Help me build a decent whip user


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So I was considering a whip whielding character and making one who can actually contribute to a fight doesn't seem that easy.
That said I like the concept (Iwas thinking about a zealous follower of Callistria dedicated to vengance) and the potential utility one can get out of the whip with trip and disarm. Granted it only really works against human opponents but since I would probably play this in PFS that's a minor issue.

So is there someone out there who managed to build an effective whip user? I'm thinking half elf brawler and possibly multiclass with mutation warrior (for extra dex and access to advanced weapon training later on) and/or warpriest.

Any idea how to make this work?


Rogar Valertis wrote:

So I was considering a whip whielding character and making one who can actually contribute to a fight doesn't seem that easy.

That said I like the concept (Iwas thinking about a zealous follower of Callistria dedicated to vengance) and the potential utility one can get out of the whip with trip and disarm. Granted it only really works against human opponents but since I would probably play this in PFS that's a minor issue.

So is there someone out there who managed to build an effective whip user? I'm thinking half elf brawler and possibly multiclass with mutation warrior (for extra dex and access to advanced weapon training later on) and/or warpriest.

Any idea how to make this work?

A Warpriest would certainly be able to get the damage higher....


Whips can be done with lots of classes.

Are you needing to threaten with your whip or just be good at attacking with it?

Do you want to be a magic user or mainly just an attacker?


Forgot which archetype it is, but there's an archetype foe the swashbuckler that seemed to be quite good and based around whip use.


Third Mind wrote:
Forgot which archetype it is, but there's an archetype foe the swashbuckler that seemed to be quite good and based around whip use.

Mysterious avenger. Thank you, seems like a good starting point. Unfortunately it's still feat starved so I'll need to multiclass it with fighter or brawler.

@ Chess Pwn: I'm mainly searching for a good build. Doesn't need to be top of the line competitive but to at least be able to contribute during a fight. Threatening with the whip and being good at attacking are both things I deem useful, casting spells while great is not mandatory for the character I have in mind.

Sovereign Court

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Of note - the recent errata to Ultimate Equipment made the scorpion whip much more viable.

Now - instead of being a confusing mess of table variation, it's both a whip (except that it deals lethal damage to everyone regardless of armor) and a light melee weapon at the same time.

Once you take all of the whip feats it amounts mostly to the same thing as a normal whip, but it makes it much less annoying to play with at low levels as you don't have the armor issue and can avoid AOOs.

In the end though, if you want to have the whip be your primary form of attack, I'd suggest either Warpriest or Swashbuckler since you can't two-hand or TWF with it. (You could technically TWF with scorpion whips, but not while using them as whips.) The Warpriest jacks up the dice for damage and has spell-casting for oomph, while the Swash is designed for one-handed combat anyway.

Scarab Sages

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Fighter. Either core, Weapon Master, or Mutation Warrior. You'll have the feats needed for Improved Whip Mastery, and you'll qualify the Focused Weapon AWT. You can also go Dex to hit/STR to damage and take Trained Grace AWT.


Imbicatus wrote:
Fighter. Either core, Weapon Master, or Mutation Warrior. You'll have the feats needed for Improved Whip Mastery, and you'll qualify the Focused Weapon AWT. You can also go Dex to hit/STR to damage and take Trained Grace AWT.

Yeah, Mutation warrior is what I was thinking about (alchemical bonus to dex is really good imo) but there's the problem I'd like to find a way to add dex to damage with the whip. Otherwise stats will look something like this: Str14 Dex18 Con12 Int10 Wis10 Cha13 but I detest having low wis with a fighter (for obvious reasons).

So start Swashbuckler(mysterious avenger), then brawler (mainly for brawler's cunning so I can trip and diarm without having to raise int to 13) and then fighter(mutagen warrior).
Will be quite weak during early game though.


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There are more than a few who make good use of this. My all time favorite is a battle oracle though. Though he isn't full BAB he is considered such for when he tries to trip and even is giving free feats to aid in that endeavor. Has full spells, heavy armor, decent health, and more. The trick is deciding what archetype to go with. An is t lorekeeper makes you a mystic theurge like, dual cursed gives party support, and war sighted makes you almost a full martial character.

