Wheel of Time TV series officially in development


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The Exchange

Werthead wrote:

Women in the world of the Wheel of Time are superior to men in just about every culture apart from Amadicia and Tear (where they're more equal), based on the notion that since only women can use magic that acts as a more-than-force-equaliser and spills over into the non-magical world as well. It's an interesting approach and I think was handled quite well in the meta, but in the close-up-and-personal execution was flawed. But that's something that can be fixed fairly straightforwardly in an adaptation.

I wouldn't cite channeling as the reason for the mostly matriarchal nature of the nations in the Wheel Of Time. For one, there simply aren't enough channelers around to drastically change the day to day interaction between the genders - from the way most commoners react to Aes Sedai it is clear that they are an extremely rare sight.

It mostly seems to be about extremely rigid and mostly arbitrary allocation of gender roles in most cultures in the book. In certain nations it is taboo for men to be merchants, in others it is taboo for women to be inn keepers. In some nations there are entire soldiers casts of women, in others men do all the fighting. In some nations there are only queens, in others only kings.

Jordan was actually quite obsessed with gender roles - he had the imagination to make them different from the default ones we are familiar from our world, but they were most definitely there, and in what I would estimate as a little more than half the cultures women had some degree of superiority to men. The rest is split between nations where men and women have about the same amount of power (though wielded in different ways - I'm thinking mostly of the Sea Folk and the Aiel here, but Illian probably qualifies as well, and possibly some of the borderlands) and nations where men have some measure of superiority.


Lord snow: The skew towards female rulership comes from a few things. Most prominent among them is male channelers going crazy. So if you know that there's a very real possibility of half the population going nuts, you might want to put the other half of the population in charge. Sure, 2,000 years after the breaking and channeling getting culled from the population rather heavily its not that common, but right after the breaking it was probably a pretty common event.

Tar Valon getting along better with female rules probably didn't hurt either.

Sovereign Court

Storyteller Shadow wrote:
Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Frankly - I liked the books (at least until the last few) but I don't think it would translate well to TV. Fantasy that high-powered really doesn't. It'd probably end up as cheesy as The Sword of Truth did.
Agreed. I do think the Wheel of Time saga was better than the Shannara saga. I never read past the first three Shannara books though.

The Sword of Truth books and Shannara books were entirely different. The Shannara books kinda sucked. (Though the 7th book of Sword of Truth was pretty bad too. Especially a let-down after #6 was the best in the series.) Though admittedly - they were both written by a guy named Terry. (Terry Brooks vs Terry Goodkind)


Sword of Truth started well and quickly descended into weirdly politically charged Mary Sue fodder pretty quickly.

The TV series heavily deviated...to good effect, in my opinion.

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Lord snow: The skew towards female rulership comes from a few things. Most prominent among them is male channelers going crazy. So if you know that there's a very real possibility of half the population going nuts, you might want to put the other half of the population in charge. Sure, 2,000 years after the breaking and channeling getting culled from the population rather heavily its not that common, but right after the breaking it was probably a pretty common event.

Tar Valon getting along better with female rules probably didn't hurt either.

Doesn't make any sense. Males can be tested for a talent in the One Power, so all you have to do to make since there aren't any crazed male monarchs is test them every now and then.

I think it's just tradition. Why can only Aiel males be clan chiefs, and only Andoran women be the leaders of the aristocracy? Well, because.

Essentially, I feel like the gender roles have been shuffled around some, but not in a way that so directly relates to channeling specifically. Sure, the fact that the most powerful individuals in the world are all women has some impact, but I feel like that's rather unrelated to most of the gender politics in the books.


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Lord Snow wrote:


Doesn't make any sense. Males can be tested for a talent in the One Power,

..by another male channeler. Who themselves is going to get lynched. So that doesn't work at all. It was a pretty intensive 5 minute procces that took the focus of the guy being tested.

Quote:
I think it's just tradition. Why can only Aiel males be clan chiefs, and only Andoran women be the leaders of the aristocracy? Well, because.

