Serious Questions about how Non Lethal works in General


Rules Questions


Starting from the rules:

"Certain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you've accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you're staggered (see below), and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious."

"If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage. This does not apply to creatures with regeneration. Such creatures simply accrue additional nonlethal damage, increasing the amount of time they remain unconscious."

My first question stems from being dealt nonlethal damage. For example, if I have 10 Con and 20 Max HP, but someone deals 30 nonlethal damage. Does that mean I take the 20 nonlethal and then 10 lethal leaving me at 10 hp because nonlethal is a separate category? Or am I at -10 hp and dead? PLease explain why?

The second question is related to diehard, as the rules state:

"You are especially hard to kill. Not only do your wounds automatically stabilize when grievously injured, but you can remain conscious and continue to act even at death's door.

Prerequisite: Endurance.

Benefit: When your hit point total is below 0, but you are not dead, you automatically stabilize. You do not need to make a Constitution check each round to avoid losing additional hit points. You may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying. You must make this decision as soon as you are reduced to negative hit points (even if it isn't your turn). If you do not choose to act as if you were disabled, you immediately fall unconscious.

When using this feat, you are staggered. You can take a move action without further injuring yourself, but if you perform any standard action (or any other action deemed as strenuous, including some swift actions, such as casting a quickened spell) you take 1 point of damage after completing the act. If your negative hit points are equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you immediately die.

Normal: A character without this feat who is reduced to negative hit points is unconscious and dying."

My question for this is if my nonlethal exceeds my current hp I'm supposed to be unconscious, but in regards to diehard not even fatal blows can make you unconscious. So does that mean a Diehard character can remain conscious even if nonlethal says that you would fall unconscious or does nonlethal rules not apply to diehard?

I find it weird that a person is more susceptible of being knocked out with nonlethal damage, but can stand up from almost litterally dying. If they do fall unconscious from nonlethal damage then they're helpless and can be coup de grace very easily. That means they're especially easy to kill. I just find that odd. Can someone please rectify. I would greatly appreciate paizo staff to offer their input because my friends think I'm utterly wrong and to me it hurts the story of my character fighting to his last breath.


Non lethal damage is tracked separately.
So your first question: you have taken 20 non-lethal hp damage and 10 lethal, leaving you on 10 hp (and unconscious).

Diehard does nothing to help you stay conscious from non-lethal damage. It only keeps you conscious when you are at negative hp.

It might be weird to you, but that is the way the rules work. If it helps it is far from the worst offender for being counter-intuitive.

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