increasing perception?


Advice


My friends and I are starting a level 10 campaign. And being the unoriginal nerd that I am, decided to build a sniper. I have successfully increased my range to the extreme, however I am hitting a road block being able to actually see my target when the distance is this big. What are my options, without using the eye slot if possible, to increase my perception, even if it is just minutes or rounds per day?

my build so far:
I'm probably going for human, for flavor and the extra feat. I haven't nailed down my classes yet but i'm leaning towards gunslinger (musket master) 1, slayer (sniper) 1, and ninja (sanctified rogue) 8. The gunslinger gives me weapon proficiency and rapid reload, slayer decreased range penalties and studied strike, and the ninja for sneak attack and a charisma based assassinate.

For feats I'm going for improved far shot (point-blank shot->far shot->improved far shot) as well as precise shot and bulls eye shot. I'll probably pick up vital strike too. this leaves me with at least one extra feat, possibly two if i decide to take the combat ninja trick.

We are starting with the average WBL of a 10th level character, so 62,000 gp. I am grabbing lesser sniper's goggles for my ranged sneak attack. I'm also grabbing a rifle with distance and possible reliable or seeking. Ill just pick up minimal armor considering I don't plan on being in the danger zone too often... My DM has allowed me too use a spyglass as a scope if I want to, which would cut my perception negatives in half, however if you guys propose something super I could switch to a far reaching sight for those super long range touch attacks. After buying all this stuff it leaves me with just over 15,000 gp left.

just how long range?:
So we are starting off with a rifle, range increment of 80 feet. we add the enchantment distance which doubles that to 160 feet, and because of the wording it should apply before we add on improved far shot which increases it further, to 240 feet. that means if we are max distance we can shoot a target 2,400 feet away. And with far shot and the slayer (sniper)'s ability accuracy it should only be a -5 to hit.
However the problem comes when we have to actually see the target. the normal penalty is +1 DC/10 feet. So being able to spot someone 2,400 feet away is a 240 perception DC MINIMUM. My gracious DM is allowing me to use a spyglass as a scope which lowers the DC increase to +1 DC/20 feet. However that is still a 120 perception check to see someone standing in an open field...

EDIT: forgot to mention that my perception is currently at 12. that's with putting a skill rank in it every level and a +2 for class skill. unfortunatley i have 10 wisdom


Half-elf makes the best spotter. Racial +2 bonus to perception, and they gain skill focus as a free feat. Between those two it's a free +5 to perception. The only drawback is no darkvision.

Without the eye slot? Ooh, that's rough. I would say Bracer's of Falcon's Aim are an absolute must, although you're not using a bow so it's not as good there. Other than that, pick some potions that can give you temporary buffs.


I'll think about changing to a half-elf, obviously i don't NEED the extra feat. And i didnt even think about using potions, good catch.


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Being a Class Skill adds +3, not +2.
Also, Skill Focus feat is adding +6 when your ranks reach +10.


At 2400 feet, if there is nothing in the way blocking your sight and you have sufficient light, you can see a target. You just couldn't make out the "fine detail" unless you made the PER check.

If they are trying to stealth at all, you won't be able to see them without an opposed PER check.

You should be able to tell if it is hill giant sized versus human sized.
You should be able to tell if they are wearing red or white vs. black.
You should be able to tell if something is riding an approaching horse.

You probably can't tell if it is a half-orc or a human.
You probably can't determine between black and charcoal gray.
You probably can't tell if it is a unicorn or a horse.

Now whether you take the shot before you know for certain whether it is friend or foe? That is another topic.


Brf wrote:
Being a Class Skill adds +3, not +2

My whole life is a lie QQ

Rory wrote:
At 2400 feet, if there is nothing in the way blocking your sight and you have sufficient light, you can see a target. You just couldn't make out the "fine detail" unless you made the PER check.

I did not know this, good info


are you allowed to use/have you used your traits?


We are allowed to use traits, i forgot to put them in my original post, I will definitely be using that trait


Renarin Kholin wrote:
I did not know this, good info

"I can see to the moon... how far's that?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqw4IayN1AI

(paraphrased quote, and I think that's the skit that had that line...)


Also if you play an elf or half you can take Sharp Sense for an additional +2 to perception on top of you Keen Senses.

Also you don't need to roll perception to see your target unless they are trying to hide or you are looking for fine detail on your target. Like for example you were trying to identify the target with bird shaped tattoo on their arm. You would need perception the check to identify that. You still see the target at 2400 range but unless you succeed in DC 120 check you won't know for sure but you could put an bullet in them regardless.

