Best all rounder?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


From my limited time playing pathfinder I have noticed that there are three things you can do at the table. You can scout (ex: sneak onto a ship to steal the captain's log), you can talk and you can fight. Players who can only do one of the three tend to not have much to do. If you have magic then you can support all three. If you are a cha dump fighter, chances are all you can do is move and attack while more well rounded characters get to actually do more.

So what character is best at always being useful regardless of mission type? Where it won't matter if you are charming a noble or bashing an orc's face in?

The best that I could come up with is this:

Sacred Slayer, archer build with conversion inquisition. Take a trait that gives you disable device.

With this you can sneak well. You can speak well (replace cha with wis for talking skills). You can cast basic spells, fight recently and can disarm mundane traps. At lvl 8 you get trapfinding so you can disarm magical traps too.

In other words, a jack of all trades. A character that can come to a random party and fill whatever is missing. He can't beat a specialist, but he is always useful in something.

But I can't help but feel that I'm missing something. That another class can do this better. Any suggestions?


You'd be facing competition from Bards, who have easy group buffing and more offensive arcane-style spells than the inquisitor, from Summoners, who have a pet to do half their skill checks for them, and also have some offensive arcane spells, and from Investigators, who add a d6 to most skills, have alchemy, and can half their level to hit/damage.

There are some other classes that are vaguely in the running, such as the Druid and Wizard, but the Druid has less access to staple game-changers such as Invisibility or Summon Monster and is not all that good at Charisma skills (or having lots of skills in general) without an archetype, and the Wizard remains squishy and is completely reliant upon spells, meaning that once they're out of useful spells, they're done. Wizard skill ranks also take a while to mature up to Inquisitor levels, since most of a Wizard's ranks come from their INT modifier.


I vote Druid as well. Not a Charisma 'class', unless you wild shape into a kitten. Nobody has more charisma than a kitten.

Time for a fight. Change into whatever creature you want. Wait a while and you can even turn into a giant octopus on land and not sweat it thanks to how the polymorph rules now work. That's 8 tentacle attacks a round (and a bite...)

Need to sneak in somewhere? turn into something small like a mouse.

And this isn't even mentioning the spell casting.


Just to reiterate, I know that any all rounder can't compete with a specialist. For example...

This inquisitor can't beat a cleric when it comes to healing. But if there is no cleric, he can at least do something for the party.

This inquisitor can't tank like a paladin. But with a buckler, Dex16 and chain armor, he can stand in front of the party if it is needed.

This inquisitor can't fight like a fighter. But with S16, studied target and a mastercrafted weapon, he can at least swing a hammer halfway decently.

This inquisitor can't talk like a bard. But +6 to diplomacy at lvl 1 is better than nothing.

This inquisitor can't rip the opposition to shreds from a distance like a wizard. But with a bow he can at least tag someone before they close the distance.

This inquisitor can't sneak around, backstab or disarm traps as well as a rogue. But if there is no rogue around, he can at least fill in for that roll.

IE: Best at nothing. Decent at everything. So with random parties there is never an 'oh shyt, nobody is an xyz' moment.

-----------

That said, alternate ideas which I like so far:

Bard - Group buffing. Great face. Also skald looks like he can fight in combat decently. Can't sneak around...though a trait could get him that. Can't trapfind, but there are ways around that, right? If nothing else a half-orc skald with trap smashing could be a good backup incase nobody brings a rogue. Pretty funny too.

Druid - I like the shapechanging. Not sure exactly how that works, but it is like turning into a role that is missing, no?

Summoner - Not sold, because spell slot runs out. But I do like the idea of just summoning whatever the party needs. Didn't even think of that...


Bards can be sneaky. Any class can be sneaky if it is built to do so, but it might lose out somewhere else. Bards wear light armor so the Armor check penalty won't hold them back too much. Skill focus is also an option.


There are more "things" that you can do in Pathfinder than those three. But you got the basic idea right.

I'll nominate Wizard as the "best class" (as it's commonly called that). The only things he can't is probably Healing and BSF-work (though as people will no doubt mention, that's what summoning is for). And while also being able to do a lot of those "things", the Wizard is also amoung the best in many of those areas if not the best.


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So for an all rounder...how about something like this?

