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Anyone still playing D&D 3.0?


3.5/d20/OGL

1 to 50 of 103 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Hi all,
as the topic says. I have been running a successful Dragonlance game until a few months ago, and I'll probably get to DM the game again in the future. It's the game I moved to when I was burned out on AD&D 2e + Player's Options stuff (using the PO stuff was the worst choice ever in my DMing career!) although I haven't played it as much as AD&D 2e. I don't have any splat books, so for me it's core books only (and the occasional stuff from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide.)

I never moved to 3.5 nor Pathfinder, since I didn't find the changes to my taste (most notably the big increase in feats and character abilities), and the game still retains a lot of nice "throwbacks" to AD&D 2e (e.g. monster immunity to +x weapons, paladins's warhorses not being magical, monsters statted differently from PCs etc.)

Anyway, just wanted to see if I am the last one playing and enjoying D&D 3.0 :)

Cheers,
Antonio


2 people marked this as a favorite.

You could at least be the last one HERE who plays it, if nobody else answers you...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I might not technically qualify for this topic, since I did, in fact, switch to PFRPG, but I love 3.0, and Sissyl's post compels me to say some good things about it.

Spoiler:
First of all, when I got into 3.0, I said "Yes! This is the definitive tabletop fantasy RPG for me!" I had never said such a thing before. After 3.0, I could never switch back to 2e despite my heavy use of AD&D material.

When I got a complete set of 3.5 core books, created a bunch of 3.5 characters, and ran them though most of The Red Hand of Doom, I came to the conclusion that I preferred 3.0 over 3.5, and I still feel that way.

Don't get me wrong. I felt that the vast majority of the changes in 3.5 were good. The skill system was better. There were more feats that I, unlike rabindranath72, felt should have been there. There were more spells to "boost" abilities, and by a constant number rather than a die roll. Spells that were too powerful were either reduced or else brought to a higher level. More charts were used, to clarify graphically rules like flanking. The DMG had some neat stuff, like detailed guidelines for wilderness combat maps, and descriptions of planes that saved me from having to buy the Manual of the Planes. The rules for monster PCs (and specifically, level adjustment) were made more clear, consistent, extensive, and workable. The monster illustrations in the Monster Manual were labelled. There was a sensible rule about when someone becomes a ghast, rather than a ghoul.

There were several things about 3.5 that turned me off, though. I disliked the "square" monsters. (I understand the reason for this, but still, aesthetically, it just LOOKS nicer to see a rectangle on the map, when a rectangle is appropriate.) I disliked the penalty for different weapon sizes. Of course, all this stuff could just be houseruled away. In fact, when I ran 3.5, I DID carry over some rules from 3.0, such as DCs for Spot checks for outdoor encounters. (In fact, I never understood how you were SUPPOSED to determine the DC in 3.5. Surely you shouldn't apply the same penalty as indoors, with a -1 penalty for every 10 feet! That would be ridiculous!)

But the one change in 3.5 that REALLY turned me off - that, in fact, literally made me feel nauseous when I first read it - was what 3.5 did to Damage Reduction. It necessitates the "golf bag" mentality, which is totally not the kind of game I want to play! Now our magic weapons are less effective against lycanthropes? Really?!?

And anyway, I had no players who wanted to switch to 3.5.

So I stuck with 3.0 until PFRPG came out. I'll get to some of my reasons for switching to PFRPG later. But 3.0 definitely had stuff that PFRPG lacked, like the Size-to-Dimension-and-Weight table, and the aforementioned outdoor-Spot/Perception-check DCs.

But what I missed most of all from 3.X was level adjustment. I wanted to play monsters, and giving up levels for monster abilities seemed like a wonderful solution. But some people on the boards - including Paizo staff members - convinced me that level adjustment wasn't balanced, so I figured I would get into PFRPG, and hang tight until people came up with playable monster races with paragon classes. And when the Advanced Race Guide disappointed me, I got some 3PP books with such races and classes... and although some of those 3PPs had the right idea, most of them disappointed me too. For instance, In the Company of Dragons made the race too powerful, so that allowing that race would keep players from wanting to play anything else. Zerzix worked long and hard on converting Savage Species to PFRPG, but since that has full hit dice AND the monsters' abilities, it makes many of those races too powerful also.

And that brings me to one of the advantages of PFRPG that attracted me to it: PFRPG was supposedly better balanced. But I soon found that PFRPG was NOT more balanced! People keep arguing on these boards about how humans are so powerful, no one would want to play any other race (with the possible exception of dwarves). Or how fighters are overpowered, or rogues are underpowered. Or how the advantages of a wizard specializing are so great, no one would ever want to play a universalist.

Also, I was hoping for monsters with more accurate CRs. First, I discovered that PFRPG did some weird stuff to achieve that. For instance, a Cockatrice's Petrification is handled with Dex damage, or the little Pixie was given 4 Hit Dice. Even the common orc, that cannon fodder for 1st-level parties, kept fighting until reduced to minus Con! And in time, I found lots of discussions about inaccurate CRs in PFRPG, such as...

Monsters too powerful for their CR

...and...

The most over-CR'ed and under-CR'ed creatures in the bestiaries.

I mean... Jeez! Why did I switch? Since PFRPG isn't balanced anyway, why not go back to 3.0 with its wonderful monster races?

Also, I have a gripe with PFRPG's handling of ability damage. In the rules as written (CRB page 555) every 2 points of damage to an ability imposes a -1 penalty to the related skills and statistics. I houseruled that it works as it did in 3.X, so that this is only true for odd-numbered ability scores. That way, there's an advantage to having, for instance, a Con of 13 over a Con of 12.

Whew! I ranted on far longer than I had intended! If it was too long for you, the bottom line is that 3.0 has wonderful advantages, and I haven't found the advantages that I had hoped to find in PFRPG when I played that.

A year ago, after playing a lot of PFRPG with my son, I grew tired of tabletop RPGs and quit. My son misses playing them, and I keep telling him that hopefully one day, the RPG bug would bite me again. For a while, he was poring over various RPG manuals, including those of 3.0 and 3.5, creating PCs in those editions. He asked me if I would ever DM those editions. I said "Well, it's not out of the question!"

And I remember in 2011, Stefan Hill saying he preferred 3.0 (although he may be switching to 5e now. I'm not sure).

So there is hope for 3.0.


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3.0 and 3.5 are rather different beasts.

3.0 is far more quirky, less balanced, with content for it far less streamlined and "samey". 3.5 is far more polished, there is more for it, and I suppose it is easier to learn since more rules are similar.

However: 3.0 is the work of art. 3.5 is a derivative knock-off. Many of the things in 3.0 that were based on somewhat counterintuitive considerations, but added quality, were removed in 3.5. A good example is the lack of X minute spell durations, removed because those urged players to "keep the buffs up for another fight" and run into the next battle. As stated above, going back to 2nd edition is painful after 3.X.

That said... both are showing their age today. PF is in some ways a better system, but above all, it's still "alive".

Oh, and Aaron, get back into the cockpit and play 3.0 with your son. Trust me, it will be worth it.


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Yeah, I hope I will one day. But during the last few months of playing PFRPG, and in the year (plus) since then, I've felt a strong aversion to GMing, and to preparing adventures for GMing, that I can't explain. Maybe I'm just burnt out.


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Aaron Bitman wrote:
Yeah, I hope I will one day.

Until then, why not let your son GM some simple scenarios? Young kids are often fantastic storytellers.


Yeah, he tried preparing some simple scenarios, and started running some characters through them himself, but soon came to the conclusion that he didn't want to GM.


Aaron, thanks for the "rant"! I completely understand the feel of being burnt out; in my experience it happens when you have to juggle relatively complex games, like d20 games tend to be. When this happens to me, I simply change game; if I want to still play D&D, my usual "cure" is BECMI :) It might be worth perhaps introducing your son to it (the pdfs are cheap, and used copies can be found for pretty cheap) to learn the "basics". If he wants he can graduate later. I introduced my little brother (there's 25 years difference between us!) to BECMI when he was just 8; now he is 19, and it's the only D&D game he wants to play :)

I don't want to turn this into "X is better than Y", since most of these topics tend to derail into shouting contests, and tastes are different. I'll say though that, as Sissyl points out, the "artistic" quality is what attracts me to 3.0 most; and the suspicion that many changes in 3.5 (and possibly PF) were put into the game just for change's sake, to justify a new edition (like changing the DR rules in 3.5 completely screws with the magic item economy.)
3.0 has the same endearing quirkiness of AD&D 1e: it's the first to try something new.


I'd like to expand a bit more on the topic of feats. What I like in 3.0 is that each feat seems designed to address exactly ONE aspect of the rules, providing ONE extension or exception. For example:
1) Want to be better at a skill? Skill Focus
2) Want to be better at avoiding surprise? Alertness
3) Want to have more hit points? Toughness
4) Want to get better with a weapon? Weapon Focus
5) Want to get more turning undead per day? Extra Turning

and so on.

This neat concept seems to have been quite diluted, already starting with the later 3.0 material, and getting exponentially worse with 3.5 and PF, with long feat trees, and single feats less relevant than in 3.0 (apparently quite a few 3.0 feats have been split into more feats.)
I do allow the feats in the FRCS book when I DM in the FR, as they work based on the same principle; background feats add another dimension, since they tie a character to the setting, and the fact that some of them may be considered more powerful than other feats, is countered by the fact that they can only be acquired at first level, so there is a trade-off of sorts. When I play in the Dragonlance setting, I allow the few feats in the DLCS book, as they follow more or less the same idea.

Besides avoiding or reducing unintended consequences (due to interactions with other feats and/or mechanics), a shorter feats list (with small feat trees) also limits character complexity and paralysis choice. For someone like me who usually plays with non-hardcore players, or players who really care little about optimisation, this is of paramount importance.


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rabindranath72 wrote:
...if I want to still play D&D, my usual "cure" is BECMI :) It might be worth perhaps introducing your son to it (the pdfs are cheap, and used copies can be found for pretty cheap) to learn the "basics". If he wants he can graduate later.

In fact, I started my son off with BECMI. Among other adventures, he played Palace of the Silver Princess to its completion. But then he graduated to PFRPG, which we played together a LOT.

Perhaps ironically, I adapted the biggest, most ambitious adventure I ever managed to run to its completion in PFRPG... from a BECMI module! It was Night's Dark Terror. It was while running that when I grew tired of GMing.

The point is that I don't think we could go back to BECMI now. If it were simply a matter of playing something simpler, we might play a little MEGS, as we have before. But I feel an aversion even to that.


I also really like the 3.0 DMG. It's a very useful book. Some of the things I liked most (and which are absent from the 3.5 revision)

1- the complete NPC tables, which are worth the price, IMO. I never spent more than a few minutes creating NPCs, since I always used these tables; making small changes can be done in a relatively easy way. Monte Cook himself lamented the fact that the tables were gutted in the 3.5 revision and lost their usefulness. I can see why many people lamented the problems with NPC creation in 3.5, something I practically never experienced.

2- multiclass characters at 1st level! Nothing says AD&D to me, more than starting at 1st level with an elf fighter/magic-user (ehm wizard ;) ) My players loved this option, especially my sister who used to play the Red Box Elf

3- it doesn't put a lot of emphasis on grid play (similarly to the PHB.) Another thing which Monte Cook lamented about 3.5

The DMG really "opens" the game, and provides tons of interesting suggestions and variants. For example, as Prestige Classes are not mandatory, I only ever rarely use them, so when they enter the game, they are really special. I also keep multiclassing strictly under control, requiring training and downtime to get a class (so, no "dipping" into classes just to get a power here and there.) I also limit races to some classes, for example no dwarf wizards or halfling paladins; halflings can be druids, but not clerics; and elf and cleric wizard adventurers are typically very old (needless to say, all these things I borrowed from AD&D.)

From what I have read on different forums online, it seems a lot of people (both detractors and fans) assume that in 3e "anything goes" and this is the only way to play the game, but I think limitations actually give flavour to a campaign.


Aaron Bitman wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:
...if I want to still play D&D, my usual "cure" is BECMI :) It might be worth perhaps introducing your son to it (the pdfs are cheap, and used copies can be found for pretty cheap) to learn the "basics". If he wants he can graduate later.

In fact, I started my son off with BECMI. Among other adventures, he played Palace of the Silver Princess to its completion. But then he graduated to PFRPG, which we played together a LOT.

Perhaps ironically, I adapted the biggest, most ambitious adventure I ever managed to run to its completion in PFRPG... from a BECMI module! It was Night's Dark Terror. It was while running that when I grew tired of GMing.

The point is that I don't think we could go back to BECMI now. If it were simply a matter of playing something simpler, we might play a little MEGS, as we have before. But I feel an aversion even to that.

