PACG-ROTRL Ally card Clockwork Spy


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Is this "Clockwork Spy" card intended to be used for multiple explores per round. ie
use card to view top location card
reveal item
roll check for item
win..keep item
use card to reveal next card in location deck
reveal spell
roll check for spell
win ..keep spell
use card to reveal next location card
reveal monster
stop revealing
reset hand
end turn

would that be the accurate use of the card ?


1) "Clockwork Spy" is not a Rise of the Runelords card. It is in the Alchemist class deck (that you may have added to your Rise of the Runelords set)

2) Clockwork Spy tells you to display it. "Display" is not the same as reveal, as shown in the summary at the back of the newest rulebook here and also on page 9. While the card's powers function while it's displayed, you can't redisplay a displayed card. The implication is that only "while displayed" powers function while the card is displayed, but not others.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
zeroth_hour2 wrote:

1) "Clockwork Spy" is not a Rise of the Runelords card. It is in the Alchemist class deck (that you may have added to your Rise of the Runelords set)

2) Clockwork Spy tells you to display it. "Display" is not the same as reveal, as shown in the summary at the back of the newest rulebook here and also on page 9. While the card's powers function while it's displayed, you can't redisplay a displayed card. The implication is that only "while displayed" powers function while the card is displayed, but not others.

Thanks, I was going through my RotR box like crazy being all like "am I missing a card?"

For reference,

Clockwok Spy wrote:

Display this card to examine the top card of your location deck. Then you may explore your location.

While displayed, you may banish this card to add 1d6 to your combat check.

The card as-written works exactly once per scenario, unless you have some sort of power to return an arbitrary displayed card to your hand (I do not believe any such powers exist). Once it's displayed, it remains displayed until you either banish it for its other power or until the end of the scenario.

Grand Lodge

skizzerz wrote:
The card as-written works exactly once per scenario, unless you have some sort of power to return an arbitrary displayed card to your hand (I do not believe any such powers exist).

There USED to be one. Until SOMEone ruined it for everybody.


skizzerz wrote:


The card as-written works exactly once per scenario, unless you have some sort of power to return an arbitrary displayed card to your hand (I do not believe any such powers exist). Once it's displayed, it remains displayed until you either banish it for its other power or until the end of the scenario.

So does that mean that using the function

Quote:
Display this card to examine the top card of your location deck. Then you may explore your location.

is ok for one player to do several times in one turn ?


Flexxall wrote:
skizzerz wrote:


The card as-written works exactly once per scenario, unless you have some sort of power to return an arbitrary displayed card to your hand (I do not believe any such powers exist). Once it's displayed, it remains displayed until you either banish it for its other power or until the end of the scenario.

So does that mean that using the function

Quote:
Display this card to examine the top card of your location deck. Then you may explore your location.
is ok for one player to do several times in one turn ?

No. I think you are confusing reveal and display. Display means that you put it out of your hand and in front of you. You can't use it again because it doesn't go back into your hand. So you can only use it once.

If the card said "reveal" then you would show it, use its power, and put it back in your hand. But that would be too powerful, which is why it says Display.


Flexxall wrote:


So does that mean that using the function
Quote:
Display this card to examine the top card of your location deck. Then you may explore your location.
is ok for one player to do several times in one turn ?

When a card power says "Display to do that" it means you do it ONCE at the time you display.

You will be able to reuse that power if you manage to somehow (via another power) get the card back in your hand ant then redisplay it again.
The only case I know where you can reuse power of a displayed card without having to get it back in your hand is if there is a power on the card that says "While displayed..."


Frencois wrote:
Flexxall wrote:


So does that mean that using the function
Quote:
Display this card to examine the top card of your location deck. Then you may explore your location.
is ok for one player to do several times in one turn ?

When a card power says "Display to do that" it means you do it ONCE at the time you display.

You will be able to reuse that power if you manage to somehow (via another power) get the card back in your hand ant then redisplay it again.
The only case I know where you can reuse power of a displayed card without having to get it back in your hand is if there is a power on the card that says "While displayed..."

Thank you. That is the explanation that clarified things for me.

Grand Lodge

A great example of what happens when you display and what might carry over is the Rogue Olenjack.

Olenjack wrote:
When you attempt a check, you may display any number of allies; for each ally displayed, add 1 (□ 2) to the check. Return the displayed allies to your hand before you reset it.

So, only when you display an ally do you get the bonus, and it only applies to a single check. However, the ally stays displayed.

The best part is, if you display ANOTHER ally before the end of your turn, you get a new bonus on a new check basked on the TOTAL number of allies displayed. The first time I saw it done, I was at GenCon playing Guild games for the first time, and Olenjack's player had four allies in his hand. He had the (□ 2) power feat checked, and so on one check, he displayed two allies and got a +4 to the check. Then he had to do another check, played another ally, and got a +6. Then he had another check, played his last ally, got a +8 on that check. Then he reset his hand and put all those allies right back into it.

The point is, he only gets bonuses when he displays an ally. The bonus doesn't apply to every single check while the ally is displayed.

However, each time he displays an ally, the bonus he gets is based on the totally number of allies he currently has displayed (including the one(s) he displayed to activate the power). This total "zeroes out" when he resets his hand.


