is probably not the intent of the writters but Jean at that point had already shown she would mind control one of her "friends" to get the results she wanted by slapping down Angel when he wanted to go back to the past.
They way it was done, it was like "Iceman I'm sick of your sexist comments, so you're gay now."
"What why?"
"you just are"
"Can't I be Bi"
"No"
thejeff |
MannyGoblin wrote:As I remember, another problem with Ice Man coming out is Jean Grey. Her incarnation then had no problems whatsoever with telepathically getting into people's heads and finding their secrets and even outright manipulated her teammates with her powers. When called on this, she just shrugged and said 'I'm a telepath, that is what I do.'
So she went into Iceman's head and found out he was gay and with a combo of telepathic and other manipulations made him admit he was gay.
I read that issue and the whole thing was just wierd. Depending on how you interprit those scenes you could almost say she decided for him that he was gay.
I know that is probably not the intent of the writters but Jean at that point had already shown she would mind control one of her "friends" to get the results she wanted by slapping down Angel when he wanted to go back to the past.
They way it was done, it was like "Iceman I'm sick of your sexist comments, so you're gay now."
"What why?"
"you just are"
"Can't I be Bi"
"No"
Not at all how I read it. And given the later discussion with the older Iceman, not at all how it was intended.
She read his mind - unintentionally, IIRC, since she's still learning control of her telepathy - and found out he was gay. Then confronted him and talked him into admitting it.Definitely problematic use of her powers, but that's been part of teen Jean's character all along. Possibly linked to why Prof X kept her telepathy locked down much longer in her original timeline.
thejeff |
Iceman's preferences are none of Jean's business. He doesn't have to come out or reveal or start going out to bars just on her say so. Confronting him because he kept quiet about it? None of her business.
Agreed. She was definitely out of line. Part of her characterization at the time - one of many things she did that weren't cool.
OTOH, she didn't out him to anyone else or make him start going to bars or anything. She did at least keep the confrontation between themselves.
And later his older self, but damned if I know what the proper ethics of dealing with that are.
memorax |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's interesting how some who like that Iceman is gay react to those who say it's a retcon. One cannot even say it's a retcon or that it was handled poorly. Anyone can see it was a retcon. But if you dislike or disagree with the change your homophobic. Made worse when they say"but it's a proactive retcon and he was always meant to be gay". Show me where in the comics and I will agree. Otherwise it's like Cap being a Hydra agent. Another retcon and even if Marvel says he was always supposed to be almost no one fell for it imo. Heaven forbid any character be bisexual in the Marvel universe. Their either straight or gay. Nothing in between. With Mystique being the only exception.
That being said I still prefer Marvel to DC.
thejeff |
It's interesting how some who like that Iceman is gay react to those who say it's a retcon. One cannot even say it's a retcon or that it was handled poorly. Anyone can see it was a retcon. But if you dislike or disagree with the change your homophobic. Made worse when they say"but it's a proactive retcon and he was always meant to be gay". Show me where in the comics and I will agree. Otherwise it's like Cap being a Hydra agent. Another retcon and even if Marvel says he was always supposed to be almost no one fell for it imo. Heaven forbid any character be bisexual in the Marvel universe. Their either straight or gay. Nothing in between. With Mystique being the only exception.
That being said I still prefer Marvel to DC.
Well, whatever's going on out in the wider internet world, I haven't seen any accusations of homophobia here.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "proactive retcon", but Bobby is meant to have always been gay, just closeted. Obviously this wasn't intended by Lee & Kirby back in the 60s or pretty much at any time up until the very recent past. Completely unlike Hydra-Cap, since that, once we found out what was actually going on, was a Cube-imposed change to the character, not retroactively in continuity all along.
A bi character or two would be cool. There are a couple more floating around out there, but they're all pretty minor. I can see why they didn't take that road with Iceman though.
Grey Lensman |
It's interesting how some who like that Iceman is gay react to those who say it's a retcon. One cannot even say it's a retcon or that it was handled poorly. Anyone can see it was a retcon. But if you dislike or disagree with the change your homophobic. Made worse when they say"but it's a proactive retcon and he was always meant to be gay". Show me where in the comics and I will agree. Otherwise it's like Cap being a Hydra agent. Another retcon and even if Marvel says he was always supposed to be almost no one fell for it imo. Heaven forbid any character be bisexual in the Marvel universe. Their either straight or gay. Nothing in between. With Mystique being the only exception.
That being said I still prefer Marvel to DC.