Sorry about that; I know the feel; weirdly enough, I was about to give up RPGs when I couldn't play for about 5 years; frustration plays these nasty tricks on our minds :( I suppose the wise thing to do is not to force yourself, if a game stops being fun, it's not worth playing.

Night's Dark Terror is one of my absolute favourites! I had thought about converting it to 3.0, but I never did anything with the idea. Do you have something written which you could share? Thanks in advance!


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I am unabashedly a fan of Pathfinder (as much for the business philosophy of Paizo as for the content of the game itself), but I can completely sympathize with the feat overload problem. Especially for classes where feat choice is not always obvious to more casual players past the first few levels (like Bard or Cleric).

I am of two minds about the changes to Damage Reduction. In some ways I like the idea of needing to find an actual silver weapon to effectively fight werewolves; but at the same time the end result of the "golf bag" effect is annoying. I have often considered tinkering with the DR system to either encourage or discourage needing specialized weapons for DR, but have never pulled the trigger either way. Maybe that's a good sign that the system used in Pathfinder is pretty good, where different material requirements are considered met if the enhancement bonus of the weapon is high enough. If feels like a good compromise, at least.


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rabindranath72 wrote:
Night's Dark Terror is one of my absolute favourites! I had thought about converting it to 3.0, but I never did anything with the idea. Do you have something written which you could share? Thanks in advance!

Some people have posted their 3.5 conversions for Night's Dark Terror on the web, like here for instance. When writing my PFRPG conversion of the Kartoeba's stats, I drew them largely from the 3.5 stats here.

My own PFRPG conversion of Night's Dark Terror was an MS Word document which, at 28 pages, became my biggest conversion document ever. (And believe me, I wrote a LOT of conversion documents in my day!) Pasting it here makes it lose the formatting. I'm not going to bother throwing in BBCodes for bold, italics, or bigger or smaller font here, as that would take me too long. If you want to see a prettier document, you could send me your e-mail address so I could mail you the conversion.

But in case it's good enough, here's just the text of my conversion:

length:
Night’s Dark Terror – PFRPG Conversion

When reading my stats, note that "g" is short for "gem". For instance, 2g10 means 2 gems worth 10 gp each. In fact, a lot of this might be hard to read because I meant them only for my own reference, but if anything is unclear, you could just ask me about it.

Also note that some of this stuff is due to quirks and accidents of when I ran it. For instance, when the party got through a lot of combat with little treasure to show for it, I decided to give them their money's worth by planting a generous treasure horde in W16g on page 22. And because the party failed to find that horde, I added it to H5h on page 51.

Page 6: On the bank: Reaver of the Iron Ring: Use Veteran Buccaneer (NPC Codex p. 267). Errata: Swim +7.
Hounds of the Iron Ring CR 1/3
XP 135
Human Warriors 1
LE Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1 (+1 Dex); Senses Perception +0

Defense
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 5 (1d8+1)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee Longsword +3 (dmg 1d8+1, crit 19) or dagger +2 (1d4+1, crit 19)
Ranged Shortbow +3 (dmg 1d6, crit x3, rng 60’) or dagger +2 (1d4+1, crit 19, rng 10’)

Statistics
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Weapon focus (Longsword), Weapon focus (Shortbow)
Skills Climb +5, Swim +5
Gear Longsword, shortbow, 20 arrows, masterwork studded leather armor, 3 daggers, survival gear

On the boat:
Kalanos CR 1/2
XP 200
(adapted from “Shipmate” from the GameMastery Guide, page 294.)
Human Expert 1 / Warrior 1
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1 (+1 Dex); Senses Perception +4

Defense
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +1 Dex, +1 Dodge)
hp 11 (1d8+1d10+2)
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +2

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee scimitar +2 (dmg 1d6+1, crit 18) or dagger +2 (1d4+1, crit 19) or (later) handaxe +2 (1d6+1, crit x3)
Ranged composite longbow +2 (dmg 1d8+1, crit x3, rng100’) or dagger +2 (1d4+1, crit 19, rng 10’)

Statistics
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 9
Base Atk +1; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats Dodge, Skill Focus (Profession [sailor])
Skills Acrobatics +5, Climb +5, Craft (ships) +3, Perception +4, Profession (merchant) +4, Profession (sailor) +8, Survival +4, Swim +5
Gear masterwork studded leather, daggers (2), composite longbow (+1 Str), 20 arrows, scimitar, (later, handaxe)

7 ordinary crewmen CR 1/3
XP 135
Human Expert 1
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1 (+1 Dex); Senses Perception +4

Defense
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +1 Dex, +1 Dodge)
hp 5 (1d8+1)
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +2

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee longsword +1 (dmg 1d8+1, crit 19) or dagger +1 (1d4+1, crit 19)
Ranged shortbow +1 (dmg 1d6, crit x3, rng 60’) or dagger +1 (1d4+1, crit 19, rng 10’)

Statistics
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 9
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Dodge, Skill Focus (Profession [sailor])
Skills Acrobatics +5, Climb +5, Craft (ships) +3, Perception +4, Profession (sailor) +7, Survival +4, Swim +5
Gear Longsword, shortbow, 20 arrows, masterwork studded leather armor, 3 daggers, survival gear

1 Reaver of the Iron Ring (thief): Use “Charlatan” (NPC Codex p. 145). Errata: Disguise +15.

Page 7: 1 cave bear: Use stats for Grizzly Bear (Bestiary p. 31). The bear has taken 8 points of damage.

Wolfskull (Kloss-lunk) goblins: Use goblins with the following changes:
Melee battleaxe +2 (dmg 1d6, crit x3) or spear +2 (1d6, crit x3)
Ranged spear +3 (dmg 1d6, incr. 20’, crit x3)

Red-blade (Gnhasska) goblins: Use goblins with the following changes:
Melee short sword +2 (dmg 1d4, crit 19)
Ranged sling +3 (dmg1d3, incr. 50’)

Viper (Jaggadash) goblins: Use goblins with the following changes:
Melee Warhammer +2 (dmg 1d6, crit x3) or dagger +2 (dmg 1d4, crit 19)
Ranged dagger +3 (dmg 1d3, incr. 10’, crit 19)

Yellow-fang (Faz-plak) goblins: Use goblins. Errata: short sword +2, short bow +4.
Treasure A goblin or hobgoblin could carry one of the following sets:
* 70 gp, 60 sp * 20 sp, 2gp, 2g10, 1g50 * 16 gp, Potion, Scroll
* 1g100 * 1 potion, 2 scrolls * 2 potions

Randomly determined potions: 1. Protection From Evil, 2. Pass Without Trace, 3. Enlarge Person, 4. Cure Light Wounds, 5. Cure Light Wounds, 6. Enlarge Person, 7. Reduce Person, 8. Protection From Law

Randomly determined scrolls: 1. (A) Silent Image, 2. (A) Hypnotism, 3. (D) Entangle, 4. (A) Protection From Law, 5. (A) Burning Hands, 6. (D) Remove Fear, 7. (A) Summon Monster I, 8. (A) Sleep, 9. (D) Detect Chaos

Page 10:
Goblin Bodyguards CR 1/2
XP 200
Goblin warrior 2
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception -1

Defense
AC 16, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+2 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield, +1 size)
hp 13 (2d10+2)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will -1

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee (Kloss-Lunk) battleaxe +3 (dmg 1d6, crit x3) or spear +3 (1d6, crit x3)
Melee (Gnhasska / Faz-Plak) short sword +3 (dmg 1d4, crit19) or battleaxe +3 (dmg 1d6, crit x3)
Melee (Jaggadash) Warhammer +3 (dmg 1d6, crit x3) or dagger +3 (dmg 1d4, crit 19)
Ranged (Kloss-Lunk) spear +4 (dmg 1d6, incr. 20’, crit x3)
Ranged (Gnhasska) sling +4 (dmg 1d3, incr. 50’)
Ranged (Jaggadash) dagger +4 (dmg 1d3, incr. 10’, crit 19)
Ranged (Faz-Plak) shortbow +4 (dmg 1d4, incr. 60’, crit x3)

Statistics
Str 11, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6
Base Atk +2; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Improved Initiative
Skills Ride +11, Stealth +11, Swim +5
Gear Equipment plus either (500 sp, 100 gp, 5 pp) or (1g50, 1g100)

Goblin Kings (Kloss, Gnhass, and Plak) CR 1
XP 400
Goblin warrior 3
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception -1

Defense
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 15 (+3 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield, +1 size)
hp 19 (3d10+3)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee (Kloss) battleaxe +5 (dmg 1d6, crit x3) or spear +4 (1d6, crit x3)
Melee (Gnhass) short sword +5 (dmg 1d4, crit 19) or battleaxe +5 (dmg 1d6, crit x3)
Melee (Plak) short sword +5 (dmg 1d4, crit 19)
Ranged (Kloss) spear +5 (dmg 1d6, incr. 20’, crit x3)
Ranged (Gnhass) sling +5 (dmg 1d3, incr. 50’)
Ranged (Plak) shortbow +5 (dmg 1d4, incr. 60’, crit x3)

Statistics
Str 11, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Focus (Kloss – battleaxe, Gnhass – short sword)
Skills Ride +12, Stealth +12, Swim +6
Gear: Kloss or Plak: battleaxe, spear, masterwork studded leather armor, 100 sp, 500 gp, 4g10, 1g100
Gear: Gnhass: short sword, battleaxe, sling, 10 stones, masterwork studded leather armor, 50 sp, 14 gp, Potion of Remove Fear, Divine Scroll of Protection From Chaos

Page 11: SE5. Replace giant vampire bats with 1 dire bat.
Page 12: W2. Replace oil beetles with Otyugh.
W3. Fyordorll Use stats for Local Celebrity (NPC Codex p. 27). Replace 1 1st-level spell with Ventriloquism. Errata: Ranged mwk dagger +4. Special Attacks bardic performance 11 rounds / day. Skills Appraise +8, Sense Motive +6.
Bandits Use Cutpurse (NPC Codex p. 144). Errata: Disable Device +4.
Page 15: WE5:
Hobgoblin CR 1/2
XP 200
Hobgoblin fighter 1
LE Medium humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +2

Defense
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 17 (1d10+7)
Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +1

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee longsword +4 (dmg 1d8+2, crit 19)
Ranged longbow +3 (1d8, crit x3)

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 15
Feats Toughness, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Skills Perception +2, Stealth +5; Racial Modifier +4 Stealth
Languages Common, Goblin
Gear studded leather armor, light steel shield, longsword, longbow with 20 arrows…

Vlack CR 2
XP 600
Hobgoblin fighter 3
LE Medium humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +4

Defense
AC 17, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield, +1 Dodge)
hp 36 (3d10+15)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +2 (+3 vs. fear)

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee masterwork longsword +7 (dmg 1d8+2, crit 19)
Ranged longbow +5 (1d8, crit x3)

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Dodge, Improved Initiative, Toughness, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Skills Perception +4, Stealth +9; Racial Modifier +4 Stealth
Languages Common, Goblin
Gear studded leather armor, masterwork light steel shield, masterwork longsword, longbow with 20 arrows, Potion of Cure Light Wounds x2, 1g100

Page 16: W10c: The potions are of Bull’s Strength, Levitate, and Remove Paralysis.
W10d: Pit trap: CR ½; mechanical; Perception DC 20; Disable Device DC 20; Reset manual; 10’ deep pit (1d6 falling damage); DC 20 Reflex avoids; multiple targets (all targets in a 10-ft.-square area).
Page 17: Replace 6 pixies with 1 pixie. Treasure: 100 gp, 10 pp, potion (Eagle’s Splendor or Levitate), arcane scroll (Suggestion or Haste)
Quick stats for start: Longbow +8 (1d6-2 / x3), Charm Will DC 15 for 10 min.; Fly 60’ good
W11d: Ladder trap: CR 2; mechanical; Perception DC 20; Disable Device DC 20; Reset none; 1d6 electricity damage (DC 20 Reflex save half and DC 20 Reflex save to avoid falling, taking 2d6 damage.)
W11e: 2 poisoned dart traps, each one: CR 1; mechanical; Perception DC 20; Disable Device 20; Reset none; Atk +10 ranged (1d3 plus greenblood oil: Fort DC 13; 1/round for 4 rounds; Effect 1 Con damage; Cure 1 save)
W11f: Only 1 gargoyle
Page 21: W16a:
Piranha Swarm CR 2
XP 600
N Tiny animal (aquatic, swarm)
Init +7; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +10

Defense
AC 15, touch 15, flat-footed 12 (+3 Dex, +2 size)
hp 14 (4d8-4)
Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +2

Offense
Spd swim 30’
Space 10’ cube Reach 0’
Melee swarm (1d6 plus 1 bleed)
Special Attacks distraction (Fort DC 11 or be nauseated for 1 round; unable to attack, cast spells, concentrate on spells, or do anything else requiring attention; only able to take a single move action)

Statistics
Str 4, Dex 16, Con 8, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 5
Base Atk +3; CMB –; CMD –
Feats Alertness, Improved Initiative
Skills Perception +9; Racial Modifiers Swim +8

Special Abilities
Scent (Ex): A piranha swarm can smell a warm-blooded creature in the water up to 100 feet away and fresh blood in the water up to 300 feet away.

