Glaive & Shield fighter


Advice


After getting my Relic Hunter killed last night, I decided to try messing around with the bit of the Armour Master's Handbook that first caught my attention - Shield Brace - to make a spear & shield fighter.

This is what I've got in mind:

Guy
Human (Galtan) fighter 6
CN Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +6
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Defence
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AC 25, touch 14, flat-footed 22 (+7 armour, +1 deflection, +3 Dex, +4 shield)
hp 67 (6d10+18)
Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +6 (+2 vs. fear)
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Offence
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +1 bardiche +10/+5 (1d10+14/19-20) or
. . hope knife +9/+4 (1d4+8/19-20)
Special Attacks weapon training (pole arms +1)
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +6; CMB +8; CMD 24
Feats Advanced Weapon Training (Armed Bravery), Defended Movement, Just Out Of Reach, Power Attack, Shield Brace, Shield Focus, Shielded Stand, Spring Attack
Traits shield-trained, trunau native
Skills Acrobatics +7, Climb +6, Handle Animal +3, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (engineering) +4, Perception +6, Survival +4, Swim +6
Languages Common
SQ armour training 1
Other Gear +1 breastplate, +1 mithral heavy steel shield, +1 bardiche, hope knife, cloak of resistance +1, ring of protection +1, backpack, bedroll, belt pouch, flint and steel, mess kit, soap, trail rations (5), waterskin, 30 pp, 9 gp, 9 sp
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Special Abilities
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Defended Movement When using shield, gain +2 to AC vs. AoO.
Just out of Reach Gain +4 dodge AC bonus vs. foes attacking more than 5 ft. away with a melee reach weapon.
Power Attack -2/+4 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Shield Brace Can use 2 handed spear/polearm with shield, but take the ACP of shield as pen to attack.
Shielded Stand As a swift action, prevent AoO vs. self/adj ally when stand/pick up object.
Spring Attack You can move - attack - move when attacking with a melee weapon.
Weapon Training (Pole Arms) +1 (Ex) +1 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Pole Arms

Several of the choices for Guy were made around the idea that we're likely to continue facing giants with reach and crazy high CMB and bonuses to hit (grenzeldeck basically couldn't miss us) so I wanted to be able to survive well when fighting from 10' away.

Spring Attack is there more for the ability to move through a single enemy's threatened area safely than for any other reason, and Just out of Reach should hopefully give me a high enough AC against giants that they might actually miss on occasion.

Shielded Stand is less about recovering from being tripped and more about letting myself or teammates who get knocked into the negatives get up off the ground after being healed.

Going forward, I expect to grab Combat Reflexes, and then probably a bunch of teamwork feats to use with Fighter's Tactics. (Plus Cut from the Air / Smash from the Air to deal with tossed boulders.)

Anyone have thoughts / ideas / suggestions on what I should consider changing or adding?


I would actually put combat reflexes high up on that list...would probably replace spring attack...maybe shielded stand. I'm still waiting on the book to arrive but looks interesting


Why not use mithral heavy armor? Armor Training means there's no movement restriction on it, the DEX cap is +4 and growing, and the armor check penalty is small and shrinking.

If you want to use a breastplate for flavor reasons, consider going with an Archetype that trades off Armor Training. Two-Handed Fighter comes to mind...


Would the pole arm master archetype be helpful to consult for your build?


Polearm Master has the really annoying catch that you don't benefit from Gloves of Dueling, but it's not a bad archetype otherwise. You just lose out on +2 to attack and damage through a pair of gloves, so... that kind of really sucks.


Polearm Master has some issues.

The Pole Fighting ability that let's you switch to a non-reach grip works as an immediate action, so you can only switch your grip on someone else's turn. Also, it removes Bravery. And Armed Bravery is too nice to give up easily.

No Armor Training means no ready access to Shield Mastery feats, and no Armor Training benefits. I don't want to be lumbering around at 20' per round.

I'm not sure if Polearm Training is one of the abilities that counts as Weapon Training per the faq, but if not, that removes access to Armed Bravery and other Advanced Weapon Training abilities.

The archetype that I was considering is Dragoon. The mounted combat / skill focus (ride) would be pretty much entirely wasted, but the rest of the abilities are actually pretty nice.

No heavy mithral armour for cost reasons. Even with standard WBL, Mithral heavy armour is too expensive at level six, and I'm working with just 9K, so for now, it's medium armour and no Sash of the War Champion.


ZanThrax wrote:

Polearm Master has some issues.

The Pole Fighting ability that let's you switch to a non-reach grip works as an immediate action, so you can only switch your grip on someone else's turn.

