Experiences with the Rod of Giant Summoning?


Advice


Howdy all,

Just stumbled on this item. I'm running a 6th level Master Summoner and at 7, I'm tempted to pick up SMIV in one of my spell slots, along with a RoGS.

Even with a full round casting time, the access to huge creatures and significant damage boosts from size buffing little guys seems awesome.

How has this worked out for those of you who have used it?

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Well, im running a Shaman that does nothing that buffs and summons. at level 9, using the rod of Giant summoning, i have a Huge sized Earth Elemental, with ~ a +21-+27 to attack dealing 2d8+28 points of damage with each slam. im constantly holding back to not deal more damage than the barbarian. Generic summoning feats as well(No evolved summons though)


Moospuh wrote:
Well, im running a Shaman that does nothing that buffs and summons. at level 9, using the rod of Giant summoning, i have a Huge sized Earth Elemental, with ~ a +21-+27 to attack dealing 2d8+28 points of damage with each slam. im constantly holding back to not deal more damage than the barbarian. Generic summoning feats as well(No evolved summons though)

Can you post parts of your build that would explain how you get to those attack and damage numbers? I was interested in your post and started looking at it:

Large Elemental 2 slams +14 Attack (2d6+7 damage)
Large Elemental w/augment summoning 2 slams +16 Attack (2d6+9 damage)
Large Elemental w/AS and RoGS 2 slams +17 Attack (2d8+11 damage)

If you do power attack, you can take -3hit for +6 damage.


Nicholas,

I can't defend Moos' numbers, but the large to huge boost from RoGS is +4 hit/dam. The giant simple template is changing the monster size modifiers, augment summoning changes the enhancement numbers. They stack, unless there's an errata I missed.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/simple-template -giant-cr-1


I don't know if I am right, but I view the simple giant template as just getting +3 natural armor, +4 size bonus to str and con and -2 dex.

It's my opinion that table 2-2 in the bestiary doesn't apply at all.

Designer

nicholas storm wrote:

I don't know if I am right, but I view the simple giant template as just getting +3 natural armor, +4 size bonus to str and con and -2 dex.

It's my opinion that table 2-2 in the bestiary doesn't apply at all.

The rod itself is outside my wheelhouse, but for this question on the giant template, you're right nicholas storm: Table 2-2 definitely doesn't apply when using the giant simple template. That would often give you a creature way more powerful than +1 CR.


Mark and nicholas,

Thanks for these corrections! Sorry this ended up in advice and not rules.

To get the closest source I have, I hopped into:

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary3/monsterAdvancement.html#templa tes

Next question:

Does the creature receiving the template get the size boost? Quick rules do not provide it, rebuild rules do. Which do you feel is best to provide?

Mechanically, the physical size increase of a summon M>L>H is more interesting to me than the 4 additional strength and various size penalties\bonuses. The expansion of reach and efficiency of space occupancy are pretty intense with this rod if so.


You should definitely use the rebuild rules.

The 'quick rules' are a variant available to the DM if they're feeling lazy, not in any way a standard rule.

If something says to apply a template, the 'correct' way to do it is always to use the rebuild.

The Exchange

Rod of giant summoning a heightened mount communal spell+ alter monster to turn it into a huge elemental. Heroism +2 attack, haste +1 attack, augmented summoning +2 attack, 8 bab, giant template +4 attack, amulet of mighty fists +2, size -2, VMC Bard inspire courage +2 so:

8+4+2+2+2+1=+19. Adding in the natural strength from the large elemental 24 Str, +7 so that makes it +26. This is before actual combat buffs such as bless, and proxy summoning divine favor.

The Exchange

Sorry, math: adding in Hunter's blessing +2, and subtracting the huge penalty, makes it the same +26.


thanks


Huh, a giant long term elemental. That's a whole lot of spell and ability support for a pretty awesome "pet". Alter Summoned Monster seems powerful.

A few observations:
1.) I'm pretty sure you'd have to use the RoGS with the Alter Monster casting and not the HCM spell. Alter Monster has a "but no other spells or effects carry over".
2.) There may be an exploit with AM and the ROGS, as AM is a level 2 spell that trades much higher level monsters. I think it's a reasonable balance requirement to mandate an appropriate rod size to the traded creature.


I'm fairly certain that you can't use a Rod of Giant Summoning with Alter Summoned Monster by RAW.

I think you lose the benefit of the rod when you change the monster.


Olaf,

ASM meets the conjuration summoning requirement for RoGS itself. In theory, RAW indicates that you can actually use the rod while casting ASM.

I agree that the effects of a use of RoGS on the initial summon are lost. Then you swap it with ASM, another C:S spell.


Then you're probably golden.

It also means you can use a lesser RoGS regardless of what the effective level of the heightened Mount spell is.

So that's cool.

It's a bit of a shame (but good for balance) that this line is in the ASM spell:

Quote:
You swap a creature summoned by a conjuration (summoning) spell for a creature you could summon with a summon monster or summon nature's ally spell.

Otherwise you could take Wayang Spellhunter(Mount) and Magical Lineage(Mount), and your wizard could run around with a 6hour giant Hound Archon at level 3.

That'd be badass. For reference, it would have had 23 strength and 21 constitution with Augment Summoning and the RoGS. That makes for 63hp. At level 3. Suck on that, summoners.

Alas, it was not to be.


Yeah, that lesser RoGS thing is the exploity thing I named above.


Thinking it through, you could only use the exploit once. The new summon would have been brought in by a level 2 spell, so ASM'ing again would generate a critter from the level 2 lists.


Yeah, obviously. Still a good trick to have. Honestly, I think I would just have one of the highest-level things I could summon to hang around as a bodyguard all day, sort of like an eidolon.

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