Why I think the current FAQ / Errata cycle is bad for the health of the game and how to fix it.


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Sovereign Court

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graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

Yeah - the Jingasa is now utterly worthless. It would have been okay if they'd kept it at 1/day. Still not used often, but not totally pointless.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

Yeah - the Jingasa is now utterly worthless. It would have been okay if they'd kept it at 1/day. Still not used often, but not totally pointless.

I would have preferred a price adjustment to 15k or so and left its properties the same.


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
There are only 10 rooms in your dungeons, and everything is visible from the door?
You see through 15 feet of stuff, not 15 feet ahead of you. So if you're looking through a 10 foot thick wall onto Wriggly field, you see the entire field

Remember that by the Perception rules you can't see across the length of a baseball field.

More seriously, most official dungeons have a bunch of useless ones tossed in as well. Generally, you'll be looking at a bathroom or empty storage room 20% of the time or more.


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RIP Snapleaf
you saved my characters a number of times
see you at the crossroads you magnificent bastard

Silver Crusade

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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

Yeah - the Jingasa is now utterly worthless. It would have been okay if they'd kept it at 1/day. Still not used often, but not totally pointless.

I wouldn't call a 100% chance of negating a critical hit once worthless. Not even close.


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Rysky wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

Yeah - the Jingasa is now utterly worthless. It would have been okay if they'd kept it at 1/day. Still not used often, but not totally pointless.
I wouldn't call a 100% chance of negating a critical hit once worthless. Not even close.

Not really worth the opportunity cost though.


Scavion wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

Yeah - the Jingasa is now utterly worthless. It would have been okay if they'd kept it at 1/day. Still not used often, but not totally pointless.
I wouldn't call a 100% chance of negating a critical hit once worthless. Not even close.
Not really worth the opportunity cost though.

The benefit of negating a critical is useful in all levels, but the 5k price doesn't change.

It's not that good in early game, but in late game, I'd still buy these in the 10s.


It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.


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The Sword wrote:

It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

Silver Crusade

graystone wrote:
The Sword wrote:

It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

If you find it as loot with the negate already used it should only account for 2k, not for the full 5k the newly made item is worth.


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waiting for the next pfs scenario to have jingasa on the chronicle sheet


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Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
The Sword wrote:

It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

If you find it as loot with the negate already used it should only account for 2k, not for the full 5k the newly made item is worth.

*cough* Don't forget the "off-slot" penalty, which pushes it to 3k.

Sovereign Court

voideternal wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

Yeah - the Jingasa is now utterly worthless. It would have been okay if they'd kept it at 1/day. Still not used often, but not totally pointless.
I wouldn't call a 100% chance of negating a critical hit once worthless. Not even close.
Not really worth the opportunity cost though.

The benefit of negating a critical is useful in all levels, but the 5k price doesn't change.

It's not that good in early game, but in late game, I'd still buy these in the 10s.

You're ignoring the cost beyond 5k; it also costs you your head slot.

Silver Crusade

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
voideternal wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

Yeah - the Jingasa is now utterly worthless. It would have been okay if they'd kept it at 1/day. Still not used often, but not totally pointless.
I wouldn't call a 100% chance of negating a critical hit once worthless. Not even close.
Not really worth the opportunity cost though.

The benefit of negating a critical is useful in all levels, but the 5k price doesn't change.

It's not that good in early game, but in late game, I'd still buy these in the 10s.
You're ignoring the cost beyond 5k; it also costs you your head slot.

*scratches head* What else would you put there, besides a mental stat booster?

Silver Crusade

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Serisan wrote:
Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
The Sword wrote:

It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

If you find it as loot with the negate already used it should only account for 2k, not for the full 5k the newly made item is worth.
*cough* Don't forget the "off-slot" penalty, which pushes it to 3k.

Point.


Rysky wrote:
Serisan wrote:
Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
The Sword wrote:

It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

If you find it as loot with the negate already used it should only account for 2k, not for the full 5k the newly made item is worth.
*cough* Don't forget the "off-slot" penalty, which pushes it to 3k.
Point.

If that means negating a critical once ever is worth 2k, I think it's still underpriced.

Sovereign Court

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Rysky wrote:
*scratches head* What else would you put there, besides a mental stat booster?

That's exactly what you'd put there. For 1k less than the jingasa you could put a +2 Wisdom headband there to boost your will save plus several skills.

Avoiding a crit is nice. Having a better chance to avoid being dominated is better.