Ecology
Environment temperate or warm aquatic
Organization solitary, pair, school (3-5 swarms), or plague (6-10 swarms)
Treasure none

Piranhas are dangerous aquatic predators that travel in schools. Local cultures fear them for their ability to strip the flesh from a man in mere minutes. An average piranha is just under a foot long and weighs about one pound.

Source Book of Beasts: Monsters of the River Nations

Page 22: W16g: Add 3 weapons +1 to hidden treasure.
W16i: Trap: CR ½; mechanical; Perception DC 20; Disable Device DC 20; Reset manual; DC 20 Reflex avoids; one target (or all in a 5’ square) drops into river
W16j: Replace ferrets with weasels (Bestiary page 133). Errata: Escape Artist +3. Description: 7 or 8 inches long and slender, four-legged, with red or brown upper coats and white bellies.
W16k: Use Ghouls (that had once been hobgoblins, and which look like hobgoblins from a distance). Errata: Disease save DC 13, frequency 1/day. Treasure: 500 sp, 110 gp, 10 pp.
Falling branch trap: CR 4; mechanical; Perception DC 20; Disable Device DC 20; Reset none; Attack +15 melee (3d6); multiple targets (all in a 10-foot square)

Page 23: W17b: Omit the gems. W17c-g: Omit the necklace and saddle.
Page 24: Reaver of the Iron Ring Use stats for Taras, from Pull-Out Sheet III below. Add 30 gp worth of treasure for every hound with him.
Hounds Use stats from Page 6 above, replacing Swim with Ride.
Page 25: A, B:
Rock Baboon CR 1/2
XP 200
N Medium Animal
Init +2; Senses low-light vision, scent; Perception +7

Defense
AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 11 (+2 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 13 (2d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +1

Offense
Spd 40’, climb 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Bite +3 (1d6+3) (I think a club ought to have the same stats.)

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 4
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 15
Feats Alertness
Skills Climb +9, Perception +7; Racial Modifiers Climb +4
Languages None

Ecology
Environment Warm forests and mountains
Organization Solitary or group (10-40)
Treasure None

Rock baboons are larger versions of normal baboons. They are omnivores, but prefer meat. They do not make tools or weapons but will pick up bones or branches to use as clubs. Rock baboons form packs, each led by a dominant male.

Rock baboons are ferocious and have vicious tempers. They do not speak a true language, but use simple screams to communicate warnings and needs.

Source CleverNickname@EnWorld

Page 26: X2. Could go up to 1800 worth of treasure, but the treasure is good enough as written.
X6. Each cube has 400 gp worth of gems.
X8. 4 ingots.
X9. Stephan’s equipment includes masterwork longbow, 20 arrows, 5 arrows +1, masterwork longsword, chain shirt +1
X10. Minotaur errata: gore dmg 1d6+2. With equipment, greataxe +10/+5. Equipment: Masterwork greataxe, Potion – See Invisibility x3, 1g500, 2g100, 80 gp. Remember the attack bonus for invisibility: +2 and ignore Dex (and Dodge) bonuses to AC.
Page 27: X12: Golthar doesn’t have the Mirror Image spell, even in the original BECMI stats! The chest contains only 4340 gp, the box with the needle and thread, and the scroll (in the case).

Page 29: W18. 1 cave bear: Use stats for Grizzly Bear (Bestiary p. 31).
Reavers of the Iron Ring Use stats for Taras, from Pull-Out Sheet III below. Each carries gear plus 105 gp.
Hounds Use stats from Page 6.

Page 30:
Rucker CR 2
XP 600
Male Human Cleric 3
AL CE Medium humanoid (human)
Init -1 Dex; Perception +5

Defense
AC 17, touch 9, flat-footed 17 (-1 Dex, +6 breastplate, +2 heavy wooden shield) Remember +2 vs. good.
hp 26 (3d8+9, each level adding +2 for Con, +1for favored class)
Fort +5, Ref +0, Will +6 Remember +2 vs. good for some things.

Offense
Spd 20 ft.
Melee Masterwork Heavy Mace +4 (1d8+1)
Ranged sling +1 (1d4+1, rng 20’)
Domain Powers
Chaotic Evil Aura
Channel Negative Energy (4 times per day, 2d6, DC 16 half)
Can spontaneously cast Inflict Light Wounds, Inflict Moderate Wounds
Touch of Chaos (Sp) – can imbue target with chaos as a melee touch attack, 6 times per day. For the next round, any time the target rolls a d20, he must roll twice and take the less favorable result.
Touch of Evil (Sp) – can make creatures sickened as a melee touch attack for 1 round, 6 times a day. (Sickened: -2 on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +6 or +10 for casting on the defensive or while being grappled, can spontaneously cast Inflict spells)
2nd – Align Weapon (evil only – Domain spell), Darkness, Hold Person (DC 15)
1st – Cure Light Wounds x2, Doom, Protection from Good (Domain spell)
0th – Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Read Magic, Stabilize
Domains Chaos, Evil

Statistics
Str 12, Dex 8, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 13
Base Atk +2; CMB +3; CMD 12
Feats Alertness, Combat Casting, Improved Channel
Skills Knowledge (arcana & religion) +3, Perception +5, Spellcraft +3, Sense Motive +5
(When applying armor check penalty for other skills, remember that the armor is -3 and the shield is -1.)
Gear Masterwork heavy mace, sling, 10 bullets, masterwork breastplate, masterwork heavy wooden shield, Antitoxin x2, potion – Cure Light Wounds, Elixir of Hiding, Divine Scroll – Sound Burst, wooden unholy symbol, 58 gp, 4g50

Sydnor Use stats for Taras, from Pull-Out Sheet III below.

Sgagast
Bugbear errata: Intimidate +7, (Perception +8 is correct,) Stealth +10.
Sgagast attacks with Morningstar +6. Treasure: 21 gp, masterwork leather armor, masterwork Morningstar, Potions of Mage Armor and Cure Light Wounds.

Hounds Use stats from Page 6. For each hound, add 30 gp to the reavers’ treasure.

Faz-Plak Use goblins. Errata: short sword +2, short bow +4.

Page 31:
Aksel: Use “Charlatan” (NPC Codex p. 145). Errata: Disguise +15.

Ahiktos the merchant: Use “Successful Merchant” (NPC Codex p. 263). Errata: melee dmg 1d4-2, ranged dmg 1d4-2, Handle Animal +9.

Page 40: VE3: Ghoul errata: Disease save DC 13, frequency 1/day.
Treasure: * 500 sp, 110 gp, 10 pp. * Potion – Cure Moderate Wounds, Fox’s Cunning, Fox’s Cunning (again)

Giant Rats: Use Dire Rats.

Page 41:
Krasgat, the Gnoll Shaman CR 3
XP 800
Gnoll Cleric 3
CE Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +6

Defense
AC 16, touch 9, flat-footed 16 (+4 armor, +2 shield, +1 natural, -1 Dex)
hp 31 (5d8+5)
Fort +6, Ref +0, Will +7

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Club +5 (1d8+1, crit x2)
Ranged Sling +3 (1d4+1, rng 50’, crit x2) or club (1d8+1, rng 10’, crit x2)
Domain Powers
Chaotic Evil Aura
Channel Negative Energy (7 times per day, 2d6, DC 15 half)
Can spontaneously cast Inflict Light Wounds, Inflict Moderate Wounds
Touch of Chaos (Sp) – can imbue target with chaos as a melee touch attack, 7 times per day. For the next round, any time the target rolls a d20, he must roll twice and take the less favorable result.
Touch of Evil (Sp) – can make creatures sickened as a melee touch attack for 1 round, 7 times a day. (Sickened: -2 on attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; concentration +7 or +11 for casting on the defensive or while being grappled, can spontaneously cast Inflict spells)
2nd – Align Weapon (evil only – Domain spell), Hold Person x2 (DC 16)
1st – Bane, Cause Fear (DC 15), Darkness, Protection from Good (Domain spell)
0th – Detect Magic, Purify Food and Drink, Read Magic, Stabilize
Domains Chaos, Evil

Statistics
Str 12, Dex 9, Con 11, Int 9, Wis 18, Cha 15
Base Atk +3; CMB +4; CMD 13
Feats Combat Casting, Extra Channel, Weapon focus (club)
Skills Perception +6, Spellcraft +5; (For other skills, remember -2 armor check penalty with shield)
Gear Spiked club (made from a goblin skull embedded with iron spikes); masterwork sling, 10 bullets, studded leather +1, heavy wooden shield, holy symbol (bone rattle made from an elf skull), elf-skin pouch containing 4 colored stones used for divinations, a stone sacrificial knife, a ball of string, a stoppered skull containing a potion of Cure Light Wounds, 129 sp, 24 gp, 3g10, 1g50.

Gragszt (gnoll chieftian) CR 3
XP 800
Gnoll Ranger 2
CE Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +8

Defense
AC 17, touch 10, flat-footed 17 (+4 armor, +1 natural, +2 shield if not using spear nor bow)
hp 32 (2d8 + 2d10 +8)
Fort +8, Ref +3, Will +1

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee battleaxe +8 (1d8+4, crit x3) or spear +7 (1d8+5, crit x3) add +2 atk + dmg vs. humans
Ranged longbow +3 (1d8, rng 100’, crit x3) or spear +5 (1d8+4, crit x3, 20’) add +2 atk + dmg vs. humans, add +1 atk within 30 feet

Statistics
Str 18, Dex 11, Con 15, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +3; CMB +7; CMD 17
Feats Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)
Skills Handle Animal +4, Perception +8, Ride +5, Stealth +5, Survival +6 (add. +1 to follow tracks), Swim +9
(additional +2 on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival against humans)
Gear studded leather armor +1, heavy wooden shield, battleaxe, longbow with 20 arrows

Gnoll Leader or Bodyguard CR 2
XP 600
Gnoll Ranger 1
CE Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +7

Defense
AC 15, touch 10, flat-footed 15 (+2 armor, +1 natural, +2 shield if not using spear nor bow)
hp 26 (2d8 + 1d10 +6)
Fort +7, Ref +2, Will +1

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee battleaxe +6 (1d8+3, crit x3) or spear +5 (1d8+4, crit x3) add +2 atk + dmg vs. humans
Ranged longbow +2 (1d8, rng 100’, crit x3) or spear +3 (1d8+3, crit x3, 20’) add +2 atk + dmg vs. humans

Statistics
Str 17, Dex 11, Con 15, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 9
Base Atk +2; CMB +5; CMD 15
Feats Power Attack, Weapon Focus (battleaxe)
Skills Handle Animal +3, Perception +7, Ride +4, Stealth +4, Survival +5 (add. +1 to follow tracks), Swim +7
(additional +2 on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival against humans)
Gear leather armor, heavy wooden shield, battleaxe, longbow with 20 arrows, other treasure

* 210 gp, 28 pp * 5g50, 2g100, 1g250

Ordinary Gnoll CR 1
XP 400
CE Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +2

Defense
AC 13, touch 10, flat-footed 13 (+2 armor, +1 natural, +2 shield if not using spear nor bow)
hp 11 (2d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee spear +3 (1d8+3, crit x3) or battleaxe -1 (1d8+2, crit x3)
Ranged spear +1 (1d8+2 , crit x3, 20’) or longbow -3 (1d8, rng 100’, crit x3)

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 11, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 13
Feats Power Attack
Skills Perception +2
Gear leather armor, heavy wooden shield, battleaxe, longbow with 20 arrows, other treasure

* 500 sp, 100 gp, 5 pp * 50 gp, 2g50, 1g100 * 50 sp, 21 gp, 1 potion (below), 1 scroll (below)

Potion: 1. Jump 2. Mage Armor 3. Oil – Magic Weapon 4. Oil – Magic Weapon 5. Protection From Chaos
Scroll: 1. (D) Animal Messenger 2. (A) False Life 3. (D) Fog Cloud 4. (A) Spider Climb 5. (A) Scorching Ray

A lone ogre might have 50 gp, 2g25, 1g50, and 1g250. Errata: Perception +5.

