Necromantic Servant - How?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I don't usually play necromantic characters, or summoners, so excuse me if im asking stupid questions.

Quote:

Necromantic Servant (Sp)

As a standard action, you can expend 1 point of mental focus to raise a single human skeleton or human zombie from the ground to serve you for 10 minutes per occultist level you possess or until it is destroyed, whichever comes first. This servant has a number of hit points equal to 1/2 your maximum hit point total (not adjusted for temporary hit points or other temporary increases). It also uses your base attack bonus and gains a bonus on damage rolls equal to 1/2 your occultist level.

OK, so:

1) Do they wield weapons/armor?
2) Can I give them weapons/armor?
3) If so what action is it to give them a weapon?
4) Do they have proficiency to use weapons/armor?
5) I'm assuming there's stats for them, can someone link them?
6) Are they actually any good/useful?

General advice/suggestions are appreciated too :)

See questions 7 & 8 in next post.


3) probably the same actions are putting it on yourself, with a standard action on top for handing it over when they are close. So it is not likely something you can do on a whim, and instead you should take advantage of that 10 min/level.

4) Very difficult to say, since these just appear from nowhere. The template says you keep the weapon proficiencies of the base creature...but is there a base creature? You at least keep the claws, and your damage is more from just getting attacks in rather than from stats and power attack, so the claws might work fine. Armor? ...eh, get 0 ACP, and anything can wear anything.

5) Just looking at the bestiary examples, you are probably stuck with the 15/14/-/-/10/14 spread.

6) Probably. They make decent enough meat shields (Despite the lack of meat), particularly since they have familiar levels of health. They get bonuses to damage equal to 1/2 level (that lets you get decent damage without power attack or its penalties, so you hit well enough). You could probably use them for basic in battle stuff like you would an unseen servant, and they could possibly take a tower shield to reshape the battle field.


7) Am i correct in assuming i use Zombie and Skeleton for this ability?
8) At level 1, what would you say is better, a skeleton, a zombie, or a familiar from the Soulbound Puppet focus power?

The Exchange

The only real advantage of a vanilla zombie over a vanilla skeleton is that the zombie has more hit points - the skeleton is better at everything else. This ability seems to switch out the hit points anyway, so skeleton would seem like a no-brainer, unless I'm missing something?


ProfPotts wrote:
The only real advantage of a vanilla zombie over a vanilla skeleton is that the zombie has more hit points - the skeleton is better at everything else. This ability seems to switch out the hit points anyway, so skeleton would seem like a no-brainer, unless I'm missing something?

You're great at half answering questions, but thanks for the responses anyway :D

So what about that soulbound puppet? If nothing else it seems marginally less evil to create a magical familiar out of bones than it is to resurrect somebodies long dead husband to do your bidding...

The Exchange

LOL - I have no idea what a 'Soulbound Puppet focus power is' (or even which book it's from) I'm afraid... but I have read the Bestiary... we answer what we can... ;)


ProfPotts wrote:
LOL - I have no idea what a 'Soulbound Puppet focus power is' (or even which book it's from) I'm afraid... but I have read the Bestiary... we answer what we can... ;)

Oh, its a familiar that gets created whenever you use the focus power, i think it has the same duration and cost as the necromantic servant mentioned here. So what would you use, a disposable familiar, or an undead?


Having played a necrocultist to level 4 now:

1) I've always played as if they emerge with no weapons or armor, just their natural attacks.
2) I've played and have multiple GMs be fine with (PFS) the answer be 'yes'. Thus, my physically weak elf hand out his longsword and armored coat to them frequently.
3)As lemeres said, as long as it would take you. Hence learn to love Armored Coat.

6/8) Ehhh. They're fine, and scale somewhat in HP, attack, and damage, but they're far from the utility on say a summoner. that said, they also last for ages so so far I've been able to still find use for them.

As my goal is for a combat minion, I found the Servent far more useful than the familiar Puppet. For my PC at least the Divination arcane eye power will soon take place of his scouting needs, and I've never found much use for familiars beyond that personally. In terms of option choice, I am not sure I have ever made a zombie instead of a skeleton, but it something to keep the stats of in case of DR/bludgeoning I suppose.


Yeah, thats what most people use familiars for. But the occultist getting a disposable familiar means you dont care if it dies in combat. I just wondered how effective it would be, especially once you slap mauler archetype on it (which i've checked, is fine).

I'd just like to know the how the dpr would stack up against eachother, nevermind the fact the familiar can fly etc.


I use this power in PFS a lot.

1) Do they wield weapons/armor?
They spawn as the Bestiary entries. The Zombie doesn't have anything, the Skeleton has a broken scimitar and chain shirt.

2) Can I give them weapons/armor?
For the Zombie no, for the Skeleton yes. See answer 4 for more information.

3) If so what action is it to give them a weapon?
It isn't really clearly defined. Some GMs have ruled it's a move action for either the giver or the taker, some have ruled it's free. At least, in my experience.

4) Do they have proficiency to use weapons/armor?
Undead are proficient with the weapons and armour they're raised with (and if armour, also shield proficiency). Zombie isn't proficient with anything, Skeleton light armour and shields, and scimitars. You can throw mithral medium armour to them that reduces the armour check penalty to 0 without incurring penalties. Your best bet is mithral kikko armour.

5) I'm assuming there's stats for them, can someone link them?
As said before, standard Bestiary entires. Skeleton and Zombie.

