Season 7 Available Race question (nagaji):


Pathfinder Society

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Grand Lodge 2/5 Venture-Agent, North Carolina—Waynesville

As long as I create a Nagaji PC before they are no longer available, I can continue to play the PC after the available race list changes in the PFS Guide, right?

I am understanding this correctly or am I mistaken?

Grand Lodge 2/5

Usually that is the case. If you're worried about that, getting at least 4 xp is the safest way to assume that, going off of previous accounts.

1/5

yup, you're right.

Scarab Sages

Are Tengu/Nagaji/Wayang/Kitsune being retired next season? I haven't seen any announcements.

2/5

It's more than just creating a PC. If it has no XP yet it doesn't mean anything. It needs XP for it to count, either as played or from GM credit. How much XP might change from season to season. Typically if you play it as a level 2 character (4 XP or 3.5 XP on slow track) it'll get locked in, both that you yourself aren't able to change it (usually) and PFS most likely won't say you can't play it anymore.

2/5

Imbicatus wrote:
Are Tengu/Nagaji/Wayang/Kitsune being retired next season? I haven't seen any announcements.

I haven't seen anything indicative of that so far. The new Season 7 races don't seem very season-specific like the tiefling/aasimars did for season 5. Probably a "fear of missing the boat" thing from the OP.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

It's not out of the question. Tengu/Kitsune/Wayang/Nagaji became legal in S6, and there have been hints that campaign leadership thinks 2 years are a good amount between rotations.

Nowadays, generally grandfathering happens around the point where you've played a character with [thing] at level 2+, i.e. when you can't normally rebuild your PC anymore. GM babying it to 4 XP alone isn't necessarily enough. The PC has to be "locked in" to be safe.

3/5 5/5

I would expect any such announcement, if there is one, to take place at PaizoCon, which happens at the end of May.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Yes you can get grandfathered in. We're still working through peoples stockpiles of aasimar and tieflings here, and my Dm credits been building up a kitsune farm in case that option goes bust.

they said on know direction that that would be the sort of announcement they'd make at paizocon.

Grand Lodge 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Yes you can get grandfathered in. We're still working through peoples stockpiles of aasimar and tieflings here, and my Dm credits been building up a kitsune farm in case that option goes bust.

they said on know direction that that would be the sort of announcement they'd make at paizocon.

This. (Though, I personally wouldn't be overly surprised to see no announcement at all and requiring being played with at least 4 xp, after the Aasimar/Tiefling experience and the way the Unchained Summoner roll out happened)

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

It'll probably be a changeover from the moment of the announcement. "There will be an announcement about something" is all the advance warning you should expect.

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
It'll probably be a changeover from the moment of the announcement. "There will be an announcement about something" is all the advance warning you should expect.

Except that always available races are something that historically have aligned with the change in seasons, which happens at GenCon.

So whenever the announcement happens, the expectation would be that it would take effect at the beginning of GenCon.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

pH unbalanced wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
It'll probably be a changeover from the moment of the announcement. "There will be an announcement about something" is all the advance warning you should expect.

Except that always available races are something that historically have aligned with the change in seasons, which happens at GenCon.

So whenever the announcement happens, the expectation would be that it would take effect at the beginning of GenCon.

You gotta weigh that against the bad experiences with a period in which people could make grandfather-able characters.

Me, I think I'll play it safe and start working on my wayang cavalier while I still can.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Me, I think I'll play it safe and start working on my wayang cavalier while I still can.

I highly recommend a wayang riding a wolf. If you've got Inner Sea Combat it's a lot of fun to take Monstrous Mount and upgrade your wolf into a worg.

Scarab Sages

I don't know. You're deadly on offense, but I'd be concerned playing a race with with a Wis penalty on a poor will save class.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
You gotta weigh that against the bad experiences with a period in which people could make grandfather-able characters.

I don't really understand the mentality here. Bad experiences? You mean a whole bunch of people make aasimar and tiefling characters before they were dropped as an available race? So what? Why should I care that someone has a PC that I'm now unable to make?

I would not be in favor of requiring 4 XP on a character to grandfather it in. I know people who would be negatively impacted.