I think America Chavez is Bi - but other than her, anyone else who is is a villain or very dark antihero at best.
Grey Lensman |
Psylocke's been established as bisexual fairly recently.
Shatterstar was, not that I've seen anything with him in it for awhile.
There may be other.Apparently bisexual invisibility is a meta-superpower. :)
Psylocke might be a bit iffy - her one (so far) female relationship was a female version of a previous (recently deceased) male lover. One of those things that can only happen in works of fiction. I'd have to see her with another woman past the weird special case to be sold on it. (If a male Jean Grey showed up and Cyclops and Wolverine were still after the relationship I'd be doubtful as well - Scott especially is an easy case for being Jean-sexual more than anything else)
With Shatterstar I'm not sure of it's bisexual or merely coming out, but I haven't been reading up on him either.
Aberzombie |
Gay/straight/bi....meh. I could give two craps less which x-dude is sleeping with whom. For me, the x-titles went south a long time ago. Sad, because I use to love all things X.
I think the problem for me was similar to why I finally gave up on Bat titles and (later) Green Lantern - too many books, all heavily inter-related, with endless cross-overs and multipart stories (many of which sucked big hairy goat balls).
Edit: Granted, I did start collecting Detective and Nightwing again with rebirth, but I'm not so sure I'll keep them up for very long.
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
Post Flashpoint Alan Scott bothered me because, if I am remembering an interview correctly, he was made gay because Obsidian was retgoned.
(Amusing aside, my spell check tried to correct 'retgone' to 'retained' how ironic)
So the reason Robinson made the character choice was bean counting. Feh.
I would have been more interested if iceboi was gay as iceman wasn't. Having more and more studies about sexuality as saying it isn't always fixed...That would have been interesting.
Bisexual characters I know of..
Thomas Blake. Knockout. Jeanette (Secret Six) Constantine all from D.C..
Prodigy, Mystique. Moondragon (Marvel)
There wss/is and alternate earth Wolverine/Hercules pairing, so Logan experimenting would make sense.
(For that matter, Laura/Wolverine's sexuality is an interesting topic, given she is a clone of Logan and is dating Angel, Who Logan never liked)
Unfortunately the couple I was/am most interested in is off the radar. North star and his husband haven't been seen in a while, and I liked the "normal spouse and super spouse" dynamic. One thing I liked about the Outback X-Men was Maddie pulling her own weight.
Edit: I don't include Shatterstar and Rictor, because of the Jack/Ianto parallels PAD was intending. Shatterstar would shag Groot or Rocket if offered the chance, and Ric might be "Gay now" or like Ianto just attracted to Shatterstar.
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
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I think the problem for me was similar to why I finally gave up on Bat titles and (later) Green Lantern - too many books, all heavily inter-related, with endless cross-overs and multipart stories (many of which sucked big hairy goat balls).
It reminds me why I liked Bryan Q. Miller's Batgirl. Stephanie was fun as batgirl not moody like the batkin. I like Nightwing for the humor and I'm a wingnut from the 90's.
thejeff |
I would have been more interested if iceboi was gay as iceman wasn't. Having more and more studies about sexuality as saying it isn't always fixed...That would have been interesting.
I guess. Though it would have been confusing. Did iceboi only become gay in the couple of weeks/months since he came to the future? Was iceman gay in the past but became straight at some point - all without it ever being mentioned?
I'm not too fond of retconning character's sexuality, but I thought this was done pretty well. I liked the "Isn't it enough that I have to be hated for being a mutant, do I have to be hated for being gay too?" angle.
Hitdice |
Just curious, but are we going to keep talking about sexuality of fictional characters? Or we talking about Marvel in general?
I just like to know beforehand.
Dude, I just wrote a long, long post about Swamp Thing and Abby (Same sex relationship? Swamp Thing wasn't even a mammal at that point!) but cancelled it when I realized it was DC, not Marvel. I miss the multi-isssue/series character development arcs I used to stumble across in comics. When I was reading the comic in which Northstar came out in battle with an AIDS crisis motivated super villain, I flashed back to every single issue of Alpha Flight I have ever read and, as straight guy, was all, "Surprising? Actually it explains a lot."
I have no problem with Phoenix making Iceman reconcile his own homosexuality by means of telepathic surgery, it just sounds more like the beginning of a Dark Phoenix reboot than a story of Iceman's self actualization, you know?
thejeff |
Telepathic surgery is rape.
Depends on the circumstances. Could be consensual. Probably be awesome for psychiatry.
