|
| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Per John's request, I'm starting a new thread to discuss Emergency Force Sphere.
I strongly dislike that EFS can completely allow you to ignore your deficiencies. I'd love to see an enemy use it once or twice, as well.Perhaps it's a conversation to take to a different thread.
(In regards to enemies using EFS)
Unfortunately, the action economy is far in favor of the PCs on that front—even were we to reprint the spell in a sidebar (it's in a softcover book, after all). The creature is then inside the sphere until it teleports out (usually a standard action) or dismisses the spell (a standard action). At that point, the enemy's no longer benefiting from the spell, and the PCs are wont to grind the villain into lunchmeat. If a PC uses the spell, it negates the major enemy's entire turn, still leaving the PC's 3–5 allies to continue the assault.I've found PCs often get around this limitation further by using the conjuration the conjuration (teleportation) subschool's shift ability to pop out as a swift action, though that still has to wait a round thanks to not having a swift action the round after using an immediate action. Nonetheless, it further enhances the spell's effectiveness. Thanks to Occult Adventures, we now have several more immediate action defense benchmarks against which to compare emergency force sphere, and nothing can scale so effectively as a sphere that few enemies in the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild can overcome.
I personally agree with John's statements, Emergency Force Sphere is one of the rare abilities which is easily abusable by the PCs, but provides little to no benefit to NPCs. It allows Wizards, Sorcerers, and Arcanists a "get out of jail free card" which allows them to completely ignore any defensive weakness they may have. Under ideal conditions, where it requires a standard to dismiss or another 4th level spell to escape, the spell is powerful, but not gamebreaking. However, when combined with the free/move action teleportation abilities that John mentioned, the downsides become negligible, while the upsides remain as strong as ever.
For these reasons, I would like to propose the removal of Emergency Force Sphere from the Additional Resources list.
|
|
I think the fundamental assumption that John made in his comment misses out on the reality of 7+ wizards - most of the time, when someone is using EFS, they are not trapping themselves because they're flying or otherwise position the EFS such that it doesn't trap them to the square. Sometimes, you can block hallways because the spell does not specify that the hemisphere must connect to a floor or wall of some sort. By far, flying is the most blatant way to get around the problem as you can easily 5' float past the edge.
Another consideration is that the duration allows you to willingly trap yourself to allow yourself the opportunity to buff and "reset" the fight. This would be the best case scenario for a BBEG using the spell. While John mentions the possibility of action economy loss, the reality is that, in many situations where the spell is used, a PC using the spell eats an entire round of NPC action, while the NPC wastes multiple PC actions and allows for a readied action on shield breaking, which is significantly more advantageous for the NPC.
My main problem is that the spell is a Get Out Of Jail Practically Free card. Being able to use an immediate action against a foe that the party is reasonably unaware of as they entering an existing combat (invisible or stealthed characters coming in on round 2+, for example) seems unreasonable to me. It also negates any build weaknesses you might have simply by allowing you to block Line of Effect. Other options that would allow similar tricks require significantly more investment and are far more limited in nature, such as Ray Shield (minimum level 10 Fighter for one of the pre-requisites, as well as 3 additional feats), or are banned, such as Smash from the Air. Both of these would allow deflecting spells with attack rolls, which is to say not the majority of spells. A 4th level spell slot is not a significant investment for this level of defense.
I would be comfortable with a campaign errata requiring a seal (preventing a lot of the disruptive blockage options as well as aerial use), a directional requirement (i.e. only above you) or simply a campaign ban.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
Yeah, I think it's too good to keep, for the reasons given upthread. I hadn't even considered the potential shenanigans with casting it from flying position.
Anecdote: the only time I saw this spell in action it turned out the enemies had a burrow speed and the wizard had to beat a hasty escape using dimension door.
|
I think it be better as a swift action. It would remain a solid defensive option (it is a 4th level spell after all) but you would have to plan around it instead of blocking everything that happens at you immediately.
That being said for andreww's example the spell that bothers me more is possession. What a ridiculous spell.
