Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East
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So I've been thinking about the level tiers, and a problem I'm running into.
I like playing my characters from about level 5 through 9 (and lesser for 10&11), and I hate to waste me gm credits on leveling them out of that range.
On the other hand, I don't really like playing levels 1 through 4, and try to use gm credit on those levels as much as possible.
I don't really see it happening, but I'd love it if there were someway to apply those gm credits to lower tiers. Yes, I know I can apply them to level 1s, but I can already deal with level 1 with evergreens.
There's no real question here, just the stray thoughts of someone with about 14 scenarios left that I can play for credit.
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I think it's only 5 replays a year... (Assuming 5stars and plentiful Gming and access to as many Expanded Narrative Boons as you need)
I set myself little goals to keep it fun like...
I'm currently working on leveling my grandfathered Aasimar blob. It's currently level 6, trying to get it all the way to 12 via GM credit only.
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I thought they did make them reset every year... either way 90 credits per year is still pretty damn high, I also assumed you had GM replays for both Core and Regular or do you only get to use them for one? these also assume no evergreens being run or modules/ ap's etc.
Not everyone likes core and not every area has core.
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It would be great to be able to assign credits to a lower level character that isn't 1st, though it's probably a pain in the bum to work out and implement. If there is a system that could get this to work, then I guess it would also work for players who play higher level pregens and don't want to have to hold the chronicle or assign to level 1.
Problem 1: Assigning a value for gold earned for levels 1-9 (I'm assuming it would be irrelevant for levels 10+, but maybe not in the case of GMins a high level module or seeker arc). 500gp for level 1, and probably the same for 2 as well. Might actually look at the numbers for this when I get a free moment longer than this one.
Problem 2: Ensuring items and boons on the chronicle aren't available until the character reached the appropriate level.
Problem 3: erm... well... it's too complicated... maybe... probably not...
I'm currently working on leveling my grandfathered Aasimar blob. It's currently level 6, trying to get it all the way to 12 via GM credit only.
Currently doing the same with a grandfathered Tiefling blob that I'm unlikey to get a chance to play.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I also like to GM credit from level 1 to level 4.
I never apply GM credit to characters past level 4 and I try to GM things I've already GM'd whenever possible to avoid too much GM credit.
I've used 2 of my GM star replay, and I try to get the replay boon when possible to maximize my replays.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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So I've been thinking about the level tiers...I hate to waste me gm credits...I know I can apply them to level 1s...
Can this still be done? I just reread the GM Rewards section of the Guide, and don't see this as an option.
It is a (debatable) option if you interpret the, "A GM may assign credit for running an adventure in any of the same ways a player can, and must follow the same rules as a player when applying credit to a character," sentence as allowing you to assign the chronicle to a 1st level PC via the rule in the After the Adventure section that states, "You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with the amount of gp gained reduced..." But that seems awfully fiddly to me.
Anyhoo, not trying to derail. Honestly just curious.
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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Problem 1: Assigning a value for gold earned for levels 1-9 (I'm assuming it would be irrelevant for levels 10+, but maybe not in the case of GMins a high level module or seeker arc). 500gp for level 1, and probably the same for 2 as well. Might actually look at the numbers for this when I get a free moment longer than this one.
These values already exist. Chronicle sheets for the specials have the gold worked out per tier.
1-2: 500 GP
3-4: 1250 GP
5-6: 2500 GP
7-8: 5334 GP
10-11: 7667 GP
That leaves out a lvl 9 gold award, but you could go for 6500 which is the 'out of subtier' based on the gold of 7-8 and 10-11.
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These values already exist. Chronicle sheets for the specials have the gold worked out per tier.
1-2: 500 GP
3-4: 1250 GP
5-6: 2500 GP
7-8: 5334 GP
10-11: 7667 GPThat leaves out a lvl 9 gold award, but you could go for 6500 which is the 'out of subtier' based on the gold of 7-8 and 10-11.
Ah, of course they do! Right, well that was sorted pretty quickly, now we just need to wait for John to add this to the season 8 guide. John? John!!
I suffer from the exact opposite problem from the OP... in fact one that not many other judges encounter.
I like playing my characters from level 1 through about level 7 or 8, and I so I'll often use my Tier 7-11 judge credits (and to a lesser extent the Tier 5-9 ones) on leveling them out to retirement (after level 9 or so).
On the other hand, I don't really like playing levels 9 and above, and there is no way to assign chronicles to HIGHER level PCs... say assigning a Tier 1-5 to a level 11.2 PC to bump him into retirement.
I don't really see it happening, but I'd love it if there were some way to apply those judge credits to higher tier PCs. Even keeping the money/XP/Fame the same...
I guess it could work this way too, can't really think of a good reason right now why this couldn't work, using the gold values from the special table. Guess it would have to be obvious on the chronicle that it was earned via GMing or it could lead to an awkward audit.. maybe.
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
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The rules for assigning credit to a new 1st level character were created so new players could immediately use the Chronicle Sheet to create their very own character.
It was not made so people could avoid playing their character at certain levels, because they don't really like playing those levels.