Honorable mention to the magus though as the cold elemental spells he has in combo with a whip is just awesome. Warpriest is strong but a bit limited at later levels in terms of diversity. A crusader or evangelist cleric isn't a great whip user but channeling and domains offer some great opportunities to combo off of. And finally I give a nod to a ranger and bard.


Why not just go str based? Why try and go dex based?

IF you want to threaten with a whip than you need whip mastery and improved whip mastery and bab5. So you'll want to go full bab classes to qualify for that.

How often do you see yourself trying to trip or disarm instead of attacking them?


Whip magus focused on true strike and combat maneuvers is another great option.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

So is going balor. But if your GM allows that, you might have to have him committed. ;-)

I've seen some fun rapier & whip builds in 3.5. One was a fighter that used the whip to trip and disarm, and used his rapier to poke things. I also saw a bard do that, but she was less effective, but she only did that when not casting or setting up bardic performances. She was mostly just a flank buddy in a big party of 8.


I have a whip swashbuckler/magus/lore warden that can be fun. Not an optimized build, but can be entertaining. Grow large, cast true strike and drag a dragon out of the air with a reposition maneuver. Good times!


A guy in a game that is starting up soon wants to play a bard, which is just about the antithesis of him. Anyhow, I mentioned the bard's whip proficiency and now he can't shut up about it. He wants to trip and disarm, but I'm not sure how much time he'll actually spend doing so. What would be one or two goods feats to become better with the whip (in a general way), but not neccessarily specialized?


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
What would be one or two goods feats to become better with the whip (in a general way), but not neccessarily specialized?

Whip use is pretty feat intensive. I guess Serpent Lash can be a usefull feat. Two whip manuevers for the price of one.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
A guy in a game that is starting up soon wants to play a bard, which is just about the antithesis of him. Anyhow, I mentioned the bard's whip proficiency and now he can't shut up about it. He wants to trip and disarm, but I'm not sure how much time he'll actually spend doing so. What would be one or two goods feats to become better with the whip (in a general way), but not neccessarily specialized?

Weapon Focus (whip) and Whip Mastery

Sovereign Court

Ciaran Barnes wrote:
A guy in a game that is starting up soon wants to play a bard, which is just about the antithesis of him. Anyhow, I mentioned the bard's whip proficiency and now he can't shut up about it. He wants to trip and disarm, but I'm not sure how much time he'll actually spend doing so. What would be one or two goods feats to become better with the whip (in a general way), but not neccessarily specialized?

Bards don't really have the accuracy to do combat maneuvers effectively.


Yeah I know, but he tends to get hyper focused on stuff.


Serpent Lash seems good, but if you're using weapon finesse and combat maneuvers, you'll probably be wanting agile maneuvers as well. That's suddenly three feats. It's sad that whip mastery is a good feat, because it's just allowing the whip to act like the other 99% of weapons.

What about combat expertise and either imp disarm or imp trip. Better? Worse? These are the feats he first thought of.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

For a bard, barding is probably what your main schticht should be, with whip stuff being there for zest. It's ok to invest a few feats in whips, since there aren't many feats (that I know of!) that affect bardic performances.


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Hmmm, i would like to roll with a Simon build just so i can Justify playing the castlevania theme in combat. ^^; Suggestions?


Inquisitor or ranger.


Magus are fun.

Take the spire magus archetype and pick up frostbite,rime spell and enforcer.you get some good feats and can set it up so you're debuffing and attacking at the same time. add in wand wielder and a wand of truestrike and you can reliably trip or disarm through mid to high levels.

if he wants to stick to a bard, arcane duelist is good. the feats help damage with arcane strike and later the DR overcoming ones, the magekiller feats are also good with a reach weapon. and you get heavy armor and a shield which help you survive. the weapon bond allows you to cast with the whip and shield both.


My sole inspiration to every whip build ever, and you cant convince me otherwise.

Still, what makes a whip build effective to begin with? Is it basically tryign to "kite" with its range and then try to attach extra damage to it with effects similiar to the magus spellstrikes or enchantments?