Edit: I don't agree that the spell is worthless to NPCs so much as no writer can ever justify using such an obscure resource when designing their scenario. This is compounded by the fact nobody writes 'real' wizards in the first place to even cast it.
Also I'm gonna just list it here since people feel like talking about OP magic for once; how are persistent and dazing spell still legal? I was shocked when I saw a npc with persistent for the first time but I'm sure never giving them dazing is an unspoken rule. I can just imagine the reviews for a scenario if a party got dazing anything to the face.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I think the problem here is the free/swift action teleports.
I too think this is the real problem. It negates a huge number of lockdown options and obstacles like walls, grapples, cages swallow-wholes, and built-in limitations to spells like EFS. Cast invis and you're a far superior infiltrator than any rogue. It's pretty much freedom of movement on tap and then some.
As for emergency force sphere, it is better defensively than resilient sphere, but for the caster only. When you need to protect an NPC or your ally who is about to get munched on, not so much. And if EFS is your primary defence as a caster, you will probably find yourself getting whittled out of 4th level spells very quickly.
Improved invisibility does the job better as a defensive spell alot of the time. The fight against -redacted- at the end of serpents rise is a good example of how annoying a canny invisible caster can be. Fact that spells like faerie fire, giltterdust and invis purge have become staples in the adventuring spellcaster's arsenal is indicative of this. And if a party does not have a spellcaster with such detection when needed, things get ugly real quick.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Using emergency force sphere to negate a full attack is neat, but it's not living up to the spell's full potential. (Also, that aspect is hilariously ineffective when the caster's flying. Fun fact.) Using it to block a doorway or a trample lane or even a rock slide is way more interesting and effective.
Or there's my personal favorite use: combining it with call the void to trap casters in a bubble of vacuum and teeth and claws.
Regardless, for a fourth level spell, none of these uses are out of line. Compared to, say, dimension door or charm monster, emergency force sphere is pretty much what you should expect.
|
|
That npc can't use that spell before certain other actions according to his tactics. I'm sure there is time to cast mist before getting yourself ruined especially when characters who would use such a spell tend to favor using it right away.
It doesn't help his case that he can't ever win init anyway.. but what NPC can?
|
Using emergency force sphere to negate a full attack is neat, but it's not living up to the spell's full potential.It's less about negating full attacks (any arcane caster with any sense wont be taking any of those) and more about automatically avoiding the empowered maximised Horrid Wilting because you broke line of effect.
** spoiler omitted **
It's a nifty spell, and I can understand why it frustrates some GMs. I don't personally think it's among the most broken things in the game or worthy of banning. I wouldn't feel a strong need to fight it being banned either. It is very powerful, for sure.
|
|
I guess it help if I included my opinion on the actual spell at least; I wouldn't care if it stayed or was banned. I get to at least pretend the NPC is scary and the PCs are fighting for their lives with EFS. I can't say the same about many many other spells / metamagics.
In the end the PCs feel like they had a combat and are happy they didn't die while I at least DID something at all. When EFS was used most recently the NPC I was running cast black tentacles on them which explicitly rises from the floor (which is open). It is a lot more interesting back and forth than any of the numerous ways of instantly defeating said NPC.
Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne
|
Like many powers, I see EFS abused most frequently by people who forget the rules. No, you can't Dim Door in front of the baddy and block his attacks with EFS because Dim Door prevents you from taking actions until your next turn. No, you can't use EFS to protect you from the trap because you are still flat-footed and can't take any actions.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One of my issues is that it obviates saving throws. The vague wording of Immediate Actions allows for abusive parsing for the spell - I could try to get into semantic tricks with players to screw with it, but I'd rather not get into THAT fight.
GM: "NPC is casting a spell."
Player 1: "Spellcraft <bighuge> to identify."
GM: <Insert terrible single target spell>
Player 1: "I cast EFS."
GM: "OK, I choose to target Player 2 since I see your EFS go up and you select targets at the end of spellcasting."