That's beside the point though: I reread that sequence just a little while back and there's no telepathic surgery involved. Certainly not explicitly and I don't even think it was implied.
She certainly read his mind, though it could be argued she didn't have the control to keep from doing so. She badgered him into admitting it verbally. Not at all cool, but not telepathic surgery.
Set |
All I know is this: MU better be standing for Mutant Universe...
Would you want mutants spun off into their own separate continuity / universe, if that's what 'Mutant Universe' ends up meaning? I've heard arguments for and against that notion, and don't feel particularly strongly either way (although I'd prefer not, since alternate universes, like the Ultimates universe, tend to become dystopian crapfests full of dead characters pretty quick).
Marvel Universe, Mutant University, Magneto Unleashed. I've heard quite a few options for 'MU.'
Thomas Seitz |
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Set,
I'm thinking it might just be like they're on an earth without Terrigen Clouds and possibly no Inhumans. Whether or not that will become an Ultimate Universe...no clue.
Hitdice,
I was asking because it seemed like that was the level of the discussion. However in retrospect it might have been a poor choice of words on my part.
Mostly I wanted to focus on what the ramifications (if any) would be from Civil War II based on what we know so far. Which I admit, is very little other than "Tony Stark stops being Iron man." and "Three of the youngest Avengers quit." I'd also like to know since HydraCap plays a role, if that means we'll see a new kind of HYDRA in terms of Cap secretly leading that while at the same time still maintaining his "heroic" ideal. Also how it might adversely affect Sam Wilson, who is now currently fighting the THIRD man to be Captain America, (in my mind at least), John Walker aka US Agent. Then there's the matter of Bucky and the sentient cosmic cube Kubic. So...yeah I have a lot to wonder about.
This is also not mentioning the return of the Clone Saga in some form, Thor Odinson MAYBE getting closer to being worthy, and the fact Jane Foster isn't much longer for this world I'd imagine. (Cancer, not writing.)
Matthew Morris RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Dude, I just wrote a long, long post about Swamp Thing and Abby (Same sex relationship? Swamp Thing wasn't even a mammal at that point!) but cancelled it when I realized it was DC, not Marvel. I miss the multi-isssue/series character development arcs I used to stumble across in comics. When I was reading the comic in which Northstar came out in battle with an AIDS crisis motivated super villain, I flashed back to every single issue of Alpha Flight I have ever read and, as straight guy, was all, "Surprising? Actually it explains a lot."
I thought it was pretty clear way back when Auora offers to make Madison Jeffries a costume and Northstar mocks her. Her reply of "And since when have you objected to well dressed men?" was pretty clear. :-)
Gods I miss that Alpha Flight. Especially Heather and Madison.
GreenDragon1133 |
Aberzombie wrote:It reminds me why I liked Bryan Q. Miller's Batgirl. Stephanie was fun as batgirl not moody like the batkin. I like Nightwing for the humor and I'm a wingnut from the 90's.I think the problem for me was similar to why I finally gave up on Bat titles and (later) Green Lantern - too many books, all heavily inter-related, with endless cross-overs and multipart stories (many of which sucked big hairy goat balls).
Fun Fact: Barbara Gordon (the second Batgirl) is considered "the most popular" - though the method Warner uses for determining such things would make Barbara Pennyworth the most popular. But her first ongoing solo series began in September 2011.
The longest running Batgirl solo series starred Cassandra Cain, and was cancelled, not due to sales, but editorial mandate. Batgirl vol. 2 starring Stephanie Brown was of course, also cancelled by editorial mandate.Steph was the first Bat-title since the cancellation of Batman Family that I read monthly. Though I did follow Tim in Young Justice, and later, Dick in Justice League of America.
memorax |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My main issue with Iceman being gay is not so much the character became gay. Their was no real concrete evidence. His being unlucky with woman and relationships. That would mean anyone including myself must be gay. As at one time or another we all have been unlucky in love. The character was sacrificed on the altar of sexual diversity imo.
I hope they finally get around to retconning Black Cat as her as a villain really does not work and totally out of character.
Aberzombie |
Would you want mutants spun off into their own separate continuity / universe.....
I'm typically against something like this, mostly due to some awesome crossover stories I remember from back in the day. I always loved it when Wolverine would team up with Captain America or Original Recipe Nick Fury. And I recall a really awesome couple panels from years ago showing an after-the-victory conversation between Steve Rogers and Charles Xavier.