Because Aiel tend to pick the best fighter and put him in charge if her survives rhidean? Also Women are represented in the Wise ones

Liberty's Edge

Lord Snow wrote:
Crisischild wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
I wonder if they'll change up how the women were portrayed. They were a bit stereotypicaly irrational during most of the books, with few exceptions.
TBH all of the main characters were utter morons through the entire series. It's one of the series glaring weaknesses.

** spoiler omitted **

Jordan did a really valliant attempt at being inclusive to women in his books, but sometimes it really feels like he never met one.

True, and fair enough.

The WOT women were very fetishized. Jordan obviously had a certain view on women he liked very much. Women hold almost all authority and power. Most all women domineer and berate all the men around them all the time, no matter the position or situation of those involved. All women considered men to be fools. Women frequently ended up naked together with no qualms and it seemed like many of the women specific activities in the books called for them to take off their clothes. A lot of domination/submission between women. More than a few of the female cast received spankings from, you guessed it, other women. That they were irrational is really the least of it, everyone was irrational.

Some of that would probably need to be changed for a TV series. IDK. I think Jordan pinned for a strong matriarchal Earth.

Sovereign Court

It's just really annoying, Jordan envisioned a world of strong female characters, what he gave, however was a world of crazy hysterical beasts I could in no way relate to.

Except Nynaeve. I love Nynaeve.


There is a slight element of hyperbole to that statement. "Crazy hysterical beasts" is overselling it just a bit.

Basically, Jordan imagined the world of gender relations like it was in a pre-modern period at maybe age 16-17, but applied it to everyone, even people in their forties and older. That was silly, but it also wasn't a complete catastrophe (it also becomes less pravalent as the series goes on). You can easily ignore it and focus on the actual story about the Dragon Reborn realising his destiny and uniting the nations to face the Last Battle.

The gender relations thing is a key theme which Jordan didn't sell as well as he could: a major problem being that Egwene is actually the second-most-important character but this doesn't become apparent until a good 6 books in, during which time her development is secondary to the likes of Mat and Perrin, who was less important in the endgame.

Scarab Sages

Hama wrote:

It's just really annoying, Jordan envisioned a world of strong female characters, what he gave, however was a world of crazy hysterical beasts I could in no way relate to.

Except Nynaeve. I love Nynaeve.

She doesnt approve.. she's a village wisdom/aessedai/wifeofthelordofseventowers...She yanks her braid at you twice before crossing her arms under her breasts and sniffing at you disaprovingly

The Exchange

Quote:
..by another male channeler. Who themselves is going to get lynched. So that doesn't work at all. It was a pretty intensive 5 minute procces that took the focus of the guy being tested.

Nuh-ah. Women can detect male channelers, and vice-versa.

Quote:
Except Nynaeve. I love Nynaeve.

She's one of my most hated characters in any book, ever. It got to the point where I almost wished the good guys lose because if it removes her from the world, maybe that's not too bad. Every single character interaction that included Nynaeve was a fight. She is hypocritical, deluded, confrontational, and often foolish. Also, she was one of the most extreme gender activists in the book, refusing to almot hilarious degrees to cooperate with any male for almost the entire duration of the series.

Well, at least that's the Nynaeve of books 3-11. She's actually a great character in the first two books, and in the last three Sanderson toned down her intolerable aspects greatly, but sadly once he did there was not much left to make her particularly interesting.

Quote:
Basically, Jordan imagined the world of gender relations like it was in a pre-modern period at maybe age 16-17, but applied it to everyone, even people in their forties and older. That was silly, but it also wasn't a complete catastrophe (it also becomes less pravalent as the series goes on). You can easily ignore it and focus on the actual story about the Dragon Reborn realising his destiny and uniting the nations to face the Last Battle.