Page 42: V1: Statues are CR 4 metal animated objects. Replace wand of polymorphing with wand of Alter Self.
Page 43: V4:
Large Stone Statue CR 5
XP 1600
N Large construct
Init -1; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception -5

Defense
AC 15, touch 8, flat-footed 15 (-1 Dex, +7 natural, -1 size)
hp 52 (4d10+30 size)
Fort +1, Ref +0, Will -4
Defensive Abilities hardness 8; Immune construct traits

Offense
Spd 30 ft.
Space 10’ Reach 10’
Melee slam +9 (1d6+9)

Statistics
Str 22, Dex 8, Con –, Int –, Wis 1, Cha 1
Base Atk +4; CMB +11; CMD 20

Ravens See Bestiary p. 133. Errata: Fly +6

Page 48:
Hutaakan racial notes

Hutaakans get +2 Dex, +2 Wis, and -2 Str. Hutaakans have Scent (4 RP), low-light vision (1 RP), a +1 natural armor bonus (2 RP), and a +2 bonus to Stealth checks (2 RP). Though technically not related to gnolls, they are similar enough to be considered gnolls for the purpose of gaming mechanics, such as a ranger’s favored enemy bonus.

Hutaakan Minor Priest CR 1
XP 400
Hutaakan Cleric 2
N Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +2; Senses Low-light vision, Scent, Perception +3

Defense
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+2 Dex, +3 armor, +1 natural)
hp 16 (2d8 + 2 Con +2 favored class)
Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +7

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Masterwork heavy mace +1 (dmg 1d8-1, crit x2)
Ranged Sling +3 (dmg 1d4-1, rng 50’, crit x2)
Domain Powers
Channel Positive Energy (1d6, DC 13 half, 5 times per day)
Can spontaneously cast Cure Light Wounds
Lore Keeper (Sp) A priest can touch a creature to learn about its abilities and weaknesses. With a successful touch attack, the priest gains information as if (s)he made the appropriate Knowledge skill check with a result equal to 20.
Resistant Touch (Sp) 6x/day A priest can touch an ally as a standard action, giving him a +1 bonus to saving throws for 1 minute. The priest gets a -1 penalty to saving throws during that time.
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 2nd; concentration +5)
1st – Sanctuary (Domain) and three of the following: Cause Fear (DC 14), Detect Undead, Hide from Undead, Magic Stone, Magic Weapon, Summon Monster I
0th – Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Stabilize
Domains Knowledge, Protection

Statistics
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 17, Cha 14
Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 12
Feats Scribe Scroll
Skills Knowledge (pick one) +3, Stealth +5 (includes +2 racial)
Gear Masterwork heavy mace, sling, 10 bullets, masterwork studded leather armor, 3 divine scrolls (with typical 1st-level spells), holy symbol (1g100), plus a worn 1g100.

Hutaakan Warrior CR 1/3
XP 135
Hutaakan Warrior 1
N Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +1; Senses Low-light vision, Scent, Perception +1

Defense
AC 17, touch 11, flat-footed 16 (+3 armor, +2 shield, +1 Dex, +1 natural)
hp 6 (1d10 + 1 favored class)
Fort +2, Ref +1, Will +1

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee longsword +2 (dmg 1d8, crit 19) or spear +1 (dmg 1d8, crit x3)
Ranged sling +2 (dmg 1d4, rng 50’, crit x2) or spear +2 (dmg 1d8, rng 20’, crit x3)

Statistics
Str 10, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 12
Feats Weapon focus (longsword)
Skills Climb +4 (+2 with shield), Stealth +4 (+2 with shield)
Gear Longsword, spear, sling, 10 bullets, mstrwrk studded leather armor, heavy wooden shield, 1g50 (worn), 10 gp.

Traldar Warriors CR 1/3
XP 135
Traldar Warriors 1
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1 (+1 Dex); Senses Perception +0

Defense
AC 16, without shield 14, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+3 armor, +2 shield, +1 Dex)
hp 5 (1d8+1)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee Spear (if no shield) +3 (dmg 1d8+1, crit x3) or handaxe +1 (dmg 1d6+1, crit x3)
Ranged Spear (if no shield) +2 (dmg 1d8+1, crit x3, rng 20’)

Statistics
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +1; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Skill Focus (Ride), Weapon focus (Spear)
Skills Climb +5 (+3 with shield), Ride +8 (+6 with shield)
Gear Spear, handaxe, masterwork studded leather armor (made from lizard skin), heavy wooden shield, survival gear, treasure (like goblins on page 7)

Traldar Vocals CR 1/3
XP 135
Traldar Vocal Commoners 1
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1 (Dex); Senses Perception +0

Defense
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 (+1 Dex)
hp 4 (1d6+1)
Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee Dagger +1 (dmg 1d4+1, crit 19)
Ranged Dagger +1 (dmg 1d4+1, crit 19, rng 10’)

Statistics
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 12
Feats Skill Focus (Ride)
Skills Ride +8
SQ Shout
Gear dagger, survival gear, and either 1g250 or 25 pp

Special Abilities
Shout (Ex): Vocals can shout very loudly, projecting most of the sound produced forwards within a 90-degree cone. Their voices can be clearly heard up to 5 miles away in the direction of the shout, although the sound carries no further than a normal human shout in any other direction. The special ability can also be used to attack, however, and any character caught within the cone of a vocal’s shout at close range may suffer the following effects:

- Range 20-30 feet: Make a Fort save (DC 12) or be stunned for 1 round. A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses its Dex bonus to AC (if any).
- Range 0-15 feet: There is no saving throw. Creatures are stunned for 1 round and take 1d2 points of sonic damage.

See the CRB p. 214 for diagrams of 15-foot and 30-foot cones.

Page 49:
HE4: 2 wights: 100 gp, Potion of Protection from Arrows, Scroll (A) of Stinking Cloud, Wand of Sleep (50 charges).

The Final Solution: Replace rod with wand of Knock (50 charges).

H3: Replace special ghoul with 4 ghasts with 2g250, 3g500. The g500s could be set into star-shaped symbols around the neck, and the 2g250s could be worn (e.g. belt buckles). Or you could replace 1g500 with the gold necklace next to the book, if you like.

Page 50: Replace rhagodessae with female giant black widows. If the PCs find the webs, they find victims with the following: 50 gp, 2g50, 1g100, 1g500

Giant Black Widow (Large) CR 3
XP 800
N Large vermin
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., tremorsense 60 ft., Perception +4

Defense
AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 13 (+2 Dex, +4 natural, -1 size)
hp 37 (5d8+15)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +1

Offense
Spd 30 ft., climb 30 ft.
Space 10 ft. Reach 5 ft.
Melee bite +6 (1d8+6 plus poison)
Special Attacks web (+4 ranged, DC 19, 5 hp)

Statistics
Str 19, Dex 15, Con 16, Int –, Wis 10, Cha 2
Base Atk +3; CMB +8; CMD 20 (32 vs. trip)
Skills Climb +20, Perception +4, Stealth +2 (+6 webs); Racial Modifiers +8 Climb, +4 Perception, +4 Stealth (+8 webs)
SQ Webs

Special Abilities
Poison (Ex): Bite – injury; save Fort DC 17; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d3 Con and staggered; cure 2 saves. Save DC is Con-based with a +2 racial bonus
Strong Webs (Ex): A black widow’s webs gain a +4 bonus to the DC to break or escape.

Ecology
Environment any land
Organization solitary, pair, or colony (3-8)
Treasure incidental

Females of this species are larger than males. Males are identical to the typical giant spider.

Source: Bestiary 2

Page 51:
H5c. 3 ghasts (as on page 49 above).
Replace trap with Burning Hands trap: CR 2; magic; Perception DC 26; Disable Device DC 26; Reset none; spell effect (burning hands, 2d4 fire damage, DC 11 Ref save half); multiple targets (all targets in a 15-ft. cone)

H5d. Wraith (Bestiary p. 281) errata: CMD 21. The corpse wears a gem-studded star of Pflarr (value: 500 gp) and has divine scrolls of Cure Serious Wounds and Remove Curse, and a potion of Levitate.

H5g. Omit the trap.

H5h. 2 wights could carry 3g500, 1g100. Mummy (Bestiary p. 210) errata: Mummy Rot frequency 1/day. Inside the sarcophagus is a jeweled orb (value 500 gp), a pearl-encrusted scepter (value 1000 gp), and a silver needle still trailing a length of golden thread.

H5i. Against the wall are displays of people, 1 Hutaakan with a morningstar +1, 1 Hutaakan with a longsword +1, 1 Traldar with a greataxe +1, a dwarf-sized breastplate +1, a light steel shield +2, and an amulet of natural armor +1.

In the center of the room is a large, ebony throne, delicately carved and inlaid with mother-of-pearl and 5 perfectly matching precious stones, each worth 250 if removed.

Hanging on the back of the throne is a beautifully engraved gold and platinum coronet, studded with sapphires (value 4000 gp).

On the seat of the throne is a dirty-looking sack, which is really a Bag of Holding (limit 250) containing 300 pp and 350 gp.

Propped against one wall is a Wand of Fly (10 charges).

Scattered around the floor are 20 gems, each worth 250.

Page 55:
Kartoeba (“Thing in the Pit”) CR 9
XP 6400
Large Aberration
Init +2 (-2 Dex, +4 feat); Senses Darkvision 60’; Perception +11

Defense
AC 13, touch 7, flat-footed 13 (-2 Dex, -1 size, +6 natural)
hp 85 (10d8 + 40)
Fort +7, Ref +1, Will +6

Offense
Spd 20 ft.
Space 10’ Reach 5’ (40’ with tentacles)
Melee tentacles +12 / +10 / +10 / +10
Special Attacks Acidic maw, frightful presence, grab

Statistics
Str 20, Dex 7, Con 18, Int 1, Wis 8, Cha 16
Base Atk +7; CMB +16; CMD 24
Feats Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Multiattack (B), Skill Focus (Stealth), Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Tentacle)
Skills 10 points among Climb +21, Escape Artist +0, Perception +11, Stealth +12, Survival +3, Swim +9; Includes racial Climb +8, Perception +8, Stealth +8.
SQ Darkvision 60’

Special Abilities
Acidic Maw (Ex): Any target held by a kartoeba's tentacle is dragged to its maw at the rate of 10 ft/round. Once at the maw, the target is coated with an acidic slime that causes 2d6 acidic damage to the target per round. In addition this acid can quickly destroy organic and metallic objects. A character's armor, shield, and any carried items take 1d6 damage from the acid per round (ignore hardness). The slime may be scraped off as a full round action if the character escapes the hold of the tentacle.

Frightful Presence (Ex): The kartoeba can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the kartoeba is spotted. Creatures within a radius of 60 feet are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the kartoeba. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 18 Cha based) remains immune to that kartoeba's frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 2d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken (-2 on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and ability checks) for 2d6 rounds.

Improved Grab (Ex): If the kartoeba hits a medium or smaller target with a tentacle, it may start a grapple as a free action, without suffering an attack of opportunity. On the next round the kartoeba drags the held victim to its maw at the rate of 10 ft/round. If the tentacle takes 8 hp of damage (AC 18), it will drop any target grabbed.

The kartoeba has a nightmarish form - a large green mound of ooze with four 40 ft long tentacles and a hideous gaping glutinous maw. The kartoeba can move silently and climb vertical surfaces, leaving only occasional smears of slime to mark its passing. The creature only moves outdoors at night, retreating by day to the darkness of its underground lair.

Page 56:
Giant Foot-Pad Lizard CR 3
XP 800
With large bulging eyes to spot prey from afar, this oversized, smooth-scaled lizard has splayed, padded feet and a toothy maw.
N Large animal
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +6

Defense
AC 14, touch 10, flat-footed 13 (+1 Dex, +4 natural, -1 size)
hp 21 (3d8+9)
Fort +7, Ref +4, Will +3

Offense
Spd 50 ft., climb 50 ft.
Space 10’ Reach 5’
Melee bite +6 (2d6+5)

Statistics
Str 21, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +2; CMB +11; CMD 22 (26 vs. trip)
Feats Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Climb)
Skills Climb +21, Perception +6; Racial Modifiers +8 Climb
SQ Expert Climber

Special Abilities
Expert Climber (Ex): A foot-pad lizard's feet allow it to climb virtually any surface, no matter how slick or sheer. In effect, foot-pad lizards are treated as constantly being under a natural version of the spell spider climb.

Source: Giant Gecko from Bestiary 3 with 1 HD added

These slender giant lizards have long, spindly legs with toes which are flattened out to form round, sticky pads. These pads, allied with the creatures’ agility and low body weight make foot-pad lizards excellent climbers. They can cope with any but the smoothest of surfaces, at any angle up to the vertical. Provided they are captured young and properly trained, foot-pad lizards can be used as mounts or pack animals. (A light load is 460 pounds or less.) However, they cannot climb slopes steeper than 60 degrees when mounted.