Race: Half-Orc
Class: Skald
Stats: Str16 Dex14 Con14 Int10 Wis10 Cha14
Feat: Trap Wrecker
Traits: Highlander (Stealth is class skill, +1 to skill/+2 in hills)
Armor Expert (-1 armor check penalty)

Give him a falchion, a mastercrafted darkwood composite longbow (+3) and a chain shirt. He can now sneak. He can do trapfinding...sorta. He breaks them. He can buff the party. He can hit someone on the head really well. He can shoot people too. He lacks healing...but makes up for it in buffing. And of course as a bard he can do any skill check needed.


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Grumbaki wrote:

F

The best that I could come up with is this:

Sacred Slayer, archer build with conversion inquisition. Take a trait that gives you disable device.

With this you can sneak well. You can speak well (replace cha with wis for talking skills). You can cast basic spells, fight recently and can disarm mundane traps. At lvl 8 you get trapfinding so you can disarm magical traps too.

I've been playing this exact build in PFS - a dwarf with the same choices you list.

It is great fun - you get to do lots as described above, feels able to get involved with just about everything going on & cover any party gaps. End up with good hp & saves too. The combination of religion and underworld associations gives great role-play potential too.


Glad to hear it Julian! What feats have you been taking and how would you advise building him?

Liberty's Edge

Many Classes can be a good all-rounder. The basic components are as follows:

1. Being either a 3/4 BAB Class
2: Having at least 4+Int Skill Points per level (or being Int based).
3: Having at least 6-level casting
4: Either being Cha-based or having a way to use the stat you are based on for social stuff.

So, the following Classes meet those criteria:

Bard, Skald, Oracle, Inquisitor (w/Conversion), Investigator (w/Student of Philosophy and ideally Empiricist), Vigilante (several Archetypes). Shamans who dabble in Lore also have a good incentive to up Charisma and can work.

If willing to skip out on the casting, several other Classes also become very viable, but those are the basic list. If willing to skimp on skills a little and go offensive casting in combat rather than physical stuff, Sorcerer is also a viable option.


Grumbaki wrote:

So for an all rounder...how about something like this?

Race: Half-Orc
Class: Skald
Stats: Str16 Dex14 Con14 Int10 Wis10 Cha14
Feat: Trap Wrecker
Traits: Highlander (Stealth is class skill, +1 to skill/+2 in hills)
Armor Expert (-1 armor check penalty)

Give him a falchion, a mastercrafted darkwood composite longbow (+3) and a chain shirt. He can now sneak. He can do trapfinding...sorta. He breaks them. He can buff the party. He can hit someone on the head really well. He can shoot people too. He lacks healing...but makes up for it in buffing. And of course as a bard he can do any skill check needed.

Might as well give him a mithral breastplate with that build.

Armor expert brings a mithral breastplate's armor check penalty to 0. ACP is the penalty applied to attack for nonproficient armor use. Ergo, 0 ACP=0 penalty to attack. And it counts as light for everything other than profiency. So anyone that can use light armor at all (ie- no wizards or monks) can use that trait to get a mithral breastplate.

It isn't too hard to get 'acceptable' AC due to that. Go ahead with a bard or skald with that.

Anyway, my vote for best all rounder (including a break down of 'fighting' to include melee, ranged, buffing, debuffing, and battlefield control) would be a melee alchemist. Mostly because it isn't hard to get bombs to cover debuffing and battlefield control, and dragons seriously fear that touch AC. Grab a decent melee weapon as a grenadier, use various buff spells or utility spells like invisibility, and have 4+ skill points as an INT class. I think that you have to purposefully choose to NOT have at least SOMETHING to do in any situation as a general melee alchemist.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

You're underselling bards.

They have the most skill points of all the classes.
They can do stealth. They get invisibility as a 2nd level spell.
they can heal. They get Cure Wounds at the same levels a cleric does, and while they don't get Restoration, they get Remove Curse and Break Enchantment. They work FINE on the healing side.
Bardsong turns them and the rest of the 3/4 crew into basically full BAB combatants...oh, and the rest of hte party, too. Combine with Heroism and Haste, and they turn the party into wrecking machines.
Traps is, as you said, a traits thing.
they can have decent direct damage spells if they need to, and all the save or die charm spells you could wish, as well as illusions for the clever.

Inquisitors are the alternative all-arounders to bards. They don't have quite the skill points or spell list, BUT...they get substantial bonuses on some skills that bards do not (particularly Intimidate). their ability to customize against a foe turns them from 3/4 to full force combatants on command, with Judgements supplementing that.

Investigators are the masters of skill checks. They are decent solo combatants and have some flexibility with their alchemy, but not quite as much as bards and Inqs have. Not so good on buffing/healing others, however.