My wife has played one session of PFS using a nagaji oracle. She hasn't played in a few months. But if the ability to keep playing that character is taken away from her because she is an infrequent player, she might just choose to not play altogether.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Imbicatus wrote:
I don't know. You're deadly on offense, but I'd be concerned playing a race with with a Wis penalty on a poor will save class.

That's a good point specifically for a cavalier.

My wayang riding a worg is mostly a hunter (hunter 4, cav 1, monk (sohei) 2, fighter (lore master) 2). So at ninth level I have 1 more base will than I would have if I were a only a straight poor-will-save class.

Currently at 9 I have a will of +11 which I think isn't too bad considering only 4 of it comes from my classes.

Ability 14 (14 starting -2 racial +2 headband) -> +2
Iron Will -> +2
Cloak -> +2
Shake it off (+1 to saves for each adjacent ally that has it) (mount shares teamwork feats) -> +1

classes
Cav 1 -> +0
Hunter 4 -> +1
Monk 2 -> +3
Fighter 2 (lore warden so no bravery) -> +0

I've also got a Clear Spindle Ioun stone in a wayfinder and Animal Soul.

So yeah, for my wayang I did buy up my wisdom higher than a cavalier might, because I also wanted it for hunter casting. But I'm happy with my starting stats. It gave me a nice array.

Str 16 (up to 18 at level 8)
Dex 14 (12 + 2)
Con 14
Int 14 (12 + 2)
Wis 12 (14 - 2)
Cha 7 (the deficit in charisma is made up for in the bonus skills from a high int).

p.s. Yes, I did mention worg from Monstrous Mount which requires true neutral and I've got levels in monk, but you can become unlawful after being a monk and it just means you can't gain any more monk levels--you don't lose monk abilities gained (specifically bonus feats and evasion in my case).

p.p.s. If you look closely you'll also notice that each of those levels gives me some kind of bonus feat except for hunter 1 and hunter 4 (which give me spells).

5/5 5/55/55/5

If you want to be paranoid, i would try to get 3 xp on it and then play it at least once before then.

Scarab Sages 4/5

I have no sense of which races might be removed as legal options. I did play my Wayang for the first time at 2nd level not too long ago, so I'll hope he's safe. My Nagaji goes back to when it was a boon race and is 1 XP from 12th, so not an issue.

Tengu was actually made legal starting with Season 4 (along with Aasimars and Tieflings), I think, so that might be the more likely candidate to be removed. But it survived one round already, and it's not really overpowered or anything. I could see it being removed just to mix things up.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

My curiosity is what will they replace it with
Won't be samsaran because of the gencon boon same with rats and frogs
Vishkanya is the current race boon
Catfolk was a charity auction boon
No way will Android be legal
Gillmen is a possibility

Grand Lodge 2/5

Ferious Thune wrote:

I have no sense of which races might be removed as legal options. I did play my Wayang for the first time at 2nd level not too long ago, so I'll hope he's safe. My Nagaji goes back to when it was a boon race and is 1 XP from 12th, so not an issue.

Tengu was actually made legal starting with Season 4 (along with Aasimars and Tieflings), I think, so that might be the more likely candidate to be removed. But it survived one round already, and it's not really overpowered or anything. I could see it being removed just to mix things up.

Two. Tengu is on its third year now.

Shadow Lodge *

Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
claudekennilol wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Me, I think I'll play it safe and start working on my wayang cavalier while I still can.
I highly recommend a wayang riding a wolf. If you've got Inner Sea Combat it's a lot of fun to take Monstrous Mount and upgrade your wolf into a worg.

Ooo! I could totally do that with the Wayang Paladin/Ninja I'm making.

Except Worgs are evil, aren't they? Never mind. <pout>

Grand Lodge 2/5

pH unbalanced wrote:
Except Worgs are evil, aren't they? Never mind. <pout>

Yeah, you need to remain true neutral to retain a worg mount.

4/5

I'm just waiting for when/if Vanara come available as a GM boon or playable race so I can have the Vanara ninja shuriken specialist Hu Flung Pu.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Apes Will Rise

Poo Will Fall

No, but seriously, I'd love to make a Tengu just in case, but hate the stats it has. It's a typecast divine ranged race, but has a focus on melee with its racial traits and a low Con. Just ugh. And I'm not even the type to squeeze every last plus from my characters(made a dwarf paladin, fgs), but turning over the stats trying to formulate something un-tenguish just rustles my jimmies something fierce.

