That's the question I'm interested in knowing the answer to. With the d20pfsrd site that has all the core books plus many expansions (Ultimate Magic, Unchained, Occult Adventures, etc.), why bother paying for the books that are there? Is there content in those books that are not OGL, and therefore not on the d20pfsrd?
I ask because I bought Ultimate Intrigue (it's not on d20pfsrd) and thought about possibly buying a few more, but I don't want to pay for what is freely available. Yes, I understand that buying freely available things helps support the creators (in this case Paizo or third-party publishers), but my money is limited and I'd like to have the most content to choose from for my games, so I'd rather buy things that are not freely available.
This is an honest question and I look forward to hearing honest answers. Thank you!
The pretty pictures (that is, the art published in the hardcopy) is never available for free. Don't be embarrassed when you have to go to your FLGS to pour through every single book on the shelves to find the pretty pictures. :)
If you want to access the content when internet access isn't available.
If you want to see the pretty pictures.
If you want to get the material before it's available on one of the sites. (UltIntrigue will be online too, I'm pretty sure, within a few weeks.)
I don't think anyone at Paizo is going to get mad at you if you use the OGL sites. Heck, they run one themselves.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot one: If you want to participate in Organized Play, you have to own the resources you use to make your character.
Oh, I forgot one: If you want to participate in Organized Play, you have to own the resources you use to make your character.
Really? hmm.. Somebody asked if you could do that in one thread. Apparently you could, if you have printouts of the PRD. I may be wrong though.
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Plenty of things are defined as Open Game Content (OGC), and can be shared as long as they follow the terms of the Open Gaming License (and by extension, the Pathfinder Compatibility License).
However, there is material that is not OGC in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game books that you will not find on those sites: our artwork, and many of the prose and advice text (the GameMastery Guide is a good example of this). Our world setting is also product identity, and except through the use of the Community Use Policy, is closed for such sites as d20pfsrd.com and the Pathfinder Reference Document.
If you want mechanics, then the freely available sites are there for that purpose. If you want world setting, adventures, and award-winning artwork, please check out the rest of the Pathfinder gaming materials available. (Of course we would love it you bought as much of our materials as your budget allows, because we like roofs over our heads and food on the table.)
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I buy the books to annoy my partner, she hates that I leave piles of books around and shakes her head in disgust as I drag 2 more books of the shelf as another character idea pops into my head.
sometimes I even put the books back.
eventually.
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Lizrd, you ask a decent question, and you've been given a few answers.
Money is a funny thing. I think there are three categories when it comes to entertainment. Not nearly enough, a decent amount, and plenty.
NOT NEARLY ENOUGH
Especially when people are young, finances leave you in the "not enough" budget. After paying for food and housing, you may have a truly tiny entertainment budget. OGL allows someone in this category to game at all, without resorting to piracy. That's cool.
A DECENT AMOUNT
Once you have a reasonable-paying job, you're going to have a moderate entertainment budget. You can't buy every darned thing you hear of, but you can pick and choose where your money goes. OGL allows for you to prioritize your purchases. It's REALLY handy to have a Core Rulebook at the gaming table, and Bestiaries, for instance. Buy the backbone of your gaming experience, and use the web to look up things you're only going to dip into. Again, that's cool.
PLENTY
Some people can buy every bloody thing, and do. Not everyone is so lucky.
Anyway, my point is, physical books, and even the digital PDFs are different tools from the PRD and d20pfsrd etc. At our table, we have lots of physical books, but not all. They're fastest to find something if you know what book it's in, and they have awesome art to show off. We also have tablets with PDFs, which are great for those books that we can't justify spending cover-price + shipping for. Finally, if we're stumped where something is, Google to the rescue, and the PRD.
So hey, buy the tools that are right for you, both in how they work, and how they fit your budget. Don't feel bad if you can't afford to buy stuff... at least you get to game.
The only thing I'd recommend... is think of the freely-available material as a compromise from a reasonable, compassionate industry. You wouldn't stand outside listening to street-performers all day without throwing money in their guitar-case simply because you can, right? Your moral compass should guide you to contribute when you can, where you can, and as much as makes sense, because you appreciate the artists. Don't not buy RPG stuff "because they were stupid enough to put it out free" (I am NOT saying you're saying that... just don't get tempted).
Hopefully I'm making some sense here.
If you want mechanics, then the freely available sites are there for that purpose. If you want world setting, adventures, and award-winning artwork, please check out the rest of the Pathfinder gaming materials available. (Of course we would love it you bought as much of our materials as your budget allows, because we like roofs over our heads and food on the table.)
Thanks! This is what I was looking for!
The only thing I'd recommend... is think of the freely-available material as a compromise from a reasonable, compassionate industry. You wouldn't stand outside listening to street-performers all day without throwing money in their guitar-case simply because you can, right? Your moral compass should guide you to contribute when you can, where you can, and as much as makes sense, because you appreciate the artists. Don't not buy RPG stuff "because they were stupid enough to put it out free" (I am NOT saying you're saying that... just don't get tempted).
Very true!
Thank you all for your answers!
If you can afford to buy the books or PDF's, then do so. It supports the development of more OGL Pathfinder content from Paizo.
It also supports the health of the RPG industry by encouraging other companies to produce OGL content for Pathfinder. The skills that are developed by those third parties can spill over into development for other RPG systems.
If people stop buying it there will be no more content to put up on free sites as Paizo will be out of business. Support the businesses you like by buying their stuff.
