About Eldritch Knight and Magus


Rules Questions


My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook. I was checking the eldritch knight to make a wizard similar to a magus and just realized something.

If I recall well you can get weapon focus (melee touch attack) and weapon focus (ranged touch attack). As an eldritch knight your levels stack with fighter levels for the porpouse of feats requiring fighter levels and magus levels count as half his levels for the same porpouse.

So I realized you can get greater weapon focus (melee touch attack), greater weapon focus (ranged touch attack), weapon especialization (melee touch attack) and weapon especialization (ranged touch attack). Further more if you get more fighter levels you could get greater especialization.

Am I right or I just misunderstood the rules?


Sure. But it only ever becomes 2 hp of damage, weapon specialization (ray) does not let you do 1d4+2 negative levels with Enervation or more ability damage with an ability damage spell.


Beriliand wrote:
My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook.

Core Rulebook classes only is the dumbest rule. Wizard, Sorcerer, (core) Rogue and (core) Monk are ok, but Alchemist, Cavalier and Oracle are not?


I know but you can get a +2 bonus to attack rolls, so you can cast enervation or death touch with +2 and +2 damage if the target succeds on the ST, pretty deadly if you ask me. Or if you are evoker you deal more damage than half your level with touch spells.


Manly-man teapot wrote:
Beriliand wrote:
My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook.
Core Rulebook classes only is the dumbest rule. Wizard, Sorcerer, (core) Rogue and (core) Monk are ok, but Alchemist, Cavalier and Oracle are not?

He says those classes don't appear on the campain setting so he doesn't want us to play them. He also doesn't allow archetypes.


Beriliand wrote:
Manly-man teapot wrote:
Beriliand wrote:
My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook.
Core Rulebook classes only is the dumbest rule. Wizard, Sorcerer, (core) Rogue and (core) Monk are ok, but Alchemist, Cavalier and Oracle are not?
He says those classes don't appear on the campain setting so he doesn't want us to play them. He also doesn't allow archetypes.

In what setting are there Monks and Paladins but not Cavaliers? Clerics but not Warpriests?Duelists but not swashbucklers? Why would you ever allow an Eldritch Knight but not a Magus. The magus is Paizo's solution to the PrC nerf. Those classes fill mechanical niches and the flavour is the same as the core classes just with a slightly different theme towards a specific goal. I understand a GM keeping power creep low but he should just come out and say it.


fearcypher wrote:
I understand a GM keeping power creep low but he should just come out and say it.

I don't. Wizard and most the very best spells are in the CRB.

Dark Archive

fearcypher wrote:
Beriliand wrote:
Manly-man teapot wrote:
Beriliand wrote:
My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook.
Core Rulebook classes only is the dumbest rule. Wizard, Sorcerer, (core) Rogue and (core) Monk are ok, but Alchemist, Cavalier and Oracle are not?
He says those classes don't appear on the campain setting so he doesn't want us to play them. He also doesn't allow archetypes.
In what setting are there Monks and Paladins but not Cavaliers? Clerics but not Warpriests?Duelists but not swashbucklers? Why would you ever allow an Eldritch Knight but not a Magus. The magus is Paizo's solution to the PrC nerf. Those classes fill mechanical niches and the flavour is the same as the core classes just with a slightly different theme towards a specific goal. I understand a GM keeping power creep low but he should just come out and say it.

I'm the Beriliand's GM. Beri has not told you the reason why I have banned classes.

We are Spanish, and for play campain, i allow only those books that are translated, not to have a low power. Is that a crime?


Beriliand wrote:

My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook. I was checking the eldritch knight to make a wizard similar to a magus and just realized something.

If I recall well you can get weapon focus (melee touch attack) and weapon focus (ranged touch attack). As an eldritch knight your levels stack with fighter levels for the porpouse of feats requiring fighter levels and magus levels count as half his levels for the same porpouse.