I see that scenario as technically legal, but absolutely adversarial and in violation of DBAJ.
|
Venture-Captain, Germany–Hannover
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
People, please use spoiler tags and do not discuss tactics on certain encounters in scenarios here please.
Thank you.
And could someone please link to what spawned this discussion?
@trollbill: There´s certain feats allowing to do exactly that and i bet most people using dimension door often take them.
|
|
One of my issues is that it obviates saving throws. The vague wording of Immediate Actions allows for abusive parsing for the spell - I could try to get into semantic tricks with players to screw with it, but I'd rather not get into THAT fight.
GM: "NPC is casting a spell."
Player 1: "Spellcraft <bighuge> to identify."
GM: <Insert terrible single target spell>
Player 1: "I cast EFS."
GM: "OK, I choose to target Player 2 since I see your EFS go up and you select targets at the end of spellcasting."I see that scenario as technically legal, but absolutely adversarial and in violation of DBAJ.
This actually doesn't help the 'ban EFS' motion, since rather than negating an enemy spell, you simply redirect it you one of your allies and take yourself out of the fight for a round (barring swift/move action DD-effects, which should arguably end your turn after use anyway if they act like DD).
Actually, I propose that GMs who see EFS as broken try to remember that the teleportation school power acts like DD and so ends the player's turn upon use. Or alternatively just move to ban that subschool outright. No other class allows any form of teleport-like effect from level 1, much less as a swift action...
|
|
I think I'm completely missing what makes that being a jerk. That is just how spell casting works.
You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.
For those that need a quick reference. I certainly did and it makes a much more compelling reason to not ban the spell for me.
|
Illiest my friend I hope you are doing well.
I for one hope that Emergency Force Shield is not removed. Yes my arcane spell casters make use of it. I felt it was such a useful spell that my Magus used an Arcana Spell blending, I believe, to gain access to this spell.
Illiest my freind, now I have a question:
There was a moment where, If memory serves an opponent cast a fire ball at Mr Mustache's mystic theurge. Mr Mustache's mystic theurge cast Emergency Force Field to protect himself from the blast. I believe Mr Mustache's mystic theurge had made the spellcraft check to ID the spell but I will admit my memory is fuzzy after 2/12 years.
I remember you ruled that since the opponent had completed his spell, EMF would go off after the blast. While Mr Mustache disagreed with your ruling, he didn't argue it and the game continued.
I will admit I agreed with Mr. Mustache, but I kept quiet because, I guess like our friend, I felt you were the GM for the game and that was your ruling.
your friend Myles
|
|
It's a 4th level spell. It shares the same spot as Black Tentacles, Stoneskin, Ward Shield, Dimension Door, Acid Pit, Greater Invisibility, Animate Dead, Stone Shape and Globe of Lesser Invulnerability.
It doesn't seem too out of whack. Especially since it will either eat a turn(standard action to deal with the fact you are stuck in the hemi-sphere) or use a teleportation ability(which will again leave them vulnerable). It allows you to prevent one big attack or take yourself out of a combat for a turn.
It is powerful, no doubt. But so is Black Tentacles or greater invisibility. Even Ward Shield is pretty powerful considering you can apply it to anyone's shield.
Remember... it works like a wall of force...
"Breath weapons and spells cannot pass through a wall of force in either direction, although dimension door, teleport, and similar effects can bypass the barrier. It blocks ethereal creatures as well as material ones (though ethereal creatures can usually circumvent the wall by going around it, through material floors and ceilings). Gaze attacks can operate through a wall of force."
It does not protect against ethereal creatures(they go under), attacks the character is unaware of(as they can not use their immediate action if they don't know to), gaze attacks, gas attacks(if the floor is not level) or a burrowing creature. And I would love to see someone cast a pit spell at someone and then have them EFS. No place to reflex to should be an auto-fail.
It is best against blaster casters, enchanters and any melee type that doesn't carry adamantine(most creatures and almost all NPCs).
But they can only do it once per 4th level slot and it provides no attack during the action and costs actions to be able to provide attack actions.