Maybe I should just reserve tengus to home campaigns so I could roll stats...

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Given the last Grandfathering rules...

You should get to a minimum of 4 xp with Play credit at level 2+.

Don't expect a lot of warning about what is being retired and how the Grandfathering will work.

4/5

Wraith235 wrote:

My curiosity is what will they replace it with

Won't be samsaran because of the gencon boon same with rats and frogs
Vishkanya is the current race boon
Catfolk was a charity auction boon
No way will Android be legal
Gillmen is a possibility

We've also heard on "Know Direction" that it will not be Gillman because they have an upcoming plot involving them.

4/5

We only got the Player Companion with new Wayang options last month. It would be cruel to pull them away already.

2/5

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Eric Ives wrote:
We only got the Player Companion with new Wayang options last month. It would be cruel to pull them away already.

Aaaaand there go Wayangs...

Shadow Lodge 5/5

fair enough ... sorry I was on my phone when I was posting this ... there were a few other possibilities I saw when looking at the race list that MIGHT Work - I'll skip the obvious "No's"

Damphir - have been out of Rotation for what 4 years now ? they were allowed with the beginner box bash

Orcs - would love to see it but not gonna happen

Aasimar, Tiefling.... Doubt they want to go down that road again

Fetchling - very limited boon run - so no

Kobolds - would be cool but again - I dont see it

Elementalkin - these I suppose are possible ... there are So many boons out for them tho that I wonder if it would be a slap in the face

Changlings - MIGHT work - tho the flavor might be a bit wierd

Merfolk - the 5 ft. base land speed is a no go

Strix- this is an interesting one to think about with the heavy cheliax stuff as of late

Vanaras - I see these as the same category as catfolk ... Prolly a gencon charity boon

3/5

Wraith235 wrote:

fair enough ... sorry I was on my phone when I was posting this ... there were a few other possibilities I saw when looking at the race list that MIGHT Work - I'll skip the obvious "No's"

Damphir - have been out of Rotation for what 4 years now ? they were allowed with the beginner box bash

Orcs - would love to see it but not gonna happen

Aasimar, Tiefling.... Doubt they want to go down that road again

Fetchling - very limited boon run - so no

Kobolds - would be cool but again - I dont see it

Elementalkin - these I suppose are possible ... there are So many boons out for them tho that I wonder if it would be a slap in the face

Changlings - MIGHT work - tho the flavor might be a bit wierd

Merfolk - the 5 ft. base land speed is a no go

Strix- this is an interesting one to think about with the heavy cheliax stuff as of late

Vanaras - I see these as the same category as catfolk ... Prolly a gencon charity boon

I would like to see hobgoblins over orcs myself.

Strix give flight at first level. This is usually a level 5 ability that costs resources. I would give a strong no to that.

I think android would be a great boon.

4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere

My bet is on the elemental races, personally. Since there are so many boons for them out there, it seems logical that they'll progress into an open race selection.

Shadow Lodge *

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

The only thing that makes me doubt the elemental races is that would really be a slap in the face for those who paid prestige for the recent chronicle reward.

I'm leaning towards ratfolk and/or grippli myself.

2/5

Aquatic Elves?

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Finlanderboy wrote:
Wraith235 wrote:

fair enough ... sorry I was on my phone when I was posting this ... there were a few other possibilities I saw when looking at the race list that MIGHT Work - I'll skip the obvious "No's"

Damphir - have been out of Rotation for what 4 years now ? they were allowed with the beginner box bash

Orcs - would love to see it but not gonna happen

Aasimar, Tiefling.... Doubt they want to go down that road again

Fetchling - very limited boon run - so no

Kobolds - would be cool but again - I dont see it

Elementalkin - these I suppose are possible ... there are So many boons out for them tho that I wonder if it would be a slap in the face

Changlings - MIGHT work - tho the flavor might be a bit wierd

Merfolk - the 5 ft. base land speed is a no go

Strix- this is an interesting one to think about with the heavy cheliax stuff as of late

Vanaras - I see these as the same category as catfolk ... Prolly a gencon charity boon

I would like to see hobgoblins over orcs myself.