Actually, the war of the sexes becomes much more pronounced later on in the series (again disregarding Sanderson's tenure - it is Jordan we are discussing). At first it was confined to the teenage characters, mostly. You didn't see Lan, Moiraine, Thom or any of the other adult characters stoop to those levels. However as time went on the same exact behavior pattern spread like a taint on the one power, corrupting the world's wisest and most powerful, leaving behind husks of what they used to be. Heck, most powerful politicians in the world spend more time fighting with the other sex than they do actually ruling or advancing the plot in any way.

Yes, the show could and should easily just ignore all of this, either completely or by replacing it with a somewhat more profound and textured investigation of relationships between men and women. But like it or not, this element is a very major one in the books, and I don't event want to imagine the percentage of the word count dedicated to it.

Sovereign Court

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Lord Snow wrote:
Quote:
..by another male channeler. Who themselves is going to get lynched. So that doesn't work at all. It was a pretty intensive 5 minute procces that took the focus of the guy being tested.
Nuh-ah. Women can detect male channelers, and vice-versa.

No.

No they can't.

Male channelers can tell when a woman in channeling in their general vicinity but not who it is.

Female channelers can sense nothing from men.

Have you even read the books?


Werthead wrote:
a major problem being that Egwene is actually the second-most-important character but this doesn't become apparent until a good 6 books in, during which time her development is secondary to the likes of Mat and Perrin, who was less important in the endgame.

Damn caster martial disparity...

Although "Its only a weave..." Is easily the best line in the book.


Lord snow wrote:
Nuh-ah. Women can detect male channelers, and vice-versa.

There is a weave and some ter angreal for women to detect men channelING but not channelERS. The reds kept is a secret, and it wasn't likely developed until the breaking or later. I mean otherwise you'd just see a cup floating by and say "Bob, are you weaving air in the house again?"


Lord Snow wrote:

Quote:
Except Nynaeve. I love Nynaeve.

She was great when her arrogance was at least somewhat justified. She tracked a warder (twice), kept herself and a spoiled princess hidden in the middle of an occupied seanchan city WHILE succesfully gathering enough intel on the a'dam and the seanchan to plan break out, and topped it off by defeating Mohegidan herself with a kick between the legs.

Sovereign Court

I really can't decide do I hate Egwene, Elaine or Faile more.


Ahahahaha... XD Yeah, thinking back, Jordan probably could have cooled off on the Men vs Women dynamic a bit. I mean, I'm totally fine with the "no weak women" thing going on, but there's a difference between having confident characters and ones that are deliberately ungrateful when they get help.


Rednal wrote:
Ahahahaha... XD Yeah, thinking back, Jordan probably could have cooled off on the Men vs Women dynamic a bit. I mean, I'm totally fine with the "no weak women" thing going on, but there's a difference between having confident characters and ones that are deliberately ungrateful when they get help.

Bridgette did smack some sense into them over that.

"so he broke you out of the most impregnable fortress on the planet while it was being attacked by black veiled Aiel??!?!?!?!

"Well its not like he knew about the forsaken

"Right. And we TOTALLY had the black Ajah covered...

"...you...thank .. him.. NOW...


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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Rednal wrote:
Ahahahaha... XD Yeah, thinking back, Jordan probably could have cooled off on the Men vs Women dynamic a bit. I mean, I'm totally fine with the "no weak women" thing going on, but there's a difference between having confident characters and ones that are deliberately ungrateful when they get help.

Bridgette did smack some sense into them over that.

"so he broke you out of the most impregnable fortress on the planet while it was being attacked by black veiled Aiel??!?!?!?!

"Well its not like he knew about the forsaken

"Right. And we TOTALLY had the black Ajah covered...

"...you...thank .. him.. NOW...

THAT was one of favorite bits in the series.

"He never mentioned that! You should be thanking him from your KNEES.."


Hama wrote:
Werthead wrote:
Quote:
Donnie Yen?

Exceedingly unlikely, but not a bad idea.