Except for the possession example... it does work since it is not a straight line necessarily. So the spell can go into the ground and back up to hit the target. But that's an issue with the possession spell not EFS. You can achieve the same thing with clairvoyance and possession. It also means the enemy can use the same ability against you.
|
|
One of my issues is that it obviates saving throws. The vague wording of Immediate Actions allows for abusive parsing for the spell - I could try to get into semantic tricks with players to screw with it, but I'd rather not get into THAT fight.
GM: "NPC is casting a spell."
Player 1: "Spellcraft <bighuge> to identify."
GM: <Insert terrible single target spell>
Player 1: "I cast EFS."
GM: "OK, I choose to target Player 2 since I see your EFS go up and you select targets at the end of spellcasting."I see that scenario as technically legal, but absolutely adversarial and in violation of DBAJ.
Absolutely nothing jerkish about it. You explicitly do not pick the target of the spell until you're done casting. Fireball may be the only spell i can think of where there's time in between you're done casting and you're hit with the spell.
|
|
I think I'm completely missing what makes that being a jerk. That is just how spell casting works.
You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.For those that need a quick reference. I certainly did and it makes a much more compelling reason to not ban the spell for me.
By baiting people into semantic arguments at the table. It creates an adversarial "so, who is NPC targeting?" vibe at the table and is effectively a metagaming "solution" to the problem by playing the system instead of the game. You're trying to trick the player instead of the character at that point. I think that is a jerk move.
The immediate action definition is so vague that you could theoretically interrupt any stage of the casting with it. Making players try to read your mind about how you're going to word things is a good way to hurt feelings when you trick them.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Absolutely nothing jerkish about it. You explicitly do not pick the target of the spell until you're done casting. Fireball may be the only spell i can think of where there's time in between you're done casting and you're hit with the spell.One of my issues is that it obviates saving throws. The vague wording of Immediate Actions allows for abusive parsing for the spell - I could try to get into semantic tricks with players to screw with it, but I'd rather not get into THAT fight.
GM: "NPC is casting a spell."
Player 1: "Spellcraft <bighuge> to identify."
GM: <Insert terrible single target spell>
Player 1: "I cast EFS."
GM: "OK, I choose to target Player 2 since I see your EFS go up and you select targets at the end of spellcasting."I see that scenario as technically legal, but absolutely adversarial and in violation of DBAJ.
Hmm... well, remember you are playing with how immediate actions work.
If the ruling for EFS is that you can not cast it until they cast their spell then someone casting Feather fall can not be saved if they are falling already. As you have to wait for the whole action of <you falling/spell flying towards you> to complete before you can use your immediate action.
But if you rule that the immediate action actually interrupts what it is being used against then feather fall functions and EFS functions against spells cast, and the enemy can choose a new target. But that also means an offensive immediate action can interrupt spell casting.
The third option is it happens after the even it is used against, but before it completes. So, for featherfall you can cast it as you are falling. And for EFS you can cast it as the spell is heading towards you. This also allows both immediate actions to function, it does prevent the enemy to choose a new target vs EFS but it also prevents any offensive immediate action from being able to counter spell casting or take someone down before they attack you.
The final option is to do what some immediate actions have already done. Alter how immediate actions work for that ability. I say add a clause to EFS that it follows one of the three options I outlined despite how immediate actions would normally function.
Which, honestly, immediate actions are poorly described already so it could really use the extra description.
|
|
I think I'm completely missing what makes that being a jerk. That is just how spell casting works.
You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.For those that need a quick reference. I certainly did and it makes a much more compelling reason to not ban the spell for me.By baiting people into semantic arguments at the table. It creates an adversarial "so, who is NPC targeting?" vibe at the table and is effectively a metagaming "solution" to the problem by playing the system instead of the game. You're trying to trick the player instead of the character at that point. I think that is a jerk move.
The immediate action definition is so vague that you could theoretically interrupt any stage of the casting with it. Making players try to read your mind about how you're going to word things is a good way to hurt feelings when you trick them.