Set |
I thought it was pretty clear way back when Auora offers to make Madison Jeffries a costume and Northstar mocks her. Her reply of "And since when have you objected to well dressed men?" was pretty clear. :-)
Gods I miss that Alpha Flight. Especially Heather and Madison.
IIRC, Byrne was dropping hints as far back as issue 4, in the backstory where Mac Hudson straight up accuses Jean-Paul of using his powers to cheat at competitive skiing, and mentions something about gaining fame and fortune and women, 'not that you seem to have cared about the women.' According to Byrne himself the young man shown answering the phone at his house (and again later living at his house) was 'Jean-Paul's boyfriend' and the young woman shown lounging by the pool was 'his boyfriend's girlfriend.'
I liked Snowbird and Marrina and Diamond Lil, in particular, but I suppose some of the menfolk weren't bad. :)
Marrina's back, and could be developed interestingly, if any writer cared to. She's pretty much the inheritor to the Plodex technology (and leftover Plodex themselves, mostly mindless, compared to her) on Earth, and has a stronger tie to it than 'the Master of the World.' She's also, technically, Queen of Atlantis, unless dying annulled her marriage to Namor...
Drahliana Moonrunner |
My main issue with Iceman being gay is not so much the character became gay. Their was no real concrete evidence. His being unlucky with woman and relationships. That would mean anyone including myself must be gay. As at one time or another we all have been unlucky in love. The character was sacrificed on the altar of sexual diversity imo.
I hope they finally get around to retconning Black Cat as her as a villain really does not work and totally out of character.
She's always been self-centered, but she's never been a vicious villain, nothing more than an upscale burglar, really. The only reason she tried the hero gig was her fixation on Spiderman, although she really couldn't stand him as Parker.
memorax |
True yet from what I have heard. She has been turned into a full villain. No shades of grey or anything remotely heroic or good left in the character. I never viewed Black Cat as a hero. Yet turning her into the female version of the Kingpin is way out of character Imo. Made worse that they used the excuse of her getting punched by Spiderman as the readon to turn her full evil. It was not even Peter Parker but Doctor Octopus possessing his body.
It seems at least in Marvel. A character who is a villain. Are almost always portrayed as sociopathic, psychos with a anti (insert superhero or super team name here) With few exceptions. Or the heroes are always the good guys with no shades of grey Imo.
Thomas Seitz |
Memorax,
I think the reason they wanted her to be the next Kingpin is because no one else AFTER Fisk really has come on the scene that strongly.
But I do agree Felicia isn't evil, just more anti-hero. I am looking forward the issues in Patsy Walker aka Hellcat series where Patsy has a heart to heart with Felicia about her turn. Who knows? I mean Patsy has had her share of bad things happen to her. Maybe this will turn things around.
Regarding Marrina Smallwood, I don't think she's married to Namor any more for two reasons: 1) Her death at Namor's hands probably nullified that and 2) Namor is STILL dead right.
GreenDragon1133 |
True yet from what I have heard. She has been turned into a full villain. No shades of grey or anything remotely heroic or good left in the character. I never viewed Black Cat as a hero. Yet turning her into the female version of the Kingpin is way out of character Imo. Made worse that they used the excuse of her getting punched by Spiderman as the readon to turn her full evil. It was not even Peter Parker but Doctor Octopus possessing his body.
It seems at least in Marvel. A character who is a villain. Are almost always portrayed as sociopathic, psychos with a anti (insert superhero or super team name here) With few exceptions. Or the heroes are always the good guys with no shades of grey Imo.
Black Cat as a female Kingpin? So... Marvel still thinks of her as Catwoman. Has she also been outed as Bi?
Grey Lensman |
memorax wrote:Black Cat as a female Kingpin? So... Marvel still thinks of her as Catwoman. Has she also been outed as Bi?True yet from what I have heard. She has been turned into a full villain. No shades of grey or anything remotely heroic or good left in the character. I never viewed Black Cat as a hero. Yet turning her into the female version of the Kingpin is way out of character Imo. Made worse that they used the excuse of her getting punched by Spiderman as the readon to turn her full evil. It was not even Peter Parker but Doctor Octopus possessing his body.
It seems at least in Marvel. A character who is a villain. Are almost always portrayed as sociopathic, psychos with a anti (insert superhero or super team name here) With few exceptions. Or the heroes are always the good guys with no shades of grey Imo.
Her internal monologue mentions it waaaaay back in a small arc with Spider-Man written by Kevin Smith, IIRC (she mentions how long it's been since she has been with a man, or a woman for that matter). But nothing on panel other than words that I remember (but my reading is spotty at best).