Alchemists are like inqs, but only for themselves. Their group support tends to be much less, but they can array formidable buffs for themselves, and have a decent number of skill points.

Druids and clerics can both be good here, with the previous getting the nod for more skill points. Tiny size is great for Stealth, personal combat is not a problem, and both have access to their full spell lists, which means customizing loadouts for any particular need that is required. they do tend to need to buff more to mix it up in melee, however.

Both the ranger and the paladin can do the job, also, with ranger getting the nod for stealth, skill checks, and the paladin getting the nod for healing and group buffing. Both have spells and can change them day to day for special situations, although the list is more limited.

As for the summoner...eh. As others have noted, the eidolon is melee and extra skill points, and heck, they can summon creatures which have the skills and spells needed, if they want to.

==Aelryinth

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

A ranger with a trait for Diplomacy can be a very effective jack-of-all-trades and master-of-combat. Good skill points, scouting ability, 4-level spellcasting that opens up a lot of staple healing and utility spells for wand/scroll use.

Aelryinth is correct about bards, too, but also do not underestimate a bard built for melee or (especially) archery. They can more than adequately hold their own, especially at the upper levels with buffs like dance of 1000 cuts. And protip: past 7th level, smart bards use extended good hope instead of heroism because it also buffs damage and works for the whole party.

Inquisitor is an effective generalist right out of the box, and combat specialist when fully buffed--but they can't do that for every combat.


Aelryinth wrote:

You're underselling bards.

They have the most skill points of all the classes.
They can do stealth. They get invisibility as a 2nd level spell.
they can heal. They get Cure Wounds at the same levels a cleric does, and while they don't get Restoration, they get Remove Curse and Break Enchantment. They work FINE on the healing side.
Bardsong turns them and the rest of the 3/4 crew into basically full BAB combatants...oh, and the rest of hte party, too. Combine with Heroism and Haste, and they turn the party into wrecking machines.
Traps is, as you said, a traits thing.
they can have decent direct damage spells if they need to, and all the save or die charm spells you could wish, as well as illusions for the clever.

And if you don't want to be so buff focused (because logic of buff advantages doesn't mean it doesn't feel bad to hit 10 less than the fighter with your buffs)... well, dawnflower dervish can do rather interesting things to the class. You can't inspire courage on others... but the double bonuses on yourself put the bard straight into 'full BAB character' as an attack character.

Double inspire courage gives enough bonuses that they hit as reliably as a full BAB character with a further boost mechanic (Such as rage, or weapon training; +24 vs. +23). Once you get past the idea that you 'have to' use the dervish dance feat and its terrible 1 weapon/1 handed style... it can get down right frightening. Since it has damage that procs on every hit, an archer or TWF character is deadly. And you can throw arcane strike ontop of that for even mroe damage.

So having what is effectively a full BAB character with 6+ skill points, good will and reflex, and 6 spell levels... not a bad deal. Only slight down side is it is a bit fragile with d8 and light armor (...but I did bring up before how just about anyone can grab mithral breastplate, so that is a slight boost at least).


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Many Classes can be a good all-rounder. The basic components are as follows:

1. Being either a 3/4 BAB Class
2: Having at least 4+Int Skill Points per level (or being Int based).
3: Having at least 6-level casting
4: Either being Cha-based or having a way to use the stat you are based on for social stuff.

So, the following Classes meet those criteria:

Bard, Skald, Oracle, Inquisitor (w/Conversion), Investigator (w/Student of Philosophy and ideally Empiricist), Vigilante (several Archetypes). Shamans who dabble in Lore also have a good incentive to up Charisma and can work.

If willing to skip out on the casting, several other Classes also become very viable, but those are the basic list. If willing to skimp on skills a little and go offensive casting in combat rather than physical stuff, Sorcerer is also a viable option.

Ya know, I have been eyeing up casting Vigilantes a lot as all rounders. Good list of skills, some Cha based stuff, 6th level casting, and talents that make them strong in both combat and social situations. I feel like they might be my default answer to that question. Magical Child I know a lot of people have suggested as houseruling with the Wizard/Sorcerer list and if that was the rules (which I wanna petition for it to be) they would be my default answer for sure.


well my fighter, can do some of this stuff but it can be a bit complicated.

first, half-elf, why? because reflexive improvisation gives +2 to all untrained skills, second fighter, cuz you need feats (slayer can also work)

1st level Fighter feat- Weapon focus (whatever you want)
1st level regular feat- Fast talker, why? Because its a prerequisite for your 3rd level feat
2nd level fighter feat- power attack, rest of your fighter feats are up to you.
3rd- improvisation cuz +4 to all untrained skills now with reflexive improvisation
5th- deific obedience, I like naderi cuz +2 to all charisma skill checks
6th level, become an evangelist
7th level-improved improvisation, cuz +6 to all untrained skills is nice
10th level- well look at that, all untrained skills get +10

assuming minimal dumping (as in nothing below 8) you can auto assist most skill checks, hmm maybe i should try some bard.


