Does This Combo (ABP + Mythic Tiers) Make a Magic Item-Scarce Campaign Work?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, I dislike running games where everyone has to be decked out with magic items. I have had some success in this in running games with Automatic Bonus Progression, with these modifications:

- One may switch the order in which mental/physical bonuses are received, which allows for martials to receive their physical bonuses then their mental bonuses, as opposed to the normal order

-Casters may swap out the weapon enhancement bonus for the effects of metamagic rods, available in any combination, although the total metamagic adjustment of the metamagic feats cannot be greater than the total weapon enhancement bonus a normal character would have at that level and no individual rod may grant the effects of a metamagic feat that is greater than 1/2 the total max level adjustment(minimum 1).

-Weapon/armor enhancement bonuses apply to any weapon/armor used(except shields), do not need attuning, and are not diminished by a weapon's special enchantments(ex. Keen, Vorpal, etc.).

So, players normally end up with 1-4 items(depending on level and how far in the campaign we are) which, not including weapon/armor special ability enhancements, Cure wands, the occasional potion, and the rare scroll, are around 5-10% WBL, usually towards the lower end of that range. With the wands and the rest added in, can be around 15-20% WBL overall.

This has definitely cut down on the clutter. However, once gameplay starts to gets past the first half of the game(11th and onwards), I have noticed that, while still able to deal with threats, encounters for the parties I've run with few to no magic items seem to have a lot more difficulty than those with the normal amount. People have told me this is due to magic items providing ~1/2 of the power/versatility for characters of that level. While I don't object to a few magic items, heroes having too many items clashes with a lot of fantasy literature I've read, as well as my own personal sense of the genre.

So, I have noticed Mythic Adventures seems to provide more inherent abilities, as well as a decent power boost. While going full Mythic Tier 10 in my games would most likely be a bit much, adding at least a few Mythic Tiers seems like it'd be a good power/ability boost. It also helps a friend of mine has a copy of a third party supplement(Mythic Heroes Handbook) that seems to have good balance and would greatly expand options for this sort of play. Hence, I was thinking of using Mythic Tiers as a replacement for magic items. Would this work?

tl;dr: Want to run a campaign with few magic items, but am worried about PCs not keeping up with level-appropriate encounters. I've tried Automatic Bonus Progression, but need something more. Would adding in Mythic Tiers do the trick?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I just started a campaign where I'm doing the same thing, mostly because I really dislike the standard magic items in PF. I will be using mythic as well, but that part hasn't happened yet.

Obviously mythic will increase your PCs potential. The first tier or two, barring some of the path abilities as they aren't balanced against each other, is more easily managed and won't disrupt the game too much.

Depending on the encounters, you could also lower the difficulty there.


I'd suggest only giving one or two tiers of mythic, it can get pretty strong, probably require players to OK their choices with you as well and not allow anything that basically says 'Win against non mythic enemies'


Make good use of your friend's copy of the Mythic Hero's Handbook. In particular, read the back part, where it covers some common problems in mythic games and offers a variety of solutions. XD

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

GM Rednal wrote:
Make good use of your friend's copy of the Mythic Hero's Handbook. In particular, read the back part, where it covers some common problems in mythic games and offers a variety of solutions. XD

If you're looking for a good primer on balancing the mythic rules, you also can buy that chapter as a standalone PDF for just $2.99 right here: Mythic Solutions


Seannoss wrote:

I just started a campaign where I'm doing the same thing, mostly because I really dislike the standard magic items in PF. I will be using mythic as well, but that part hasn't happened yet.

Obviously mythic will increase your PCs potential. The first tier or two, barring some of the path abilities as they aren't balanced against each other, is more easily managed and won't disrupt the game too much.

Depending on the encounters, you could also lower the difficulty there.

412294 wrote:
I'd suggest only giving one or two tiers of mythic, it can get pretty strong, probably require players to OK their choices with you as well and not allow anything that basically says 'Win against non mythic enemies'

I'm aware of the power boost, just mainly wondering if it's enough to counter the effects of low numbers of magic items/low WBL. So while I'm not going to go full 10, may go a couple tiers beyond that, if it reaches level 20. Players already have to okay choices like that with me(as I do also work with them on which magic items they want to see if they're okay and to work their acquisition into the story. The Win against non-mythic enemies stuff ban is definitely a good suggestion, though.

Jason Nelson wrote:
GM Rednal wrote:
Make good use of your friend's copy of the Mythic Hero's Handbook. In particular, read the back part, where it covers some common problems in mythic games and offers a variety of solutions. XD
If you're looking for a good primer on balancing the mythic rules, you also can buy that chapter as a standalone PDF for just $2.99 right here: Mythic Solutions

Looking at it now, it's definitely a good section for curbing the power if it gets too much. Actually turns out I have a PDF copy, so no longer need my friend's copy of it. Do wish I remember when I got that, though. Literally no memory. But yeah, this part will be useful.

Liberty's Edge

If one of your players goes the archmage path, there's an ability that lets them recharge wands. If they take that, then be careful what wands you give them access to. I was running the mythic AP and my party came across a wand of dimension door. Between that and the arcanist's invisibility sphere spell, they trivialized most of the non-mythic encounters in the second book, to the point that I had to start adding mythicness to the fights that were supposed to be challenging so they'd have some fun.


One way to get them to stop trivializing encounters is to not give them experience if they bypass too many of them. Experience is mainly something they should get for overcoming challenges, and while sneakily avoiding them is appropriate in some circumstances, it's not good for all of them.

...

Although in fairness, the Mythic AP is not terribly challenging to begin with. XD I'm also running it, and I've found that simply adding more enemies is often necessary to maintain the right level of challenge.

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