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Whip using Warpriest of Calistria:

Human, 20 Pt buy:

STR 15 (+2) = 17, put level-up bonuses here.
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10 (or 12 if you want more skills)
WIS 15 (or 14 for higher Int)
CHA 7

First level feats: Weapon focus (whip), Dirty fighting (from Player Companion: Dirty Tactics Toolbox), Improved trip (or disarm if you prefer).

Third level feats: Whip Mastery, [Whatever else you want, Power Attack is a good idea]

Fifth level feat: Whatever you want

Sixth level bonus feat: Improved whip mastery (You qualify for this because you treat your WP level as your BAB for the purpose of qualifying for these bonus feats).

Seventh level feat: Combat reflexes or Martial Focus (flails) (Player companion: Weapon master's handbook)

Eighth level bonus feat: Greater whip mastery if you want to grapple using your whip. Otherwise, Weapon specialization, improved critical, greater trip, greater disarm, Cut from the air (Player Companion: Weapon Master's Handbook), or whatever you want.

At this point your whip character is pretty well established. It's not the most powerful, but it's thematic and does what it does pretty well.

Dark Archive

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Whip using Warpriest of Calistria:

Great feat selection, looks ideal.

Stats are tricky. Of all the gods, I'd find it hard to have a priest of Calistria have a Cha of only 7, but that's a Warpriest problem. Maybe that's why she's been kicked out to go adventuring rather that serve in the temple.


One of my players had an ... interesting idea for a whip user that he might use as a spare character for our Emerald Spire campaign at some point.
3 levels unchained rogue, magus 4, arcane trickster. Using gang up (party is relatively melee-heavy) to auto sneak even from a distance and spell strike for extra damage.

I have no idea how such a character would perform in the actual game, but at the very least it's an interesting concept.


Charon's Little Helper wrote:

Of note - the recent errata to Ultimate Equipment made the scorpion whip much more viable.

Now - instead of being a confusing mess of table variation, it's both a whip (except that it deals lethal damage to everyone regardless of armor) and a light melee weapon at the same time.

Once you take all of the whip feats it amounts mostly to the same thing as a normal whip, but it makes it much less annoying to play with at low levels as you don't have the armor issue and can avoid AOOs.

In the end though, if you want to have the whip be your primary form of attack, I'd suggest either Warpriest or Swashbuckler since you can't two-hand or TWF with it. (You could technically TWF with scorpion whips, but not while using them as whips.) The Warpriest jacks up the dice for damage and has spell-casting for oomph, while the Swash is designed for one-handed combat anyway.

Note that the recent errata to UE removed the line that said "If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.". So you now need to spend a feat to be proficient in scorpion whip.

Sovereign Court

whew wrote:


Note that the recent errata to UE removed the line that said "If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.". So you now need to spend a feat to be proficient in scorpion whip.

No it didn't. It only replaced the last sentence.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
whew wrote:


Note that the recent errata to UE removed the line that said "If you are proficient with whips, you can use a scorpion whip as a whip.". So you now need to spend a feat to be proficient in scorpion whip.
No it didn't. It only replaced the last sentence.

That was the last sentence.


I will give a third recommendation for Warpriest.

That class gives almost as many Feats as the Fighter, so you won't have a problem getting all the Feats you need to make whips effective. Also, while the Fighter will have more total Feats than does the Warpriest in the long run, the spells and Blessings of the Warpriest more than make up for it.

People decry the Warpriest's 3/4 BAB, but at lower levels, Divine Favor (and the almost mandatory Fate's Favored) more than makes up for the difference (while also giving a damage bonus). At later levels, Divine Power does the same.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
Serpent Lash seems good, but if you're using weapon finesse and combat maneuvers, you'll probably be wanting agile maneuvers as well. That's suddenly three feats.

If the whip is the primary way of applying combat manoeuvres, then agile manoeuvres is a waste. Anything delivered through the whip benefits from Weapon Finesse anyway.

If that's the plan, taking stuff to boost the manoeuvres seems like the best idea. He might prefer dirty fighting to combat expertise.

To my mind, the point of whip mastery is more or less to take improved whip mastery so you threaten with reach. I mean, if you don't, then why not just use a better weapon and not spend the feat? But obviously three feats in order to threaten is a lot, especially when he'd also want manoeuvre feats.