Strix give flight at first level. This is usually a level 5 ability that costs resources. I would give a strong no to that.

I think android would be a great boon.

I covered androids in my previous post ... there is 1 in PFS - it was a charity auction boon at Gencon in season 6

Silver Crusade 5/5

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Starting, we've had Wayang, Nagaji and Kitsune legal for two years, and Tengu legal for four years. We had the Aasimar and Tiefling races for two years, so thiis would be a good time to switch races up, I like two years as a standard number for non-core races to be legal. That being said, let's look at some of the races mentioned so far. I'm leaving out Aasimar and Tieflings, cause I think it's very unlikely for them to come up again, and Gillmen since it has been said before that Gillmen won't be a PC race for PFS. Evil races are also being left out, for obvious reasons. Also, seeing as it has been two years since the Android was auctioned off for charity, and three years since the other charity boon races were auctioned off, they will not be automatically excluded.

Vishkanya - Would be a good choice. Even with them being a current seasonal boon, I'd still put them as a strong contender.

Catfolk - Would be okay, it's been three years since it was a charity boon, but the race would probably require some sort of introductory scenario before becoming widely available.

Samsaran - Could be a possibility, as the Society has some contact with Samsarans, was a Gencon GM boon race, which I personally don't think actually means anything, but some others might think otherwise. I'm going to put it in my pile of contenders as a dark horse pick for inclusion, it's unlikely, but I like to pick the longshot.

Grippli - Another good choice, we've had contact with a tribe of Grippli, so the seeds are there. They've been a staple of the Gencon GM boon, but they've been dropping to progressively lower GM tiers, so a definite possibility. There is the boon from that one scenario that might throw a monkey wrench in the works, but I don't think it's a complete deal breaker, there a still a good number of ways they can take that boon.

Ratfolk - Another good choice, the Society has had contact with Ratfolk multiple times now, so the seeds are definitely there. There are already a number of Ratfolk in the society due to Gencon 2014 GM boon, but they were conspicuously absent from last year's GM boon.

Vanara- See Catfolk.

Android- See Catfolk. We went all season six without seeing any Androids, so it seems even more unlikely. But hey, who knows?

Dhampir- Seems unlikely, I think I recall reading a post from a member of leadership saying they weren't planning on unrestricting the race.

Fetchling - Given the presence of Shadow Absalom, I wouldn't completely write them out, but I think I remember hearing leadership say that Fetchlings would not be legal past the single time they were legal for people that participated in the Grand Convocation 4712. So, pretty unlikely.

Genie-kin (not Suli) - By the time they would be made legal it would be a year since they were a boon race, they are a definite possibility. I don't think it would be rocking the boat too much, except it would be an awful lot of Native Outsiders to bring in at once. So, they'll go in the maybe pile.

Strix - A race with a natural fly speed is straight out. No chance.

Changeling - While origianally a charity race, it has since made the jump to Gencon GM boon race. I could see it making it's way down the line eventually, but I don't think it would make much sense right now since the Society hasn't had any contact with Changelings yet. I think they would wait to find a way to introduce the race to the Society before making it an unrestricted race.

Suli - See Vishkanya.

Merfolk - I'd be okay with Merfolk, even with the slow move speed, as long as the Strongtail Alt. Racial Trait is legal. However, even with the slow move speed, Merfolk are a crazy good race, probably too good, so nope.

Skinwalker - Seems doubtful, it's been a charity boon and a Gencon GM boon race, but it suffers from having too much versatility, I think.

Strong Contenders:
Ratfolk, Grippli, Samsarans

Maybe:
Geniekin, Changeling, Vishkanya, Suli

In conclusion, if we see a change to the list of PC races (a pretty big if), I think we'll lose Nagaji, Kitsune, and Wayang and pick up Ratfolk, Grippli, and Samsaran. I'm also picking Tengu to stay legal, as they've been legal for four seasons now and continue to make no waves at all, they are a nice, safe option to keep legal. Once again these are just my thoughts.

Grand Lodge 2/5

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pH unbalanced wrote:

The only thing that makes me doubt the elemental races is that would really be a slap in the face for those who paid prestige for the recent chronicle reward.