So I realized you can get greater weapon focus (melee touch attack), greater weapon focus (ranged touch attack), weapon especialization (melee touch attack) and weapon especialization (ranged touch attack). Further more if you get more fighter levels you could get greater especialization.

Am I right or I just misunderstood the rules?

I think there is weapon focus(ray), not ranged touch attack, and there is no weapon focus (melee touch attack) either.

prd wrote:
You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple (or ray, if you are a spellcaster) as your weapon for the purposes of this feat.

The ranged touch attack is the delivery mechanism just like ranged attacks are how bows work, and that is why there is no weapon focus (ranged attack)


Furansisuco wrote:

I'm the Beriliand's GM. Beri has not told you the reason why I have banned classes.

We are Spanish, and for play campain, i allow only those books that are translated, not to have a low power. Is that a crime?

I don't believe it was meant as a slight about that. There are a lot of GMs who do the Core only rule and it's infuriatung when you are stuck playing that way.

I also doubt anyone had realized that there was no translation for your language, so the assumption was that the reason the rule was there was to avoid power creep, especially when some of the least balanced classes are in that book

Dark Archive

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Oxylepy wrote:
Furansisuco wrote:

I'm the Beriliand's GM. Beri has not told you the reason why I have banned classes.

We are Spanish, and for play campain, i allow only those books that are translated, not to have a low power. Is that a crime?

I don't believe it was meant as a slight about that. There are a lot of GMs who do the Core only rule and it's infuriatung when you are stuck playing that way.

I also doubt anyone had realized that there was no translation for your language, so the assumption was that the reason the rule was there was to avoid power creep, especially when some of the least balanced classes are in that book

Believe it or not, it's not my problem, that's the truth, just let play for campaigns and translated in physical or digital books. I mastered campaign Runelord and one of the characters is playing with a gunslinger.

also say that beriliand is my best player and we know from kids. but the other three players are starting in the Pathfinder system.
as GM I try to teach each player a personalized way, I only had five hits and more than twenty failures.
I would ask attempt to resolve the question Beriliand and leave my personal reasons that allow or not allow a campaign


To answer the original question, since people seem focused on answering a question which wasn't there...

Yes, that looks legal if I'm reading it right. But the bonus damage is negligible to a caster, who tends to hit with only a single big damage pool at one time. You deal 6d6+int damage in one hit, so 6d6+int+2 damage is not much. The +2 to hit is nice, but you're using touch spells so it might not matter much unless they have high dex.

The +2 damage is only ever for spells which deal HP damage. It does not apply to str damage, con dmg, negative levels, or anything like that. Just HP damage. It's useful for an archer, who hits 6+ time in a round to deal 12 extra damage a turn. It's not so useful for a caster who deals only two extra damage at a time. So while you *can* do that with your feats, there's far better options. Like metamagics, and spell specialization, and crafting... Even using those fighter levels to take Critical feats would be more useful than specialization. Spells critting on a 19+ instead of a 20, and dealing an extra save or suck? That's power. The extra 2 damage is negligible in most builds. But that's for you to decide.

I suppose +2 to hit and damage with some spells could be more useful. Scorching ray hits several times, so it would benefit more. AOE spells can get +2 damage per target, instead of per casting. It's a nice buff to Magic Missile if you can get it, though the auto hit means the bonus to hit is useless. I'm sure there's others that you can work with to get the most out of the feats. But that's part of the problem... You're having to work to make the most of those feats. More effort on your part to get anything approaching a good effect out of it.

Have fun either way! That's the important part.


Beriliand wrote:

My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook. I was checking the eldritch knight to make a wizard similar to a magus and just realized something.

If I recall well you can get weapon focus (melee touch attack) and weapon focus (ranged touch attack). As an eldritch knight your levels stack with fighter levels for the porpouse of feats requiring fighter levels and magus levels count as half his levels for the same porpouse.

So I realized you can get greater weapon focus (melee touch attack), greater weapon focus (ranged touch attack), weapon especialization (melee touch attack) and weapon especialization (ranged touch attack). Further more if you get more fighter levels you could get greater especialization.

