Liberty's Blessing Domain Power: 60+ Rerolls per day?


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Quote:
Liberty’s Blessing (Sp): You touch a willing creature as a standard action, granting it a boon. A creature with this boon can, as a swift action, make a saving throw against a single spell or effect it is suffering from that grants a save. The DC of the saving throw is equal to the original DC of the spell or effect. If the saving throw is successful, the effect ends. This boon lasts for 1 minute or until successfully used to remove a spell or effect, whichever duration is shorter. You can use this ability for a number of times equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.

From Liberation [Freedom] domain/subdomain.

I read through a few threads on this, but none with the question I want to ask.

Please note the bolded sentence. As written, this ability does not grant one re-roll; it grants as many re-rolls as you can fit into a minute, or until you succeed. So, as many as 10 re-rolls against a particularly bad affliction/effect that might normally only allow one save. And that's for each use of the ability. So, up to 10x(3+WIS) rerolls per day.

Do you think this is RAI? Hoping not, but would like to hear other opinions.


It's intended to be an auto-success to end a single effect. So, yeah, 60 rerolls a day seems about right

Sovereign Court

Oh, wow. That is even better than I thought it is. Because even if you only get one reroll per use, that's still super good against curses and such that normally require advanced spells to remove.


Seems fine to me


Funnily enough, I dont think this works on flesh to stone because you are no longer a creature

Sovereign Court

It also doesn't work on Flesh to Stone because you have to be conscious to spend swift actions to roll. Same thing that stops you from using it against dazed and stunned (though it does work on paralyzed).

Dark Archive

or with confusion (must be willing creature).


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Or nausea.


Works on lycanthropy though! Even years later... Wow good find on an effective way to cure afflicted lycanthropes.


Covent wrote:
Works on lycanthropy though! Even years later... Wow good find on an effective way to cure afflicted lycanthropes.

I'd question whether someone who has been afflicted for years, and hasn't been hunted down and killed already, would be a willing target to have the affliction removed - but that is a RP point, not a rules point.


bbangerter wrote:
Covent wrote:
Works on lycanthropy though! Even years later... Wow good find on an effective way to cure afflicted lycanthropes.
I'd question whether someone who has been afflicted for years, and hasn't been hunted down and killed already, would be a willing target to have the affliction removed - but that is a RP point, not a rules point.

Only if willing of course. Say someone that is fighting the curse and chaining themselves up every full moon plus living in an isolated area to avoid others.

Sovereign Court

As a player you should probably be sensitive to the plight of GMs when dealing with plot-central afflictions. For example, using this power to get rid of a curse with a long story behind it that was supposed to be the motivation to go on an adventure to find the cure.

With very open-ended powers comes great player responsibility :P


Ascalaphus wrote:

As a player you should probably be sensitive to the plight of GMs when dealing with plot-central afflictions. For example, using this power to get rid of a curse with a long story behind it that was supposed to be the motivation to go on an adventure to find the cure.

With very open-ended powers comes great player responsibility :P

You can make curses with no save lol


Oxylepy wrote:
It's intended to be an auto-success to end a single effect.

With respect, if you think a power useable at 1st level is supposed to be an "auto-success" to end almost any effect (I say almost, because their are exceptions as pointed out), then either:

1) You are honestly mistaken about the intent.

2) The writer of the ability has absolutely zero concept of mechanical balance.

Every other mechanism that I'm able to think of that ends negative status effects is either:

* Targeted at a specific type of effect

* Ends only effects that are temporary anyway

* Requires a successful roll, which you only get one of.

* Very costly in terms of material resources.

The lycanthropy example alone shows how absurd this is. One more for my GM nerf into reasonableness list.


Curses and whatnot are mostly "the game stops until we can go to a big enough town to fix this" any way, so this is mostly just a get back to playing move.

There are lots of more broken things, so no clue on whatever you are claiming about balance

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber

I don't think it applies to permanent effects. The "single spell or effect it is suffering" terminology implies one with a duration that can be shortened.


KingOfAnything wrote:
I don't think it applies to permanent effects. The "single spell or effect it is suffering" terminology implies one with a duration that can be shortened.

Hmm... Is that true by RAW? If so, it does alleviate many of my more serious concerns.

If not true by RAW, seems a good balanced way to "nerf" it anyway for my own use.

Sovereign Court

KingOfAnything wrote:
I don't think it applies to permanent effects. The "single spell or effect it is suffering" terminology implies one with a duration that can be shortened.

I really don't see how that follows. You can suffer from ongoing/permanent effects too.


Ascalaphus wrote:
KingOfAnything wrote:
I don't think it applies to permanent effects. The "single spell or effect it is suffering" terminology implies one with a duration that can be shortened.
I really don't see how that follows. You can suffer from ongoing/permanent effects too.

personally I'd rule that if it's dispel-able by dispel magic, remove curse, remove disease...then I'd allow it.


It's still at the same DC as the original roll, though. If you happened to roll a one when you needed a two to save, then this will help you a lot. If you need a high roll to succeed, you may be rolling a while. Ten re-rolls may not even succeed or may not succeed until after combat ends. Seems like a perfectly fine power to me.

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