I'm leaning towards ratfolk and/or grippli myself.

Please ratfolk. I have so many plans/thoughts/ideas for a ratfolk. I would love to be able to actually create something from this mess of thought.

5/5 5/55/55/5

claudekennilol wrote:
pH unbalanced wrote:

The only thing that makes me doubt the elemental races is that would really be a slap in the face for those who paid prestige for the recent chronicle reward.

I'm leaning towards ratfolk and/or grippli myself.

Please ratfolk. I have so many plans/thoughts/ideas for a ratfolk. I would love to be able to actually create something from this mess of thought.

Brown furred brown furred transmuter?

Sensei monk archtype with four grippli/nagaji students?

Scarab Sages

I'd like Grippli, Ratfolk, and Ragebred skinwalkers, just so I could make a Ratfolk rogue name rizzo, a ragebred barbarian princess, and a grippli bard.

Grand Lodge 2/5

The basics are to get Scurrying Swarmer feat and then teamwork feats. Probably a fighter (probably lore warden but most combat maneuvers will suck from being small and the size limitation on the good ones) and take the weapon master feat (not sure what it's called) from Weapon Master's Handbook to get "fighter solo tactics". Or maybe try out an inquisitor and have real solo tactics.

So with always on teamwork feats and being able to flank with an ally while adjacent (same square) that opens up some real possibilities.

1/5

So do we have any potential options that are small sized?

Scarab Sages

Thomas Hutchins wrote:
So do we have any potential options that are small sized?

Grippli and Ratfolk

Silver Crusade 5/5

claudekennilol wrote:

The basics are to get Scurrying Swarmer feat and then teamwork feats. Probably a fighter (probably lore warden but most combat maneuvers will suck from being small and the size limitation on the good ones) and take the weapon master feat (not sure what it's called) from Weapon Master's Handbook to get "fighter solo tactics". Or maybe try out an inquisitor and have real solo tactics.

So with always on teamwork feats and being able to flank with an ally while adjacent (same square) that opens up some real possibilities.

Per the Additional Resources page Scurrying Swarmer is not a legal feat.

Grand Lodge 2/5

I didn't realize it was outside of the pages listed--I just saw that it wasn't named as illegal. If Ratfolk are released as a race I'd ask for that to be revisited as it doesn't matter until then.

Silver Crusade 5/5

claudekennilol wrote:
I didn't realize it was outside of the pages listed--I just saw that it wasn't named as illegal. If Ratfolk are released as a race I'd ask for that to be revisited as it doesn't matter until then.

It matters to those of us that made Ratfolk wih our GM boon from Gencon 2014. I'm just lucky I have another ratfolk local that I can swarm with. But it is a feat I would like to put on my rat.

Sovereign Court 5/5 RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

hopefully not Kitsune, since I only have one xp on my little were-Chihuahua.

*makes note to schedule a CotE for locals...*

Grand Lodge 2/5

UndeadMitch wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
I didn't realize it was outside of the pages listed--I just saw that it wasn't named as illegal. If Ratfolk are released as a race I'd ask for that to be revisited as it doesn't matter until then.
It matters to those of us that made Ratfolk wih our GM boon from Gencon 2014. I'm just lucky I have another ratfolk local that I can swarm with. But it is a feat I would like to put on my rat.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. But it doesn't affect me now so there's no point in me bothering to try and get it legalized. Since that page is not mentioned and the feat isn't mentioned by name I'm guessing it's just an oversight.

4/5

If there is significant change, as UndeadMitch hypothesized, it would seem that we would start running short of truly exotic options that would still be reasonable to offer for high-tier GM boons. We may need to discover some new or long-forgotten race in the course of our adventures. :)

Silver Crusade 5/5

Eric Ives wrote:
If there is significant change, as UndeadMitch hypothesized, it would seem that we would start running short of truly exotic options that would still be reasonable to offer for high-tier GM boons. We may need to discover some new or long-forgotten race in the course of our adventures. :)

That, or cycling in formerly available races as boon races might make more sense. Like what they just did with Aasimar and Tieflings.

4/5 *** Venture-Agent, New Zealand—Auckland

+1 on wanting grippli, so I can create Crazy Frog the bard.

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