Personally I think Investigators (particularly Strength-based Empiricists with the Student of Philosophy trait) are great all-rounders. They do take a while to get up and running, struggling with combat before getting Studied Combat & Quick Study, but do well beyond early levels.

Studied Combat, Mutagen and Infusions make them solid in combat.

8+Int skillpoints, Empiricist, Student of Philosophy and Inspiration mean they can cover Face, Knowledge and Scouting duties effectively. You might have to compromise on exactly what you want to specialise in, but not by too much. A wide range of Infusions just add to your Skillmonkey/Face ability.

They're also passable at condition removal and out-of-combat healing. Think of them as a Swiss Army Knife - not the perfect tool for one specific task, but a decent-to-good tool for many tasks.


Alchemists in general make pretty good allrounders, though they'll want to spend a trait or two on say clever wordplay or the like.


Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
Alchemists in general make pretty good allrounders, though they'll want to spend a trait or two on say clever wordplay or the like.

And Pragmatic Activator!


Deadmanwalking wrote:

Many Classes can be a good all-rounder. The basic components are as follows:

1. Being either a 3/4 BAB Class
2: Having at least 4+Int Skill Points per level (or being Int based).
3: Having at least 6-level casting
4: Either being Cha-based or having a way to use the stat you are based on for social stuff.

So, the following Classes meet those criteria:

Bard, Skald, Oracle, Inquisitor (w/Conversion), Investigator (w/Student of Philosophy and ideally Empiricist), Vigilante (several Archetypes). Shamans who dabble in Lore also have a good incentive to up Charisma and can work.

If willing to skip out on the casting, several other Classes also become very viable, but those are the basic list. If willing to skimp on skills a little and go offensive casting in combat rather than physical stuff, Sorcerer is also a viable option.

Let me add and addendum to point 4 (call it 4a) - being an Int based class, especially if your class covers the other bases already. You might lose out on social skills, but you should make up for it in other skill checks.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Allow me to second the investigator, especially the psychic detective archetype. Swapping out extracts for psychic spellcasting (using the psychic class spell list, no less), as well as Phrenic Meddler, really increases the investigator's versatility with magical effects (blasting, buffing, controlling, etc.). The rest of the versatility was already high with 6 + Int mod skill ranks and being an Int-based "caster" on top of that for skills, Trapfinding to cover for a rogue, as well as Studied Combat/Studied Strike for attacking, and Inspiration for bonuses on ability checks, skill checks, attack rolls, and saving throws.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:

Many Classes can be a good all-rounder. The basic components are as follows:

1. Being either a 3/4 BAB Class
2: Having at least 4+Int Skill Points per level (or being Int based).
3: Having at least 6-level casting
4: Either being Cha-based or having a way to use the stat you are based on for social stuff.

So, the following Classes meet those criteria:

Bard, Skald, Oracle, Inquisitor (w/Conversion), Investigator (w/Student of Philosophy and ideally Empiricist), Vigilante (several Archetypes). Shamans who dabble in Lore also have a good incentive to up Charisma and can work.

If willing to skip out on the casting, several other Classes also become very viable, but those are the basic list. If willing to skimp on skills a little and go offensive casting in combat rather than physical stuff, Sorcerer is also a viable option.

Surprisingly, the Medium also meets these criteria. He appears to be only a 4-level caster, but on days that he channels the Archmage or the Hierophant, he becomes a 6-level caster and gets to choose his spells (very limited in number) for the day. The basic class chassis easily meets the other three criteria.

Liberty's Edge

Grey Lensman wrote:
Let me add and addendum to point 4 (call it 4a) - being an Int based class, especially if your class covers the other bases already. You might lose out on social skills, but you should make up for it in other skill checks.

I disagree. In order to be an 'all-rounder'you really need to be able to participate effectively in social stuff.

Now, Int characters can do that with Student of Philosophy in theory, but lacking any social Class Skills tends to make it tricky (except for Investigator, as I mentioned previously, plus see below).

