Investigator advice


Advice


I'm building a dex-based investigator to replace a character that recently died. I have a general idea of where I want to go with it (dazzling display for early crowd control then dex-based Meele). My question is since I'll be starting at level 8 is it more beneficial to take a level of inspired blade swashbuckler for easy access to the fencing grace feat or should I just take all of my levels in investigator and buy an agile weapon?

Liberty's Edge

Neither. As an 8th level character, you can just afford the Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, and Fencing Grace from your base Feats. Plus Dazzling Display. Especially if Human.

Take all your levels in Investigator and do that. You'll even have a Feat left over for Extra Investigator Talent if Human.

Though...thinking about it, I might grab Enforcer either in addition to or instead of Dazzling Display. You can afford a Merciful Rapier, and if you do that and grab Sickening Offensive (and you should, it's delightful) you can impose Shaken and Sickened on everyone you hit. Which is hilarious.


I agree with Deadmanwalking, go all investigator. The inspired blade is more to get fast entry to dex to damage to help out the early levels than overall useful to the build.

But I'm not sure how useful Dazzling display would be, at lv8 an investigator has really come into it's own and is an offensive powerhouse. And at lv8 I'm not sure how useful AoE shaken will be.


The general idea with intimidate it to take signature skill to add on frightened or panicked. The only real reason I want to do that is to give myself an extra niche in combat as we already have a pretty combat heavy party (with mythic tiers that I'd still have to earn).

I'm considering an agile weapon just to open more feat space. The way the GM does weapons makes it relatively simple and cheap to get one (any purchase of a +1 also comes free with an ability).

Grand Lodge

I'm a fan of feats as buying a single weapon to do your needs is like putting all your eggs in 1 basket. The moment your sundered or disarmed your done. With the feats draw a backup weapon and keep going.


Fair enough. What if I bought an agile weapon and then just got mythic weapon finesse when I get my tiers (1-2 sessions from now)?


With those houserules in effect it's hard to give accurate advice without knowing all of them. Like if you're saying that a +1 agile only costs 2000 instead of 8000 then yes, it's suddenly a more attractive option.


Yeah. That's exactly what the house rule does.


I don't know what your overall concept is, but if going Agile, an Agile elven curved blade is by far the most powerful dex-to-damage option due to two-handed Power Attack and better weapon dice. It does mean needing two hands though.

One thing about Agile though, even in this "free" situation, is that you're still taking Agile instead of something else like Corrosive. Spending a feat on Fencing Grace in this situation is getting you the option of an additional +1d6(acid), or free Keen, or whatever else because you don't need to spend your freebie on Agile.


I'm going with a rapier or a shorts word so I can put the inspired enchantment on it.


BadBird wrote:
I don't know what your overall concept is, but if going Agile, an Agile elven curved blade is by far the most powerful dex-to-damage option due to two-handed Power Attack and better weapon dice. It does mean needing two hands though.

The Estoc is awfully close when it comes to damage, being only 0.5 points behind on average. In exchange for that loss you get the ability to wield it one handed or two handed as needed. But neither weapon can have the Inspired special ability.

Sovereign Court

Gisher wrote:
BadBird wrote:
I don't know what your overall concept is, but if going Agile, an Agile elven curved blade is by far the most powerful dex-to-damage option due to two-handed Power Attack and better weapon dice. It does mean needing two hands though.
The Estoc is awfully close when it comes to damage, being only 0.5 points behind on average. In exchange for that loss you get the ability to wield it one handed or two handed as needed. But neither weapon can have the Inspired special ability.

Though DR/Slashing is actually somewhat frequent (zombies, various plants), so that's a point in favor of the curve blade.


Cass_Ponderovian wrote:
I'm going with a rapier or a shorts word so I can put the inspired enchantment on it.

If you're using Inspired, I'd definitely get the feat instead of using Agile as well. Needing Agile means you're then missing out on +1 enhancement, and so taking Fencing Grace instead is like gaining +1 enhancement through a feat.

