Devilkiller |
I don’t use anything like Hero Lab of PC Gen (at least not yet), but tracking encumbrance in a spreadsheet is pretty simple. I do manual updates on my sheet and populate them back to the document between sessions though I could do it via phone during the sessions if I cared to. That said, the groups I play with don't generally seem to worry about potential encumbrance from carrying treasure. Once in awhile a DM will ask who is carrying certain stuff, but as often as not that’s because there’s a cursed item. The rest of the treasure seems to float around in some kind of fugue state for a few levels before going into handy haversacks and bags of holding which are rarely if ever audited.
Regarding hand use, I try to enforce those rules fairly strictly when I'm running and be conscientious of them as a player. I've seen other DMs let quite a few things slide though. In at least one game we seem to have a guy using a greatsword and shield. It is actually an animated shield, but I've never seen him use a Move action to animate it or say that it has dropped after 4 rounds. More frequently people pull out and fire a bow without dropping their melee weapon. There sometimes seems to be a fuzzy grey area around wands and potions too.
@Qaianna - Non-shuriken thrown weapons can generally be retrieved after the fight (if not during it), so I guess you'd only really need to make sure you have as many as you'd want to throw during a combat. If somebody carries 2 javelins and throws a javelin every round for 12 rounds I'd consider that at least a minor problem.
Wheldrake |
It's called minutia for a reason. Gear requires either massive handwaving or micromanagement.
It's the DM's job to parse the character's stated actions and impose the number of actions it takes to use things, to drop or sheath weapons, to draw them, to activate powers (flaming, dancing, whatever). Once the DM does this a few times, the players get the hang of it, and the Dm only needs to pay attention from time to time to make sure no shortcuts are being taken.
From looking at this thread, it appears that I'm not the only one who tends to micromanage my own equipment. To make things easier, I usually group items and include little boxes next to consumables (wand charges, torches, multiple potions, arrows, etc) so I can easily tick off things as they get used. When necessary, I recommend this to my players as the DM. It doesn't *have* to be tedious, if you take a well-organized approach to things. I mean, whenever you add an item to your inventory, you remember to note the weight, you group things by containers or places on the body, do subtotals and do a running total.
I never minmax a character to the extent of having less than 10 STR, so that helps. And soon you have magical containers, muleback cords and so on. Or you ask Mr 19-STR fighter to carry your bag of rations, oil and extra torches. He probably doesn't really need to track item weight, even without magical containers, so there's that.
Derklord |
to activate powers (flaming (...)
Should be noted that weapon enhancement like flaming are by default "always on". The activation thing for such things without duration is not to impose an action economy penalty, but so that you can for instance turn it of when you are sneaking through the darkness and don't want to run around with a big glowstick in your hand.
Lucy_Valentine |
@GM 1990 - If you want to carry heavy stuff around but then drop it when your first turn comes up in combat that's something you could probably also do within the rules rather than by hand waving them. The difference could be significant when traveling with a heavy load, when you run across traps, or when you're surprised.
It tends to the ridiculous, though. You can probably manipulate a rucksack as a move action (to take it off and drop it). But you can drop a sack as a free action because it's held in hand. So the gamey response is to have all your stuff in a sack... which makes no sense IC, because the sack is obviously much worse to carry.
I also think that enforcing encumbrance rules can enhance the value of mounts, pack animals, and vehicles (maybe like the Mech you mentioned). I happen to think that's fun, but I'd guess I'm in the minority on that.
It can be. For the right people. I am sometimes even the right people. :-) And since I tend to build for dex while wanting a light load and lots of kit, encumbrance is very important for me to watch at low levels.
I really think though that it just goes away beyond a certain point in the level and magic progression that PF has, and the players and GM need to understand that and know the game changes. That applies to other games as well - I played a larp once where some people had to worry about armour degradation and acquiring basic equipment, while others changed the fundamental nature of reality and bimbled around with magic weapons that made them better in combat than any martial. It was not a good time.
Anguish |
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So, who's remembering to keep track of the weight of the cash wealth their PCs have? Remember, coins are heavy. Those who micromanage encumbrance down to this level, I'm assuming they ask the DM for permission to exchange coin for portable items like gems, right? And deal with that those gems aren't easy to make perfect change for, right?
When does the weight of a trail ration leave you? When you eat it or some hours later? Same question for water you consume from a water skin.
All I'm getting at here is that there are varying degrees of precision in adherence to these rules. Nobody is right, nobody is wrong... as long as they're having fun. But where the line is drawn is going to depend on the group.
Devilkiller |
@Lucy_Valentine - If you have your stuff in a sack that takes up a hand, and that might impact whether the PC can have items like a weapon, shield, wand, etc ready for combat. I agree that the rules don't do a great job of detailing "how" things are carried though. For instance, strong PCs might be able to carry 5 heavy shields or a rowboat as a light load, but how exactly would they carry them?
@Anguish - I think it can be safely assumed that stuff your PC eats or drinks basically becomes part of the PC and thereafter gets handled by natural processes. As for coins, I think their weight is why the Floating Disk spell was originally invented.
Anguish |
@Anguish - I think it can be safely assumed that stuff your PC eats or drinks basically becomes part of the PC and thereafter gets handled by natural processes. As for coins, I think their weight is why the Floating Disk spell was originally invented.