David knott 242 wrote:
Surprisingly, the Medium also meets these criteria. He appears to be only a 4-level caster, but on days that he channels the Archmage or the Hierophant, he becomes a 6-level caster and gets to choose his spells (very limited in number) for the day. The basic class chassis easily meets the other three criteria.

Yeah, I wasn't thinking about the Occult Classes at all there. Mesmerist, Medium, Occultist (with Student of Philosophy or an Enchantment Implement), and Spiritualist (with the Fractured Mind Archetype) all qualify as good all-rounders by my criteria.


Personally, I kinda view Kineticist as having "6th level casting." I mean, obviously you don't. In some ways you have 9th level spells and in other ways you are far weaker. But I feel like they are closest to 6th level casters, just a question of if the "list" is good for an all rounder.

Liberty's Edge

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The Mortonator wrote:
Personally, I kinda view Kineticist as having "6th level casting." I mean, obviously you don't. In some ways you have 9th level spells and in other ways you are far weaker. But I feel like they are closest to 6th level casters, just a question of if the "list" is good for an all rounder.

Oh, I'd agree that Kineticists meet that portion of the qualifications (or come close enough for government work). It's point #4 they fail on completely and profoundly.

Unless going Overwhelming Soul, of course, in which case the limitations they operate under make them effectively fail #3 (and not be a very effective character at all).


The Mortonator wrote:
Personally, I kinda view Kineticist as having "6th level casting." I mean, obviously you don't. In some ways you have 9th level spells and in other ways you are far weaker. But I feel like they are closest to 6th level casters, just a question of if the "list" is good for an all rounder.

Very much like 6 level casters, but unfortunately they don't have quite the flexibility for social situations.

They can more than handle battle (in its various aspects) and scouting though. Particularly aether and earth (cause invisibility and earthglide, both at will).


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Grey Lensman wrote:
Let me add and addendum to point 4 (call it 4a) - being an Int based class, especially if your class covers the other bases already. You might lose out on social skills, but you should make up for it in other skill checks.

I disagree. In order to be an 'all-rounder'you really need to be able to participate effectively in social stuff.

Now, Int characters can do that with Student of Philosophy in theory, but lacking any social Class Skills tends to make it tricky (except for Investigator, as I mentioned previously, plus see below).

I've seen too many of what might be called social encounters that don't involve the cha based skills - once the NPC is on the group's side, those skills aren't as important anymore. Plus I have GM's who rule that shared interests often trump sheet numbers. Two people who share a love for ancient civilizations (or sailing, or anything else in common, really) might hit it off better than one of them and the diplomancer no matter what diplomacy numbers say.


Deadmanwalking wrote:

I disagree. In order to be an 'all-rounder'you really need to be able to participate effectively in social stuff.

The Psychic gets them as well.


andreww wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

I disagree. In order to be an 'all-rounder'you really need to be able to participate effectively in social stuff.

The Psychic gets them as well.

Plus any hybrid caster with the right spells can fake the skills.

<waves hand> I am your beeesssst friend.....

<blank stare> You are my beeesssst friend....

Liberty's Edge

Grey Lensman wrote:
I've seen too many of what might be called social encounters that don't involve the cha based skills - once the NPC is on the group's side, those skills aren't as important anymore.

Actually...you still need Diplomacy to request favors of even the friendliest people.

Grey Lensman wrote:
Plus I have GM's who rule that shared interests often trump sheet numbers. Two people who share a love for ancient civilizations (or sailing, or anything else in common, really) might hit it off better than one of them and the diplomancer no matter what diplomacy numbers say.

The thing about this is that it's entirely GM fiat. Anyone can do anything with GM fiat, so talking about it in the context of 'I want to be capable of doing X' isn't very useful.

After all, the Diplomacy guy might be the one with a shared love for ancient civilizations just as easily as the one without. If it's the guy without, both get to participate (since Diplomacy is useful as is the connection), but if the guy with Diplomacy is also the one with the connection the other guy can't manage much of anything.

andreww wrote:
The Psychic gets them as well.

Gets what? There are partially Charisma based Psychics, it's true, who might do as well as a Lore Shaman.

Grey Lensman wrote:

Plus any hybrid caster with the right spells can fake the skills.

<waves hand> I am your beeesssst friend.....

<blank stare> You are my beeesssst friend....

Not in practice. Spell-casting is obvious and anyone who saves knows that someone tried to mind control them making this an extraordinarily risky tactic when dealing with level-appropriate opposition.