The WHEEL OF TIME is our world in the future. Not just that, but it's in the future of a time when people can travel across the planet in just hours (or instantly, via Aes Sedai gateways). Cultural and ethnic differences became utterly irrelevant during the Age of Legends. During the Breaking of the World that followed people were thrown together, scattered and mixed up all over the place. During the 3,000 years since the Breaking some re-homegenisation has taken place, but along cultural lines rather than skin colour or appearance.

Whilst going strictly by the books the entire main cast would be white and Caucasian until Tuon showed up, there's actually no real or dramatic reason why that needs to be the case. You could quite easily cast Nynaeve (who's always felt an outsider in the Two Rivers anyway) with an actress of colour with no bearing on the narrative at all. Or Lan, with more textual support as the Borderlands do seem to have attracted a lot of people in the WoT world of Asian descent.

The only people who do really need to be distinctive are the Aiel, who were actually the only race of people to retain their own appearance and culture even during the Age of Legends.

Except that all characters were described as white, a lot.

Even Aiel are just tanned because of the sun.

Yeah, but it's not like the story depends on it being white. Everyone was white in fantasy when Wheel of Time started out. Times have changed. And considering they'll be changing stuff, anyways (it's an adaptation), it'd be silly to scramble to follow an unrealistic homogeneity just to try to get everything "by the book".

In a perfect world, I'd say a colorblind casting would be the way to go. But "colorblind casting" always seems to be code for "gosh I guess all the best actors happened to be white!". We'll see how it goes. :)


Crisischild wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
Crisischild wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:
I wonder if they'll change up how the women were portrayed. They were a bit stereotypicaly irrational during most of the books, with few exceptions.
TBH all of the main characters were utter morons through the entire series. It's one of the series glaring weaknesses.

** spoiler omitted **

Jordan did a really valliant attempt at being inclusive to women in his books, but sometimes it really feels like he never met one.

True, and fair enough.

The WOT women were very fetishized. Jordan obviously had a certain view on women he liked very much. Women hold almost all authority and power. Most all women domineer and berate all the men around them all the time, no matter the position or situation of those involved. All women considered men to be fools. Women frequently ended up naked together with no qualms and it seemed like many of the women specific activities in the books called for them to take off their clothes. A lot of domination/submission between women. More than a few of the female cast received spankings from, you guessed it, other women. That they were irrational is really the least of it, everyone was irrational.

Some of that would probably need to be changed for a TV series. IDK. I think Jordan pinned for a strong matriarchal Earth.

Haha, and then there's this. Shows don't have to mimic everything from the book, and I've never heard anything regarding gender and Wheel of Time that wasn't at least a little bit silly.

Of course, I'm sure even the tiniest change would have a certain crowd decrying "sexism" and "political correctness". And, just to be balanced to avoid derailing this thread crazymuch, failing to make changes will probably have a similarly volatile reaction from the opposing factions.

*Backs away from thread slowly*


I envisioned very few of the characters besides the Two-Rivers crew as white when I was reading it, which is weird because at that age I imagined everyone as white unless specifically stated otherwise. And often even afterwards as it slipped out of memory.

Lan was always VERY Asian in appearance to me, especially.

Crisischild wrote:
More than a few of the female cast received spankings from, you guessed it, other women. That they were irrational is really the least of it, everyone was irrational.

To be fair, there were ample spankings delivered by men as well.

Though you can't really blame Mat.


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Mat was a gambler in a world where women who couldn't use magic to control him got huffy and upset about it, and threw mud at him just to test the limits of how much control they could exert. His womanizing ways aside, I can't really blame Mat for much of anything when women are involved. XD


Weird thought: You know, thinking about it, Rand is the only relatively modern fantasy hero I can think of who has multiple wives and essentially a harem of women.

Usually that's a villain thing.

Sovereign Court

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Sundakan wrote:
Weird thought: You know, thinking about it, Rand is the only relatively modern fantasy hero I can think of who has multiple wives and essentially a harem of women.

Well - outside of anime.