Simple enough, tell them how the immediate action will work instead of springing it on them. They say "I'd like to EFS", the GM then says "Here is how that series of events would work out. You can choose to not EFS and I will allow you to trade out the spell on your prepared list if you are dissatisfied with how it will function"
Remember, targeting happens at the end of casting. You shouldn't tell the players who the spell is targeting before it hits them as that would not be something the character could know.
So I'm not sure how following the rules of casting is the GM being adversarial at the point?
GM "So and so is casting"
Player A "I choose to react. I cast EFS"
GM "Okay. Player B, roll me a will save"
|
|
Of course you can cast it while they are casting the spell. It and feather fall both work fine.
The enemy doesn't choose a new target because they never chose one in the first place. When the spell has taken effect the target is chosen. There is likely some confusion here because most table GMs probably say "He's targeting you with a spell" while casting it but this isn't actually how the rules work. The PCs never know who is the target of a spell before it finishes.
At any time after the spell has taken effect the casting of EFS is fairly pointless.
|
|
Of course you can cast it while they are casting the spell. It and feather fall both work fine.
The enemy doesn't choose a new target because they never chose one in the first place. When the spell has taken effect the target is chosen. There is likely some confusion here because most table GMs probably say "He's targeting you with a spell" while casting it but this isn't actually how the rules work. The PCs never know who is the target of a spell before it finishes.
At any time after the spell has taken effect the casting of EFS is fairly pointless.
They do choose a target. Or, more to say, the character would have an intended target as they start casting. That is not mechanical, but roleplay. Mechanically, they choose a target at the end of casting. So, yes, it is fair to say they can change target.
And EFS is not pointless after the spell takes effect. It prevents the next spell. That is like saying resilient sphere is pointless as a defense spell.
|
|
If the ruling for EFS is that you can not cast it until they cast their spell then someone casting Feather fall can not be saved if they are falling already. As you have to wait for the whole action of <you falling/spell flying towards you> to complete before you can use your immediate action.
That does not follow at all. Someone falling 500 feet moves through every square, thats 100 individual, trackable units of time to act in. The time in between a spell being finished and a spell taking effect? Not so much. They're arguably the same thing.
|
|
It doesn't seem too out of whack. Especially since it will either eat a turn(standard action to deal with the fact you are stuck in the hemi-sphere) or use a teleportation ability(which will again leave them vulnerable). It allows you to prevent one big attack or take yourself out of a combat for a turn.
But the thing is, it will never completely trap you, unless you want it to; because you can set the hemisphere in whatever direction you desire.
So, for example, if Barbarian Beth is up next to Willy Wizard and declares a full-attack against him, Willy can use EFS to create a hemispherical dome centered on the axis facing Beth. Negating her full-attack, and leaving himself plenty of space to step outside the sphere next turn.
The same principle works whether Willy is fighting Avery Archer, Samuel Sorcerer, or Millie Mesmerist. He can still use the dome to block line of effect for ALL of their abilities, without forcing putting himself in any kind of uncomfortable position. Heck, he can even do so while flying.
It prevents any big attack you choose, while providing negligible downsides.
It is powerful, no doubt. But so is Black Tentacles or greater invisibility. Even Ward Shield is pretty powerful considering you can apply it to anyone's shield.
All of those spells are powerful, but none of them (bar invisibility which is easily countered) allow you to negate all effects coming from a specific direction for 1 round per level. It's a smaller Wall of Force, that can be cast as an immediate.
It does not protect against ethereal creatures(they go under) ... gaze attacks, gas attacks(if the floor is not level) or a burrowing creature. And I would love to see someone cast a pit spell at someone and then have them EFS. No place to reflex to should be an auto-fail.
I'm curious, when was the last time you saw any of those things in a PFS scenario? In a homegame, EFS can be countered if you're willing to put in the time and effort; I had the misfortune of Co-GMing a game with three separate casters abusing the spell, it can be done. However in a game like PFS, where the scenarios are pre-written and the GM has little flexibility in how to adapt to the party's tactics, EFS throws too much of a spanner in the works.