There are some ways around these issues to some degree, but they're expensive and generally require maxing out Bluff anyway.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
The Mortonator wrote:
Personally, I kinda view Kineticist as having "6th level casting." I mean, obviously you don't. In some ways you have 9th level spells and in other ways you are far weaker. But I feel like they are closest to 6th level casters, just a question of if the "list" is good for an all rounder.

Oh, I'd agree that Kineticists meet that portion of the qualifications (or come close enough for government work). It's point #4 they fail on completely and profoundly.

Unless going Overwhelming Soul, of course, in which case the limitations they operate under make them effectively fail #3 (and not be a very effective character at all).

Good point, but I guess I just kinda figured they are so SAD you might as well pick up Cha. It's not like you really need anything besides Dex (Which doesn't nearly everyone?) and Con.

Liberty's Edge

The Mortonator wrote:
Good point, but I guess I just kinda figured they are so SAD you might as well pick up Cha. It's not like you really need anything besides Dex (Which doesn't nearly everyone?) and Con.

To be good, they need a lot of both Dex and Con (generally 16+ in both), though, and they have mediocre skill points and bad Will Saves, meaning they can't dump Int or Wis...which leaves Str and Str alone to dump for Cha...and maybe a Cha of 12. And they have no social skills as Class skills at all.

They're not really MAD, but they aren't SAD either.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Gets what? There are partially Charisma based Psychics, it's true, who might do as well as a Lore Shaman.

They get all of the key social skills as class skills so don't need to waste traits gaining them and can just make use of student of philosophy. The best Psychic disciplines are wisdom based which also makes them decent at sense motive. They cover knowledges easily enough and as full casters can cover any missing bases with spells.

Liberty's Edge

andreww wrote:
They get all of the key social skills as class skills so don't need to waste traits gaining them and can just make use of student of philosophy. The best Psychic disciplines are wisdom based which also makes them decent at sense motive. They cover knowledges easily enough and as full casters can cover any missing bases with spells.

Ah. Yeah, Psychic works fine if willing to do casting rather than physical combat.


This spell is amazing for an all rounder bard. Buy scrolls, or even a wand of it. Extend rod helps uf you know it.

Alchemist is also really good. Feral mutagen and a modest strength makes a great combatant, bombs solve ranged issues, student of philosophy is great for social endeavors, and extracts can fill in most blanks.

Druid can be great, especially with a good charisma. Great to have a bunch of pet kittens around, and with fast empathy you can even talk down some fights. A bat shape with good wisdom and SNAI takes care of most traps/scouting and unlike invis if you get caught you can pretend to be a bat. Being a dire tiger takes care of combat and well timed wallsof fire or aggressive thunderclouds work as a sub for ranged damage.

Conversion inquisitors are amazing and with Imp. Monster Lore feat, giving you the textbook ability against monsters on top of inquistor's goodies.

Oracle has some surprising merit if you are careful with it. Wrecker curse gives you disable device, the cleric list has great combat buffs, snd some mysteries offer unique powers.

And finally, all humans can go for Imp. Improvisation for the look on the GM's face when he asks "Can anyone beat a DC 20 Craft (M16)?" in a campaign world where flintlock pistols are rare, and you can honestly answer yes, and the check make enough ammo, and I only take half the penalties for shooting it.


THIS is a great spell for out of combat knowledge checks.

The Exchange

Grumbaki wrote:

From my limited time playing pathfinder I have noticed that there are three things you can do at the table. You can scout (ex: sneak onto a ship to steal the captain's log), you can talk and you can fight. Players who can only do one of the three tend to not have much to do. If you have magic then you can support all three. If you are a cha dump fighter, chances are all you can do is move and attack while more well rounded characters get to actually do more.

So what character is best at always being useful regardless of mission type? Where it won't matter if you are charming a noble or bashing an orc's face in?

The best that I could come up with is this:

Sacred Slayer, archer build with conversion inquisition. Take a trait that gives you disable device.

With this you can sneak well. You can speak well (replace cha with wis for talking skills). You can cast basic spells, fight recently and can disarm mundane traps. At lvl 8 you get trapfinding so you can disarm magical traps too.

In other words, a jack of all trades. A character that can come to a random party and fill whatever is missing. He can't beat a specialist, but he is always useful in something.

But I can't help but feel that I'm missing something. That another class can do this better. Any suggestions?

A human slayer with the world traveler trait would be the best all around. I'd personally go with a human barbarian using world traveler, though. They can just walk right through traps instead of disarming them.

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