Sovereign Court

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
In a perfect world, I'd say a colorblind casting would be the way to go. But "colorblind casting" always seems to be code for "gosh I guess all the best actors happened to be white!". We'll see how it goes. :)

I don't care if they're all white - but the books make a big deal out of various characters' nationalities, so they should make the people from various nations of consistent ethnicity.

Though - I could have sworn that Mat's wife Tuon was black. And I don't think that The Sea Folk were white either.


Joke Response: Fantasy Hero isn't the same thing as Wish Fulfillment Hero.

Serious Response: Should be interesting to see how the show handles that. XD And what people's responses will be.


A big deal was made about Tuon's ebony skin being a mark of her nobility, as I recall. And the Sea Folk were described as dark skinned (though potentially just very heavily tanned...but I'm with the people up thread saying they were likely naturally pigment rich, as it were). And bare naked to the waist besides!

Rednal wrote:

Joke Response: Fantasy Hero isn't the same thing as Wish Fulfillment Hero.

Serious Response: Should be interesting to see how the show handles that. XD And what people's responses will be.

Are you kidding? They'll lap it up. It's all the drama of a love triangle, with a conclusion that leaves EVERY ship un-sunk!


Maybe I just don't have enough faith in humanity, but I'm kind of expecting lots of cries about it being sexist wish-fulfillment, while largely ignoring the general strength with which women in the series are portrayed. XD

Sovereign Court

Sundakan wrote:
(though potentially just very heavily tanned...but I'm with the people up thread saying they were likely naturally pigment rich, as it were)

While they would no doubt be tan, unlike the Aiel, I don't see why they would be tanner than farmers and non-Sea Folk sailors.

And the Aiel thing was mostly done so that Rand didn't stand out too obviously his whole childhood.


GM Rednal wrote:
Mat was a gambler in a world where women who couldn't use magic to control him got huffy and upset about it, and threw mud at him just to test the limits of how much control they could exert. His womanizing ways aside, I can't really blame Mat for much of anything when women are involved. XD

Well, yeah, it's folly to blame a character for authorial decisions. :P

Rednal wrote:

while largely ignoring the general strength with which women in the series are portrayed. XD

In light of all the posts here basically saying, "They didn't exactly do a great job with women", I'm guessing a lot of people "failed to notice" that "general strength" you saw. ;)

EDIT: As seen below, case in point. I'm not saying the portrayal was bad, but it seems foolish to use that controversial portrayal as evidence that other controversial aspects of the story are okay.

I wouldn't go freaking out about political correctness gone mad just yet, though. Big Love made it to its final season, after all. I'm sure Wheel of Time's ending will not be what causes the darn SJWs to ruin your show. :P

Scarab Sages

The problem I've always had with the series was that the charector growth of the men always seemed to tic upwards while the woman always seemed to tic downwards. With a few exceptions of course.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Hm... casually excited about this.

A lot of my caring is going to depend on who they cast as Mat and how well that actor handles the role. Mat is one of my favorite fantasy characters ever. His and Tuon's relationship is brilliant, and I think Mat has the best way of defining what love is ever.

Spoiler:
Paraphrased: "You saw me step out of hiding with a knife ready to throw in your direction... and you turned around to see who I was aiming at. If that isn't love, I don't know what is."

I should care more about Rand - being that I am myself polyamorous and his is one of the only positively-portrayed polyamorous relationships I've ever seen in fiction* - but as much as I like his girlfriends, I never found Rand himself that interesting. Well... Until his epic speech at the very end. And that was more about the people he was talking about than about him.

Spoiler:
"You've missed something, though. The man whose kingdom you stole. The man you took everything from. That man still lives."

*Outside of anime, but even there... let's just say varying degrees of "positive". Anyone who wants another good written example, though, and has seen the anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, should check out the fan novel "Kyon: Big D*** Hero".


So uhhh, with that self-censorship there I'm not sure whether that's supposed to be an action story or an H novel...


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Haha. "amn". It's an action story.


