Some creatures can transform themselves into whirlwinds and remain in that form for up to 1 round for every 2 HD they have. If the creature has a fly speed, it can continue to fly at that same speed while in whirlwind form; otherwise it gains a fly speed equal to its base land speed (average maneuverability) while in whirlwind form.
The whirlwind is always 5 feet wide at its base, but its height and width at the top vary from creature to creature (minimum 10 feet high). A whirlwind’s width at its peak is always equal to half of its height. The creature controls the exact height, but it must be at least 10 feet high.
The whirlwind form does not provoke attacks of opportunity, even if the creature enters the space another creature occupies. Another creature might be caught in the whirlwind if it touches or enters the whirlwind, or if the whirlwind moves into or through the creature’s space. A creature in whirlwind form cannot make its normal attacks and does not threaten the area around it.
Creatures one or more size categories smaller than the whirlwind might take damage when caught in the whirlwind (generally damage equal to the monster's slam attack for a creature of its size) and may be lifted into the air. An affected creature must succeed on a Reflex save (DC 10 + half monster’s HD + the monster’s Strength modifier) when it comes into contact with the whirlwind or take damage as if it were hit by the whirlwind creature's slam attack. It must also succeed on a second Reflex save or be picked up bodily and held suspended in the powerful winds, automatically taking the indicated damage each round. A creature that can fly is allowed a Reflex save each round to escape the whirlwind. The creature still takes damage but can leave if the save is successful.
Creatures trapped in the whirlwind cannot move except to go where the whirlwind carries them or to escape the whirlwind. Trapped creatures can otherwise act normally, but must succeed on a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell. Creatures caught in the whirlwind take a –4 penalty to Dexterity and a –2 penalty on attack rolls. The whirlwind can have only as many creatures trapped inside at one time as will fit inside the whirlwind’s volume. The whirlwind can eject any carried creatures whenever it wishes as a free action, depositing them in its space.
If the whirlwind’s base touches the ground, it creates a swirling cloud of debris. This cloud is centered on the creature and has a diameter equal to half the whirlwind’s height. The cloud obscures all vision, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. Creatures 5 feet away have concealment, while those farther away have total concealment. Those caught in the cloud of debris must succeed on a concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a spell.
In the case of a Small Air Elemental for example, how does it work? I don't own a PhD in Physics to get the idea on how much space it occupies, what damage it does and what creatures can actually lift!
I read it a couple of times, but kinda gave up
I asked the player of the ninja from my Jade Regent game, who has a PhD in physics from MIT, and he said "I don't have a good physics answer, fluid mechanics is not my field" (he studied quantum information). He's working on something with dimensional analysis. In the meantime, ruleswise, the ability says that it's cone-shaped, 5 feet wide at the bottom and as wide at the top as its height (10-20 feet high for a small elemental), and you can pick up a creature at least one size smaller (so Tiny or smaller) and you deal slam damage (so 1d4+1). I'll post if he comes up with a dimensional analysis answer based on looking at what real-world tornados can lift and scaling based on the size.
I asked the player of the ninja from my Jade Regent game, who has a PhD in physics from MIT, and he said "I don't have a good physics answer, fluid mechanics is not my field" (he studied quantum information). He's working on something with dimensional analysis. In the meantime, ruleswise, the ability says that it's cone-shaped, 5 feet wide at the bottom and as wide at the top as its height (10-20 feet high for a small elemental), and you can pick up a creature at least one size smaller (so Tiny or smaller) and you deal slam damage (so 1d4+1). I'll post if he comes up with a dimensional analysis answer based on looking at what real-world tornados can lift and scaling based on the size.
I've read some people saying that is not tied to the size of the elemental but the size of the whirldwind
I asked the player of the ninja from my Jade Regent game, who has a PhD in physics from MIT, and he said "I don't have a good physics answer, fluid mechanics is not my field" (he studied quantum information). He's working on something with dimensional analysis. In the meantime, ruleswise, the ability says that it's cone-shaped, 5 feet wide at the bottom and as wide at the top as its height (10-20 feet high for a small elemental), and you can pick up a creature at least one size smaller (so Tiny or smaller) and you deal slam damage (so 1d4+1). I'll post if he comes up with a dimensional analysis answer based on looking at what real-world tornados can lift and scaling based on the size.I've read some people saying that is not tied to the size of the elemental but the size of the whirldwind
The rules mention "size category" to determine the largest creature you pick up and volume to determine how many total creatures you can hold. For instance, a Medium air elemental can fit lots of Small creatures in there. You can probably run it the other way without too much trouble, though you'd need to decide how you were going to ad hoc the size category change (I suggest starting from the chart of typical sizes for a size category) and it would likely throw off the balance of air elementals and make Small air elemental familiar and summons (or wild shape) more disruptive than before.
The air elemental entry in the bestiary has height ranges for all of the different sizes.