Expanding ways to apply GM credits even further than is currently possible seems like a bad idea to me.
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I stopped taking GM credit a while back for just this reason - either the credit was "held" for a higher level I'd likely never play, or I'd lose out on a play session with a character I enjoy playing. Now I just build Gm credit babies as an exercise in character building. With one PC I would write up the GM credit "adventure" as if I had played it, and that made it a bit more fun.
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The rules for assigning credit to a new 1st level character were created so new players could immediately use the Chronicle Sheet to create their very own character.
It was not made so people could avoid playing their character at certain levels, because they don't really like playing those levels.
Expanding ways to apply GM credits even further than is currently possible seems like a bad idea to me.
+1
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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The "A GM may assign credit for running an adventure in any of the same ways a player can" was specifically added to allow a GM to apply credit to a lvl 1 character.
Hm. I guess I have to disagree with this.
The rules for assigning credit to a new 1st level character were created so new players could immediately use the Chronicle Sheet to create their very own character.
It was not made so people could avoid playing their character at certain levels, because they don't really like playing those levels.
Expanding ways to apply GM credits even further than is currently possible seems like a bad idea to me.
I'm more inclined to agree with this. The GM isn't playing a pre-generated character while he's running the adventure.
Diverging how GMs can gain credit from the listed ways that players can get credit is bad. If we can take an adventure, reduce the gold, and assign it to a L1 despite having PCs at the correct tier, then why can a player not do the same?
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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If we can take an adventure, reduce the gold, and assign it to a L1 despite having PCs at the correct tier, then why can a player not do the same?They can. By playing a pregen.
Fair enough. I will say, however, that I feel this is another question of how to interpret what has been written down.
A different question, then: By doing this (playing a pre-gen instead of choosing a PC they have in that level range), aren't they avoiding playing a scenario with a PC of their own, and thus not taking on any of the "risk" of playing at that tier? I can, therefore, go "boon farming, or item farming" at the higher tiers, and assign the chronicle to a lower level PC with the intent of making sure I have early access to that stuff.
For instance: I can take the chronicle from the current Tier 12-15 adventure, reduce the gp to 500, assign it to a L1, and get access to those super-sweet items on the chronicle long before a PC would be able to get there with prestige. And when you factor in truly unique items, this is even more egregious. As a GM, I have this option. As a player, I do not (by virtue of there being no legal pre-gen 12th-15th level characters).
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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A different question, then: By doing this (playing a pre-gen instead of choosing a PC they have in that level range), aren't they avoiding playing a scenario with a PC of their own, and thus not taking on any of the "risk" of playing at that tier?
Yes, but they are also playing a pregen and not playing their own character. In my experience the vast majority of players prefer to play their own characters whenever possible.
The pregen will also not qualify them for any faction journal card rewards or faction-based scenario rewards (unless they are Grand Lodge).
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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A different question, then: By doing this (playing a pre-gen instead of choosing a PC they have in that level range), aren't they avoiding playing a scenario with a PC of their own, and thus not taking on any of the "risk" of playing at that tier?Yes, but they are also playing a pregen and not playing their own character. In my experience the vast majority of players prefer to play their own characters whenever possible.
The pregen will also not qualify them for any faction journal card rewards or faction-based scenario rewards (unless they are Grand Lodge).
Not to be "that guy," but I don't care. I now get to apply the chronicle with a CL10 flame blade wand with only 10 charges to my 1st level soon-to-be druid .
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Not to be "that guy," but I don't care. I now get to apply the chronicle with a CL10 flame blade wand with only 10 charges to my 1st level soon-to-be druid .A different question, then: By doing this (playing a pre-gen instead of choosing a PC they have in that level range), aren't they avoiding playing a scenario with a PC of their own, and thus not taking on any of the "risk" of playing at that tier?Yes, but they are also playing a pregen and not playing their own character. In my experience the vast majority of players prefer to play their own characters whenever possible.
The pregen will also not qualify them for any faction journal card rewards or faction-based scenario rewards (unless they are Grand Lodge).
I believe the prohibition on rewards and access not taking effect until you hit the minimum level is still in effect
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I believe the prohibition on rewards and access not taking effect until you hit the minimum level is still in effectNot to be "that guy," but I don't care. I now get to apply the chronicle with a CL10 flame blade wand with only 10 charges to my 1st level soon-to-be druid .A different question, then: By doing this (playing a pre-gen instead of choosing a PC they have in that level range), aren't they avoiding playing a scenario with a PC of their own, and thus not taking on any of the "risk" of playing at that tier?Yes, but they are also playing a pregen and not playing their own character. In my experience the vast majority of players prefer to play their own characters whenever possible.
The pregen will also not qualify them for any faction journal card rewards or faction-based scenario rewards (unless they are Grand Lodge).
Not in effect.
You do not lose access to any of the Prestige Points, or items listed on the Chronicle sheets that were earned during the adventure
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Digging, but in the meantime You could do the same thing playing up on a pregen. Why would we have an avenue open to a pregen (the least desireable form of play) over DMing? (the thing we try to encourage the most)
Honestly, this is why I'm not a fan of the "play a pre-gen at any sub-tier" rule.
But, to specifically answer your question, in my mind it has more to do with things like Seeker level chronicles. If I, as a GM, can apply a chronicle I earned from GMing Witchar Legacy to a 1st level PC, then I have early access to some bad-ass stuff, stuff no one else is ever going to see until they can PLAY that scenario.
And while, in general, "early access" is not really very early, there are certainly more unique items appearing on Seeker level chronicles than on regular play chronicles.
PS - I apologize for the derail. I really didn't want to do that...
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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I believe the rules for applying higher level chronicle sheets to first level characters specify that you don't gain access to the boons on the chronicle until you hit the appropriate level, however gear is immediately available.
I am personally fine with this. Full disclosure, I applied GM credit for Emerald Spire—The Emerald Root (levels 11-13), to a first level character who could take advantage of a unique item on the chronicle sheet. He won't be able to afford it until higher level, but otherwise that cool and unique item being on the chronicle won't matter since I won't ever have a character that can use it.
Also, similar chronicle acrobatics are required to reasonable utilize some of the rewards from the Iron Gods chronicles.
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Meh. Its a useful place to be even if it wasn't where you were headed. Lawful types are always so worried about getting to the planned destination they never stop to think if it was the right one..
Gold is usually your real limiter anyway. Its really rare its an issue at all, and then only by an adventure or two.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I believe the rules for applying higher level chronicle sheets to first level characters specify that you don't gain access to the boons on the chronicle until you hit the appropriate level, however gear is immediately available.
I am personally fine with this. Full disclosure, I applied GM credit for Emerald Spire—The Emerald Root (levels 11-13), to a first level character who could take advantage of a unique item on the chronicle sheet. He won't be able to afford it until higher level, but otherwise that cool and unique item being on the chronicle won't matter since I won't ever have a character that can use it.
** spoiler omitted **
Also, similar chronicle acrobatics are required to reasonable utilize some of the rewards from the Iron Gods chronicles.
"Unfair" is the word that will be levied against this practice.
Is it cool for a GM to be able to do this? Yes. Will I take advantage of this? Absolutely. Do I want to discourage GMing by locking off this avenue? No (though I don't think it will, personally).
But it is a game-play option that players do not have. That is never good, in my opinion.
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I really don't want to deal with remembering what will happen when a character hits level 7 or level 3 in YEARS from now , so i just stick them on a first level character and hop right to not being made of explodium. Unless i have a character sitting at level 6 (kind of a dead level) in which case i may use that to push them over to the wide open world of 7-11s
... You know i have no idea what level one of my characters even IS...
Venture-Agent, Virginia—Hampton Roads
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For instance: I can take the chronicle from the current Tier 12-15 adventure, reduce the gp to 500, assign it to a L1, and get access to those super-sweet items on the chronicle long before a PC would be able to get there with prestige. And when you factor in truly unique items, this is even more egregious. As a GM, I have this option. As a player, I do not (by virtue of there being no legal pre-gen 12th-15th level characters).
If we just eliminate the items on the sheet as accessible when converted to a LV 1 sheet this would be the easiest fix to the problem for either player or GM.
Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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If we just eliminate the items on the sheet as accessible when converted to a LV 1 sheet this would be the easiest fix to the problem for either player or GM.
For instance: I can take the chronicle from the current Tier 12-15 adventure, reduce the gp to 500, assign it to a L1, and get access to those super-sweet items on the chronicle long before a PC would be able to get there with prestige. And when you factor in truly unique items, this is even more egregious. As a GM, I have this option. As a player, I do not (by virtue of there being no legal pre-gen 12th-15th level characters).
Or make the items available at the same time as the boons, ie when the character reaches the level of the subtier.
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The "A GM may assign credit for running an adventure in any of the same ways a player can" was specifically added to allow a GM to apply credit to a lvl 1 character.Hm. I guess I have to disagree with this.
I distinctly recall a discussion, where this was the language decided on to make sure that the previous language excluding GMs from applying credit to level 1 characters no longer applied.
I can't find it now so maybe I imagined it though.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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The "A GM may assign credit for running an adventure in any of the same ways a player can" was specifically added to allow a GM to apply credit to a lvl 1 character.Hm. I guess I have to disagree with this.I distinctly recall a discussion, where this was the language decided on to make sure that the previous language excluding GMs from applying credit to level 1 characters no longer applied.
I can't find it now so maybe I imagined it though.
S'okay.
I actually remember that you *could* do this. Then it went away. Now it is (possibly) back.
Things change. No biggie.
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I'm just starting out with the GMing with PFS.
It'd be nice to be able to apply 'reverse credit' if, for the sake of example, I got dragooned into running a series of 'evergreen' tables at a convention or the like.
Time that I've used from my life will have helped the campaign, and helped it grow, but at the same time, not being able to do something constructive with it (save build an ever-growing mass of GM 'credit babies') could be a bit dampening on further enthusiasm to help in that manner.
Perhaps just my take on it, but if 'reverse chronicle application' were allowed, perhaps under the same rules as other chronicles aside from that, and only for GMs as a *thank you* for the hard work?