6) Are they actually any good/useful?
Zombie not so much, Skeleton moderately. Their damage output isn't stellar, but it is an extra body on the field, and it's an increase in potential damage output. Don't rely on it, though. I play a support character with this power, just so I can contribute somewhat in combat.
It's a hassle to raise things mid-combat, so I usually try to raise them beforehand. With that duration, it's pretty reasonable to have one around almost always when you're expecting trouble, especially in dungeons. At level 5, you can regenerate them as an immediate action, making them very hard to kill, even with their reduced HP. Things get really silly once you carry a Keen scimitar around. It also takes your BAB, so it can eventually get iterative attacks. Its saves are horrendous though, and although it's immune to a lot of things, it will save every Reflex save possible. At later levels, when DR/Adamantine or DR/Magic is more common, it's important to kit your skeleton out with it ASAP, as it'll be worthless otherwise, so summon it before combat if you don't want to waste turns. It's also possible to just focus on AC, but it'll never be stellar. He's proficient with light, but if you don't care about him attacking, give him medium or even heavy armour and kit him out with a tower shield. It'll block attacks all day long, since you can heal it instantly. It'll eat into your Focus though. Also, it's a hassle to carry the armour around when he's not raised, though. If your enemies don't have the right DR (most humanoids only have one type of weapon on them), Skeletons can tank hits all day long, as most enemies tend to carry slashing weapons, and it has DR/Bludgeoning.

7) Am i correct in assuming i use Zombie and Skeleton for this ability?
Yes, exactly.

8) At level 1, what would you say is better, a skeleton, a zombie, or a familiar from the Soulbound Puppet focus power?
Depends on what you want. Skeleton is almost always better than a Zombie, as the latter is staggered and has crap attacks/AC, but it's nice if you're facing something that can't pierce its DR. Puppet is nice for exploration and want to use situational bonuses ("I'm going to talk to some guards? Let me summon a skeletal pig." or "I need to cross that river? Let me summon a platypus"), but I don't think it's viable in-combat. Not sure if you can slap archetypes on them, because an expendable Mauler familiar could be nice.
Bottom line: if you want some combat capability with a pseudo-animal companion, get a Skeleton. If you want some utility, get the Puppet.


Thanks QC for the comprehensive answer! I think i'll pick up the puppet at 1st level, seems more utility based and can probably still hold its own a little in combat (more when it hits 3rd), plus, as I said earlier, it seems someone less evil than resurrecting dead people :)


Yeah, I get some weird looks when I'm raising skeletons. I usually flavour it as "letting them out to play," to give the restless spirits some way to vent. They're still under your control, so most people are okay with it, but the more religious characters usually balk at it. I've had three Paladins all accept me in varying degrees, but they never were actually against me raising them.

Some concerns though, as they're not spelled out:
- There isn't any range specified on the raising aspect. The text says you actually raise it from the ground, so do you pull it from the earth, or sort of summon it into being? Or, in game terms, is its range touch (like Animate Dead), or more like a Summon spell (close range)?
- How many can I have active at the same time? The clause at level 13 seems to be specifically for that ability, but sometimes you really need a second body on the field.
- Do you need actual earth and/or skeletal remains? Some GMs have ruled I can only do it when I'm near actual earth, as I need to raise it from the loose ground, so basically no stone caverns, ships, or second floors, while other GMs say I conjure them from the air.
- How much control do you have over the thing? Skeletons and zombies don't have a language, so technically you can't communicate with them, but they're your servants, so you somehow need to tell them what to do. Some people have said communication is telepathic, some say regular language is needed, some have said I needed Necril.
- In a similar vein, how smart are they? They're capable of understanding me, so technically they can do anything I tell them to (such as flank and trip), but what about more complex issues? Do I need to hold their hand every time I issue a command (INT of 0), or are they smart enough for tactics? Regular Skeletons also have some form of intelligence, and the ones I face tend to use things like flanking, so I'd say they're capable of using independent thought.

Better talk these through with your GM, so you both know how to handle these situations and don't be surprised when your GM suddenly disallows a certain weapon.

Taking the familiar seems fair. I don't have the power so I can't judge for myself, but I think it's reasonable. The pig is still a decent body and while the Skeleton has more attacks (make it drop the scimitar and let it full attack with their claws!), I'd say at the early levels they're a close match. Again, not sure if you can build your own familiar, including archetypes every single time you summon them, or if you need to have a specific character sheet for them, but I see the appeal in making your own Sage familiar which just happens to have the exact skill ranks you need for a knowledge check.


Yeah I made a thread about it, my favorite response: "You have a familiar. Familiars can take archetypes. Nothing in Soulbound Puppet limits your familiar." makes a lot of sense and matches RAW.

Plus, choosing what your familiar comes out as every time (fox, dwarf caiman, owl) gives it a lot of flexibility!

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I usually flavour it as "letting them out to play," to give the restless spirits some way to vent.

^Love this, I'm going to use it if that's ok with you! (even if its not, im still going to use it. No honor among necromancers, MWUHAHAHAHAHA)


Go for it! I really didn't have a justifiable explanation for how (and why) I was raising skeletons left and right. This seemed like the least evil option. There's always that tinge of binding possibly unwilling souls to do your bidding, and with the power being as vaguely defined as it is, it's difficult to disprove it.


I quite like the idea that there are restless spirits everywhere in the world flying around through the planes, and you're just giving them something to possess to let off some steam so they can find peace :)

(this necromancer is turning out to be downright good!)

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