That's not true.
Immediate Action wrote:
However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time - even if it's not your turn.

You have the option to take it on someone's else's turn, but you can still do it on your own turn. It's just an immediate action so you can benefit from the switch for an attack of opportunity.


Probably not really what you're looking for, but I'm always a fan of tossing a level of a Barbarian Archetype that doesn't mess with AC or HP onto a character who can afford a couple Extra Rage, since it's 18 rounds per day of bonus strength and Furious Weapon.


Have you looked at the Phalanx Fighter archetype?
Lets you use a shield and a polearm 1 handed at 3rd lvl.

PFS Legal Phalanx Soldier
Source Advanced Player's Guide pg. 1 (Amazon)
The phalanx soldier specializes in defensive tactics, using his shield to guard himself and his allies and forming a shield wall like an unbreakable anvil against which his enemies break.

Stand Firm (Ex): At 2nd level, a phalanx soldier gains a +1 bonus to CMD against bull rush, overrun, and trip attempts. This bonus also applies on saves against trample attacks. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 2nd. This ability replaces bravery.

Phalanx Fighting (Ex): At 3rd level, when a phalanx soldier wields a shield, he can use any polearm or spear of his size as a one-handed weapon. This ability replaces armor training 1.

Ready Pike (Ex): At 5th level, a phalanx soldier can, once per day, ready a weapon with the brace property as an immediate action, gaining a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. For every four levels beyond 5th, this bonus increases by +1, and he can use the ability one additional time per day. He cannot use this ability when flat-footed. This ability replaces weapon training 1.

Deft Shield (Ex): At 7th level, the armor check penalty from a shield and the attack roll penalty are reduced by –1 for a phalanx soldier using a tower shield. At 11th level, these penalties are reduced by –2. This ability replaces armor training 2 and 3.

Shield Ally (Ex): At 9th level, when a phalanx fighter is using a heavy or tower shield, he can, as a move action, provide partial cover (+2 cover bonus to AC, +1 bonus on Reflex saves) to himself and all adjacent allies until the beginning of his next turn.

At 13th level, he can instead provide cover (+4 cover bonus to AC, +2 bonus on Reflex saves) and evasion (as a rogue) to one adjacent ally until the beginning of his next turn. This cover does not allow Stealth checks.

At 17th level, he can provide cover to himself and all adjacent allies, or he can provide improved cover (+8 cover bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves, improved evasion) to a single adjacent ally. This ability replaces weapon training 2, 3, and 4.

Irresistible Advance (Ex): At 15th level, a phalanx fighter gains a bonus on bull rush and overrun CMB checks. This bonus depends on the type of shield used: +1 with a buckler, +2 with a light shield, +3 with a heavy shield, or +4 with a tower shield. This ability replaces armor training 4.

Shielded Fortress (Ex): At 20th level, a phalanx fighter’s shield cannot be disarmed or sundered. He gains evasion (as a rogue) when using a shield (improved evasion when using a tower shield). As a move action, a phalanx fighter can provide evasion to all adjacent allies until the beginning of his next turn. As an immediate action, he can provide improved evasion to an adjacent ally against one attack. This ability replaces weapon mastery.


The issue with Phalanx Fighter is that you wield the weapon one-handed. That means you don't get 1.5x Str and Power Attack bonuses and can't use it for abilities that require using a 2-h weapon (eg. Pushing Assault). Shield Brace, on the other hand, doesn't change the effort category of the weapon so it still functions as a 2-h weapon with all the benefits (and restrictions) that entails. I think 2-h Fighter is probably best for this, especially if you want to stick with the Breastplate.


Titan Mauler Barbarian for two levels. Jotun grip allows you to use a two handed weapon one handed at a minus two. Go fighter and take Weapon Focus and greater weapon focus and you remove that. I have done a build using a Titan Mauler wielding a Great axe with a Tower Shield Specialist Fighter. I was not only a high damage dealer but I was the tank of the group. The Rage ability came in handy during tough fights. Overall everyone was impressed with it as I was.


Kazaan wrote:
The issue with Phalanx Fighter is that you wield the weapon one-handed. That means you don't get 1.5x Str and Power Attack bonuses and can't use it for abilities that require using a 2-h weapon (eg. Pushing Assault). Shield Brace, on the other hand, doesn't change the effort category of the weapon so it still functions as a 2-h weapon with all the benefits (and restrictions) that entails. I think 2-h Fighter is probably best for this, especially if you want to stick with the Breastplate.