The floating disk that's only hour/level?
Snowblind |
FYI, currency is a non-issue once you get the chance to exchange coins for gems. It's only really a problem when you are trying to loot a dragon hoard or something.
Gems and Jewelry
Principally used to make trinkets and adorn objects, gems may also serve as a compact form of currency, and jewelry can be an efficient way to store treasure. Gems can be found uncut or not set within jewelry. They are often used to adorn walls and statues, and can be plucked from their settings.
There are two main categories of gemstones: semi-precious and precious gems. Most types of gems are semi-precious. Only a select number of gems are considered precious and fetch incredible prices. Some gems, such as those found in mines or quarries, are found in their unworked state. In general, an unworked gemstone is worth half as much as a worked gemstone of the same type.
Gems and jewelry can be bought or sold at their total value, and are sometimes used as currency. For simplicity's sake, assume that [b]50 gems weigh 1 pound.[b]
The most expensive gems are 5000gp each. That is a whopping [b]quarter million GP[b] per pound. 4 pounds can carry the entire wealth of a level 20 character.
Devilkiller |
An hour per level would probably be enough to transport treasure out of a traditional dungeon. As I recall some of the fluff around Floating Disk was that Tenser didn't like to leave even a single copper piece of treasure behind in the dungeon.
I'd guess that WotC kept the spell in the game mostly because of its "classic" nature whereas Paizo might have kept it in mostly because it was already in there. In any event, it could potentially come in handy for various things besides hauling treasure, and I guess there could even be groups out there who track encumbrance more rigorously. If somebody wants the encumbrance rules or the Floating Disk they're there. If not then they're free to ignore them (though I wonder if that's the case in PFS)
The fact we've also got newer items like Muleback Cords implies to me that somebody in the player community still cares about encumbrance or at least somebody at Paizo thinks that somebody cares. My mythic Viking buys items like this simply so he can boast about how much he can carry, "I pick things up and put them down!"
Anguish |
FYI, currency is a non-issue once you get the chance to exchange coins for gems. It's only really a problem when you are trying to loot a dragon hoard or something.
You're assuming availability. Just because you find someone who can/will buy that +1 longsword from your party doesn't mean that the funds that result are in gems.
But really, did you write "1,157gp 5sp" on your character sheet when you sold that sword or did you write "1,157 5sp worth of gems"?
All I'm saying is that there's (probably) a level of minutia that even the most rigid book-keeper among us can't be bothered with. Again, not to try to prove anyone wrong, but just to demonstrate that different people drawing lines wherever works for them is just fine.
PK the Dragon |
I keep track of all mundane "equipment" (AKA not arrows or food) I have (though admittedly in the form of class packs usually because I'm lazy. Still, if it's not in the pack I won't use it)
As far as rations go, I generally "wing" it. By that, I mean I try to figure out how much a week's worth would cost, guesstimate how long I've been out in the wilderness, and subtract silver from my inventory depending on how long it's been since the last time I'm in town. My inventory never changes, but at least my money reflects the expenditure more or less.
Ammo I try to track the amount of ammo I have left. I take a certain amount of pride in my archers, and I consider tracking ammo to be vaguely similar to tracking rage rounds. It wouldn't feel right to not track it.
alexd1976 |
The only thing we handwave is rations, and only if someone can take ten to get enough on Survival to feed the group (we houserule that foraging DOESN'T slow you down for travel).
Encumbrance is a core rule, not an optional one. So is ammo.
It's way easier to track this stuff than it is to build a tenth level character, so not keeping track of it is cheating, IMO.
thaX |
I have a character (Repega Keeya, Sylph, PFS character 15) that bought a Donkey to carry her stuff on. Since she is a Druid (Sky Druid), some have mistakenly thought it an animal companion.
She heard the merchant, as he was shaking his head, say "Poor Little Bugger" as she was walking away from the booth. She though he was saying his name.
Now, if you find yourself playing with this character and find out she has a saucy lil' Journal in the saddle bags, remember... Don't let her catch you touching her Ass!!
wraithstrike |
The only thing we handwave is rations, and only if someone can take ten to get enough on Survival to feed the group (we houserule that foraging DOESN'T slow you down for travel).
Encumbrance is a core rule, not an optional one. So is ammo.
It's way easier to track this stuff than it is to build a tenth level character, so not keeping track of it is cheating, IMO.
I think we are assuming the GM has given permission to not track it. Now if the GM has not given permission to not track it closely then I agree it is cheating.
thorin001 |
Snowblind wrote:FYI, currency is a non-issue once you get the chance to exchange coins for gems. It's only really a problem when you are trying to loot a dragon hoard or something.You're assuming availability. Just because you find someone who can/will buy that +1 longsword from your party doesn't mean that the funds that result are in gems.
But really, did you write "1,157gp 5sp" on your character sheet when you sold that sword or did you write "1,157 5sp worth of gems"?
All I'm saying is that there's (probably) a level of minutia that even the most rigid book-keeper among us can't be bothered with. Again, not to try to prove anyone wrong, but just to demonstrate that different people drawing lines wherever works for them is just fine.
The merchant you sold the stuff to most likely wasn't hanging on to just god pieces, he almost certainly had much of it in more portable (and easily securable) form. How many modern merchants do you know tht only have ones in the cash drawer?