Am I right or I just misunderstood the rules?

As Wraithstrike pointed out, melee touch attack and ranged touch attack are not valid choices for the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization fears. The CRB lets you select a manufactured or natural weapon, unarmed strike, grapple, or ray. That's all. Other books do add options like Mystic Bolts.


Come on, don't be so harsh on the GM. The language issue is completely legit.

Community Manager

Removed an unhelpful post. People restrict book options in their games for perfectly valid reasons that have no impact on your game—please be civil to each other.

The Exchange

Weapon Specialization (ray) + Greater Weapon Specialization (ray) + Point Blank Shot is nice if you like to spam the ray of frost cantrip (1d3+5 on a ranged touch attack is nice to be able to pull out of your toolkit, even if it won't be your go-to attack by the time you're looking at Greater Weapon Specialization), and helps with any other damaging rays you may cast too. Also nice if you have a ray-blasting wand, 'cos it's 'rays' not specifically rays from your own spells. Not the most optimized choice, of course, but definitely 'nice'.


Furansisuco wrote:
Oxylepy wrote:
Furansisuco wrote:

I'm the Beriliand's GM. Beri has not told you the reason why I have banned classes.

We are Spanish, and for play campain, i allow only those books that are translated, not to have a low power. Is that a crime?

I don't believe it was meant as a slight about that. There are a lot of GMs who do the Core only rule and it's infuriatung when you are stuck playing that way.

I also doubt anyone had realized that there was no translation for your language, so the assumption was that the reason the rule was there was to avoid power creep, especially when some of the least balanced classes are in that book

Believe it or not, it's not my problem, that's the truth, just let play for campaigns and translated in physical or digital books. I mastered campaign Runelord and one of the characters is playing with a gunslinger.

also say that beriliand is my best player and we know from kids. but the other three players are starting in the Pathfinder system.
as GM I try to teach each player a personalized way, I only had five hits and more than twenty failures.
I would ask attempt to resolve the question Beriliand and leave my personal reasons that allow or not allow a campaign

Ah I see. I apologize then, most GMs try to limit and nerf things but in the end make the game less fun for everyone involved. But if you're only using what's available to you then that is fine.

I believe that there may have been a translation error in the book though as melee/ranged touch attack aren't valid choices for weapon focus/specialization. Also Gunslinger is an exception to most balance points. It is a very powerful class for killing things.

Silver Crusade

Furansisuco wrote:
fearcypher wrote:
Beriliand wrote:
Manly-man teapot wrote:
Beriliand wrote:
My GM is about to begin Council of Thieves campain and he only allows to play with classes from the core rulebook.
Core Rulebook classes only is the dumbest rule. Wizard, Sorcerer, (core) Rogue and (core) Monk are ok, but Alchemist, Cavalier and Oracle are not?
He says those classes don't appear on the campain setting so he doesn't want us to play them. He also doesn't allow archetypes.
In what setting are there Monks and Paladins but not Cavaliers? Clerics but not Warpriests?Duelists but not swashbucklers? Why would you ever allow an Eldritch Knight but not a Magus. The magus is Paizo's solution to the PrC nerf. Those classes fill mechanical niches and the flavour is the same as the core classes just with a slightly different theme towards a specific goal. I understand a GM keeping power creep low but he should just come out and say it.

I'm the Beriliand's GM. Beri has not told you the reason why I have banned classes.

We are Spanish, and for play campain, i allow only those books that are translated, not to have a low power. Is that a crime?

I think your reasons for restricting your game to core rule book only are very valid reasons. A while ago i was running a pathfinder game on my computer on something called google hang out. Its like Skype. I had three players. One player had lots of experience in pathfinder. My two other players were just being introduced to pathfinder. I restricted the game to core rule book only. This way everyone was playing with the same rules, had the same choices to choose from, and my new players were not overwhelmed by choices. I would like to think we all had fun.

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