James McKendrew wrote:

The best part is, if you display ANOTHER ally before the end of your turn, you get a new bonus on a new check basked on the TOTAL number of allies displayed.

That doesn't sound right to me. I'm reading an implicit "for each ally displayed ON THIS CHECK / BY THIS ACTIVATION OF THE POWER" there. Can we get an official clarification on this?


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Flexxall wrote:
Thank you. That is the explanation that clarified things for me.

I think I may see the underlying place you were getting tripped up on, so allow me attempt to explain how powers work in general.

WotR rulebook p9-10 wrote:

Playing Cards

Anyone can play a card whenever the card allows it. Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card. Activating a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.

...

When you play a card, it will usually require you to take one of the following actions.

  • Reveal: Show it from your hand then put it back in your hand. You may not reveal the same card for its power more than once
    per check or step.
  • Display: Place it faceup in front of your character, unless stated otherwise; the card’s powers function until it’s discarded. When a character displays a card, it is not part of that character’s hand, deck, or discard pile, but it still belongs to that character.
  • Discard: Put it into your discard pile—a stack of faceup cards next to your deck.
  • Recharge: Put it facedown at the bottom of your character deck.
  • Bury: Put it under your character card (likely losing access to it for the rest of the scenario).
  • Banish: Put it back in the box, shuffling it in with the other cards of the same type (thus losing it for good).

...

If you are instructed to play, reveal, display, discard, recharge, bury, banish, or otherwise manipulate a card, that card must come from your hand unless otherwise specified.

From there, we can see a few things:

  • Clockwork Spy's display power does not state otherwise, so it must come from your hand in order to be used.
  • Once a card is displayed, it is no longer in your hand.
  • Activating the "While Displayed" power on it also counts as playing the ally (this matters for if you're in a check or encounter, since you can only play one card of each type during any check or step of an encounter).

Piecing those things together, you get to the same explanation that Frencois gave. This post just serves to illustrate the rules behind that explanation. I quoted the Wrath of the Righteous rulebook because it's the most recent one; the Rise of the Runelords rulebook does not do a very good job of explaining a lot of things. It is overall the same game (even though the adventure paths are different), so the rules found in WotR are overall the same as RotR. There are some differences related to terminology (die vs skill, the recharge box), but those differences do not come into effect for this particular thing (furthermore, cards from Class Decks use the new terminology).


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Longshot11 wrote:
James McKendrew wrote:

The best part is, if you display ANOTHER ally before the end of your turn, you get a new bonus on a new check basked on the TOTAL number of allies displayed.

That doesn't sound right to me. I'm reading an implicit "for each ally displayed ON THIS CHECK / BY THIS ACTIVATION OF THE POWER" there. Can we get an official clarification on this?

It works the way you just said (the allies only impact the check they were displayed for). See also this post by Vic which clarifies Olenjack's power. The person at GenCon was playing Olenjack incorrectly.


Longshot11 wrote:
James McKendrew wrote:

The best part is, if you display ANOTHER ally before the end of your turn, you get a new bonus on a new check basked on the TOTAL number of allies displayed.

That doesn't sound right to me. I'm reading an implicit "for each ally displayed ON THIS CHECK / BY THIS ACTIVATION OF THE POWER" there. Can we get an official clarification on this?

I'm with Longshot on this one. I think the power works this way:

Olenjack as-if wrote:
When you attempt a check, you may display any number of allies; for each ally you just displayed, add 1 (□ 2) to the check. Return the displayed allies to your hand before you reset it.

Grand Lodge

skizzerz wrote:
It works the way you just said (the allies only impact the check they were displayed for). See also this post by Vic which clarifies Olenjack's power. The person at GenCon was playing Olenjack incorrectly.

Actually, my thought was subtly different (though I think Longshot and elcoderdude got me). This guy thought that, as long as there were allies displayed, ALL checks got bonuses. My thought was, you only got bonuses when you displayed an ally, but the bonus you got was based on all currently displayed allies (which Vic's post doesn't actually contradict, that I can see at first glance). The consensus is that only the just-displayed allies provide a bonus to a check. So in my example, instead of getting one bonus of +4, one of +6, and one of +8, he would have gotten one of +4, and two more of +2 each. (According to the guy in Vic's post, he would have played two allies, gotten +4 on ALL checks until he played the third, at which point he'd've gotten +6 on all checks until he played the fourth, and then he'd've gotten +8 to all checks until he reset his hand. (Or, more likely, he'd've played all four right off the bat, and gotten +8 to all checks until his hand reset.)

Scarab Sages

Got my alchemis deck finally few days ago. Apparently I played this card wrong yesterday. Never had to display anything before, so I thought displayed cards return to your hand at the end of turn. (probably got this wrong rule mixed from watching our Olenjack player) So thanks for the thread; because of it I can start playing this card as it was meant to be played. Would suck to notice this rule like few months later.

No wonder it seemed so strong basic ally, I thought it gave free explore each my turn. It's still pretty good, ability to examine and explore and on demand banish to add 1d6 to combat check in one card.

Anyways just wanted to say I love my new alchemist deck. Seems more complex and more fun to play. Can't wait for goblins and warpriest decks!

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