Just to point out at that range even the a person a -7 stealth in full plate can hide from you.


Renarin Kholin wrote:
Rory wrote:
At 2400 feet, if there is nothing in the way blocking your sight and you have sufficient light, you can see a target. You just couldn't make out the "fine detail" unless you made the PER check.
I did not know this, good info

Expect some table variation here. The base roll to notice an enemy and thus gain surprise, for example, does require perception. I would also expect that you would need to see "fine detail" to use precision damage like sneak attack.

The big thing though is that while this is a somewhat interesting concept, I don't think it is actually viable in play. In my experience most adventuring happens in dungeons and buildings where sight lines are far shorter than anything we are talking about here. Even when outside, most adventuring isn't in flat fields, but in jungles, forests hill and mountains.

Even if you were in a game where you can frequently encounter enemies with a clear line of sight at 1/2 a mile, it probably won't work out well in practice, since it is a cooperative game and if everyone isn't having fun it won't work out. You see the bad guy 2400 feet away and start shooting, all well and good, but the rest of your party will have to take about of 20 rounds running at full speed to get into the action (of course that will change, since the enemy will obviously withdraw or advance but you see the point.)

Of course you can contrive situations where it will be useful, covering your friends why they meet to negotiate or something, but those probably won't happen very often.

So basically you are spending a lot of character resources on a shtick that either you won't often get to use or if you do get to use it a lot will probably mean the rest of your group isn't enjoying the game very much. Doesn't seem likely to be that great to me.

Liberty's Edge

If you have access to Ultimate Classes, you could take one level of Hunter (Feral archetype). The Feral Aspect class feature has 11 different options, including falcon (+4 perception), bat (60' darkvision) and tiger (+2 DEX). The aspect has unlimited duration, and it is a swift action to change from one aspect to another. At first level you can have only one aspect active at a time. The hunter class carries the same alignment restriction as the druid class - any neutral.

Liberty's Edge

If your GM permits, there's always the skill unlocks from Pathfinder Unchained.

Perception:

Source Pathfinder Unchained pg. 85
With sufficient ranks in Perception, you earn the following.

5 Ranks: You remain alert to sounds even in your sleep, and the normal DC increase to Perception checks when you are sleeping is halved. The distance modifier on the DC of Perception checks you attempt is reduced to +1 per 20 feet.

10 Ranks: The distance modifier on the DC of Perception checks you attempt is reduced to +1 per 30 feet. In addition, you gain a +5 bonus on Perception checks to notice or locate an invisible creature or object.

15 Ranks: You remain alert to sounds even in your sleep, and the normal DC increase to Perception checks when you are sleeping doesn’t apply to you. The distance modifier on the DC of your Perception checks is reduced to +1 per 40 feet.

20 Ranks: You gain a +10 bonus on Perception checks to notice invisible creatures or objects. The distance modifier on the DC of Perception checks you attempt is reduced to +1 per 60 feet.

Which drops the perception DC down to a manageable 40 at your level, and an automatically-made 20 at level 20.


Ill talk to her about the signature skill, i think that would be just what i'm looking for... I'll look into dipping into hunter for that perception bonus if i need it.

@dave justus
I understand the concerns and problems with the build... the campaign is located in a cityscape so being able to cover my buds (so far a paladin, bard, and sorcerer) from roof tops and the like is something we have discussed, and while I wont always be able to stand 100+ feet away, those small moments when i do will be AWESOME


There is a ninja talent that keys you get dark vision temporarily. Word of warning, sniping is quite difficult. Humans have an alternate text that trades out the bonus fest to get skill focus multiple times. This helps with stealth.


Not your immediate answer but a friend built a brilliant archaeologist bard sniper who could use expeditious retreat/vanish/invisibility to move between shots and heightened awareness/acute senses (especially this!). The cherry on this particular cake was the wand of true strike he carried and UMD to boost his difficult shots. Essentially he could shoot/change position/shoot again with increadible ease.


While I know applying real world stats to fantasy never works... hitting anything even a 1000 feet with a musket or primitive rifle will be dang near impossible. 1/2 mile and 1 mile shots are only possible due to technology in both ammunition and weapon. I don't think the rifle's available in game would handle the black powder load or alchemical charge needed to push the bullet that far.

Weapon stats aside, at that range even with a sight glass interpenetrating gestures or the situation would be the bigger problem. You might think they wanted you to fire when they want you to hold fire.

The concept is cool, but from even the fantasy aspect, I would stick to ranges under a 1000 feet. Not just so you can see signals or threats better, but to much range puts you in a serious bind if you are spotted and the rest of your party is half way across town.

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