Scarab Sages

In this instance, going all Investigator and taking Fencing Grace does seem to make sense. You could have dex to damage and an Inspired rapier right from the start. It also means you'll be able to get other, good enhancements on the weapon. I'd stay away from abilities like Corrosive. 1d6 of energy damage just isn't worth the cost. Eventually things will have 5-10 points of energy resistance or immunity. Although acid is probably one of the better ones to have, something like Dueling or Menacing will go a lot farther in the long run.

Sovereign Court

If you take Fencing Grace "the hard way", that means you also have real Weapon Finesse, not the "rapiers only" variant.

That becomes nice in case you want to occasionally use Monstrous Physique to turn into a monster with lots of natural attacks like a Charda, or when you've been swallowed whole and need to cut your way out with a light weapon.

Since Barkskin is on your spell list, you have a lot of freedom on what to put in your neck slots. Good options are Swarmbane Clasp, Talisman of Life's Breath and the Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists.


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You totally want a good potion of heroism.
then you use ALL your lv2 slots for alchemical allocation and Barkskin.
It's a +2 to hit and saving throws and a good AC booster.
Personally I combo it with the lv1 extract of Hightened Awareness that increases you knowledge checks and your perception.
Thats a +4 to knowledges and perception, +2 to all other skills, and great combat boosters.


Ascalaphus wrote:
Gisher wrote:
BadBird wrote:
I don't know what your overall concept is, but if going Agile, an Agile elven curved blade is by far the most powerful dex-to-damage option due to two-handed Power Attack and better weapon dice. It does mean needing two hands though.
The Estoc is awfully close when it comes to damage, being only 0.5 points behind on average. In exchange for that loss you get the ability to wield it one handed or two handed as needed. But neither weapon can have the Inspired special ability.
Though DR/Slashing is actually somewhat frequent (zombies, various plants), so that's a point in favor of the curve blade.

Good point. And for Elves and Half-Elves, being able to get proficiency with an Elven Curve Blade for free with many classes (although not Investigator) is a huge selling point.


Chess Pwn wrote:

You totally want a good potion of heroism.

then you use ALL your lv2 slots for alchemical allocation and Barkskin.
It's a +2 to hit and saving throws and a good AC booster.
Personally I combo it with the lv1 extract of Hightened Awareness that increases you knowledge checks and your perception.
Thats a +4 to knowledges and perception, +2 to all other skills, and great combat boosters.

That is a really interesting approach. I can see the advantages.


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And the buffs last a long time too.
At lv6 it's an hour long of each. Add in the (str)mutagen which has the same duration and factor in your swift triggered studdied combat and you're looking at total of

+7 to attack rolls
+5/6 to damage rolls
+5 to AC
+2 to saves
+1 to int based non-knowledge non-perception skills
+3 to knowledge skills and perception
+2 to all other skills

For an hour. And most of this scales up as you level.

*I have a PFS lv12 Empericist that did this. It was amazing.


Now my trouble is figuring out feats. After I get dex to damage nothing excites me in terms of combat feats. I want this character to be really good at skills (maybe a drug dealer ala Walter White or a mafia don).


Amateur Swashbuckler lets you use a Sword Master's Flair: Blue Scarf, which is pretty fantastic. Dodging Panache is pretty useful for the actual deed, though you'd maybe need Extra Panache to use it reliably. Pommel Strike might actually be kind of nice with the whole study/inspiration thing giving you a huge attack roll to knock down - interestingly it's not a trip, so it doesn't have the normal aids or issues trip does. I guess you could get Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver: Pommel Strike.


When considering mythic weapon finesse, keep in mind that it does not have the one-handed limitation - you should be able to add 1.5 dex to damage when two-handing your weapon. This makes Estoc or ECB very nice alternatives to the rapier (consistent damage).

And then, esp. when two-handing, Power Attack and its mythic pendant are must-haves. At level 10 or 11 you are hitting everything rather easily, if built and played "well".


Extra Investigator Talent is great. Going down one of the Talent Trees can really flesh out your character. I had an Investigator that went crazy on Inspiration and ended up with Tenacious Inspiration, Expanded Inspiration, Amazing Inspiration.... Guy was throwing around Inspiration like it was free and taking the best of TWO d8 rolls everytime? Amazing fun and useful both in and out of combat.

Maybe you'll take Underground Inspiration if you want to mimic Walter White?