It is best against blaster casters, enchanters and any melee type that doesn't carry adamantine(most creatures and almost all NPCs).
I would amend that to say "it's best against anyone who relies on line of effect for their abilities."
Also, adamantine? Are you havin' a giggle mate? Have you looked at the stats on the Sphere? Hardness 20 (adamantine only bypasses Hardness 10), and 10 HP/CL, that's a minimum of 70 HP and Hardness 20. There's very few builds that can punch through that kind of protection.But they can only do it once per 4th level slot and it provides no attack during the action and costs actions to be able to provide attack actions.
Demonstrably untrue, as shown above.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
But this might also means that there is also a mechanical limitation to the spell as well that alot of GMs are not enforcing.
The correct order of events when an enemy casts a spell I reckon should be:
GM: X is casting a spell, any spellcraft checks?
P1: Me. I get a 32
GM: He is casting Y. Are you going to respond.
P1: He might be targeting me...
GM: Yes he might, or he might not. Last call for immediate actions.
Either:
P1: I cast EFS.
GM: Yeah, well, you weren't the target. P2, fort save please.
Or:
P1: There's 5 of us, so a 1 in 5 chance he's gonna target me. I'll risk it.
GM: Yeah about that... you are the target. Fort save please.
|
|
Of course you can cast it while they are casting the spell. It and feather fall both work fine.
The enemy doesn't choose a new target because they never chose one in the first place. When the spell has taken effect the target is chosen. There is likely some confusion here because most table GMs probably say "He's targeting you with a spell" while casting it but this isn't actually how the rules work. The PCs never know who is the target of a spell before it finishes.
At any time after the spell has taken effect the casting of EFS is fairly pointless.
They do choose a target. Or, more to say, the character would have an intended target as they start casting. That is not mechanical, but roleplay. Mechanically, they choose a target at the end of casting. So, yes, it is fair to say they can change target.
And EFS is not pointless after the spell takes effect. It prevents the next spell. That is like saying resilient sphere is pointless as a defense spell.
So they don't actually choose a target you just are adding a role playing element.
It is pointless. It is an immediate action spell. There is no reason to prevent the next spell any sooner than when something is going to happen to you. It also didn't help you if you got hit by the spell already. So casting it after you got hit but before anything else happens and trapping yourself in the process is pretty high on the pointless list.
|
|
If the ruling for EFS is that you can not cast it until they cast their spell then someone casting Feather fall can not be saved if they are falling already. As you have to wait for the whole action of <you falling/spell flying towards you> to complete before you can use your immediate action.That does not follow at all. Someone falling 500 feet moves through every square, thats 100 individual, trackable units of time to act in. The time in between a spell being finished and a spell taking effect? Not so much. They're arguably the same thing.
And what if you only fall 50 feet? And the fireball has to travel 100 feet?
The game is abstract about the time for this very reason.
It all takes less than an action. Falling(up to a [un]certain distance) and a spell flying toward you. The system works on a <initiate action> <resolve action> <initiate action> basis. Sometimes you can react and resolve your action before theirs resolves.
You are stepping out of the abstraction to put your idea of reality into the game. Not really a bad idea sometimes. But that is what you are doing. And not taking all the variables into the equation, I might add.
|
|
Of course you can cast it while they are casting the spell. It and feather fall both work fine.
The enemy doesn't choose a new target because they never chose one in the first place. When the spell has taken effect the target is chosen. There is likely some confusion here because most table GMs probably say "He's targeting you with a spell" while casting it but this isn't actually how the rules work. The PCs never know who is the target of a spell before it finishes.
At any time after the spell has taken effect the casting of EFS is fairly pointless.
They do choose a target. Or, more to say, the character would have an intended target as they start casting. That is not mechanical, but roleplay. Mechanically, they choose a target at the end of casting. So, yes, it is fair to say they can change target.