I am intrigued by these rumors, and only hope it manages to land somewhere like AMC or Showtime, and not, say...MTV.

The big problem with WoT is just the incredibly sluggish pace the books maintain, and the proliferation of subplots that take forever to be resolved (if that?) and the continual resurrection of characters. A TV series, which I assume will have 10 eps per season and maybe only 5-8 seasons will have to significantly streamline the books. This is one case where that is absolutely a good thing.


Well, a big chunk of the plodding pace of the individual books was due to him indulging in overly detailed descriptions of people and objects, particularly clothing. So that's a good 100, maybe 200 pages per book cut right there.


MMCJawa wrote:

I am intrigued by these rumors, and only hope it manages to land somewhere like AMC or Showtime, and not, say...MTV.

The big problem with WoT is just the incredibly sluggish pace the books maintain, and the proliferation of subplots that take forever to be resolved (if that?) and the continual resurrection of characters. A TV series, which I assume will have 10 eps per season and maybe only 5-8 seasons will have to significantly streamline the books. This is one case where that is absolutely a good thing.

These problems are not inherent in the book, tough. They aren't there on the first ones. Jordan deliberately took detours and unnecessary plot twists in order to milk more money out of the franchise - or so people say.

The Exchange

Charon's Little Helper wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
Quote:
..by another male channeler. Who themselves is going to get lynched. So that doesn't work at all. It was a pretty intensive 5 minute procces that took the focus of the guy being tested.
Nuh-ah. Women can detect male channelers, and vice-versa.

No.

No they can't.

Male channelers can tell when a woman in channeling in their general vicinity but not who it is.

Female channelers can sense nothing from men.

Have you even read the books?

From the wikipedia page on the One Power:

Quote:
Female channelers can tell when other women are touching the Source: a white glowing aura appears around their body, though only visible to those trained to touch the One Power. It is also relatively easy for them to gauge each other's strength in the Power. Men on the other hand can only sense intuitively when another man is channeling (and roughly how much of the power they are wielding). Male channelers can sense a woman holding saidar as goose bumps on their skin; women have no innate method of sensing male channeling, though certain ter'angreal and weaves have been crafted which do the job for them.

So. They can do it with weaves. Sensing channeling is not exactly the same as sensing the ability to channel, but I'm sure with some thought going into the process, especially with the kind of knowledge they had at the end of the age of legends, a practical method could be devised.

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Rednal wrote:
Ahahahaha... XD Yeah, thinking back, Jordan probably could have cooled off on the Men vs Women dynamic a bit. I mean, I'm totally fine with the "no weak women" thing going on, but there's a difference between having confident characters and ones that are deliberately ungrateful when they get help.

Bridgette did smack some sense into them over that.

"so he broke you out of the most impregnable fortress on the planet while it was being attacked by black veiled Aiel??!?!?!?!

"Well its not like he knew about the forsaken

"Right. And we TOTALLY had the black Ajah covered...

"...you...thank .. him.. NOW...

Correct me if I'm wrong, books and events do blend together when you read so much of them in such close proximity, but that was in Sanderon's era, right?

I think the entire discussion of the war of the sexes can pretty much leave the last three books out, in which it becomes almost a non-issue.


Sundakan wrote:

Calling that a "battle" always seemed too much of a glorification to me. That was a f$##ing SLAUGHTER.

So yes, yes I do.

Slaughter of a grand scale. :)

Also to quote my favor line "Kneel! Or you will be made to kneel!"

The Exchange

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TheNine wrote:
The problem I've always had with the series was that the charector growth of the men always seemed to tic upwards while the woman always seemed to tic downwards. With a few exceptions of course.

As a matter of fact, I have made a fun little graph of this recently. It pretty much agrees with you ;)

Scarab Sages

Thomas Seitz wrote:
Sundakan wrote:

Calling that a "battle" always seemed too much of a glorification to me. That was a f$##ing SLAUGHTER.

So yes, yes I do.

