Vigilantes: Rich vs Poor


Rules Questions


It seems to me (and I may be reading them wrong) that many of the social skills for the vigilante seem to be geared toward them being somewhere on the upper echelons of the social ladder. What about the peasant farmer who wants to overthrow tyrannical count that rules him and his people, and THEN decides to move on to bigger fish? Is there a practical way to start out as a dirt poor hero and work your way up?


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you can easily play a poor vigilante, the renown based talents don't necessarily mean you have to be rich


I guess I'll have to study them more closely. I've had the book a couple of weeks now and still haven't been able to really sit down and dig into it.


You don't have to be rich, but I think the idea is your social identity is 'somebody' not a nobody.

Someone who no one would know anyway doesn't have nearly as much need or reason to hide. Your social identity gives you benefits of being a 'player' in the very society you are fighting against.

Your peasant farmer for example would probably just abandon his relatively useless role as a serf when he decided to rebel and become a fighter, brawler or something rather than become a vigilante.

You can of course manage to pick social talents that don't make you a 'somebody' if you really wish, so it is impossible to build what you describe, but it is kind of working against the theme of the class.


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Dave Justus wrote:

You don't have to be rich, but I think the idea is your social identity is 'somebody' not a nobody.

Someone who no one would know anyway doesn't have nearly as much need or reason to hide. Your social identity gives you benefits of being a 'player' in the very society you are fighting against.

Your peasant farmer for example would probably just abandon his relatively useless role as a serf when he decided to rebel and become a fighter, brawler or something rather than become a vigilante.

You can of course manage to pick social talents that don't make you a 'somebody' if you really wish, so it is impossible to build what you describe, but it is kind of working against the theme of the class.

Rorschach was a nobody in his social identity and it worked fairly well


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Blackvial wrote:
Dave Justus wrote:

You don't have to be rich, but I think the idea is your social identity is 'somebody' not a nobody.

Someone who no one would know anyway doesn't have nearly as much need or reason to hide. Your social identity gives you benefits of being a 'player' in the very society you are fighting against.

Your peasant farmer for example would probably just abandon his relatively useless role as a serf when he decided to rebel and become a fighter, brawler or something rather than become a vigilante.

You can of course manage to pick social talents that don't make you a 'somebody' if you really wish, so it is impossible to build what you describe, but it is kind of working against the theme of the class.

Rorschach was a nobody in his social identity and it worked fairly well

In Rorschach's case, he would have been renowned as "that crazy guy with the sign" in his social identity.


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i don't think Rorschach had the renown social talents


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I think the idea is that you have connection to the elites if you are not elite yourself. For example, perhaps your character is the poor gardener of an aristocrat or perhaps a maid/butler in the castle.


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The social identity is just someone who can blend into those higher functions, so think of servants, guards, cooks, messengers; anyone that someone of means is likely to keep around them as they move around.


Or just a really daggum "famous" freelancer who the elite utilize for your services.

Like a local blacksmith that everyone chooses to do their metalwork or something.

Fun thing is... you don't even have to be very good, or even make an actual profit. For the former, fashion trends can be driven by persuasive individuals (which you are) rather than actual good taste; for the latter, your ludicrously low prices (i.e. no real profit margin) may well be what allows your influence.

Or perhaps you do make a profit, but then semi-surreptitiously spend it all in little "perks" and "gifts" for your fellow "commoner" friends who just always love to stop and gossip...


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I don't think Vigilante gets its inspiration from modern comic books (although their are some similarities) as much as it does from characters like Zorro and the Scarlet Pimpernel.

The main difference is that most comic book heroes use their secret identity mostly just as a way to take a break, live a normal life, have (and protect) loved ones etc. Of course the two words cross from time to time, but usually the secret identity isn't a tool for fighting evil, only the heroic persona focuses on that.

For Zorro and the Scarlet Pimpernel the social identities are not just a means of hiding, but also a means of actively pursuing their crusade. The use their social connections directly, and fairly constantly to discover information that will let their vigilante personality act.


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You can be dirt poor and still have all the celebrity perks.

True story: the college I went to was in Southern California, right on the beach. So, prime territory for homeless trying to just get by. There were several long time homeless residents in particular that were well known among the student body, and that could easily find someone willing to spot them a lunch, buy them a coffee on cooler nights, and just stop and talk to them a while. They were frequently invited to the biggest parties, and sometimes would even attend, and were made to feel welcomed when they did. I'm not saying they had an easy life of course, they didn't, but the attitude people routinely greet homeless in, say, LA or SF didn't exist.

Several of the social talents could work quite well along those lines, if you wanted them too. Being well known is not synonymous with being well off.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Although many of the talents assume that the vigilante's social identity is well-known, others are either not necessarily tied to the Renown talent or completely independent.

For instance, a vigilante with a "nobody" social identity could select:

Safe House (the only limitation without Renown is that it can't be moved)
Gossip Collector (the vigilante just misses out on the increased speed in a limited area)
Many Guises
Case the Joint
Quick Change
Everyman
Immediate Change
Mockingbird or Social Grace
Any Guise
Social Grace or Mockingbird

Their social identity can eventually be literally anyone, as well as no one.


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Yes, unfortunately Muffinman cannot move his muffincart (safehouse) until he has enough renown to make it work :(.


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Tacticslion wrote:

Or just a really daggum "famous" freelancer who the elite utilize for your services.

Like a local blacksmith that everyone chooses to do their metalwork or something.

Fun thing is... you don't even have to be very good, or even make an actual profit. For the former, fashion trends can be driven by persuasive individuals (which you are) rather than actual good taste; for the latter, your ludicrously low prices (i.e. no real profit margin) may well be what allows your influence.

Or perhaps you do make a profit, but then semi-surreptitiously spend it all in little "perks" and "gifts" for your fellow "commoner" friends who just always love to stop and gossip...

This is actually a thing that was used an several old 3.5 APs - there was a smith who was actually hired by most of the rich and famous even though was a lousy smith, because he had a reputation. In this case, though, it wasn't a reputation for fashion, but rather a reputation for keeping secrets (he didn't - he was a trickster). He also ran a criminal empire. While he didn't have the vigilante class, obviously, this same principal could be used by a vigilante. Dude isn't really a "wealthy" guy in his "normal" persona - but he still is employed by and garners secrets from both said employers gossiping around a "dumb, but silent" guy and from his fellow non-nobles who did the same. Made for a great information network.

Same thing could work with a vigilante, only with heroes.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Trekkie90909 wrote:
Yes, unfortunately Muffinman cannot move his muffincart (safehouse) until he has enough renown to make it work :(.

So, he doesn't use his cart as his safehouse, but instead finds/uses a secret lair in the city's sewer system, etc. Yes, that means Muffinman may be a bit less mobile in some circumstances (although Many Guises and Everyman, along with a black marketeer's bag and a quickchange cloak, can actually reduce the need for a safehouse).

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