And EFS is not pointless after the spell takes effect. It prevents the next spell. That is like saying resilient sphere is pointless as a defense spell.
So they don't actually choose a target you just are adding a role playing element.
It is pointless. It is an immediate action spell. There is no reason to prevent the next spell any sooner than when something is going to happen to you. It also didn't help you if you got hit by the spell already. So casting it after you got hit but before anything else happens and trapping yourself in the process is pretty high on the pointless list.
Yes... because the first thing I do after being hit with a fireball is think... hey, let's not protect myself against the next one! Pointless... heh.
Anyway, yes, mechanically speaking they have not chosen a target for the spell. Maybe the caster looks at you while casting? That could mean the GM is telling you they are planning on targeting you. Or he could say they are not looking at anyone. But a caster who is casting a spell typically knows where he intends that effect to be placed. I'm not adding that. The GM has picked an intended target for that spell as part of the decision making process of that character.
How many wizards have you played that thought
"Gee, I feel like casting charm person. I hope someone walks into my view that I'd like to target while I'm casting it!"
|
|
Just so we're not splitting hairs whilst agreeing on the general hairstyle, and enemy's intentions notwithstanding, are we all agreeing that the decision to cast EFS should be made whilst enemy is casting the spell, which thus leaves the option open for the enemy caster to simply choose another target when he completes the spell? Or is a contrary view being proposed?
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No you definitely can not. It is a hemispherical DOME.A dome that's been rotated 90 degrees is still a dome.
A hemisphere rotated 90 degrees is not a dome. A dome is a roof or ceiling. There is a reason the spell included the term 'hemispherical dome' instead of 'hemisphere'.
|
|
A hemisphere rotated 90 degrees is not a dome. A dome is a roof or ceiling. There is a reason the spell included the term 'hemispherical dome' instead of 'hemisphere'.
Well, first off I disagree with your definition.
Secondly, (by your logic) a wall that's been rotated 90 degrees and placed over a pit isn't a wall, it's a bridge. But I don't see anyone clamoring to prevent Wall of Force from being used in such a way
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just so we're not splitting hairs whilst agreeing on the general hairstyle, and enemy's intentions notwithstanding, are we all agreeing that the decision to cast EFS should be made whilst enemy is casting the spell, which thus leaves the option open for the enemy caster to simply choose another target when he completes the spell? Or is a contrary view being proposed?
Agreed with using EFS during the casting. The rules are clear about when that decision is actually made even if myself and others weren't properly describing this previously.
Ya know, this kind of splitting hairs about immediate actions, is a great argument for just saving everyone the hassle by removing the problem...
I hear ya... let's ban immediate actions.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A hemisphere rotated 90 degrees is not a dome. A dome is a roof or ceiling. There is a reason the spell included the term 'hemispherical dome' instead of 'hemisphere'.Well, first off I disagree with your definition.
Secondly, (by your logic) a wall that's been rotated 90 degrees and placed over a pit isn't a wall, it's a bridge. But I don't see anyone clamoring to prevent Wall of Force from being used in such a way
Um...I'm sorry what? I would absolutely object to that.
The caster can form the wall into a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10-foot square per level.
Edit: This is blood money all over again. Nobody knew how that spell worked either and there were tons of misconceptions. There was even threads about its proper use in the past; we have known for a long time wands of blood money don't work quite as well as you would hope and people still weren't clear on this when we had to cover it again in the recent thread.
|
|
A hemisphere rotated 90 degrees is not a dome. A dome is a roof or ceiling. There is a reason the spell included the term 'hemispherical dome' instead of 'hemisphere'.Well, first off I disagree with your definition.
Secondly, (by your logic) a wall that's been rotated 90 degrees and placed over a pit isn't a wall, it's a bridge. But I don't see anyone clamoring to prevent Wall of Force from being used in such a way
You disagree with the actual definition of the word, then. A dome is the other half of a bowl.
And, the spell wall of force already makes that argument.
"The caster can form the wall into a flat, vertical plane whose area is up to one 10-foot square per level. The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails."