Does an unchained serpentine eidolon have a climb speed?


Rules Questions


Hello peeps,

A simple question, Does an unchained serpentine eidolon have a climb speed?

None of the serpentine base forms within the subtypes list climb as a free evolution, which would imply that it doesn't in much the same way as an Azata serpentine doesn't get a bite attack for free.

However, the base forms descriptions uses the text:

Each eidolon has one of three base forms that determines its starting size, speed, AC, attacks, and ability scores.

Which implies that a serpentine should get everything listed in its starting statistics. Therefore, should all serpentine eidolon get climb as a free evolution and Azata get bite?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

That looks like an artifact from Unchaining the Summoner.

I would treat all Serpentine forms as having the climb evolution, and treat the subtype base forms as replacing only the weapon evolutions. So, your Azata would get a climb speed, but would have a tail slap and martial weapon proficiency instead of a bite attack.


KingOfAnything wrote:

That looks like an artifact from Unchaining the Summoner.

I would treat all Serpentine forms as having the climb evolution, and treat the subtype base forms as replacing only the weapon evolutions. So, your Azata would get a climb speed, but would have a tail slap and martial weapon proficiency instead of a bite attack.

That's kind of what I assumed but I've just found this post from Mark Seifter in reply to the same question:

Mark Seifter wrote:
Luthorne wrote:
Hey, Mark, I was working on a summoner using Pathfinder Unchained, and I ran into some confusion, so I was hoping you could clear it up for me. Basically, the Advanced Player's Guide summoner had free evolutions for their base forms, but the Biped/Quadruped/Serpentine base forms listed on page 34 of Pathfinder Unchained seem to have evolutions hard-baked into things (serpentine starts off with a climb speed as well as a bite and a tail slap, but they're not called out as evolutions, for example). At any rate, I was planning to make a lillend-inspired azata as an eidolon, and it reads under Base Form for serpentine azatas, "(limbs [arms], tail, tail slap)". So I guess my question is...what of the serpentine form am I supposed to have by default? It seems silly for them to automatically have a bite attack (much less the exceptionally silly argument that you might now have two tail slaps), so it feels like the Base Form should overwrite those aspects (though it feels like someone new to the summoner would be confused if they were starting with the summoner from Unchained), but do they still get a free climb speed or not? I looked through the other types that have serpentine as an option, and none of them were listed as getting the Climb evolution as part of their serpentine Base Form, so I feel like it should, since otherwise it's useless for a climb speed to be listed that no serpentine creature gets inherently? But I'm not 100% positive, so thought I would consult you for your interpretation.
Those base form evos are baselines to use as a guide if you want to make your own new subtypes. In all ways, the subtype replaces the evos found there.

So I guess Serpent eidolons don't get climb for free.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I doubled checked the math, and it supports Mark's opinion. None of the subtype baselines get climb for free.

Bummer, I was mistaken about that for my elemental ally. I missed that Serpentine elementals get Improved Natural Armor instead of climb.

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