Read the title of the OP's post. He wants to incorporate a shield with that build, so he either uses mechanics that give him one handed use, or he grows a third arm.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Kazaan wrote:
The issue with Phalanx Fighter is that you wield the weapon one-handed. That means you don't get 1.5x Str and Power Attack bonuses and can't use it for abilities that require using a 2-h weapon (eg. Pushing Assault). Shield Brace, on the other hand, doesn't change the effort category of the weapon so it still functions as a 2-h weapon with all the benefits (and restrictions) that entails. I think 2-h Fighter is probably best for this, especially if you want to stick with the Breastplate.
Read the title of the OP's post. He wants to incorporate a shield with that build, so he either uses mechanics that give him one handed use, or he grows a third arm.

He doesn't need one-handed use to use the shield. That's the whole point of Shield Brace; he can still use the shield while wielding a 2-h weapon. He can't TWF with them, but he made no indication he wanted to open up TWF. If he uses a reach weapon, he can attack at reach with the weapon or adjacent with the shield. If he uses a non-reach polearm/spear (eg. a Nodachi), he leans more towards versatility of damage types (slashing and/or piercing from the weapon, bludgeoning from the shield) and also the possibility to use shield-based bullrushing. It's important to read the actual post and not just stop at the title.


Kazaan wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Kazaan wrote:
The issue with Phalanx Fighter is that you wield the weapon one-handed. That means you don't get 1.5x Str and Power Attack bonuses and can't use it for abilities that require using a 2-h weapon (eg. Pushing Assault). Shield Brace, on the other hand, doesn't change the effort category of the weapon so it still functions as a 2-h weapon with all the benefits (and restrictions) that entails. I think 2-h Fighter is probably best for this, especially if you want to stick with the Breastplate.
Read the title of the OP's post. He wants to incorporate a shield with that build, so he either uses mechanics that give him one handed use, or he grows a third arm.
He doesn't need one-handed use to use the shield. That's the whole point of Shield Brace; he can still use the shield while wielding a 2-h weapon. He can't TWF with them, but he made no indication he wanted to open up TWF. If he uses a reach weapon, he can attack at reach with the weapon or adjacent with the shield. If he uses a non-reach polearm/spear (eg. a Nodachi), he leans more towards versatility of damage types (slashing and/or piercing from the weapon, bludgeoning from the shield) and also the possibility to use shield-based bullrushing. It's important to read the actual post and not just stop at the title.

You can't get two handed damage on the glaive unless you use two hands. You may be able to wield the two handed weapon, but you're going to get one hand damage with it.


BadBird wrote:

Why not use mithral heavy armor? Armor Training means there's no movement restriction on it, the DEX cap is +4 and growing, and the armor check penalty is small and shrinking.

If you want to use a breastplate for flavor reasons, consider going with an Archetype that trades off Armor Training. Two-Handed Fighter comes to mind...

No particular reason for a breastplate beyond simple cost. He'll switch to plate when he's got the gold (and the next iteration of armour training to avoid being slowed down)

Two Handed Fighter is tempting, but it's a big offence over defence trade-off that I'm not sure would be wise in a heavy-hitting AP like Giantslayer. We were getting absolutely rocked by Grenseldek and friends last weekend, so I'm trying to focus on survivability over DPR.


Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Kazaan wrote:
Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:
Kazaan wrote:
The issue with Phalanx Fighter is that you wield the weapon one-handed. That means you don't get 1.5x Str and Power Attack bonuses and can't use it for abilities that require using a 2-h weapon (eg. Pushing Assault). Shield Brace, on the other hand, doesn't change the effort category of the weapon so it still functions as a 2-h weapon with all the benefits (and restrictions) that entails. I think 2-h Fighter is probably best for this, especially if you want to stick with the Breastplate.
Read the title of the OP's post. He wants to incorporate a shield with that build, so he either uses mechanics that give him one handed use, or he grows a third arm.
He doesn't need one-handed use to use the shield. That's the whole point of Shield Brace; he can still use the shield while wielding a 2-h weapon. He can't TWF with them, but he made no indication he wanted to open up TWF. If he uses a reach weapon, he can attack at reach with the weapon or adjacent with the shield. If he uses a non-reach polearm/spear (eg. a Nodachi), he leans more towards versatility of damage types (slashing and/or piercing from the weapon, bludgeoning from the shield) and also the possibility to use shield-based bullrushing. It's important to read the actual post and not just stop at the title.
You can't get two handed damage on the glaive unless you use two hands. You may be able to wield the two handed weapon, but you're going to get one hand damage with it.

Are you actually following any of the discussion? He is using the glaive two-handed because Shield Brace doesn't make the weapon one-handed; it lets you use the shield even while both hands are wielding the 2-h weapon. Try to keep up with the rest of us or stick to spectating.

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