For archetypes, consider the Empriricst or the Mastermind maybe?


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My favorite archetype is from Heroes of the Streets: the Lamplighter. The additional extracts (Searing Light at 8th, Judgement Light at 11th) are fun and thematic, but the initiative boosts are just crazy fantastic!

Spoiler:
Ready for the Revelation (Ex): At 3rd level, a lamplighter can use inspiration on initiative checks without spending a use of inspiration. He can use his Intelligence modifier in place of his Dexterity modifier on initiative checks. At 6th level, if the lamplighter has Quick Draw, he can draw a weapon as part of his initiative check. At 9th level, the lamplighter isn’t flat-footed before he acts in the first round of combat. At 12th level, the lamplighter adds his Intelligence bonus as well as his Dexterity bonus to initiative checks. At 15th level, the lamplighter can act last during the surprise round even if he is otherwise unaware combat has started. At 18th level, the lamplighter is not limited to just a move or standard action during the surprise round—he can act normally. This ability replaces keen recollection and trap sense.


Are there any high crit simple two handed weapons? I guess the longspear is the best bet for a str investigator


Fourshadow wrote:

My favorite archetype is from Heroes of the Streets: the Lamplighter. The additional extracts (Searing Light at 8th, Judgement Light at 11th) are fun and thematic, but the initiative boosts are just crazy fantastic!

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks for this. I just decided to change my archtype from empiricist to lamplighter.

Sovereign Court

Woodoodoo wrote:
Are there any high crit simple two handed weapons? I guess the longspear is the best bet for a str investigator

Nope. Cestus is about as good as it gets - the mithral cestus is actually a very good backup weapon for an investigator with a longspear, because there's no hassle with juggling multiple weapons. You just take one hand off you spear and punch someone.

But really, critical hits are relatively unimportant for investigators, because studied combat is precision damage.

I mean, it's always nice to get a crit, but you don't get that much out of it, compared to other classes. So it's not worth it to really go out of your way for it.


I was thinking if I went for inspired weapon with combat inspiration.


Woodoodoo wrote:
Are there any high crit simple two handed weapons? I guess the longspear is the best bet for a str investigator

fauchard has 18-20/×2 and you can buy proficiency with opalescent white pyramid ioun stone (for 3 000 gp if you do not mind -2 penalty to dexterity).

I plan to enhance adamantine longspear with transformative (simple +10 000 gp) to be able to change it to other two-handed weapons (and get more ioun stones) so I will overcome damage reductions. If there will be antimagic field it will swap back to longspear.

Sovereign Court

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My evil-outsider-bane adamantine longspear is Shrinking so it fits in my Pathfinder Pouch. I'm quite prepared for PFS dinner parties.


Hmm not sure if paying the full 10k price is worth it for transformative. I am still really debating whether to make my investigator str or dex based though. I think str is overall more damage but dex does give a bit more defences even though I think the defences on a str investigator are pretty strong either way. Then there is the dilemma of taking the one level of inspired blade swashbuckler for rapier awesomeness but that kind of locks you out of using your polymorph extracts... But isn't strength better for shapeshifting anyways?

Sovereign Court

With a strength-based investigator at L9 I was getting up to AC 37 and 50% displacement. That was for an extreme fight with prebuffing though, normally I'm at 30 or so. So don't worry that going Str-based is suicide.


Were you just using a longspear or something? And going with an inspired weapon/combat inspiration?


That's what I did with my investigator.

Sovereign Court

Longspear, but I ignored inspiration almost completely. Enchanting weapons is expensive and Bane (evil outsider) was far more important.


I just cant help but think how amazing combat inspiration+inspired weapon will be for a high crit weapon.


It's pretty awesome even with a 20 x3 weapon, like the longspear.

Sovereign Court

For some weird reason I've actually only gotten a crit once (in 9 levels), but that was for 83 damage. Not too shabby for a "simple" weapon or a "skill monkey" class. High strength and power attack on a 2H weapon are sustainable resources that let you keep going all day long.


I played with my newly created lvl 7 strenght based investigator over the weekend. And I got to say it was pretty damn great. Lots of damage, all the skills, amazing defences. Can't wait for it to get a higher level.

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