Baleful Polymorph Clarification

[Mephistopholoid]

Is it just me, or does Baleful Polymorph feel ridiculously aesthetic for any active player, and really only affects Civilian NPC's?

It functions as Beast-Shape III, which is a pretty useful spell. It makes you small or smaller, retaining all your physical statistics (save for a -4 to Str at worst for Diminutive), and lets you keep all active enhancement items in full function, as well as ups your Dex and adds Natural Armor, albeit at a +1.

You also keep your BAB, all class abilities that aren't magical, all saves, and skills. Essentially leaving you completely intact.

This new form suffers a minor -2, to the Str modifier, at it's WORST, and then has one other hurdle to jump: A Will Save high enough to keep your own mind, lest you gain the mental attributes of the creature.

This spell is gained around Level 11, but probably not chosen as the Caster's FIRST spell, so say it's used around 12 or 13? A capable fighter by that point, say with even a 16 or 17 in Str, could have gained a Str of 22 to 25, depending on the availability of Wondrous Items. A Belt of +4 is easily affordable by then; a Human can drop +2 into Strength, 3 Level Points into it, and a +4 belt... off a 16 that's a solid 25.

So now the downside, failing the Will save you get a Squirrel with a 21 Str and whatever Dex the character had, +6, with a +1 nat armor bonus, and a BAB of 12 or 13. This is now a squirrel that hits at 17 or 18, and if the Caster who morphed it goes to grab it, it's a Squirrel that can actually kick this Caster's ass since their HP is s#*$ and they wear no armor.

What about a Dragon with a Str of 27 and a powerful Will Save? An Adult Blue Dragon has a Will Save of +13, with a 10 average on a d20, and this spell only being around, keeping with established numbers, say 21? This save is easily beaten, so if the Dragon fails the Fort (somehow) and succeeds the Will, you have a Squirrel with a Str of 23 and ALL IT'S MAGIC!

If this was cast on another Caster (low Fort high Will), you get a BOON, because your s%!$ty Medium sized Body had nothing in terms of defense, but now with all your BAB, HD, and Spells (since the Will save was successful), you also get a +6 to Dex and a +1 to Natural armor. You can spend a fourth of the gold to produce Mithril Armor with bonuses, maybe a chain shirt with +2 bonus, so +6 armor, and you can snag a still spell feat (that you retain) to just throw Spell Failure to the wind.

You are now a harder to hit than you were, Casting rodent, that can camp out in another player's satchel and cast in secret.

How is this Baleful? How is this remotely bad? You either create a Goose-Hulk, or Rat-Merlin.

Where's the actual spell that can do this? Where the real terrifying Evil Caster spell that you see in movies like Willow, where the Witch or Sorcerer can ACTUALLY transform people into harmless animals? Because this spell is a minor inconvenience at best, which is sad for something so far into the Spell Tiers.

[Pizza Lord]

All your gear would be melded, inaccessible. No grabbing your wands or potions or scrolls.

As a wizard-rat you also can't talk, so you'd need Silent Spell in addition to Still Spell for somatic components. Your component pouch would be inaccessible and even if you could get most of the materials, carrying them is not a likely option, so that's Eschew Materials needed also.

For warriors or dragons, sure their strength may be incredible, but typically you're looking at one attack, a bite or a claw. It doesn't matter if you normally get 4 attacks from high BAB, you just get one attack, and it's probably at 1d2 damage. Yes, Str will help, but it's unlikely it will be more damage than normal.

You also lose your reach, you have to run into an opponent's square to attack them, and yes the AC bonus from size and Dex increase help but it's probably only offsetting the AC you lost from armor. That's still a pretty big risk, since they can just 5-foot step away every round and force you to do it again.

I don't see too many diminutive animals, but a Hedgehog doesn't even seem to get an attack. Presumably a mouse would fall in that same range, being smaller than a Rat which is tiny. At the most maybe a bite attack of 1 to 1d2. A monk in that form may still have flurry, but it doesn't apply to bite attacks.

I don't necessarily like how it's written out either, but it's certainly no walk in the park for anyone.

[Claxon]

You turn into a 1 HD animal (not even magical beast) that is small size or smaller. You loose the ability to speak, use weapons, it basically means you can't fight at all. If you happen to use unarmed strikes you might be okay. Any items the require activation are inaccessible and cannot be activated.

It's not a fun time.

And remember, the caster gets to choose what you turn into.

Lets see...oh how about a sloth? Tiny animal that has a 5ft movement speed. Good luck doing anything with that. You have to enter into an opponents square to attack them with the natural attacks the form has, but good luck catching anyone to do so. And unless you have some way to easily and on the fly apply silent spell to all your spells and use eschew materials, you can't cast any spells either.

[2ndGenerationCleric]

This spell is the reason my players are in possession of a Phase Turtle, as the phase spider failed the Fort but made the Will save

[BigNorseWolf]

Threw this on a wizard with freedom of movement, fire shield, and mirror image up.

After missing both saves, there were 7 turtles heading towards the koi pond that could not be stopped! their inevitable march to boil themselves with their own fire was as tragic as it was delicious.

[Jeff Morse]

just had a low experienced player join the group. he cast it at an ancient umbral dragon. i had planed on encounter taking hours, nope, failed both saves. a really scared bunny went running off. everyone laughed, because most would not even had tried it.

[skizzerz]

I have a player who wanted to use this as part of his backstory (aka he was turned into a stoat and subsequently managed to escape). By RAW, a spellcaster is completely screwed if they get baleful polymorphed -- in order to cast anything they need still spell and silent spell (you can't do somatic components in a form different from your natural one either). You need Eschew Materials as well unless you acquire a new component pouch or qualify for Natural Spell. For that PC, I needed to houserule Natural Spell's prereqs in order for him to take it since he wasn't playing a Druid, and he picked up a Ring of Eloquence so that he could talk to the party.

I think a martial would be even more screwed, you typically just get a single natural attack, meaning no iteratives at high BAB and the damage is also generally crap. Good for creating distractions I guess, but certainly not a viable strategy for upping DPR.

[Mephistopholoid]

2ndGenerationCleric wrote:

This spell is the reason my players are in possession of a Phase Turtle, as the phase spider failed the Fort but made the Will save

You turn into an -animal- that has 1HD, but you get ALL your HD, and class abilities that aren't magical. You keep the magic ones if you pass the save.