Pull-Out Sheet III:
Pyotr, Clan Head CR 3
XP 800
Male Human Fighter 4
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +2

Defense
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+1 Dex, +5 armor)
Hp 34 (4d10 +4 Con +4 favored class)
Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +2 (+3 vs. fear)

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Masterwork Battleaxe +8 (dmg 1d8+2, crit x3)
Ranged Masterwork Longbow +5 (dmg 1d8, crit x3, range 100 ft., take Far Shot and Point Blank Shot into account)

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +4; CMB +6; CMD 17
Feats Far Shot, Improved Initiative, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Battleaxe)
Skills Handle Animal +6, Knowledge (Nature) +2, Perception +2, Ride +8, Sense Motive +2, Stealth +2, Survival +7, Swim +7
Gear Masterwork longbow, 20 arrows, 5 arrows +1, masterwork battleaxe, chain shirt +1, Potions – Cure Light Wounds x2 and Sanctuary, 44 sp, 13 gp, 2g10, 1g50.

NOTE: Pyotr is a skilled woodsman and a veteran of numerous raids from goblins to marauding Thyatians. His combat effectiveness is from his intense bravery and desire to defend his family. Ultimately, he is a hunter not a soldier and has only a rudimentary grasp of tactics. He will defer to any PC with more experience or training in defense tactics. Otherwise, he will post lightly armored archers on top of the stone tower and armored archers or missile throwers on top of the outer buildings. He is loathe to fight the goblin raiders in melee as he knows his family has many with little combat experience.

Darya, Pyotr’s Wife Same statistics as Alfana, Taras’ Wife (See below.)

NOTE: Pyotr's wife is a warm, loving woman who runs the settlement like a drill sergeant. She will make sure the PCs are comfortable and well-fed during their stay. She will also ensure they do not abuse the homesteaders hospitality through rudeness, theft or prying. She is an avid outdoors-woman, often hunting with Pyotr during the early fall. She will insist on taking her watch on the tower, as she can use a bow.

Taras, Pyotr’s Eldest Son CR 1
XP 400
Male Human Fighter 2
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +1

Defense
AC 15, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+1 Dex, +3 armor, +1 shield)
hp 21 (2d10 +4 Con +2 favored class)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +1 (+2 vs. fear)

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Masterwork Battleaxe +6 (dmg 1d8+2, crit x3) or Dagger +4 (dmg 1d4+2, crit 19)
Ranged Shortbow +3 (dmg 1d6, crit x3, range 60 ft.) or Dagger +3 (dmg 1d4+2, crit 19, range 10 ft.)

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +2; CMB +4; CMD 15
Feats Improved Initiative, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Weapon Focus (Battle Axe)
Skills Craft (Blacksmith) +2, Handle Animal +5, Knowledge (local) +3, Ride +6 (+5 with shield), Swim +6 (+5 with shield)
Gear Masterwork Battleaxe, Dagger, Light Wooden Shield, Shortbow, Quiver of 20 Arrows, masterwork studded leather, Potion – Cure Light Wounds x2

NOTE: Taras is a young, brawny man who helps train and raise horses. He has grown up on the homestead and will defend it to his death. He is quite sullen at the destruction caused by the siege. If the raiders break through the gate, he will rush to attack unless Pyotr orders him to guard the non-combatants.

Alfana, Taras’ Wife CR 1/2
XP 200
Female Human Expert 2
NG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Perception +1

Defense
AC 13, touch 10, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor)
hp 11 (2d8 +2 favored class)
Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +3

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5 ft. Reach 5 ft.
Melee dagger +1 (1d4+1, crit 19)
Ranged shortbow +1 (1d6, crit x3) or dagger +1 (1d4+1, crit 19, rng 10’)

Statistics
Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 11
Feats Animal Affinity, Martial Weapon Proficiency (shortbow)
Skills Handle Animal +7, Ride +7, Profession (Cook) +6, Heal +6 (+8 with kit), Sense Motive +6, Knowledge (Local) +6, Survival +6, Swim +5
Gear Dagger, Masterwork studded leather, shortbow, 20 arrows, Potion of Cure Light Wounds, Healer’s Kit

NOTE: Alfana is the most skilled horse trainer at the family compound. She is also a healer and quite capable of determining any lies the PCs might tell. During combat, she knows she can help best by seeing the defenders have plenty of ammunition or have their wounds tended immediately.

Irina, Pyotr’s Daughter CR 1
XP 400
Female human cleric (of Traladara) 2
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +2; Senses Perception +3

Defense
AC 15, touch 12, flat-footed 13 (+3 armor, +2 Dex)
Hp 14 (2d8+2 favored class)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +6

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee spear +1 (dmg 1d8, crit x3)
Ranged masterwork sling +4 (dmg 1d4, crit x2, rng 50’) or spear +3 (dmg 1d8, crit x3, rng 20’)
Domain Powers
Channel Energy (1d6, DC 12 half, 4 times per day)
Can spontaneously cast Cure Light Wounds
Touch of Good (Sp) 6x/day (touch, std action, gives +1 bonus on attack rolls, skill + ability checks, saving throws)
Rebuke Death (Sp) 6x/day (touch, std action, heals 1d4+1 on creature below 0 hp)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5)
1st – Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds (Domain), Protection From Evil, Remove Fear
0th – Create Water, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light
Domains Good, Healing

Statistics
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Skill Focus (Ride, Sense Motive)
Skills Diplomacy +6, Handle Animal +5, Ride +9, Sense Motive +13, Survival +5
Gear spear, masterwork sling, 10 stones, masterwork studded leather armor, wooden holy symbol, potion of Reduce Person, scrolls: Comprehend Languages, Divine Favor

NOTES: Pyotr's middle child is a lovely young lady who is an excellent healer and pious devotee of the Church of Traladara. She keeps a cooler head than her rash brothers. During the siege, she works as a source of healing for the defenders. While armed with a spear and sling, she will only fight under the most desperate circumstances because of her mother's orders to watch over the injured.

Matvey, Pyotr’s younger son CR 1/2
XP 200
Male human rogue 1
TN Small humanoid (human child)
Init +2; Senses Perception +4 (+5 for traps)

Defense
AC 16, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +2 Dex, +1 size)
Hp 10 (1d8 + 1 Con +1 favored class)
Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +0

Offense
Spd 20’
Space 2 ½ ft. Reach0 ft.
Melee dagger +0 (dmg 1d3-1, crit 19)
Ranged sling +3 (dmg 1d3-1, crit x2, rng 50’) or dagger +3 (dmg 1d3-1, crit 19, rng 10’)
Special Attacks Sneak Attack +1d6

Statistics
Str 8, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 14
Base Atk +0; CMB -2; CMD 10
Feats Dodge, Stealthy
Skills Acrobatics +6, Climb +3, Diplomacy +6, Disable Device +7, Escape Artist +8, Handle Animal +3, Knowledge (local) +6, Perception +4 (+5 for traps), Ride +3, Stealth +12, Swim +3
Gear dagger, sling, bullets, masterwork studded leather (once owned by a goblin), Potion of Cure Light Wounds

Note: Matvey is a rogue by virtue of his curiosity and natural sneakiness. His sneak attack comes from the surprise any foe would feel being injured by a desperate child.

Kuzma, Pyotr’s Mother CR 3
XP 800
Female human Cleric (of Traladara) 4
LG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Perception +4

Defense
AC (if armor worn) 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (armor +6)
Hp 21 (4d8 -4 Con +4 favored class)
Fort +3, Ref +1, Will +8

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee masterwork light mace +3 (dmg 1d6-1, crit x2)
Ranged masterwork sling +4 (dmg 1d4-1, crit x2, rng 50’)
Domain Powers
Channel Energy (2d6, DC 14 half, 5 times per day)
Lore Keeper (see Knowledge domain)
Can spontaneously cast Cure Light Wounds
Rebuke Death (Sp) 7x/day (touch, std action, heals 1d4+2 on creature below 0 hp)
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 4th; concentration +8)
2nd – Bless, Bull’s Strength, Cure Moderate Wounds (domain), Delay Poison
1st – Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds (Domain), Magic Stone, Protection From Evil, Sanctuary
0th – Create Water, Detect Poison, Guidance, Purify Food and Drink
Domains Healing, Knowledge

Statistics
Str 8, Dex 11, Con 9, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 14
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 12
Feats Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Heal)
Skills Heal +16, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +6, Knowledge (religion) +9, Sense Motive +11
Gear Masterwork light mace, masterwork sling, bullets, masterwork breastplate (seldom worn), healer’s kit, holy symbol, scrolls of Bless, Cure Light Wounds and Cure Moderate Wounds, and any other 1st-level scrolls or potions at GM’s discretion.

NOTES: Kuzma is a tough, keen-eyed grandmother. She is a wonderful counselor and a patient listener. She treats good-hearted PCs as favored nieces or nephews. She is too old to be an effective combatant but is the primary source of healing in the homestead.

Pull-Out Sheet IV:
Masha, Hakos’ Widow CR 1/2
XP 200
Female Human Commoner 2
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +0

Defense
AC 11, touch 11, flat-footed 10 (Dex +1)
Hp 7 (2d6)
Fort -1, Ref +1, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 30’ Reach 30’
Melee unarmed strike -4 (1d3 nonlethal)
Ranged Sling +2 (dmg 1d4-1)

Statistics
Str 9, Dex 12, Con 9, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 14
Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 11
Feats Skill Focus (Perform [sing]), Skill Focus (Ride)
Skills Perform (sing) +7, Perform (string instruments) +4 (+6 with masterwork balalaika), Ride +9
Gear Masterwork balalaika, sling, 20 bullets

Stellios, Servant CR 1/2
XP 200
Male Human Commoner
NG Medium humanoid (human)
Init -1; Senses Perception +0

Defense
AC 9, touch 9, flat-footed 9 (-1 Dex)
hp 11 (2d6+4)
Fort +1, Ref -1, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Dagger +1 (dmg 1d4, crit 19)
Ranged Dagger +0 (dmg 1d4, crit 19, rng 10’)

Statistics
Str 10, Dex 9, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 11, Cha 9
Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 9
Feats Skill Focus (Appraise), Skill Focus (Knowledge [local])
Skills Appraise +6, Knowledge (local) +6, Profession (cook) +5, Profession (servant) +5
Gear Dagger

NOTES: Stellios is a great source of local lore and legends. He can give the PCs hints for summoning Loshad.

Stephan CR 4
XP 1200
Male Human Fighter 5
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +2

Defense
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+1 Dex, +5 armor)
hp 42 (5d10 +5 Con +5 favored class)
Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +2 (+3 vs. fear)

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Masterwork Longsword +10 (dmg 1d8+5, crit 19)
Ranged Masterwork Longbow +7 (dmg 1d8, crit x3, range 100 ft., take Far Shot and Point Blank Shot into account)
Special Attacks Weapon training (heavy blades) +1

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +5; CMB +7; CMD 18
Feats Far Shot, Improved Initiative, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Weapon Specialization (Longsword)
Skills Handle Animal +7, Knowledge (Nature) +2, Perception +2, Ride +9, Sense Motive +2, Stealth +2, Survival +8, Swim +8.
Gear Masterwork longbow, 20 arrows, 5 arrows +1, masterwork longsword, chain shirt +1. At home: Potions – Cure Light Wounds x2, Cure Moderate Wounds x3, Sanctuary, 44 sp, 13 gp, 2g10, 4g50.

Pull-Out Sheet V:
Golthar CR 5
XP 1600
Male Human Enchanter 6
NE Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +2 (Dex); Senses Perception +1

Defense
AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 11 (+2 Dex, +1 armor)
hp 41 (6d6 + 6 Con +6 feat +6 favored class)
Fort +3, Ref +4, Will +6

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Dagger +5 (dmg 1d4-1, crit 19)
Ranged Wand of Lightning Bolt (total rng 120’, dmg 5d6, ref save half) or dagger +5 (dmg 1d4-1, crit 19, rng 10’)
Spells Known CL 6th; concentration +10; Can cast any one spell from book per day (arcane bond)
3rd – Deep Slumber (DC 19), Fly x2, Hold Person (DC 19)
2nd – Hideous Laughter (DC 18), Levitate, See Invisibility x2, Web (DC 16)
1st – Comprehend Languages, Magic Missile x2, Shield, Sleep (DC 17)
0th – Daze (DC 16), Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic
In Spellbook all of the above, plus:
3rd – none
2nd – Knock
1st – Charm Person (DC 17), Detect Secret Doors, Identify, Mage Armor
0th – all
Special Attack Dazing Touch (Sp) Duration 1 round; melee touch attack; target <= 6 HD; 7 times per day
SQ Opposition Schools: Illusion and Necromancy

Statistics
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 10
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats Brew Potion, Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Toughness, Weapon Finesse
Skills Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Fly +11, Intimidate +9, Profession (merchant) +10, Stealth +8, Survival +7
Gear Wand of Lightning Bolt (CL 5 w/10 charges), 4 daggers, Bracers of Armor +1, arcane scroll of Eagle’s Splendor, Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds, ring (arcane bond), spellbook, mundane gear, 5g50

Karllag CR 6
XP 2400
Male Human Wizard 7
NE Medium (5’6” 130 lbs.) humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Perception +2

Defense
AC 12, touch 10, flat-footed 12 (Bracers of Armor +2)
hp 41 (7d6 + 7, +7 for favored class)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +9

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee quarterstaff + 1 or -3/-7 (1d6-2 / x2)
Spells Known CL 7th; concentration +10 [+14 on defensive])
4th – Dimension Door
3rd – Fireball x2, Lightning Bolt
2nd – Flaming Sphere, Hideous Laughter, Scorching Ray, Mirror Image
1st – Comprehend Languages, Identify, Mage Armor, Magic Missile x2
0th – Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Light, Read Magic
In Spellbook all the above, plus:
4th – Enervation
3rd – Tongues
2nd – Detect thoughts
1st – Color Spray, Protection from Good, Summon Monster I
0th – all

Statistics
Str 7, Dex 11, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 15, Cha 14
Base Atk +3; CMB +1; CMD 11
Feats Brew Potion, Combat Casting, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Iron Will, Scribe Scroll, Spell Penetration
Skills Craft (Alchemy) +12, Linguistics +7, Knowledge (geography) +12, Knowledge (history) +12, Knowledge (nature) +13, Spellcraft +12, Survival +9
SQ Summon Familiar
Gear Quarterstaff, Bracers of Armor +2, Ring of Invisibility, Scroll – Finger of Death, Wand – Hold Person (12 charges), letter

Source: Geolain from “Root of All Evil”, modified

Pull-Out Sheet VI:
Kforedz CR 7
XP 3200
Female Hutaakan Cleric 8
N Medium humanoid (gnoll)
Init +2 (Dex); Senses Low-light vision, Scent, Perception +4

Defense
AC 17, touch 12, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +1 natural, +2 Dex)
hp 55 (8d8 +8 Con +8 favored class)
Fort +8, Ref +5, Will +11

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Heavy mace +7/+2 (dmg 1d8, crit x2)
Ranged Sling +9/+3 (dmg 1d4-1, rng 50’, crit x2)
Domain Powers
Channel Positive Energy (4d6, DC 16 half, 5 times per day)
Can spontaneously cast Cure Light Wounds
Lore Keeper (Sp) Kforedz can touch a creature to learn about its abilities and weaknesses. With a successful touch attack, she gains information as if she made the appropriate Knowledge skill check with a result equal to 20.
Resistant Touch (Sp) 7x/day Kforedz can touch an ally as a standard action, giving him a +1 bonus to saving throws for 1 minute. Kforedz gets a -1 penalty to saving throws during that time.
Cleric Spells Prepared (CL 8th; concentration +12 [+16 on defensive or while grappled], Save DC 14 + spell level)
4th – Divination (Domain), Freedom of Movement, Restoration, Tongues
3rd – Protection from Fire (Domain), Animate Dead x2, Invisibility Purge, Remove Disease
2nd – Shield Other (Domain), Hold Person, Silence, Spiritual Weapon, Undetectable Alignment
1st – Sanctuary (Domain), Bless, Cause Fear, Detect Undead, Magic Stone, Protection from Evil
0th – Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Stabilize
Domains Knowledge, Protection

Statistics
Str 8, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 19, Cha 14
Base Atk +6/+1; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Brew Potion, Combat Casting, Scribe Scroll, Weapon Focus (heavy mace)
Skills Diplomacy +7, Knowledge (History) +4, Knowledge +4, Spellcraft +3, Stealth +5
Gear Heavy mace +1; masterwork sling; 10 bullets; studded leather armor +1; cloak of resistance +1; Scrolls (D) of Cure Serious Wounds, Remove Curse, Greater Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith; Oil of Magic Weapon; Wand of Summon Monster I (50 charges); 50 gp, 2g50, 1g100 (belt buckle), 1g500 (holy symbol)

Guri-Ben-Kaal CR 5
XP 1600
Traldar Warrior 7
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +5 (+1 Dex, +4 feat); Senses Perception +3

Defense
AC 18, without shield 16, touch 11, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +2 shield, +1 Dex)
hp 38 (7d8+7)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +1

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee Spear (if no shield) +11/+6 (dmg 1d8+4, crit x3) or handaxe +9/+4 (dmg 1d6+2, crit x3)
Ranged Spear (if no shield) +10/+5 (dmg 1d8+3, crit x3, rng 20’)

Statistics
Str 14, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +7/+2; CMB +9; CMD 20
Feats Alertness, Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Diplomacy, Ride), Weapon focus (Spear)
Skills Bluff +0, Climb +6 (+5 with shield), Diplomacy +3, Knowledge (local) +0, Perception +3, Ride +8 (+7 with shield), Sense Motive +3
Gear Spear +1, handaxe, chain shirt +1, masterwork wooden shield, potion of Cure Moderate Wounds, potion of Levitate, survival gear, 50 gp, 2g50, 1g100.

Traldar Bodyguards (4) CR 1/2
XP 200
Traldar Warriors 2
N Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +1 (+1 Dex); Senses Perception +0

Defense
AC 16, without shield 14, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+3 armor, +2 shield, +1 Dex)
hp 11 (2d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +0

Offense
Spd 30’
Melee Spear (if no shield) +4 (dmg 1d8+1, crit x3) or handaxe +2 (dmg 1d6+1, crit x3)
Ranged Spear (if no shield) +3 (dmg 1d8+1, crit x3, rng 20’)

Statistics
Str 13, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 8
Base Atk +2; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Skill Focus (Ride), Weapon focus (Spear)
Skills Climb +6 (+4 with shield), Ride +9 (+7 with shield)
Gear Spear, handaxe, masterwork studded leather armor (made from lizard skin), heavy wooden shield, survival gear, 100 sp, 50 gp, 4g10, 1g100

Pull-Out Sheet VIII:
Night encounters: bats (frequent), dire bats, Vyalia elves, beetles, goblins, orcs, shadows, wolves
Daytime encounters: boars, refugees, stirges
Either: Hobgoblins
Hobgoblin: Errata: hp 17 (1d10+7), longsword +4, longbow +3 (rng 100’); Stealth +5.

Addendum

Stephan, after promotion CR 5
XP 1600
Male Human Fighter 6
NG Medium Humanoid (Human)
Init +5; Senses Perception +2

Defense
AC 16, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+1 Dex, +5 armor)
hp 49 (6d10 +6 Con +6 favored class)
Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +3 (+5 vs. fear)

Offense
Spd 30’
Space 5’ Reach 5’
Melee Masterwork Longsword +11/+6 (dmg 1d8+5, crit 19)
Ranged Masterwork Longbow +9/+5 (dmg 1d8, crit x3, range 100 ft., take Far Shot and Point Blank Shot into account)
Special Attacks Weapon training (heavy blades) +1

Statistics
Str 15, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +6/+1; CMB +8; CMD 19
Feats Far Shot, Improved Initiative, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus (Longsword), Weapon Focus (Longbow), Weapon Specialization (Longsword)
Skills Handle Animal +8, Knowledge (Nature) +2, Perception +2, Ride +10, Sense Motive +2, Stealth +2, Survival +9, Swim +9.
Gear Masterwork longbow, 20 arrows, 5 arrows +1, masterwork longsword, chain shirt +1. At home: Potions – Cure Light Wounds x2, Cure Moderate Wounds x3, Sanctuary, 44 sp, 13 gp, 2g10, 4g50.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

Never actually played 3.0, as I only got into the game after 3.5 was released. I heard that for every fix, there was something else broken.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Never actually played 3.0, as I only got into the game after 3.5 was released. I heard that for every fix, there was something else broken.

This is true in everything except psionics.

3.0 Psionics was a fascinating, beautifully quirky idea that was awful to play in anything than an all-psionics party, and gruelingly painful to play in an all-psionics party.

3.5 Psionics was excellent in pretty much all the ways, for a d20 system.

It's a fascinating dichotomy, and when 3.5 rolled around, at first I did feel like it was a strict upgrade to 3.0, and to this day I actually do prefer 3.5 to the original... but in retrospect, I do see a number of the things that were lost in translation to the detriment of the game.

In some ways, it's similar from 3.5 to PF: there were some excellent elements to the game that have been lost in translation in the creation of PF, weakening certain aspects of gameplay.

I love PF, I love 3.5, and I love 3.0; all for different reasons and different aspects - and some elements of what I like about each of them are mutually incompatible, alas. I also enjoy other d20 derivatives, like Blue Rose and True20 (though I like the latter slightly less, in some ways, than the former).

Anyway, I've been thinking of running a modified 3.0 at some point, but... I don't know when or how. Good thread!


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In my first post in this thread, I mentioned six things about 3.0 that I like, that would make me prefer 3.0 over PFRPG (some "rectangular" monsters, no weapon size penalties, outdoor Spot DCs, simpler DR rules that didn't encourage the "golf bag" mentality, the Size-to-Dimension-and-Weight table, and level adjustment for monster PCs).

I kept hesitating to mention a seventh advantage, because it seems such a prevalent opinion on these boards that Paizo's modules are awesomesauce... but to be honest, many of my favorite modules are for 3.0. The Sunless Citadel is my all-time favorite introductory adventure. Its follow-up, The Forge of Fury, was a great dungeon crawl as well. The Speaker in Dreams is my all-time favorite urban adventure. And my all-time favorite SERIES of modules is the "Coin" trilogy by Kenzer & Company (The Root of All Evil, Forging Darkness, and Coin's End).


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There are a number of things that I preferred with the first iteration of 3rd edition over the revised version. There were also things I preferred in the revised. I thought the revised weapon tables were an improvement, myself (one thing I hate about 5th edition's weapon table is it is more like the original 3rd edition's where halflings can't use greatswords. Sure, the stats were basically a longsword, but still).

I read a long list of the changes between 3rd edition and its revised version. Some of them I liked, and a number made me shake my head in confusion as to why they made the change. I can't remember where I read it, but it was made by someone who also preferred the original to the revised.

As for the damage reduction thing, I liked some of the original. I liked monsters that you needed a +4 or higher weapon to hit, instead of just "magic". I also don't see why an adamantine weapon would harm a werewolf as well as a silvered weapon (same with a +1 steel weapon harming one the same as a silvered weapon). But I am sure I am in the minority on that part.

Of course, I also think there are greater improvements with Pathfinder over either version of 3rd edition (mostly dealing with classes and races, like the druid's companion or the ability bonuses being +2/+2/-2). I felt WotC put too much faith in the cost of a +2 Str that it needed a -2 to 2 ability scores).

If I could successfully merge 3.0, 3.5, PFRPG, 5th edition, and AD&D into a single rule system, taking (what I feel is) the good things about each of them and putting it into one, I think I would be happy.


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Aaron Bitman wrote:

In my first post in this thread, I mentioned six things about 3.0 that I like, that would make me prefer 3.0 over PFRPG (some "rectangular" monsters, no weapon size penalties, outdoor Spot DCs, simpler DR rules that didn't encourage the "golf bag" mentality, the Size-to-Dimension-and-Weight table, and level adjustment for monster PCs).

I kept hesitating to mention a seventh advantage, because it seems such a prevalent opinion on these boards that Paizo's modules are awesomesauce... but to be honest, many of my favorite modules are for 3.0. The Sunless Citadel is my all-time favorite introductory adventure. Its follow-up, The Forge of Fury, was a great dungeon crawl as well. The Speaker in Dreams is my all-time favorite urban adventure. And my all-time favorite SERIES of modules is the "Coin" trilogy by Kenzer & Company (The Root of All Evil, Forging Darkness, and Coin's End).

Firstly, thanks for the conversion! Interesting indeed!

RE: the WotC scenarios, I totally agree, and it's something I forgot to mention. Indeed the initial run of WotC adventures are seminal for the edition. The thing that strikes me most, which seems to have been lost in the later WotC productions (and third party as well) is the distribution of encounters, and the use of random encounters, per the DMG guidelines. In Sunless Citadel for example there's an unbeatable (by combat) encounter (won't spoil for those who don't own the module) and random encounters to keep the party on their toes and possibly force them to consume resources. In my experience the effect of these solves a lot of the complaints about 3e spellcasters being too strong; wizards and clerics can't simply store all their spells for the "important encounter". They can't simply "rest and recover" at their leisure; the PCs DON'T dictate the pacing of the adventure. This makes resource management very important, and makes fighter types excel since their abilities are reliable. When you look at the later development of 4e, you wonder whether someone really missed something in the design of the game (a.k.a. a solution in search of a problem.)