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Agreed. The next time you grab something for free off a web site, keep in mind that companies put time, effort and money into creating these products. Just because a web site uses the letter, if not the spirit, of the OGL to post other company's work for free doesn't mean you should just use the products without paying.
If you want to check something out first, that's fine, but if you like it enough to use it in you game, you should ABSOLUTELY buy the actual product from the company.
Besides, one day the d20pfsrd guy might decide that raising kiwi birds in Nepal is a better business than selling RPG books and pull the plug on the site.
Truly a sign of the apocalypse.
There are also several setting-specific archetypes and prestige classes which, at least on the pfsrd, have a different name, like the Dawnflower Dervish, which is called Dervish of Dawn.
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You must own content(Physical or watermarked digital) you wish to use for Pathfinder Society.
You will feel some degree of shame, and morose if your lack of support for Paizo results in the company being unable fund the development of the high quality product it delivers today.
If your funds are limited, waiting for content to be released to OGL, and only acquiring a subset of the material that you are most interested in, or focus on Core PDF + APs. The Core PDFs are aggressively priced to be accessible, and the AP content is most bang for your buck on non-OGL content.
For me, the content I most like in physical format is the Campaign Setting stuff, as I find it most conducive to reading in a chair, and I'm a proponent for dead tree format for that activity.
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I think the thing to remember is that OGL facilitates a better overall experience, it enables content creators to build on one another's work in a phenomenal way. I can't say the number of times Paizo has sites the Advanced Bestiary, and it led me to eventually acquiring the book. You the gamer are the recipient of that benefit. It greases the wheels of collaboration, so that in lieu of stepping on one another's copyright, they are patting one another on the back.
creatures from the Tome of Horrors have been in AP's. Paizo uses 3rd party stuff too.
==Aelryinth
Heh, them Tome of Horrors is probably the reason why many of the classic D&D beasties of editions past are OGL, including Orcus. ;)
I would say "you shouldn't", and you likewise shouldn't let people guilt you out of doing something completely legal. Regardless of your budget, it's not really financially responsible to purchase something you can get for free.
If you just want to support the company, buy the cool stuff that ISN'T going to be free, like the modules and APs, or setting books.
Besides, one day the d20pfsrd guy might decide that raising kiwi birds in Nepal is a better business than selling RPG books and pull the plug on the site.
That's when you move to the PRD or Archives of Nethys! Though granted the former doesn't have everything the SRD has, and the Archives update sloooooooowwwww.
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I think the other aspect is if you use what someone creates, morally you can feel obliged to support them in whatever fashion or way you find appropriate.
If you use PF stuff, it's great to have it available online for free, but if no one supports paizo, they don't have anyway to support themselves.
One way to show your support for what they make is to throw a little support towards them financially.
In my own small tiny opinion.
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I would say "you shouldn't", and you likewise shouldn't let people guilt you out of doing something completely legal. Regardless of your budget, it's not really financially responsible to purchase something you can get for free.
If you just want to support the company, buy the cool stuff that ISN'T going to be free, like the modules and APs, or setting books.
Besides, one day the d20pfsrd guy might decide that raising kiwi birds in Nepal is a better business than selling RPG books and pull the plug on the site.That's when you move to the PRD or Archives of Nethys! Though granted the former doesn't have everything the SRD has, and the Archives update sloooooooowwwww.
For pay what you can activities, like humble bundle, or charity supported voluntary pay museums, you are advocating that the moral imperative is to pay 0 because otherwise you are being fiscally irresponsible?
Who said anything about morals?
I think the other aspect is if you use what someone creates, morally you can feel obliged to support them in whatever fashion or way you find appropriate.
If you use PF stuff, it's great to have it available online for free, but if no one supports paizo, they don't have anyway to support themselves.
One way to show your support for what they make is to throw a little support towards them financially.
In my own small tiny opinion.
It's a big part of the reason I think you should buy things you like. Also, really the only way of letting any company know you like specific kinds of products and not other kinds is with your wallet. If you don't like a hardcover or AP, but you never buy them anyway, your opinion really doesn't account for much
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Who said anything about morals?
Interesting question, I suppose the answer was I did, you said it was "financially irresponsible" to voluntarily pay for something that is offered for free. I asked the question if acting irresponsibly was immoral. I also tried to highlight other voluntary pay corollaries, as a challenge to the notion that things which don't have a fixed price don't have a value.
Do I think it is immoral to use OGL content without paying for all of it? Certainly not, do I think it is immoral to use OGL content and pay for none of it, yes. But that is my opinion.
I just feel that purchasing the non-OGL content is a better deal for me, and aids the company just as much (more, really, that's where most of their revenue has always come from).
I buy a book every now and then but there's no reason I SHOULD, other than I'm impatient and want to see it a month earlier.
As for Humble Bundle, you should always beat the average. That's where the good stuff is. And it's a bit of a different scenario given it all goes to charity regardless.
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The biggest reason to buy the books, at least for me pesonally, is so that the content continues to exist.
Same thing as "why should i donate to that youtuber/twitch streamer, when I can watch everything for free just as well?"
If you like a thing you should put some money in it so whoever is making it can continue to dedicate themselves to doing so.
One of the biggest arguments AGAINST buying the books is the search features...
I buy the books I can. I PREFER reading actual books as opposed to pdfs and websites...
But it seems like the books I have... I barely end up using. Looking for a specific feat or archtype or equiptment item... when they are scattered amongst 30 different books is a pain in the butt. Even when I HAVE the books, I still end up using the websites and phone aps to find that specific spell I was after.