Slaughter of a grand scale. :)

Also to quote my favor line "Kneel! Or you will be made to kneel!"

That was a good line indeed, though to be fair The battle of Dumai wells started out as a battle... well until Some dudes in black shirts arrived and started a ruckus


Lord snow,

There is a difference between channelER and channelING. Big difference.

Those weaves also probably weren't developed until well into the breaking. It was a newish discovery by someone in salidar.

So all an insane despot to be has to do to avoid detection is not channel around a woman who can channel AND knows a very rare weave. As opposed to a woman who can just pass another woman in the grocery store and the quickening goes off.

The Exchange

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Lord snow,

There is a difference between channelER and channelING. Big difference.

Those weaves also probably weren't developed until well into the breaking. It was a newish discovery by someone in salidar.

So all an insane despot to be has to do to avoid detection is not channel around a woman who can channel AND knows a very rare weave. As opposed to a woman who can just pass another woman in the grocery store and the quickening goes off.

Don't be absurd. There are no grocery stores in the Wheel of Time series.


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Lord Snow wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Rednal wrote:
Ahahahaha... XD Yeah, thinking back, Jordan probably could have cooled off on the Men vs Women dynamic a bit. I mean, I'm totally fine with the "no weak women" thing going on, but there's a difference between having confident characters and ones that are deliberately ungrateful when they get help.

Bridgette did smack some sense into them over that.

"so he broke you out of the most impregnable fortress on the planet while it was being attacked by black veiled Aiel??!?!?!?!

"Well its not like he knew about the forsaken

"Right. And we TOTALLY had the black Ajah covered...

"...you...thank .. him.. NOW...

Correct me if I'm wrong, books and events do blend together when you read so much of them in such close proximity, but that was in Sanderon's era, right?

I think the entire discussion of the war of the sexes can pretty much leave the last three books out, in which it becomes almost a non-issue.

Don't think so. It was while they were in Ebou Dar, looking for the Bowl, IIRC.


thejeff wrote:
Lord Snow wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Rednal wrote:
Ahahahaha... XD Yeah, thinking back, Jordan probably could have cooled off on the Men vs Women dynamic a bit. I mean, I'm totally fine with the "no weak women" thing going on, but there's a difference between having confident characters and ones that are deliberately ungrateful when they get help.

Bridgette did smack some sense into them over that.

"so he broke you out of the most impregnable fortress on the planet while it was being attacked by black veiled Aiel??!?!?!?!

"Well its not like he knew about the forsaken

"Right. And we TOTALLY had the black Ajah covered...

"...you...thank .. him.. NOW...

Correct me if I'm wrong, books and events do blend together when you read so much of them in such close proximity, but that was in Sanderon's era, right?

I think the entire discussion of the war of the sexes can pretty much leave the last three books out, in which it becomes almost a non-issue.

Don't think so. It was while they were in Ebou Dar, looking for the Bowl, IIRC.

This was well before Sandorsen - he only wrote the last 3 - and even those had large sections that Jordan wrote and he fit in.

I checked out of my own curiosity - it's in Crown of Swords (book 7), between 1/2way and 2/3 through.

Sovereign Court

I've gotta say - while there are things I like about Sanderson - his whole schtick is starting with a defined fantasy magic system. And then having the main characters take it up to 11. And then 13. And then 18...

It gets old. I think that an author can get away with breaking their own world's rules ONCE. Either that or make it less well defined/more subjective. (that's how Dresden gets away with always being just barely powerful enough to win a fight)

And he did the same with The Wheel of Time. While there were things I don't like about Jordan, he never really broke his own world's rules like that. Sure Rand pulled stuff out of his hat - but that was all foreshadowed & well explained.


I'm predicting a twist: the show's direction is influenced by the massively successful and similarly named "Wheel of Fortune ".


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*Spins wheel, it stops on BALEFIRE tile*

Sajak: Oh, sorry...*really bright light*
Everyone else: "Why didn't we have a 3rd contestant?"

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