The unbeatable encounter in the module drives home the point that not every monster encounter should be solved with violence, and that fleeing IS an option. Looking at the encounter distribution table in the DMG we also learn that most of the encounters should be challenging, not cakewalks; so the idea of "balance", meaning that all encounters should be beatable, is NOT really part of the game. I am not sure too many people (including publishers) took these guidelines seriously; in all my games, fighter types have been regularly favoured at the table; in my last Dragonlance campaign, the fighter/knight of solamnia was definitely the most powerful character.

I only experienced spellcaster "domination" of the game at very high levels (14+) but that's not something really new, it was the same as with AD&D, and I really don't have a problem with that, it only means that the DM must design his scenarios in a different way. But that's food for a different thread, perhaps.

I didn't know about those Kenzer modules, I'll have to track them down; thanks for the hint!

Dark Archive

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I play 3.5 and miss 3.0 (mostly due to DR, cover details and those quirky 1d4+1 to stat spells). And Unearthed Arcana, with weapon groups and a couple of things more.

PFRPG has a baseline too much geared towards the upper reaches of the "high fantasy" concept; I know it can be custom-tweaked towards a more gritty play, but it's a hassle I'm not willing to undertake.
I'm getting old.


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The unbeatable encounter is in FoF, actually. And agreed, the 3.0 modules were brilliant. Sadly, they had a bad decision resulting in a singular focus on only rules books, not adventures, meaning the first eight modules is really all there is. 3.5 added a few more toward the end of the run of third edition.


golem101 wrote:


I'm getting old.

Eh :)


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Sissyl wrote:
The unbeatable encounter is in FoF, actually. And agreed, the 3.0 modules were brilliant. Sadly, they had a bad decision resulting in a singular focus on only rules books, not adventures, meaning the first eight modules is really all there is. 3.5 added a few more toward the end of the run of third edition.

You have a good point about the shifting of policy from adventures to rules. I say "shifting" because I recall the main motivation which convinced my group to move to 3e, was Peter Adkison stating that "there won't be any additional rules beyond the three core books, but only setting and adventures"; his idea was essentially to return to the early 1e days. We know that the late 1e stuff was published essentially to save TSR's bacon; and similarly, although the introduction of 3.5, (as stated by Monte Cook) was planned from the start only to fix errata, it actually became a big overhaul (and with all the subtle changes, it's difficult NOT to think they did it to get people to buy the books all over again.)

When Adkison left WotC, apparently the people who took the reins didn't quite agree with his view.


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Reading this thread has made me desire to go back through my 3rd edition books and get a feel for it. One of my favorite books for the whole of 3rd edition was written before the revision, back when WotC wasn't adverse to making softcover books: Masters of the Wild. I don't know why I love that book so much, especially since all the art is made by 1 man whose art style I absolutely loathe, but I do. It also made me love the more naturey classes of the barbarian and druid.

I think I may have to do so on my next day off. I should also really find that website that listed all the changes from original 3rd edition and the revised version.


rabindranath72 wrote:

You have a good point about the shifting of policy from adventures to rules. I say "shifting" because I recall the main motivation which convinced my group to move to 3e, was Peter Adkison stating that "there won't be any additional rules beyond the three core books, but only setting and adventures"; his idea was essentially to return to the early 1e days. We know that the late 1e stuff was published essentially to save TSR's bacon; and similarly, although the introduction of 3.5, (as stated by Monte Cook) was planned from the start only to fix errata, it actually became a big overhaul (and with all the subtle changes, it's difficult NOT to think they did it to get people to buy the books all over again.)

When Adkison left WotC, apparently the people who took the reins didn't quite agree with his view.

It's kind of been the prevailing theory since at least 2E that the system will die if they don't constantly pump out rules supplements. WotC subscribed to the theory throughout 3.5 and 4E, and Paizo still does.

5E seems to have rather conclusively proved the theory wrong, however.


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Norman Osborne wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:

You have a good point about the shifting of policy from adventures to rules. I say "shifting" because I recall the main motivation which convinced my group to move to 3e, was Peter Adkison stating that "there won't be any additional rules beyond the three core books, but only setting and adventures"; his idea was essentially to return to the early 1e days. We know that the late 1e stuff was published essentially to save TSR's bacon; and similarly, although the introduction of 3.5, (as stated by Monte Cook) was planned from the start only to fix errata, it actually became a big overhaul (and with all the subtle changes, it's difficult NOT to think they did it to get people to buy the books all over again.)

When Adkison left WotC, apparently the people who took the reins didn't quite agree with his view.

It's kind of been the prevailing theory since at least 2E that the system will die if they don't constantly pump out rules supplements. WotC subscribed to the theory throughout 3.5 and 4E, and Paizo still does.

5E seems to have rather conclusively proved the theory wrong, however.

Pathfinder gets most of its money from adventures. It seems as if 5E is trying the same thing. Paizo gives us options because we keep asking for them also, not as a prevailing strategy.


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3.0 was enjoyable, and I wish they would have carried over a few things (the "apprentice level" for 1st level multiclassing being one), but for all of the complaints that 3.5 received on balance issues 3.0 was many times worse. It was also a unmitigated pain with the number of feats and skills a character received vs. how many they might actually need.

In many ways, the more extreme changes from 3.0 to 3.5 was WotC responding to the concerns of the gaming community. Removing facing (with the resultant "square" creatures) did simplify combat (as well as the shield spell), a lot of other "fiddly bits" were streamlined, etc.

Norman Osborne wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:

You have a good point about the shifting of policy from adventures to rules. I say "shifting" because I recall the main motivation which convinced my group to move to 3e, was Peter Adkison stating that "there won't be any additional rules beyond the three core books, but only setting and adventures"; his idea was essentially to return to the early 1e days. We know that the late 1e stuff was published essentially to save TSR's bacon; and similarly, although the introduction of 3.5, (as stated by Monte Cook) was planned from the start only to fix errata, it actually became a big overhaul (and with all the subtle changes, it's difficult NOT to think they did it to get people to buy the books all over again.)

When Adkison left WotC, apparently the people who took the reins didn't quite agree with his view.

It's kind of been the prevailing theory since at least 2E that the system will die if they don't constantly pump out rules supplements. WotC subscribed to the theory throughout 3.5 and 4E, and Paizo still does.

5E seems to have rather conclusively proved the theory wrong, however.

Eh... "Rules bloat" has been an issue since at least 2nd Ed AD&D (all of the "Complete" softcovers). The last few years of 3.5 were probably one of the worst examples of this, though.

Paizo's "bread and butter" is in their adventure paths, along with the companion, module, and setting lines. Their rulebook releases are (based on the comments from the developers) mainly about printing additional/expanded systems that allow them to better write adventures and/or use concepts within Pathfinder that would otherwise be difficult or require a lot of authorial hand-waving. Also, the publication schedule in the RPG line is pretty modest; 2-3 releases per year, one of which is a Bestiary, doesn't strike me as excessive.

As far as 5E goes, it's a bit early to state that it "conclusively proved the theory wrong" (it hasn't even been 2 full years). Especially considering how few 5E releases WotC is actually publishing. It could also be considered as WotC making a token effort to keep the D&D "brand" active, but not investing a lot of resources in new product development; which could also explain why they have been re-releasing material from earlier editions.


Dragonchess Player wrote:

but for all of the complaints that 3.5 received on balance issues 3.0 was many times worse. It was also a unmitigated pain with the number of feats and skills a character received vs. how many they might actually need.

We never experienced any balance issues (but we only ever played with the core books), do you have any specific examples in mind?

Regarding the "need", we found both skills and feats enough for our needs; we actually didn't pay a lot of attention to skills; my players usually selected some skills at first level, and that was all, so they didn't bother with skill points at all since they got the maximum ranks. By the way, the starting character "templates" in the 3.0 PHB were brilliant, as they allowed starting a game very quickly.


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Adjule wrote:
If I could successfully merge 3.0, 3.5, PFRPG, 5th edition, and AD&D into a single rule system, taking (what I feel is) the good things about each of them and putting it into one, I think I would be happy.

So why can't you?

Especially if 5E is your "core" system it would be pretty easy to build in the other options.


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rabindranath72 wrote:
The unbeatable encounter in the module drives home the point that not every monster encounter should be solved with violence, and that fleeing IS an option. Looking at the encounter distribution table in the DMG we also learn that most of the encounters should be challenging, not cakewalks; so the idea of "balance", meaning that all encounters should be beatable, is NOT really part of the game.

There's a great article about encounter design in Third Edition that talks about this - including noting this very encounter - over at The Alexandrian.


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rabindranath72 wrote:

You have a good point about the shifting of policy from adventures to rules. I say "shifting" because I recall the main motivation which convinced my group to move to 3e, was Peter Adkison stating that "there won't be any additional rules beyond the three core books, but only setting and adventures"; his idea was essentially to return to the early 1e days. We know that the late 1e stuff was published essentially to save TSR's bacon; and similarly, although the introduction of 3.5, (as stated by Monte Cook) was planned from the start only to fix errata, it actually became a big overhaul (and with all the subtle changes, it's difficult NOT to think they did it to get people to buy the books all over again.)

When Adkison left WotC, apparently the people who took the reins didn't quite agree with his view.

They didn't, but Adkison and co. honestly thought that they would, as said by someone who was there at the time.


Quark Blast wrote:
Adjule wrote:
If I could successfully merge 3.0, 3.5, PFRPG, 5th edition, and AD&D into a single rule system, taking (what I feel is) the good things about each of them and putting it into one, I think I would be happy.

So why can't you?

Especially if 5E is your "core" system it would be pretty easy to build in the other options.

It would be rather tough to incorporate some things from editions prior to 5th edition, especially adding in the druid's animal companion from Pathfinder since the druid doesn't even have one. Doing so would possibly break the game in a way, unless I did it similar to the beastmaster ranger, but that's a whole other bag of worms, and for a different thread. Of course, trying to find people willing to play a homebrew system would be an excruciating process, as people see that and think bad things. Usually.


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I know at least one person offline who runs 3.0 regularly. I know a couple more forumites (not on this website) who mainly play/run 3.0. Occasionally there will also be people who come on to 3.5-specific forums (again, not on this website) and ask for help converting something from 3.5 into 3.0.

I personally have never played 3.0. The first couple systems I played were entirely homebrew, and the first 3e-based game I played was 3.5 (which is still one of my main three systems, along with GURPS and Word Mill's Mythic Roleplaying).

There are a couple 3.0 supplements that I do use at least semi-regularly (mainly the Stronghold Builder's Guide and the ELH). There are a couple more 3.0 supplements that I used to use, but now use very rarely (Savage Species and MM2, for example). I've never run or played a completely 3.0 game, though I'd be curious to try it at some point. I don't own the core rules for 3.0 myself, though...maybe I'll get them once WotC releases PDF versions and try playing 3.0 then (AFAIK, 3.0 is the only pre-5e version of D&D for which WotC is not selling the core rules in PDF form.)

As Sissyl pointed out, though, this particular website is not the best place to find other 3.0 players. It's Paizo's website, so it naturally attracts Paizo fanboys, and this website is likely to have an unusually high representation of Paizo-worshipers and out-right hostility to anyone who isn't a Paizo-fanatic. Most of the Paizo-fanatics who liked 3.0 are now playing Pathfinder.


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Alzrius wrote:


They didn't, but Adkison and co. honestly thought that they would, as said by someone who was there at the time.

Thanks for the link! That was me asking Rick Marshall the question about Peter Adkison :)


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Dragonchess Player wrote:

It was also a unmitigated pain with the number of feats and skills a character received vs. how many they might actually need.

I'd like to expand a bit on this issue to explain my position. We didn't (and still don't) have an issue with skills and feats (or lack thereof) since we saw 3e as essentially a cleanup and "logical" extension of AD&D 2e + PO material. "Skills" didn't play a big role in AD&D, they were ancillary to the classes' main focuses (except for the thief and bard obviously) so a fighter with only two skill points isn't that big a problem; and rogues and bards DO get many skill choices. So that's not dissimilar to what happens in AD&D, and we are perfectly fine with that. Analogously with feats, we see them as modularising what where either fixed class abilities, or things that were relegated to out-of-class rules in AD&D; again, no problem for us. In short, we didn't see 3e (and didn't want it to become) as a skill-based system like Rolemaster or GURPS. On a side note, we were pleasantly surprised when we discovered that skills were downplayed in 5e.


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137ben wrote:


As Sissyl pointed out, though, this particular website is not the best place to find other 3.0 players. It's Paizo's website, so it naturally attracts Paizo fanboys, and this website is likely to have an unusually high representation of Paizo-worshipers and out-right hostility to anyone who isn't a Paizo-fanatic. Most of the Paizo-fanatics who liked 3.0 are now playing Pathfinder.