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Rysky wrote:
*scratches head* What else would you put there, besides a mental stat booster?
That's exactly what you'd put there. For 1k less than the jingasa you could put a +2 Wisdom headband there to boost your will save plus several skills.

Headband =/= Head


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Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Rysky wrote:
*scratches head* What else would you put there, besides a mental stat booster?
That's exactly what you'd put there. For 1k less than the jingasa you could put a +2 Wisdom headband there to boost your will save plus several skills.

Uh, the head slot and headband slot are separate...


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graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

The price remains the same. You can sell it and craft a new one at no loss. The quick runner's wardrobe is out, the revolving hat collection is in.

Sovereign Court

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Serisan wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Rysky wrote:
*scratches head* What else would you put there, besides a mental stat booster?
That's exactly what you'd put there. For 1k less than the jingasa you could put a +2 Wisdom headband there to boost your will save plus several skills.
Headband =/= Head

Good catch. >.<

Still several solid choices that it competes with depending upon the build.

Helm of the mammoth lord

Halo of inner calm (for tieflings)

Circlet of persuasion

Grappler's mask

Helm of Fearsome Mien (for barbarian/bloodrager/skald)

Silver Crusade

voideternal wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Rysky wrote:
*scratches head* What else would you put there, besides a mental stat booster?
That's exactly what you'd put there. For 1k less than the jingasa you could put a +2 Wisdom headband there to boost your will save plus several skills.
Uh, the head slot and headband slot are separate...

I thought so after I had posted but I wasn't sure.


Aratrok wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

The price remains the same. You can sell it and craft a new one at no loss. The quick runner's wardrobe is out, the revolving hat collection is in.

In an environment where you can craft, you can count on a GM who will also house rule the sale of an expended Jingasa.

Silver Crusade

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Aratrok wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

The price remains the same. You can sell it and craft a new one at no loss. The quick runner's wardrobe is out, the revolving hat collection is in.

Actually John Compton said in the other thread they're going to be discussing exactly how to handle the pricing of a used Jingasa.


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Rysky wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

The price remains the same. You can sell it and craft a new one at no loss. The quick runner's wardrobe is out, the revolving hat collection is in.
Actually John Compton said in the other thread they're going to be discussing exactly how to handle the pricing of a used Jingasa.

Oh? Are they going to do a third printing right away to fix it?

Silver Crusade

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Aratrok wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
graystone wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:
If an item is so good that everyone buys it, then it's probably a problem.

The reverse is also true. If an item is so bad, no one buys it, then it's probably a problem. Sadly, it looks like they just switch one problem for another. There is a middle ground, between too good and 'nuke from orbit' nerf, that errata/FAQ keep seeming to miss.

So what's the price for a second hand Jingasa after it's special one time only ability is used?

The price remains the same. You can sell it and craft a new one at no loss. The quick runner's wardrobe is out, the revolving hat collection is in.
Actually John Compton said in the other thread they're going to be discussing exactly how to handle the pricing of a used Jingasa.
Oh? Are they going to do a third printing right away to fix it?

*rolls eyes*


I think the Jingasa's power level went from "All optimized characters have this" to "Mid/Late game optimized characters have a few of these".


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Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
The Sword wrote:

It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

If you find it as loot with the negate already used it should only account for 2k, not for the full 5k the newly made item is worth.

I think my point still stands, that it seems unlikely you'll find an unused Jingasa in loot. Swords's point was that it was cool 'loot' and I just don't see that; you'd most likely have to have it crafted brand new.

They'd be better off making it JUST an expendable one use item and dumping the AC altogether, having it disintegrate after use as I don't see anyone clamoring for the deflection bonus in a head slot.


graystone wrote:
Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
The Sword wrote:

It acts as +1 ring of deflection as well. Sounds like a nice little item.

Of course if you are scouring the srd for the optimal method of spending gc in the magic mart I'm sure it doesn't look as good as it did.

However for everyone who gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

If you find it as loot with the negate already used it should only account for 2k, not for the full 5k the newly made item is worth.

I think my point still stands, that it seems unlikely you'll find an unused Jingasa in loot. Swords's point was that it was cool 'loot' and I just don't see that; you'd most likely have to have it crafted brand new.

They'd be better off making it JUST an expendable one use item and dumping the AC altogether, having it disintegrate after use as I don't see anyone clamoring for the deflection bonus in a head slot.

It sounds like a 3k talisman, honestly.


