Question about casting debuffs on host bodies.


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Let's say Mr Emerson P. Vilcaster (E. Vilcaster, for short) has cast the spell Magic Jar and takes over the body of some big strong meat-bag (let's call him Ayma Bigfellow), before setting off to attacks an adventuring party.

After the initial attack, the PCs choose to cast Enervation on E. Vilcaster/Mr. Bigfellow (as PCs love to do). How is Mr Bigfellow affected? How is E. Vilcaster affected? How is E. Vilcaster affected after Mr Bigfellow is slain?

Does anything change if E. Vilcaster is actually a ghost, and his inhabiting of Mr Bigfellow is via a ghost's Malevolence ability instead of a magic jar spell?


Enervation adds negative levels, and when you possess somebody through Magic Jar "you keep your... level". So I'd say Vilcaster would be affected by the Enervation, not Bigfellow, even if Bigfellow's body is slain.

As for casting Enervation on a "ghosted" Bigfellow, creatures with undead traits are immune to energy drain, and "an undead creature struck by the ray gains 1d4x5 temporary hit points for 1 hour". The body retains its hit points. The question is, which type would be a "malevolenced" humanoid? Undead, humanoid or both? I'd say the body's type. So, while under Malevolence, Vilcaster on Bigfellow would suffer the negative levels, and if he abandoned the body he would lost the negative levels and gain the temporary hit points for 1 hour minus the time since Enervation was cast on him.


This has come up before, but I don't think it was FAQ'd. In the other situations spells such as charm person were used but I don't think the point changes which is "who is the real target".


I also brings up questions like, even though a ghost might normally be immune to negative levels, if the ghost is possessing a body which has negative levels, does the ghost take those penalties?

Can the body/ghost be affected at all by negative levels while the ghost is possessing the body?

Their is a whole slew of questions that come up with this sort of interaction.


The ghost would not lose immunities. If the body dies or gets hurt badly the ghost can just exit.

I see nothing saying that the spell or affect changes your creature type. The only question I see is the target placed on the body or on the soul in case of spells like magic jar, and do buffs travel with the sould and benefit the body such as Resist Energy".


If the type doesn't change, and I agree it shouldn't as it is written, would the possessed body have the possessor's type, the body's type, both or the body's type for elements that stay and the possessor's type for elements that are transferred?


KalEl el Vigilante wrote:
If the type doesn't change, and I agree it shouldn't as it is written, would the possessed body have the possessor's type, the body's type, both or the body's type for elements that stay and the possessor's type for elements that are transferred?

The creature doing the possessing is generally not taking physicial damage. The body that is possessed is.

I think Paizo will have to differeniate between physicial buffs and mental buffs. As an example if the creature possessed is immune to fire damage then it keeps that even if the possessor is vulnerable to fire.

If the possessor has a spell such as cat's grace cast on him before he takes over the victim's body I would rule that spell stays with the possessors body, and if the possessor is something like a shadow demon then I would say it does not benefit from it since it is using the body's stats, and cat's grace was not cast on the body.

However something like bestow curse is on the creature(possessor assuming it is on him before he leaves his own body) no matter where he goes.

However that is all speculation.

PS: Now if bestow curse was cast on a creature that was already possessed that would be a hard call. I am inclined to say the possessed creature would be the target.


So - with the magic jar scenario, if the possessed body was touched with "Touch of Idiocy" - would it have any affect?
The body got hit, so the body's mental stats should take the hit... But those stats are laying dormant while the majic jar possessor uses his own mental stats. Right?

If - before the touch of idiocy spell's duration ended, the possessor abandoned the body, the formerly posessed individual would suddenly find himself mentally lacking, yet have no clue why,.

Right?


Occult rules clarify some of the issues, like interaction with charm person (you can charm the possessor if aware of it, or the original mind if it isn't displaced).

My rules: If in doubt I have effects that are unclear or mix both physical and mental effects stay with the body. It's cleaner that way IMO.

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