Please understand I am not trying to recruit players, or engage in edition wars. Given that 3.0 is now a legacy game, I was interested in the opinions of those playing the "2nd reincarnation" of the game, or of people who uses PF material in their 3.0 games (like I tend to do.) If the post should prove offensive I'll ask the moderators to close it.


My group still runs 3.0. My friends assumed 3.5 was a cynical ploy to get them to buy the rule books again and were having none of it. Having said that they love experimenting with new classes and feats so I'm certain they are using quite a lot of 3.5 material. Personally I like to keep things simpler and concentrate on core classes (with an odd NPC level occasionally, such as my wizard who was more devout than the party clerics and took a single level in adept, or my ranger who started with a single level in aristocrat). But they put in quite a lot of house rules too so it's a bit of a mash-up. However, the core books are 3.0.


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rabindranath72 wrote:
137ben wrote:


As Sissyl pointed out, though, this particular website is not the best place to find other 3.0 players. It's Paizo's website, so it naturally attracts Paizo fanboys, and this website is likely to have an unusually high representation of Paizo-worshipers and out-right hostility to anyone who isn't a Paizo-fanatic. Most of the Paizo-fanatics who liked 3.0 are now playing Pathfinder.
Please understand I am not trying to recruit players, or engage in edition wars. Given that 3.0 is now a legacy game, I was interested in the opinions of those playing the "2nd reincarnation" of the game, or of people who uses PF material in their 3.0 games (like I tend to do.) If the post should prove offensive I'll ask the moderators to close it.

You're ok. He probably read the title and thought you were trying to recruit people.

I thought the same thing until I read your posts.

With that being said there is a recruitment area for any game system here.


My thought was merely that there is little enough 3.0 discussion here, and most who played that have probably moved on to 3.5, PF or 5th. As I said, though, 3.0 was a giant stride when it came.

One of the things about 3.0 that changed with 3.5 and have not been mentioned yet was the extra standard action for haste, allowing a wizard to throw out THREE spells per round at higher levels.


137ben wrote:
I don't own the core rules for 3.0 myself, though...maybe I'll get them once WotC releases PDF versions and try playing 3.0 then (AFAIK, 3.0 is the only pre-5e version of D&D for which WotC is not selling the core rules in PDF form.)

I wouldn't hold my breath on that. I doubt WotC will put out pdfs of those 3 books, as they are part of an unsupported version and is already updated completely with the supported version (3.5 being the "supported version"). Yes, they have pdfs of 3.0 books, but they weren't converted up to 3.5 wholesale like the 3 core books. Your best bet is to either somehow get a hardcopy of them, or find them elsewhere. I am lucky enough that my bro-in-law bought them when they came out, and gave them to me when he moved away and had a kid.


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Apologies for the long reply.

rabindranath72 wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:

but for all of the complaints that 3.5 received on balance issues 3.0 was many times worse. It was also a unmitigated pain with the number of feats and skills a character received vs. how many they might actually need.

We never experienced any balance issues (but we only ever played with the core books), do you have any specific examples in mind?

Regarding the "need", we found both skills and feats enough for our needs; we actually didn't pay a lot of attention to skills; my players usually selected some skills at first level, and that was all, so they didn't bother with skill points at all since they got the maximum ranks. By the way, the starting character "templates" in the 3.0 PHB were brilliant, as they allowed starting a game very quickly.

So, you didn't use the 3.0 "splat books" (Sword and Fist, Tome and Blood, Defenders of the Faith, Song and Silence, and Masters of the Wild)... The variance between prestige classes was at least as bad as in the 3.5 supplements; some of them were transferred into 3.5 core (arcane trickster and dragon disciple, for example), while many of the others were republished (some altered) in 3.5 supplements. Many of the "must have" feats also initially appeared in the 3.0 supplements.

As far as skill points go, take a fairly typical concept: a halfling cat-burglar (thief-acrobat, using 1st Ed Unearthed Arcana as inspiration). Starting with the standard point buy (25 points) for a consistent baseline, the ability scores are 12 Str (6 pts, -2 race), 16 Dex (6 pts, +2 race), 14 Con (6 pts), 13 Int (5 pts), 10 Wis (2 pts), 8 Cha (0 pts). As a rogue, the character gets 9 (8 + Int mod) x 4 skill points at 1st level; sounds like plenty, but to actually be good at what's necessary to match the concept, the character needs to put points in the following (both at 1st level and as levels increase):
Appraise (to know what is valuable and what isn't)
Balance
Climb
Disable Device
Gather Information (to find out which establishments are worth stealing from)
Hide
Jump
Listen
Move Silently
Open Lock
Search
Spot
Tumble
Additionally, some points in Diplomacy (for negotiating with fences), Escape Artist, Innuendo (the old "thieves' cant"), Use Magic Device, and Use Rope could be handy. Those skill points that seemed like plenty don't go very far.

It doesn't get much better with your typical bard (6 + Int mod; need points in Concentration (which was it's own skill in 3.0), Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Arcana), Perform, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device; possibly Alchemy, Appraise, and additional Knowledge skills), cleric (2 + Int mod; need points in Concentration, Knowledge (Religion), and Spellcraft; possibly Diplomacy and Heal, as well), druid (4 + Int mod; need ranks in Animal Empathy, Concentration, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Nature), Spellcraft, and Wilderness Lore; possibly Heal and Profession (Herbalist), as well), etc. Don't even get me started on monks.

Feats were sufficient (barely) if using just those listed in the Player's Handbook. Still, it was pretty common to dip in fighter (for the bonus feats at 1st and 2nd level) and ranger (to pick up Ambidexterity and Two-Weapon Fighting in light or no armor at 1st level) so that the character could afford to take other feats (item creation and metamagic for spellcasters, the mounted combat chain for a paladin, etc.); for example, the halfling rogue above would find it beneficial to dip a level in ranger, so that both Two-Weapon Fighting (with Ambidexterity) and Spring Attack are attained by 6th level (with the option to pursue Improved Disarm and/or Whirlwind Attack, although Improved Initiative and Iron Will would be more likely choices). Once you started including the additional feats from the supplements (and meeting prerequisites for prestige classes), it became a "necessity" to "plan your build" so your character wasn't "gimped."


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Adjule wrote:
137ben wrote:
I don't own the core rules for 3.0 myself, though...maybe I'll get them once WotC releases PDF versions and try playing 3.0 then (AFAIK, 3.0 is the only pre-5e version of D&D for which WotC is not selling the core rules in PDF form.)
I wouldn't hold my breath on that. I doubt WotC will put out pdfs of those 3 books, as they are part of an unsupported version and is already updated completely with the supported version (3.5 being the "supported version"). Yes, they have pdfs of 3.0 books, but they weren't converted up to 3.5 wholesale like the 3 core books. Your best bet is to either somehow get a hardcopy of them, or find them elsewhere. I am lucky enough that my bro-in-law bought them when they came out, and gave them to me when he moved away and had a kid.

Most of the "core" 3.x material (and some of the supplements) is available for free (under the Open Game License) on the d20 System Reference Document. Other than a few system mechanics (ability score generation and experience being two key ones) and some intellectual property (beholders, mind flayers, etc.), pretty much everything needed to run 3.x is still out there. I doubt that Wizards of the Coast, under present Hasbro management, would want to actually want to increase the demand for OGL material (which is just that, open content).


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Adjule wrote:
Quark Blast wrote:
Adjule wrote:
If I could successfully merge 3.0, 3.5, PFRPG, 5th edition, and AD&D into a single rule system, taking (what I feel is) the good things about each of them and putting it into one, I think I would be happy.

So why can't you?

Especially if 5E is your "core" system it would be pretty easy to build in the other options.

It would be rather tough to incorporate some things from editions prior to 5th edition, especially adding in the druid's animal companion from Pathfinder since the druid doesn't even have one. Doing so would possibly break the game in a way, unless I did it similar to the beastmaster ranger, but that's a whole other bag of worms, and for a different thread. Of course, trying to find people willing to play a homebrew system would be an excruciating process, as people see that and think bad things. Usually.

Okay, I can see that. None of my players are Munchkin/Optimizers so ideas that "break the game" get retcon'd out as quickly as they came in. All of us are Rules Lawyers but the founding law is Thou shalt have fun so bad-wrong-fun works itself out pretty quickly.

I would say I'm lucky with my group but my cousin's game (wherein I play) is mostly a new group and the game session's social atmosphere feels about the same to me.


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Dragonchess Player wrote:
Adjule wrote:
137ben wrote:
I don't own the core rules for 3.0 myself, though...maybe I'll get them once WotC releases PDF versions and try playing 3.0 then (AFAIK, 3.0 is the only pre-5e version of D&D for which WotC is not selling the core rules in PDF form.)
I wouldn't hold my breath on that. I doubt WotC will put out pdfs of those 3 books, as they are part of an unsupported version and is already updated completely with the supported version (3.5 being the "supported version"). Yes, they have pdfs of 3.0 books, but they weren't converted up to 3.5 wholesale like the 3 core books. Your best bet is to either somehow get a hardcopy of them, or find them elsewhere. I am lucky enough that my bro-in-law bought them when they came out, and gave them to me when he moved away and had a kid.
Most of the "core" 3.x material (and some of the supplements) is available for free (under the Open Game License) on the d20 System Reference Document. Other than a few system mechanics (ability score generation and experience being two key ones) and some intellectual property (beholders, mind flayers, etc.), pretty much everything needed to run 3.x is still out there. I doubt that Wizards of the Coast, under present Hasbro management, would want to actually want to increase the demand for OGL material (which is just that, open content).

I don't think the 3.0 core books are available legally as digital. That d20srd site is the 3.5 version. So, there is no Alchemy skill, or Intuit Direction skill, or anything else that was left out of the 3.5 revisions. So yes, core 3.0 is dead and buried deep, though core 3.5 will always be around until the Internet is no more. Is there a 3.0 SRD out there somewhere? Could be, but to WotC, 3.0 is a distant memory. Hell, you can't even get Tome and Blood, Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, Defenders of the Faith, or Song and Silence in pdf format as they were made obselete with Complete Adventurer, Arcane, Warrior, and Divine. Same with Psionics Handbook (3.0} and Expanded Psionics Handbook (3.5).

Anything that was 3.0 and hadn't been completely redone with 3.5 (core 3, psionics, class books mostly), is (or will be) available on the OneBookShelf websites. It makes me sad, as I hate to see previous versions of things become "extinct". So, unless there is a 3.0 SRD still floating around out there, there's no way to legally obtain those 9 books digitally. And good luck finding print versions of them as well.

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Aaron Bitman wrote:

And I remember in 2011, Stefan Hill saying he preferred 3.0 (although he may be switching to 5e now. I'm not sure).

So there is hope for 3.0.

And so Stefan Hill did ;)

I liked some of the changes, Ranger for example. But things like the change to the rules about damage reduction I really disliked. By having 'more damage' be the answer to say a werewolf it reduced, in my opinion, alternative approaches other than "Optimise DPS" as the only true way to build a PC. Also my group has never (even back in 1e) never used battle maps. 3.5 forced me to either do so or have nightmare ToM combats given how many of the combat maneuvers or feats worked in 3.5. Not saying 3.0 was blameless here, but it was more managable. So yes on the whole I liked 3.0 better than 3.5. 3.5 drove me to dig out my 2e books (core only - Options books were blah). I'm rather comfortable with monsters NOT being generated the same way as PC's, in fact I prefer it.

Then came along 5e, 2e evolved. Rather happy with 5e. Still like the initiative system of 2e, but on the whole 5e is now my go to D&D game.

S.


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Depending on the game, yes. our group; we play 3.0 and 3.5


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A couple more advantages of 3.0 come to mind.

One is price. Originally, the 3 core 3.0 books retailed for only $20 each, and many players could get away with buying only the Player's Handbook. And the default campaign setting was $10, or $28 for the more complete book, and a fine setting book it was. Even today, browsing through Amazon, I see that the 3.0 core books are being sold more cheaply by third party sellers than the core books of other editions.

Another advantage was the Monster Manual. For the aforementioned humble price, you got, as the back cover proclaimed, over 500 fearsome foes, which pretty much covered everything you needed. You didn't have to apply a template to a ghoul to get stats for ghasts, or to a horse to get a heavy horse. You didn't have to wait around for the Monster Manual 2 to get camels. The really essential stats were all there. WotC crammed lots of information in there by not insisting that every entry get its own page. It didn't have to fill up each page with a picture, as if we needed a picture of a horse or a dog or a cheetah to know what one looked like. That book was good stuff.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Adjule wrote:
Is there a 3.0 SRD out there somewhere?

Yes, there is.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Alzrius wrote:
Adjule wrote:
Is there a 3.0 SRD out there somewhere?
Yes, there is.

That... may be one of the ugliest SRDs I've ever seen.

Thank you for linking it! :D

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