[Requesting Rules Clarification] Simulacrum HD, and special abilities


Rules Questions


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

What exactly "It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD)." means? Does that mean the DM has to make up character progression for every single monster in game? Is there any chance this spell could be made more simple to use / understand?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As is, all hit dice and class levels of the creature are cut in half.

If I remember correctly, a while back a game designer recommended slashing all hit dice and class levels by half across the board (I'll link to it if I find it again).

For example, if you started out with a troll (6 HD)/fighter 3/ranger 4, you would end up with a troll sim (3 HD)/fighter 1/ranger 2.

Anything effected by the loss of hit dice or class levels (such as special ability DCs or class abilities) is affected as well. For special abilities that don't have such easy calculations, such as a genie's wish ability, it's left up to the GM to decide whether the ability is appropriate for the new simulacrum's power level or not. Therefore, the GM is well within his right to choose which abilities are retained or loss, based on the sim's overall power level. It also means that two sims of the same creature can be entirely different from one another when run by different GMs.

The spell really should have come with a template monster, similar to animated object.

EDIT:

James Jacobs on simulacrums

Sean K Reynolds on simulacrums


Ravingdork wrote:

As is, all hit dice and class levels of the creature are cut in half.

If I remember correctly, a while back a game designer recommended slashing all hit dice and class levels by half across the board (I'll link to it if I find it again).

For example, if you started out with a troll (6 HD)/fighter 3/ranger 4, you would end up with a troll sim (3 HD)/fighter 1/ranger 2.

Anything effected by the loss of hit dice or class levels (such as special ability DCs or class abilities) is affected as well. For special abilities that don't have such easy calculations, such as a genie's wish ability, it's left up to the GM to decide whether the ability is appropriate for the new simulacrum's power level or not. Therefore, the GM is well within his right to choose which abilities are retained or loss, based on the sim's overall power level. It also means that two sims of the same creature can be entirely different from one another when run by different GMs.

The spell really should have come with a template monster, similar to animated object.

It gives the DM too much extra work. Besides, what about monsters with wierd/fun abilities like Drakainia. Beats me what is considered appropriate for creature with half the HD.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah, it's often more art then science, which is unfortunate.

Why oh why didn't they just make a template?

(There are new edits/links in my previous post.)


Please mark as FAQ candidate. I would LOVE an errata/explanation for this.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think this would be a better candidate for an entire Blog article than it would be for a FAQ. Other threads have asked the same question and not made it far. I think it would be better to FAQ one of those, as they already have far more FAQ clicks.


The spell takes 12 hours to cast (unless using limited Wish shenanigans). That usually means it is cast in downtime. You plan to have the sim around for a while as well. Therefore, a fully stated creature reference card is in order.

This is not something to spring upon a GM at a moments notice. Much better to generate the reference card with the GM ahead of time. Then when you cast it, you say X-gp and 12 hours later, you have <ref card> sim.

Determining what it has can be difficult.
Reduce HD/classes by half, and reduce stat points by the appropriate amount for each 4th level it lost. [Recommended to reduce highest stat first.] [If it goes from 6HD to 3HD, it passed 4HD, so it looses 1 stat point]
Recalc feats, hp, & saves per new HD/classes & stats.
Remove class abilities gained from class levels lost.
Remove special attacks/defenses/whatever gained by how many hit die it has if a HD level is given. Any not tied to HD is retained, but may have been modified by HD/levels or stat changes.

Once you have this figured out, pass it by the GM for their blessing. [You may need to tweak it to get that blessing.] Once approved, make until you have what you want.

You can reduce HD/Classes in other combinations that halve the total HD+Levels, allowing you to retain more HD or levels, but that needs GM approval. However, a common sim is of yourself [or other party member], and it you happen to have a character sheet at that half level, you can use it as the base sim.

/cevah

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