Taking the manoeuvre feats without taking the whip-specific feats seems to have more legs. The whip proficiency and whip just means the manoeuvres can be done at range. And then he can use a different weapon when he actually wants to inflict damage.


another vote here for a whip magus.

True strike + maneuver = auto success, and you dont need the feats cuz you're too far away to provoke.

Damage is fixed if you use damage spells instead of true strike, so you dont have to worry about dex to damage so much.

Just my thoughts.


Re Magus: Remember that whips are one handed slashing weapons and thus eligible for blackblade status.


Atarlost wrote:
Re Magus: Remember that whips are one handed slashing weapons and thus eligible for blackblade status.

Check with your GM first, because some may decide that even though it qualifies by the stated criteria, they want a 'blackblade' to be a blade.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Is there a whip-wielder guide? Because there should be! :-D


SmiloDan wrote:

So is going balor. But if your GM allows that, you might have to have him committed. ;-)

I've seen some fun rapier & whip builds in 3.5. One was a fighter that used the whip to trip and disarm, and used his rapier to poke things. I also saw a bard do that, but she was less effective, but she only did that when not casting or setting up bardic performances. She was mostly just a flank buddy in a big party of 8.

I'm actually making a bard that does just that. Does Mysterious Avenger overlap with Inspired Blade?


When I ran Council of Thieves the group's bard used a whip. He never inflicted a point of damage but he was very effective nonetheless.

He used Dazzling Display and a truly obscene intimidate score to demoralize opponents, and Greater Trip to set up AOOs for the party fighters, some of whom invested in Combat Reflexes to best take advantage of the situation. And all this from the safety of the second rank since the whip has 15' reach.


Second on the bard build.

Scorpion whip, despite the hoopla just isn't worth the feats.
Weaponwand (the spell) will let you deliver touch spells via wand.


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Cabalist Vigilante- at 2nd level you can get whip mastery and improved whip mastery with a single vigilante talent, and at 6th level you can get half-level to damage when finessing so you can TWF with whips. You also deal your level in bleed damage when you hit anybody who is denied their dex to AC.


Heather 540 wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

So is going balor. But if your GM allows that, you might have to have him committed. ;-)

I've seen some fun rapier & whip builds in 3.5. One was a fighter that used the whip to trip and disarm, and used his rapier to poke things. I also saw a bard do that, but she was less effective, but she only did that when not casting or setting up bardic performances. She was mostly just a flank buddy in a big party of 8.

I'm actually making a bard that does just that. Does Mysterious Avenger overlap with Inspired Blade?

Sadly no. For example one replaces Swashbuckler Finesse and the other alters it.


I see. I'll stick with Inspired Blade then. It gets me Fencing Grace at level one for dex-to-damage.


The new archetype of the investigator has proficiency with a whip.


Rogar Valertis wrote:

So I was considering a whip whielding character and making one who can actually contribute to a fight doesn't seem that easy.

That said I like the concept (Iwas thinking about a zealous follower of Callistria dedicated to vengance) and the potential utility one can get out of the whip with trip and disarm. Granted it only really works against human opponents but since I would probably play this in PFS that's a minor issue.

So is there someone out there who managed to build an effective whip user? I'm thinking half elf brawler and possibly multiclass with mutation warrior (for extra dex and access to advanced weapon training later on) and/or warpriest.

Any idea how to make this work?

Magus. Deliver touch spells like shocking grasp, frigid touch, etc at 15 ft range and trip them.

Grand Lodge

The kensai works well for this on of the few 3/4th bab classes that get proficency, and Weapon focus so you can get the mastery feats asap. Reach pairs well with debuffing and true strike.


I would also like some tips on how to build a Whip user.

I wanted to make an Antipaladin Whip user, and I noticed that the Div Lord Ahriman has the following boon:

_____

(2) Serpentine Lash (Su) Any whip you wield becomes an
extension of your embodiment of evil, lashing out against
all those who fail to prostrate themselves before you and
oblivion. You gain Weapon Specialization (whip) and Whip
Mastery as bonus feats, even if you do not meet the
prerequisites. In addition, your whip takes on the illusory
appearance of a serpent, and you gain a +2 profane bonus to
combat maneuver checks to trip opponents. If you wield a
whip with at least a +1 enhancement bonus, you can grant it
the dancing weapon special ability for 6 rounds per day as a
swift action. These rounds need not be consecutive

______

This seems good, but even if you gain the feats sooner than normal you still would need to be lv13 before you get this boon. But is it possible to wield a whip well even without taking these feats beforehand? Or is it easy to change these feats for others when you finally get them as a bonus?