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The air elemental entry in the bestiary has height ranges for all of the different sizes.
Yep, if you wanted to increase the ability of air elementals to lift creatures in that fashion, you'd cross-reference those values with the size category standard sizes chart (which I'm now not finding in the CRB so might be it's a 3.5 chart near that art of creatures of various sizes), keeping in mind that it's a cone that tapers off at the bottom so you might be a category or so down from the listed suggestion. Personally, I'd recommend staying with the listed size category for the elemental.
PHYSICS UPDATE: My friend says that assuming constant density, the size of the object you can lift would be based on the square of the wind speed, not the size of the funnel, so in that regard, unexpectedly to me, if we assume that the stronger elementals have a faster wind speed, it actually makes sense from a real world physics perspective that the size of creature you can lift is not related to how many total creatures you can lift. I'm pretty shocked that the rules actually square with physics on this one, rather than just limiting what you can lift for balance reasons (who knows, it could have been that it squared with physics by accident). He also says that to do this, the elemental would need to be producing a temperature gradient compared to the surrounding air (so you can have convection with hot air rising).
It's the size of the whirlwind I am pretty sure... so potentially a whole lot of people if you count each 5 foot cube holds a medium creature. The first 5 foot section has one cube in it the 10 foot section also 5 foot wide has another 5 foot cube. That's 2 so far 1/2 of 15 is 7.5 feet wide so really only one more cube.
That's 3 not bad but at 20 tall it's now 10 feet wide. This hits the 5 foot radius spell area effect so 4 cubes there. You could rule less but a 5 foot radius contains 4 squares on a map... so then you go to 7 medium creatures.
25 feet tall 12.5 feet wide another 4 cubes up to 11 medium creatures.
30' tall 15' wide you can put that effectively over 5 squares. Looks like a + sign... so now up to 16 medium creatures.
35' tall 17.5 feet wid.e lets say another 5 added so 21 creatures.
40' tall is now 20' feet wide that's a 10 foot radius spell effect which effects 12 squares! So now up to 32 creatures of a medium size can fit in this whirlwind each having their own 5 foot cube to whirl around in.
Now if a creature medium is 1 cube in width but 2 cubes in height it would be a lot less... you just count out the 10 foot marks.
10 foot whirlwind holds one medium creature.
20 foot Whirlwind holds 5 one in the bottom and 4 in the top.
30' Holds 10 one on the bottom 4 in the middle and 5 more at the top
40' Holds 22
Edit: I should add this is not based on any real world science it is wholly based on spell area effect at the different height and I would go with the second version since most humanoid medium creatures are 6 feet tall or more in this game I think.
The air elemental entry in the bestiary has height ranges for all of the different sizes.Yep, if you wanted to increase the ability of air elementals to lift creatures in that fashion, you'd cross-reference those values with the size category standard sizes chart (which I'm now not finding in the CRB so might be it's a 3.5 chart near that art of creatures of various sizes), keeping in mind that it's a cone that tapers off at the bottom so you might be a category or so down from the listed suggestion. Personally, I'd recommend staying with the listed size category for the elemental.
PHYSICS UPDATE: My friend says that assuming constant density, the size of the object you can lift would be based on the square of the wind speed, not the size of the funnel, so in that regard, unexpectedly to me, if we assume that the stronger elementals have a faster wind speed, it actually makes sense from a real world physics perspective that the size of creature you can lift is not related to how many total creatures you can lift. I'm pretty shocked that the rules actually square with physics on this one, rather than just limiting what you can lift for balance reasons (who knows, it could have been that it squared with physics by accident). He also says that to do this, the elemental would need to be producing a temperature gradient compared to the surrounding air (so you can have convection with hot air rising).
I too suspect that it's a happy coincidence that the rules balance with the physics (I'm way too rusty to have figured that out for myself, so please, thank your friend). It absolutely makes sense to me that the larger elemental a would create faster winds, and thus be able to lift bigger individual creatures according to the physics. That's damn awesome: air elementals following the laws of physics.
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The air elemental entry in the bestiary has height ranges for all of the different sizes.Yep, if you wanted to increase the ability of air elementals to lift creatures in that fashion, you'd cross-reference those values with the size category standard sizes chart (which I'm now not finding in the CRB so might be it's a 3.5 chart near that art of creatures of various sizes), keeping in mind that it's a cone that tapers off at the bottom so you might be a category or so down from the listed suggestion. Personally, I'd recommend staying with the listed size category for the elemental.
Mark, have you looked at the Storm Kindler prestige class? It clearly says that when the storm kindler forms a 10 foot whirlwind using the monster whirlwind power (equal to a small air elemental) it can pick up small creatures, and makes no allowance for if the storm kindler is small, medium, or large.
So pretty clearly when the whirlwind is refering to the size of the whirlwind, not the size of the creature making it.