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voideternal wrote:
I think the Jingasa's power level went from "All optimized characters have this" to "Mid/Late game optimized characters have a few of these".
Ultimate Equipment, Third Printing Errata Document Preview (Probably) wrote:

...

In jingasa of the fortunate soldier, at the end, add “A
jingasa of the fortunate soldier must be worn for 24 consecutive
hours before using its effects.”
...


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Are you serious, or was that a 'this is my prediction'?


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Snowblind wrote:
voideternal wrote:
I think the Jingasa's power level went from "All optimized characters have this" to "Mid/Late game optimized characters have a few of these".
Ultimate Equipment, Third Printing Errata Document Preview wrote:

...

In jingasa of the fortunate soldier, at the end, add “A
jingasa of the fortunate soldier must be worn for 24 consecutive
hours before using its effects.”
...

Wait, is that real? I don't see an errata link here.


Nocte ex Mortis wrote:
Are you serious, or was that a 'this is my prediction'?

It's a Serious Prediction.

EDIT: There, I edited the other post to make the satire a little more obvious.


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graystone wrote:
Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
Quote:
gets their treasure from loot I'm sure it is a welcome addition.

Yes, an item that gives out the same bonus type as the ring I have a much better chance of finding... And for 3/5th's more GP! Color me unimpressed. And I'm SURE that it's one time only ability wasn't used before I found it as treasure... :P

'Look guys, I found a magic cooking pot of deflection. It's SUPER useful...'

If you find it as loot with the negate already used it should only account for 2k, not for the full 5k the newly made item is worth.

I think my point still stands, that it seems unlikely you'll find an unused Jingasa in loot. Swords's point was that it was cool 'loot' and I just don't see that; you'd most likely have to have it crafted brand new.

They'd be better off making it JUST an expendable one use item and dumping the AC altogether, having it disintegrate after use as I don't see anyone clamoring for the deflection bonus in a head slot.

Of course it'll be placed unused. The villain will be wearing it. From a GM's pov it's the best kind of treasure. Massive help to the BBEG, who survives your barbarian's crit because of it AND doesn't leave the players anything useful. :)


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thejeff wrote:
Of course it'll be placed unused. The villain will be wearing it. From a GM's pov it's the best kind of treasure. Massive help to the BBEG, who survives your barbarian's crit because of it AND doesn't leave the players anything useful. :)

LOL But it's a +1 cooking pot! LOTS of people would LOVE that ;)

Serisan wrote:
It sounds like a 3k talisman, honestly.

That's pretty much what they made, a 3k talisman taped to a +1 cooking pot. Why not cut out the middleman and get rid of the pot no one wants?

The Exchange

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My opinion, which might be worth nothing,

Errata on items should be admit it was a bad concept and remove it or fix the price, feats should be similar, add a "special: all prerequisites must be met" line if needed.

Changing what an item is seems strange,

Community Manager

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Removed some posts and their responses. Please keep this on-topic. If you want to discuss the second printing of Ultimate Equipment, please do it here. For more specific implications of the new printing for Pathfinder Society, see this thread.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

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Zaister wrote:


Well the items were unbalanced in home play as well.

Personally, I don't care much for PFS gaming, but mostly because there's simple none available around here. I still buy and read the scenarios. But PFS is certainly not the devil, it is a necessity of business, of creating a need for Paizo's product. PFS is an important mechanism of PR.

It's also got a house rules document large enough that it's practically another game entirely, is overly combat focused, and has many other quirks that make it different from home play.

"Well the items were unbalanced in home play as well" is just a silly statement. Which items? How were they unbalanced? Compared to what?

PFS is probably Paizo's most aggressive marketing tool, but it's different enough from the core game that it's hard to say if it's truly representative of how most people play. You don't level the same, you don't have crafting, you don't even really see the last 8 levels of the game, you're limited, sometimes arbitrarily so, on what races, archetypes, feats, class features, etc. you have access to, and there's many more deviations from the core game. Despite that, it is PFS feedback that informs errata and other game changes more than anything else. X ability makes single monster encounters too easy? Well, we can't say "use more monsters" because the GMs have to stick to scenarios and for whatever reason that's what the bulk of the boss fights are comprised of, so we'll globally nuke X. In fact, they'll nuke X so bad it won't even work anymore until the next print cycle.

So the frustration some people are feeling with the FAQ/errata process tends to fall under a few points:

1) PFS, by and large, informs what does or not get changed, and not everyone plays PFS. Moreover, PFS doesn't even operate under the same rules framework and assumptions as the core game; it doesn't even reflect what playing through an AP is typically like.

