Hey guys, I've tried to look everywhere to see if I could find the answer to my question, so sorry in advance if it's already been answered.
I'm thinking about choosing a Suli or Changeling for my class, but when I refer to the core rulebook, neither is in pg. 406's LA table. I also understand the concept of race points, but I haven't seen an official source to determine how many RP determines the LA.
I also worry about the Suli's elemental defense trait and coming across elemental Npcs in Pazio campaigns (overpowered?)
The version of DND is Pazio's Pathfinder
Thanks so much for reading, I'd really appreciate any help.
Pathfinder did away with level adjustments.
Go nuts! :-)
Sulis and Changelings aren't CRB races. However, they have no level adjustment. Also, RP aren't exactly a good measure of level adjustment, but more than 20 is somewhere between +0 and +1, and more than 40 is about +1 (although this also depends on the specific RP abilities chosen).
captain yesterday wrote: Pathfinder did away with level adjustments.
Go nuts! :-)
To clarify: Pathfinder level adjustments are the same as CR adjustments. They are one and the same system now (unless you use the Monsters as PCs rules).
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Here's something I've learned at my tables that works very well for adjudicating races. Do a point buy. Increase the points available by the average race of your world (in most worlds, that's humans, so nine points). So, if you're allowing a 25 point buy, everyone has 34 points and has to buy the character's race first. Remaining points can be spent on stats. So a Suli, valued at 16 RP, means you then have 18 points to buy stats.
So far, this has balanced the table very well in several campaigns. Maybe it will assist you as well. :)
Suli is 16 points, and changelings are something like 7 I think.
The chart for "Challenging Advanced and Monstrous Races" lists that the APL [average party level] would have to be 20+ RP for the party to be counted as higher level for encounters.
Suli playing at a 7 PB deficit over humans seems like it would guarantee that no one would ever play the former race, since Humans are already a much superior choice.
I mean, maybe I'd play a Sylph for a 28 PB or something, but beyond that I can't see many of the more expensive races ever being worth playing in that system. Maybe like, an 11 PB ogre as a novelty or something, but certainly not standard.
For those who care ...
Changeling Racial Traits
Changelings are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit Dice. All changelings have the following racial traits.
-2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom and +2 Charisma: Changelings are frail, but are perceptive and comely. [Specialized Array: 1 rp]
Humanoid: Changelings are humanoids with the changeling subtype. [0 rp]
Medium: Changelings are Medium Creatures, so have no bonuses or penalties due to size. [0 rp]
Normal Speed: Changelings have a base speed of 30 feet. [0 rp]
Hag Racial: The changeling inherits one of the following racial traits, depending on her mother’s hag type: [1 rp]**
Hulking Changeling (Annis Hag): The changeling gains a +1 racial bonus on melee damage.
Green Widow (Green Hag): The changeling gains a +2 racial bonus on Bluff checks against creatures that are sexually attracted to her.
Sea Lungs (Sea Hag): The changeling may hold her breath for a number of rounds equal to three times her Constitution before she risks drowning.
Claws: Changelings’ fingernails are hard and sharp, granting them two claw attacks (1d4 points of damage each). [2 rp]
Natural Armor: Changelings have a +1 natural armor bonus. [2 rp]
Darkvision: Changelings can see in the dark up to 60 feet. [2 rp]
Languages: Changelings begin play speaking Common and the primary language of their host society. Changelings with high Intelligence scores can choose from the following: Aklo, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Orc. [Standard Language Array - 0 rp]
** - Bastards of Golarion, p. 31
This brings the Changeling in at 8 points.
graystone wrote: Suli is 16 points, and changelings are something like 7 I think. Suli should be 14 points, as they sell back their Darkvision (gained from the Outsider type).
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Interesting enough, the Suli's breakdown in the race builder's examples section claims they still have darkvision.
Squiggit wrote: Interesting enough, the Suli's breakdown in the race builder's examples section claims they still have darkvision. I know, but the suli racial write-ups in every other source remove that feature. Hence, my assertion that they should sell back Darkvision. Doing so brings their RP cost back down to 14.
Thanks guys, so from what I gathered: there should be no level adjustment for either race because a) Pathfinder does not incorporate level adjustment and b) because the traditional RP threshold for level adjustments is 20RP or more.
I also tried to find challange ratings for both classes, but it honestly seems to apply only for monster Npcs.
Also, one last thing.. Should I worry about my racial defense trait being overpowered for any Pazio campaign?
Thank you all so much for your support.
I don't know about overpowered, but it's certainly not nothing. Especially early on. But that's of course to those types of damage. I'd expect physical damage to be more common in most things. But when it works, it's really nice.
I'd say a race point is worth about half as much as an ability bye point.
(I know this is thread necromancy, but whatever.)
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