An idea I had is to leave the Whipping for later and focus first on "Improved Unarmed Strike" and then "Crusaders Fist", to attack with Claws + Touch of Corruption.

Since later you also gain the Dancing Weapon with the whip, I can simply let it dance and still attack with your unarmed strike, simultaneously.

Grand Lodge

I just finished writing up a pretty solid whip user build for PFS, here it is if you are interested. Feel free to copy or modify it to your hearts content.

'Paladin' of Calistria:
Class: Warpriest 1 (Calistria)/ Avenger Vigilante 11
Race: Sylph
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral (Vigilante) / Chaotic Good (Social)
Faction: Grand Lodge

Str: 11
Dex: 17
Con: 12
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 14

Alternate Racial Traits: Breeze-Kissed, Like the Wind

Traits: Fate's Favored, Whip Specialist

Favored Class: Vigilante +HP

Items:

+2 Prehensile, Adamantine Stinging Whip 13550gp
+3 Mithral Chain Shirt 10100gp
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 8000gp
Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4 16000gp
Boots of Speed 12000gp
Circlet of Persuasion 4500gp
Cloak of Resistance +3 9000gp
Headband of Mental Prowess +2 (Int/Cha – Fly skill) 10000gp
Ring of Protection +2 8000gp

Total GP = 91150

1. Warpriest 1: Aura, Blessings: Charm/Luck, Focus Weapon: Whip, Orisons, Sacred Weapon: Whip
Feat: Weapon Finesse

2. Vigilante 1: Dual Identity, Seamless Guise, Vigilante Specialization: Avenger
Social Talent: Social Grace: Diplomacy

3. Vigilante 2:
Vigilante Talent: Whip of Vengeance
Bonus Feat: Whip Mastery (Whip of Vengeance)
Feat: Slashing Grace: Whip

4. Vigilante 3: Unshakable
Social Talent: Companion to the Lonely

5. Vigilante 4: Startling Appearance
Vigilante Talent: Shield of Blades
Bonus Feat: Power Attack (Shield of Blades)
Feat: Combat Reflexes

6. Vigilante 5:
Social Talent: Renown: Absalom

7. Vigilante 6:
Vigilante Talent: Signature Weapon: Whip
Bonus Feat: Improved Whip Mastery (Whip of Vengeance)
Feat: Airy Step

8. Vigilante 7:
Social Talent: Celebrity Perks

9. Vigilante 8:
Vigilante Talent: Lethal Grace
Bonus Feat: Weapon Finesse (Lethal Grace) - (Retrain level 1 finesse to Toughness)
Bonus Feat: Weapon Specialization: Whip (Signature Weapon)
Feat: Wings of Air

10. Vigilante 9:
Social Talent: Celebrity Discount

11. Vigilante 10:
Vigilante Talent: Shadow's Speed
Feat: Lunge

12. Vigilante 11: Frightening Appearance
Social Talent: Great Renown (Absalom)


I may be late, but saw that this was never mentioned.

Blacksnake archetype

It can be combined with main classes (alchemist, druid, rogue, monk, fighter, magus, barbarian, etc...), each loosing an aspect of them in exchange of getting whip focused class features, including it's exotic weapon proficiency feat.

Blacksnake Page


Well, it's third party, which is always a tricky thing. But true.

Since we're necroing : another option that went unmentioned is the Calistrian Ranger Style.
It's nothing crazy, not a lot of early access or prerequisite heavy stuff, but the main feats are there.
Could be interesting on a Slayer, as reach multiplies your chances at sneak attacks as it is. I would however need to double check how flanking works with the weirdness of whips, having never seen one in action (but been wanting to play one).

Sidenote, because I haven't looked at those in a long while : when "used as a whip", a scorpion whip counts as a one-handed weapon, correct?


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Step 1: You must whip it
Step 2: Whip it good

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