2) Oftentimes, well meaning errata breaks the game somewhere else, and in the worst case scenarios, does so in a way that's far more detrimental but less noticeable in an organized play setting. Mounted combat comes to mind as an example.

3) There's often no heads up, at all. Everything's rolling along, then you wake up to discover that your character no longer works (and this applies pretty equally to home and PFS play). I know that when Crane Wing was nerfed, many people on the forums didn't even know that it was considered a problematic feat until all of a sudden there was an errata release that was not only a nerf, but didn't actually work the way it was written, and because it was errata, the initial impression given was that everyone had to live with it, at least until the next printing.

So, when you have changes that affect something you didn't have any issues with, that may cause a problem elsewhere or simply render the rules element useless, and there was no warning it was coming, you quite naturally get reactions like the ones you see here. It can be doubly frustrating when the changes are made in reaction to a set of house rules that change the very framework of the game while only dabbling in a limited portion of it (PFS), when to people who aren't active participants in that venue it seems like it would have been much easier (and much kinder to the value of their book collections) to have them update the house rules rather than rewriting a core mechanic.


Yeah, Sslarn's pretty spot-on, there.


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One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?


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Ultimate Equipment 2 (Contains new versions of your favorite magical equipment and items just as cool)

Community Manager

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voideternal wrote:

One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?

No.


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voideternal wrote:

One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?

Liz Courts wrote:
No.

Alas!

I imagine it would be a rather insane amount of work to implement that, although it would be really amazing (and awesome)!

But thanks for hosting the RPD, nonetheless!


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Liz Courts wrote:
voideternal wrote:

One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?

No.

Perhaps putting older versions in parenthesis is an option?

Contributor

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Liz Courts wrote:
voideternal wrote:

One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?

No.

Liz Courts ponders the thought, feels her hairline receding and her hair graying, and quickly replies to the post.

Community Manager

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HyperMissingno wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
voideternal wrote:

One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?

No.
Perhaps putting older versions in parenthesis is an option?

The problem is, we would have to roll *back* to the original, then roll forward again, reduplicating a lot of hours of work that we really don't have to spare on a team of two people, who already have a lot on their plates. The scope (and content) of the PRD has grown beyond its original vision, and to any sort of versioning efficiently would require restructuring it significantly. It's not impossible, just not really feasible right now.

That being said, I am restructuring what I can when I can to make things less maintenance-heavy (if only so I can focus on building useful tools using the data we have :D ).


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Liz Courts wrote:
HyperMissingno wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
voideternal wrote:

One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?

No.
Perhaps putting older versions in parenthesis is an option?

The problem is, we would have to roll *back* to the original, then roll forward again, reduplicating a lot of hours of work that we really don't have to spare on a team of two people, who already have a lot on their plates. The scope (and content) of the PRD has grown beyond its original vision, and to any sort of versioning efficiently would require restructuring it significantly. It's not impossible, just not really feasible right now.

That being said, I am restructuring what I can when I can to make things less maintenance-heavy (if only so I can focus on building useful tools using the data we have :D ).

I bet if you created a rules wiki this Borg Collective of a community would have that created in no time.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Create Mr. Pitt wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
HyperMissingno wrote:
Liz Courts wrote:
voideternal wrote:

One possible solution to keeping people's home games from being modified inadvertently by changes like these is to make each version of the online rulebooks on the PRD and SRD toggle-able by errata. That way, the home-game GM could declare that they're using the first printing of Ultimate Equipment, and the players can still look it up online.

^ Can you actually do the above as of now?

No.
Perhaps putting older versions in parenthesis is an option?

The problem is, we would have to roll *back* to the original, then roll forward again, reduplicating a lot of hours of work that we really don't have to spare on a team of two people, who already have a lot on their plates. The scope (and content) of the PRD has grown beyond its original vision, and to any sort of versioning efficiently would require restructuring it significantly. It's not impossible, just not really feasible right now.

That being said, I am restructuring what I can when I can to make things less maintenance-heavy (if only so I can focus on building useful tools using the data we have :D ).
I bet if you created a rules wiki this Borg Collective of a community would have that created in no time.

Seconded, hell just grab a few handfuls of volunteers of really trustworthy posters who know the rules like the back of their hand if you're worried about random people hitting the edit button and scribbling graffiti on it.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

As I understand it, there's nothing stopping anyone from throwing up a copy of at least all of the OGL content with whichever original or errata version they want.

It's just a lot of work (and probably a decent financial commitment to host it.)

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